“Alright, this is the first time I've tried to create a new page, so bear with me. I am extremely unhappy: less than 10 minutes ago I was browsing through the “crawl_changelog.txt” file for the newest DCSS trunk version (SVN: 2946), and found that Projected Noise was just REMOVED. The portion I'm referring to is (and I quote):
“04b0d18 | elliptic | 2012-07-22 03:02:48 -0400
Remove Projected Noise. A L2 spell that lets you get the rune from Tomb:3 without seeing a single mummy there or lets you pick through the loot on a late Zig level at your leisure… the idea of the spell is neat, but it is hugely overpowered in certain places if you know how to use it (while being near-useless most of the rest of the time) and I don't see much hope of balancing it.”
This is a terrible decision! Projected Noise is much more effective than simply “shouting”, and is the only decent way of luring monsters around the Dungeon and its branches. It may make ONE or TWO branches much easier, but this isn't guaranteed (which is half the fun!) On the other hand, Jiyva IS absolutely guaranteed to make the Slime branch easy, so should he be removed? Or perhaps Lugonu, because of lessened difficulty in the Abyss? Maybe Blade Hands, since it's so much better than any other weapon at high level? Flight, Controlled Teleportation/Blink, and/or being a race with amphibious/flying abilities makes navigating Swamps, Shoals, and the Fire and Ice Hells MUCH easier. I'm trying to point out that just because certain sections of DCSS (which may or may not spawn in a given game!) are made easier for a well-prepared (or more likely just flat-out lucky) player doesn't mean you automatically kill the ability of a player to prepare themselves!
Another reason is simple utility: when I play as a Fedhasite with new-grown Okhlob plants, rather than running all over the level “shouting” my head off, it's much more useful (and much less monotonous) to just Project Noise at my Okhlobs' location. I also don't have to grind all over the level for monsters and lure them back to my killing field. So in this case PN may be relaxed, but what would YOU rather do if given the choice: a couple of seconds for casting PN or 10-15 minutes finding and running from monsters, which I usually end up needing to kill before making it back to my battlefield of choice?
There are much more serious problems with removing PN, as well. When I play as a follower of Elyvilon, well what can I say? Elliptic's reason for removing PN is that Projected Noise *can* (not necessarily *will*) help players avoid fights… which is the whole goal of Elyvilon followers, so removing PN is a kick in the stomach. If a player is avoiding fights, it could also be implied that either (A) the player doesn't need the XP, or (B) if the player DOES fight, they're dead! This game doesn't have a “reload” feature, remember? Removing Projected Noise writes off a whole dynamic that might otherwise be available to followers of Elyvilon, stealthy character builds who just aren't ready for 20 Greater Mummies and Mummy Priests to descend on their heads, and so forth… which leads into my next point.
The player actually finding a spellbook with Projected Noise is NOT guaranteed, like abilities gifted by gods and such, so it *does not follow* that we should axe the spell because it MIGHT make life easier in SPECIFIC branches of the dungeon that are NOT guaranteed to exist and IF you acquire (and use) Projected Noise BEFORE entering the branches! Moreover, using Projected Noise in no way boosts the player, damages monsters *directly*, and PN cannot in and of itself get the player ANY XP, so Elliptic's (apparent) fear of people using PN to avoid all combat is unfounded. Even followers of Elyvilon are forced to fight sometimes, right? Everyone else has to fight sooner or later simply because low-level characters get one-shotted if they don't kill SOMETHING and level up (though everyone in DCSS is always at risk of YASD's and such…) Heck, finding the Invisibility spell through potions or some item makes EVERY branch easier up to Hell/Pandemonium/Snake (they have See Invisible, you know), but I don't hear anyone griping about it! So please, restore Projected Noise and leave it alone. P-L-E-A-S-E!”
— Andy 2012-07-23 23:15
There's a big difference between making life easier and allowing you to walk over and pick up the loot/rune without seeing a single monster. This isn't just a theoretical concern – players repeatedly demonstrated that Projected Noise was a reliable way of avoiding any interaction with monsters in some of the most dangerous locations in the game. I'm one of the biggest proponents of non-killdudes strategies in Crawl, but letting players control monster movement from halfway across the level with a L2 spell was too much. — elliptic 2012-07-24 23:39
IMO it could probably still be balanced. Raise it a level or two, and more importantly, give high-intelligence monsters a decent chance (maybe 1/10) of discerning the real source of the noise. So you can use it once or twice in Tomb to draw away many of the greater mummies, but if you try to spam it, you'll eventually draw all of them towards you. -IonFrigate
The old spell Detect Creatures let high-intelligence spellcasters know the location of the player when it was cast. This was intended as a nerf, but it actually ended up being abusable as a way of luring the Zot:5 ancient liches out of the orb vault by themselves and stuff like that. Based on that I'd be very wary of anything that uses intelligence to distinguish between monsters.
Certainly if you make the spell sufficiently unreliable it will no longer be broken, but it doesn't feel to me like it would be a very good spell at that point – better to create new spells from scratch. — elliptic 2012-07-26 03:56
Hmm. Okay, I'm still really unhappy, but let's work something out. I have *never* been able to use Projected Noise to get through a level without fighting monsters: I've always had to rely on Invisibility and Controlled Blink/Teleport. Now this may be because I'm not much of a stabber: my playstyle is mainly as a spellcaster. The core of my concern is that Projected Noise is (was?) really the only way to lure monsters and control monster movement. Admittedly, I can envision really good players might be able to use PN to “cheat” their way through tight spots, but hey: first, I can use Wizmode if I want to cheat. Second (and more importantly), there was a long time I couldn't even RISK entering Tomb, so I'm not at all concerned about players finding out ways to deal with that blankety-blank Evil Curse Machine. Anyways, my main concern is that being able to lure monsters around is really neat, tactical, and just plain cool. Especially if I'm invisible and have a blowpipe with Frenzy needles… My main concern is that now, the only way to lure monsters/influence their movements is to run around “shouting”. Not only is this really dangerous and downright stupid, but it ALSO won't work against any monsters with a ranged attack: instead of getting ranged-attack-monsters to follow my juicy butt back to wherever I want them, they turn me into a pincushion (or little smoking greasy spot, in the case of mages), THEN follow me just enough to get into firing position again, providing I'm still alive. So… okay, increase Projected Noise's cost, or come up with SOME way of luring monsters. Just nuking an entire strategic option that has been available to players since the ORIGINAL Dungeon Crawl existed is sheer overkill. Yeah, I've had a *long* time to develop a love for PN, which is why I'm so… aghast, I suppose. Unlike removing Mountain Dwarves, which were redundant, there is no “similar” option for players to fall back on as a replacement for Projected Noise. The whole concept of PN was creating noise *someplace other than the player's position*, so just saying “Oh, we'll let players use shouting and everything will be okay” simply isn't so. The best approximation would be using a Scroll of Noise (which is a consumable!), casting Control Teleport (which does nothing by itself), then casting Teleport which either costs a rather high bit of mana or uses ANOTHER consumable scroll. Otherwise the player has to find, equip, and carry around items granting Teleportation and controlled teleportation, and STILL needs a Scroll of Noise. So sure, I can still lure enemies around, except for the fact that it's now too dad-gum complicated and irritating to try with ANY half-assed alternate method the programmers have left available to me, even if I had the inclination to find all the prerequisite equipment for just ONE attempt at luring enemies.
So… long and short, you don't like PN the way it is. Fine, but please do NOT make such a fundamental change to the fundamental playstyle of people like me (and an even more precious change to those players who apparently are skilled enough to get runes without combat) without making SOME effective replacement! You can make PN cost more, or we can try and come up with an alternate means of effectively luring monsters without the [sometimes absolutely frickin' impossible] game “too easy”. Don't just axe stuff: let's fix it! Look at what's come of other “Fix-rather-than-axe” scenarios: I noted that Iskenderun's Mystic Blast back-in-the-day was just a souped-up copy of Magic Dart, and the brainstorming discussion of the community here came up with Orb of Destruction AND and really kick-tail overhaul of IMB (which I now use instead of my old standby spell, Fireball!) — Andy 2012-07-25 21:43
Players lead monsters around all the time without any noise at all. It really isn't that hard. Step one: Find monster. Step two: Wait until the monster notices you (or throw a dart at it or shout). Step three: Run away to wherever you want the monster to go. This procedure works very well on nearly every monster who is no faster than you are (this is most monsters), including monsters with ranged attacks.
Alternatively, be more creative about ways of producing noise. Many spells or effects produce a ton of noise (e.g. lightning bolt), and some of them (mephitic cloud or fireball, say) can even be aimed near the edge of your sight to get some “projected” quality. These methods certainly aren't as good as Projected Noise was… but if you have to work a little bit to lure all the monsters on the level to a single location, then that's a good thing; it isn't something that should be easily accomplished by a single spell without exploring the level at all. — elliptic 2012-07-26 03:56