Looking for feedback... (tiles discussion)

[dd]

The enchant weapon 3 looks like a pencil...

Personally, I think most of the trunk icons should stay as they are. There's a few that could use clarifying, such as remove curse and other curse scrolls, maybe recharge, summon (and a few potion icons, as has already been discussed). You also have to remember that some symbols are used on more than one type of item, for example - if you change the teleport scroll icon then you have to also change the teleport wand icon, if you change the random uselessnes scroll icon then the random effects wand icon needs to be changed, and so on etc. I think it's important to maintain a consistent language of symbols accross all types of items.

[white_noise]

Old fear icon is basically evil eyes (and mouth). We just need to keep it then.
About crossed skull, I think we need to avoid any type of crossings at any cost. It always looks ugly. This is the reason I do not cross amnesia brain.
Anyway I think I'll add new icons to already created report. I'll put there all alternatives even if they are not prefered (like arrow tele/blink), maybe they will be used some day. I will not duplicate the ones from trunk though (only edited ones).

Base scrolls are here: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5962
Icons are here: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5969

[mumra]

I love the new Silence. For Noise we could have the same face but the gag off and mouth wide open as if shouting?

Old fear icon is basically evil eyes (and mouth). We just need to keep it then.

I was thinking a larger set of eyes, without the mouth. Actually a single large evil eye (imagine blood red with a yellow iris and cat-like pupils) could look awesome. The old Fear is hard to make out the detail.

About crossed skull, I think we need to avoid any type of crossings at any cost. It always looks ugly. This is the reason I do not cross amnesia brain.

I agree, the crosses look really diagrammy and don't fit in with the artful nature of most of the icons.

[mumra]

Final couple of ideas:

For Teleport, a picture of a portal.

For Blink, a picture of a closed eye.

[white_noise]

I've tried some eyes for fear. It always looks like 'night vision' or something like that, but never like 'fear'.

Good idea for noise.

But closed eyes for blink is too stretchy. Best case scenario it gonna look like 'blindness'.

[white_noise]

Good idea for noise.

Nope. Tried it. Looks weird and not noisy.

[dpeg]

What about a bell for noise?

[white_noise]

Not the worst variant, I think.
Maybe the best...

[white_noise]

I know they are not required, but I decided to make some new stairs. Not to replace existing ones, but maybe to use somewhere else (not really sure where exactly). Anyway, here they are: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6050

By the way, should I reopen the issue in this case?
Or I had to make a new one?
Or they can be found anyway?

[galehar]

Nice. We could have branch specific stairs. We do now for shoals. The ladder would fit Orc nicely, but I'm afraid players might expect that they take more time to climb.

[white_noise]

I never even thought about the time it takes to get to the other floor. I assume it's about 1 turn, enough for mobs to go after me. But I still do not know it for sure. Anyway, I personally don't think the ladder is so confusing but you can make it in fact longer to climb. Like 2 turns instead of 1. To obstruct stair-jumping in mines.

Also, here (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5633) we have already pretty nice orc stairs for entrance. Maybe ladder can be used inside the mines, or inside Shoals...

If there is any specific stairs we need, I'd be happy to make some. I may even make two sets of stairs for each branch: one for main entrance and one to use inside. Below will be list of branches and I'll try to keep it updated. But correct me if I miss something. I've seen some stairs and arches in trunk but not sure what goes where.

Spoiler: show

The Dungeon - completed
Ecumenical Temple - completed
Orcish Mines - completed
Elven Halls - completed
The Lair - completed
The Swamp - completed
The Snake Pit - completed
The Slime Pits - completed
The Shoals - completed
The Vaults - ?
The Crypt - completed
The Tomb - completed
Hall of Blades - completed
Hell - ?
The Vestibule of Hell - ?
Cocytus - ?
Gehenna - ?
Tartarus - ?
The Iron City of Dis - ?
The Realm of Zot - ?
Pandemonium - ?
The Abyss - completed

I think I'm gonna update this attachment to not spam new posts.
Please check it from time to time and state your opinions.

[white_noise]

Here's temple entrance. And an exit. Little thingy on side can be used with or without statues. They can be strictly placed on sides or use some other presets. I can make several frames of animation for flame, if needed.

[white_noise]

Main entrance and exit for the Lair. Bones are for nearby tiles. Should be scattered randomly, I guess.

Also, is there any way for me to know which floors used in each branch (except actually walk there in game)? I need it to make exits and inner stairs better fitting the floors.

[edlothiol]

I'm not sure about the skulls around the Lair entrance, considering there are practically no intelligent monsters in Lair that could have placed them there.

Also, is there any way for me to know which floors used in each branch (except actually walk there in game)? I need it to make exits and inner stairs better fitting the floors.

I'd recommend just going to the branch in wizard mode (&~ teleports you to a specific branch/level). The definitions of the branch-specific floors/walls are here.

[white_noise]

I'm not sure about the skulls around the Lair entrance, considering there are practically no intelligent monsters in Lair that could have placed them there.

I've actually thought about this. The bones lying around are work of the animals. And the ones on spikes are placed there by nagas (they can be nasty this way). Or (as long, as it's only an entrance) it can be work of any dungeon dwellers, like orcs or hobgobling, who placed this skulls on a sticks near the lair as warning message to others.
...

And here's orcish mines entrance/exit.
Entrance is edited version of existing tile.
There are pieces of dirt and ore lying around.

[galehar]

I never even thought about the time it takes to get to the other floor. I assume it's about 1 turn, enough for mobs to go after me. But I still do not know it for sure. Anyway, I personally don't think the ladder is so confusing but you can make it in fact longer to climb. Like 2 turns instead of 1. To obstruct stair-jumping in mines.

It takes 2.3 or 2.4 turn to take stairs. And it's quite important, maybe the description should say it that it takes more time than taking a step. I don't think it would be a good idea to increase the delay for Orc' ladders. You'd need to have a special feature, with a different colour in console and the gameplay advantage is really dubious. Seems more like useless complication.
If the description explains that it's sturdy and isn't longer to climb than stairs, I think it should be fine.

Here's temple entrance. And an exit. Little thingy on side can be used with or without statues. They can be strictly placed on sides or use some other presets. I can make several frames of animation for flame, if needed.

I like it, the only thing that bothers me is that the perspective for upstairs and downstairs are almost identical. It's hard to tell which is which. Flames always look better with some animation.

Main entrance and exit for the Lair. Bones are for nearby tiles.

I think skulls would be more appropriate around the crypt entrance. Lair should have plants instead. You should look at entry vaults for inspiration, that way, the entrance you're making would blend better in them too.

[white_noise]

I like it, the only thing that bothers me is that the perspective for upstairs and downstairs are almost identical. It's hard to tell which is which. Flames always look better with some animation.

It shouldn't be a problem because they never gonna be placed on one floor.

I think skulls would be more appropriate around the crypt entrance. Lair should have plants instead. You should look at entry vaults for inspiration, that way, the entrance you're making would blend better in them too.

I think my english failed me here. What do you mean by "entry vaults"? I thought there is some in-game descriptions that shows when you step on entrance cell, but there is no such thing. Not for lair at least. It's just "staircase to the Lair", no plants mentioned.

upd

About animation. Should I keep whole tile in every frame or it can be done by applying a flame frames on static tile?

Also, check out attachment in this post for updates. Elven halls branch for now.

[galehar]

I like it, the only thing that bothers me is that the perspective for upstairs and downstairs are almost identical. It's hard to tell which is which. Flames always look better with some animation.

It shouldn't be a problem because they never gonna be placed on one floor.

Sure, I'm not concerned that you would mistake one for another, I just find it strange. And a newbie might not know if they need to press < or >.

I think skulls would be more appropriate around the crypt entrance. Lair should have plants instead. You should look at entry vaults for inspiration, that way, the entrance you're making would blend better in them too.

I think my english failed me here. What do you mean by "entry vaults"? I thought there is some in-game descriptions that shows when you step on entrance cell, but there is no such thing. Not for lair at least. It's just "staircase to the Lair", no plants mentioned.

Branch entrances are often in a vault. Look in dat/des/branches/*.des and look for vaults with foo_entry in the TAGS line. If you can't read the vault syntax, you can create them in wizmode with &L then type the vault name (which you've looked up in the des file). Prefix the name with * to spawn it at your position.

About animation. Should I keep whole tile in every frame or it can be done by applying a flame frames on static tile?

Hmm, looks like we already have animated torches. If they don't fit your tile, we can add yours. So just flame frames are enough (and remove it from the static tile).

[mumra]

Regarding trapdoors/hatches: I never favoured the "all red" colouring; obviously it makes them stand out, but I think they might look nicer with more realistic colouring, so long as they are still distinct looking from normal D stairs (maybe they need a magical glow, since the in-game text implies they are magical anyway?).

Speaking of which, the plain ol' D stairs look kind of boring now held up next to all these lovely new branch stairs. They certainly should look a bit more plain than the more exotic branch stairs; but I find them a bit square, angular and grey. Maybe simply introducing a bit of irregularity; imagine roughly carved ancient stone steps, worn down by centuries of usage.

[galehar]

Regarding trapdoors/hatches: I never favoured the "all red" colouring; obviously it makes them stand out, but I think they might look nicer with more realistic colouring, so long as they are still distinct looking from normal D stairs (maybe they need a magical glow, since the in-game text implies they are magical anyway?).

Yes, they are magical. Otherwise, it's hard to explain why they are one-way.

Speaking of which, the plain ol' D stairs look kind of boring now held up next to all these lovely new branch stairs. They certainly should look a bit more plain than the more exotic branch stairs; but I find them a bit square, angular and grey. Maybe simply introducing a bit of irregularity; imagine roughly carved ancient stone steps, worn down by centuries of usage.

Good idea, but if we go that way, I think we need several similar versions, just like walls and floor. If they are all worn down exactly the same way, it would be a bit weird.

[roctavian]

I like the addition of the pickaxe to the Orcish Mines entrance quite a bit! I'm also glad you have that custom tile for Elf stairs. I plan to make new wall/floor tiles for Elf at some point in the future, and those stairs could really set the scene for the new tileset.

[XuaXua]

Had a problem and maybe it is me getting used to it, but I can not easily distinguish between the new (trunk) UP and DOWN stairs designs for Shoals. Has anyone else had this problem?

[white_noise]

Regarding trapdoors/hatches: I never favoured the "all red" colouring; obviously it makes them stand out, but I think they might look nicer with more realistic colouring, so long as they are still distinct looking from normal D stairs (maybe they need a magical glow, since the in-game text implies they are magical anyway?).

Speaking of which, the plain ol' D stairs look kind of boring now held up next to all these lovely new branch stairs. They certainly should look a bit more plain than the more exotic branch stairs; but I find them a bit square, angular and grey. Maybe simply introducing a bit of irregularity; imagine roughly carved ancient stone steps, worn down by centuries of usage.

Both are good points. I'll try some changes.

Yes, they are magical. Otherwise, it's hard to explain why they are one-way.

I personally think that they are closing by mechanism of some kind. They don't look magical and I don't really want to make them look like this. It's gonna look strange on early levels.

Good idea, but if we go that way, I think we need several similar versions, just like walls and floor. If they are all worn down exactly the same way, it would be a bit weird.

Ok. I like this idea too. But I don't guarantee you guys any major carving or other excessives though. As mumra said, this stairs need to look little boring.

I like it, the only thing that bothers me is that the perspective for upstairs and downstairs are almost identical. It's hard to tell which is which. Flames always look better with some animation.

It shouldn't be a problem because they never gonna be placed on one floor.

Sure, I'm not concerned that you would mistake one for another, I just find it strange. And a newbie might not know if they need to press < or >.

It is a problem indeed. Well, maybe not a problem, but nuisance nonetheless. Although, I've noticed that '<' is unnecessary key. We don't need it actually. As long, as all stairs/portals/shops go only one way, the only one key can be used. So every time you standing on a stair/portal/shop cell you can press the same '>' key to go up, down or in. Newbies will be thankful for one less key to remember.

I like the addition of the pickaxe to the Orcish Mines entrance quite a bit! I'm also glad you have that custom tile for Elf stairs. I plan to make new wall/floor tiles for Elf at some point in the future, and those stairs could really set the scene for the new tileset.

And I like that you like it. It's always nice to have approval from original author.

Had a problem and maybe it is me getting used to it, but I can not easily distinguish between the new (trunk) UP and DOWN stairs designs for Shoals. Has anyone else had this problem?

I don't have this exact problem. But this stairs looks strange to me. Interesting, but strange nonetheless. Didn't understand if they are made of ice or even water, but I'd prefer use of old sandy stairs in shoals. After little edit they look pretty neat there.

[white_noise]

An Idea for shops.
One tile for main building (same for every shop). It's an actual entrance to a shop.
Another for sign (different for every shop). It's a decoration, as blood splats or something. Which means that cell remains empty.

It gives us prettier shops AND big and easily recognisable signs. The thing I don't like in present shops the most. It gives some work for coders though, because this shops need at least one open tile to the right, thus can't be attached to the wall. Have no idea how hard it can be to add this restriction. Also, don't know if it worth doing so. What do you think?

[mumra]

I personally think that they are closing by mechanism of some kind. They don't look magical and I don't really want to make them look like this. It's gonna look strange on early levels.

When you take a hatch, the game actually says something like "a mysterious force pulls you upwards" so it's reasonable for them to be a little bit magical. Most mechanisms in Crawl have a little bit of magic in some way or another

An Idea for shops.
One tile for main building (same for every shop). It's an actual entrance to a shop.
Another for sign (different for every shop). It's a decoration, as blood splats or something. Which means that cell remains empty.

I really like the look of that new shop, the only problem is what happens when the shop has a wall immediately to the right ... you could overlay the tile but the 3D effect will look strange.

[jejorda2]

If we still need torment icons, what about focusing on the "halving" aspect? Perhaps show half a heart, since half your hitpoints will be gone? I don't play tiles enough to know if there is an icon for HP.

[white_noise]

When you take a hatch, the game actually says something like "a mysterious force pulls you upwards" so it's reasonable for them to be a little bit magical. Most mechanisms in Crawl have a little bit of magic in some way or another

The game can say "a hidden mechanism closes the hatch right behind you" and "a stair crumbles into dust (hehe) after you step out".

I really like the look of that new shop, the only problem is what happens when the shop has a wall immediately to the right ... you could overlay the tile but the 3D effect will look strange.

There should be restrictions in code which can prevent shops to spawn near the wall to the right. But if it's too hard to do, then we can forget about it just as easily.

If we still need torment icons, what about focusing on the "halving" aspect? Perhaps show half a heart, since half your hitpoints will be gone? I don't play tiles enough to know if there is an icon for HP.

Halving aspect is good. But exactly half a heart seems to me a bit childish. Unless we are talking about naturalistically looking heart cut in half... But this is too much, I think. And it's hardly going to be recognizable. What I think is half a face, half a skull. It can work.
...

Also. I've made dungeon stairs out of bricks. It should do the trick. They are still pretty simple, but not so boring.
One-way hatches colors has been made more natural. And they are look better now. But I'm afraid it can be misleading, especially in orcish mines, where main stairs looks pretty much the same. Any suggestions? Should I really add "mystic glow" to the hatches?

[dd]

There should be restrictions in code which can prevent shops to spawn near the wall to the right.

Ok, no. The game mechanics should not be subservient to the graphics/interface, but the other way around. Adding an arbitrary restriction to where shops can spawn just to be able to add little signs to them (which won't even show up in the console version) just isn't sensible.

Also, your shop looks kind of like a small house, maybe a tavern or inn of some kind... you have to remember that the entirety of Crawl takes place underground, and a shop should look like something that is set up in an underground dungeon.

[white_noise]

There should be restrictions in code which can prevent shops to spawn near the wall to the right.

Ok, no. The game mechanics should not be subservient to the graphics/interface, but the other way around. Adding an arbitrary restriction to where shops can spawn just to be able to add little signs to them (which won't even show up in the console version) just isn't sensible.

I am actually agree with that. It's just I am looking for ways to improve graphics and this is what I found. Changes are minor (as far, as I understand) so I suggested it. And if this changes make one version better and do not make another worse, why not to try?..

Also, your shop looks kind of like a small house, maybe a tavern or inn of some kind... you have to remember that the entirety of Crawl takes place underground, and a shop should look like something that is set up in an underground dungeon.

Yeah, but there are rivers, and trees, and hell, and every kind of weirdness in this dungeon. Why not to be little houses with tiled roofs, so the bats won't crap on its owner's head?..

[dd]

I am actually agree with that. It's just I am looking for ways to improve graphics and this is what I found. Changes are minor (as far, as I understand) so I suggested it. And if this changes make one version better and do not make another worse, why not to try?..

You need to take the 32x32 size restriction more as a challenge than a restriction. It's easy to do good looking tiles in whatever size, but when you have to fit everything in 32x32 pixels you really have to push your skills to make it look good.

Yeah, but there are rivers, and trees, and hell, and every kind of weirdness in this dungeon. Why not to be little houses with tiled roofs, so the bats won't crap on its owner's head?..

Well, there are in-game explanations for the existence of trees, rivers, etc. flimsy as those explanations might be sometimes... The dungeon is illuminated with magical light that allows trees to grow there, and so on. Anyway I don't care so much about the shop not making "sense" as such, but it doesn't seem to fit the "mood" of Crawl. When I think of dungeon shops, I think of impromptu shacks or caves set up and filled with merchandise by some kind of insane species of shopkeepers. Something that says, "I'm insane enough to go set up shop in a dangerous, monster-riddled dungeon in order to make a profit".

[mumra]

I think even if it were a good idea, it would require a lot of reworking of vaults (specifically Bazaars and V:8, but probably loads of others). Anyway dd is right that graphics shouldn't dictate arbitrary layout rules.

But the signage idea is still really cool, I wonder is there any way to make the signs smaller and fit the same concept into a single tile?

One-way hatches colors has been made more natural. And they are look better now. But I'm afraid it can be misleading, especially in orcish mines, where main stairs looks pretty much the same. Any suggestions? Should I really add "mystic glow" to the hatches?

I think a bit of glow (it doesn't need to be over-the-top) would be enough to make sure they're always recognisably different, so the player knows straight away they're special. I would suggest decorating it with some cogs and other mechanisms, but then how would a Dwarven halls entrance look?

[galehar]

You can also take shafts up when overloaded. I think their magical nature is important to the game (there might be some other specificity that I'm not remembering). I'm not saying that they have to be glowing, though, but that's a possibility.
The shop sign is pretty, but I'm not sure it's worth the restriction.

[BlackSheep]

I am actually agree with that. It's just I am looking for ways to improve graphics and this is what I found. Changes are minor (as far, as I understand) so I suggested it. And if this changes make one version better and do not make another worse, why not to try?..

You misunderstand. Forcing the dungeon to morph around shops is a major change and would worsen both tiles and console. As dd and others have said, stick to the tile size limit. It's only broken for significant reasons.

[white_noise]

Ok then. Maybe I'll fit it in 32x32 but for now I don't see how it possible.
...

And now to the other thing. Glowing hatches.
I think that red one are classy and warns about danger one-way can hold.
Blue one looks better but kinda too peacefull for the job.
Natural yellowish light is pointless but may be the best solution.
Another variant is to use red one for going down and blue for going up, but this can be overdoing.
What do you think?

[white_noise]

Alternative torment icon. Can be troubles with similarities as long, as skull represents curse (in my set at least). Maybe it need to be flipped horizontally or skull need to be little more reddish... Anyway, if it will be used with another set it's good as it is.

[white_noise]

I've traveled into crypt, before I started the stairs, and found out that it made of nice but super-contrast tiles. Here's a little edit. I believe it is improvement.

[dd]

The walls are way too similar colour to the floors. There needs to be contrast between the walls and floors to make it easy to navigate.

[white_noise]

Hmm... I don't see it really. I think walls are much brighter than floors and with texture diference it creates plenty if contrast. But it can be changed little more I guess. I don't want to change color much, because similar tint creates more consistent picture as whole.

[dd]

I don't want to change color much, because similar tint creates more consistent picture as whole.

That's not really how most of the Crawl tilesets are, nor is it really a priority. Check out the tiles & floors of pretty much any branch, and you'll see the floors and walls are distinct from each other. There's a reason for this - it's horrible to try to make out the map when the floor and walls look similar.

In most cases, the walls should be clearly brighter than the floors, so that they stand out properly. Think of the floor tiles as the "background", against which the foreground objects (player, monsters, tiles, walls) need to stand out. There needs to be a good contrast between foreground and background.

[white_noise]

That's not really how most of the Crawl tilesets are, nor is it really a priority. Check out the tiles & floors of pretty much any branch, and you'll see the floors and walls are distinct from each other. There's a reason for this - it's horrible to try to make out the map when the floor and walls look similar.

In most cases, the walls should be clearly brighter than the floors, so that they stand out properly. Think of the floor tiles as the "background", against which the foreground objects (player, monsters, tiles, walls) need to stand out. There needs to be a good contrast between foreground and background.

I'm agree with that. But we obviously disagree about level of contrast which qualifies as "good".

[TehDruid]

I love your Crypt white_noise, it feels smooth and has the mood that Crypt should have. Not noticeably hard to make out the layout, imho...

[galehar]

And now to the other thing. Glowing hatches.

I think the red one is fine. I don't think they are made of actual stairs, since the up one is just a spring loaded hatch in the ceiling and a mysterious force pulls you upward. But I don't see any better way to display them, especially the up one.

Alternative torment icon.

I still like the deformed face much better.

I've traveled into crypt, before I started the stairs, and found out that it made of nice but super-contrast tiles. Here's a little edit. I believe it is improvement.

Yeah, it does look much better. I don't know if there's enough floor/wall contrast, I guess I'll have to test them in-game.

[white_noise]

Crypt tiles are here: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6073
...

About the skulls/bones as decoration. I feel like they can be scattered around many places. To represent the danger or as neutral decorations. They can be used for most "wild" branch entrances. Lair, slime pits, swamp and such. They need to be used with unique branch decorations and in much lesser numbers (like a skull and couple of bones), but basically every branch is dangerous place and some remains of unfortunate adventurers may be appropriate. If this idea in any way appealing, it can be developed futher. There can be more variations of remains from little bones to full skeletons sitting next to walls or lying on the ground.
...

Not sure what decorations can be used with the vaults. Also don't know how to differentiate up and down going stairs. For now there is two variants: flipped stairs or ladder for up-going one. Tell me what you think.

[white_noise]

I think I will not make hellish portals. We have a nice ones by roctavian already and I'd like to visit all late-game locations by myself and not with wizard teleportation. So, as soon as we decide something about 'vaults', I'll upload this set to mantis. Tell me if I missed some minor branches/vaults that might need entrances. I've got my list from Wiki but I think there are locations not included in it.

[white_noise]

Here's final variant: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6077
Well, not THE final ofcourse. I predict there going to be plenty of editing, after (if) it hits the game. But the main job is done.

[mumra]

Here's final variant: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6077
Well, not THE final ofcourse. I predict there going to be plenty of editing, after (if) it hits the game. But the main job is done.

They look amazing! Sure, anything can be improved on, but that is a really nice set.

Just one minor point: Somehow I can't see that ladder surviving long in the Slime Pits without completely dissolving Also I think the slimes sometimes move between levels and they wouldn't be able to climb ladders ... I am imagining some sort of slimy ramp instead of stairs (so you could imagine it as a semi-natural formation or something the slimes have carved out with acid).

[white_noise]

Just one minor point: Somehow I can't see that ladder surviving long in the Slime Pits without completely dissolving Also I think the slimes sometimes move between levels and they wouldn't be able to climb ladders ... I am imagining some sort of slimy ramp instead of stairs (so you could imagine it as a semi-natural formation or something the slimes have carved out with acid).

It's actually second variant. First I've made stone staircases covered with goo in manner of entrance arch. But somehow I found it boring. So there came ladders in slimy holes. This semitransparent splat beneath them will look better when applied on background texture. And ladders are made by adventurers who need means to travel between levels. As well as in lair. Beasts don't need them. And slimes can travel though almost any cracks. As soon as ladder dissolves someone makes another one, and so on. This is my explanation

Although I agree that both ladders might be a bit out of place there. If they become a source of confusion of any kind I'll change them for sure. But in other hand we need some diversity with the stairs as well and ladder can be a viable alternative...

[Grimm]

Tilesmen and women will want to read this.

[white_noise]

So this is the one who made all these mobs and uniques... I must say that some (if not most) of them are masterpieces.

About the torches. I don't think that we need such big halos around them. But it (I mean halos) can be used successfully in 32x32 format and I used it already for every torch in main dungeon "extra tiles". There is an open question about animation though... It sure would look better if frames would be independant of game turns, but on the other hand it would look strange that everything else is static and torches are burning. But I think it worth trying in some trunk.

Also he wrotes that:

My only regret related to this point is that I probably should have radically improved the brightness and contrast of the dungeon art once it was clear that a lighting system was never going to happen.

And I don't get it. I think that original main dungeon art is PERFECT. It is so much better than anything else I've seen in other branches. It is so smooth that I like to visit main dungeon just to let my eyes heal a bit after I hurt them badly in some extra-bright and extra-contrast branches. I personally think that we need to take these tiles as example. I did it myself when I revamped the crypt, I did it when I tried to expand on main dungeon, and I'll do it again if I will attempt to improve any other branch tile set.

[Grimm]

My only regret related to this point is that I probably should have radically improved the brightness and contrast of the dungeon art once it was clear that a lighting system was never going to happen.

And I don't get it. I think that original main dungeon art is PERFECT. It is so much better than anything else I've seen in other branches. It is so smooth that I like to visit main dungeon just to let my eyes heal a bit after I hurt them badly in some extra-bright and extra-contrast branches. I personally think that we need to take these tiles as example. I did it myself when I revamped the crypt, I did it when I tried to expand on main dungeon, and I'll do it again if I will attempt to improve any other branch tile set.

I find I have to turn my screen brightness up a little when in the main dungeon. Maybe that's what he means. I agree with you, I think it looks great, especially for something you stare at for several hours. Shoals, now, that's a tileset that could do with some dimming.