Questions about Managing Followers

[XuaXua]

I have decided to try to be a Hill Orc Priest.

How the heck do I manage followers? I decided to pop back up to the prior level and get something and a random roving band of orcs was all like, DADDY!

Suddenly I have 6 poorly-armed kids. WTF. How do I equip them? The hill orc guide says you can do this, but there are no commands I can find under "?".

[AtT]

Press Ctrl+T to chose what you allow them to pick up. It does reset itself to default after a time though, I'm not sure how to leave it on (a)all permanently.

[XuaXua]

Press Ctrl+T to chose what you allow them to pick up. It does reset itself to default after a time though, I'm not sure how to leave it on (a)all permanently.

That is kind of eh.

I wonder if there can be an inscription code one can do to specify stuff.

[XuaXua]

Holy shit having these guys is a game changer and has made Crawl even more fun than before. It's too bad I can't do this with other types of characters.

[XuaXua]

So... these guys don't wear helmets or rings or wands or anything?

Keep dropping stuff like that, setting it to a and nothing gets picked up.

Arrows, maybe.

Man, it would be cool if they are next to a plant that, instead of shooting it with a breakable arrow, they just whip out the weapon and attack it.
Also would be cool if they could quiver more than one type of arrow because holy crap.

[XuaXua]

if I use a wand of polymorph other on one of my ally orcs... what happens? Do I lose him/her/it?

[Un67]

^ I think that counts as a hostile action. You can just drag them over to neqoxecs or evaporate mutation potions, though.

[tormodpwns]

I've played a fairly successful HOPr (3 runes, died in Zot:5). You can't command your allies to pick up any particular item - they will always go for the armor or weapon with the greatest base AC/damage, regardless of other properties. For example, your orc will wear a +0 plate mail over a +4 scale mail (rF++, rC++, AC+5), not that such a godly item would exist, but just as an example. Reissuing the Crtl-T A command isn't a big deal, just do it every time after you finish a big battle and there's lots of equipment lying around. One important note is that your orc will not pick up an item until you have walked over it; if you want an orc to pick up an item, just stand on top it, issue Ctrl-T A, then walk away, making sure the orc follows. You can even have them pick up wands, which can be useful for training up weakling orcs.

You'll want to have a balanced army by the end game. For most of the game, I was running around with (if my memory serves me well) 3 warlords, 3 knights, 1 sorcerer, 1 high priest, and 1 Saint Roka. You'll pick up tons of low-level orcs in the Elven Halls and the Vaults. Don't worry if they die; just make sure you have a group of 7-8 orcs that will stick around you and gain experience and blessings. Keep them mostly melee, because they can absorb damage much better than the wizards and priests. A sorcerer is useful for demon summons and bolt spells (the sorcerer will never cast a bolt that can damage an ally), and high priests can heal themselves, summon demons, and smite. Regardless, your army composition will probably turn out this way simply because of the durability of each type of orc, so don't worry.

Recalling your allies is an invaluable tool. Use it to save your orcs, especially the fragile ones like high priests which, even if wearing plate mail, can die to 6-headed hydras in 2 turns. Recalling your allies rearranges their position, which can be a real life-saver. Use recall whenever your orcs wander too far away, because you don't want them getting caught out of position alone. Always fight in open spaces if possible; you can get surrounds (lol, I'm thinking about wc3 and sc2 right now) on enemies. Even the toughest unique will fall extremely quickly when surrounded by you and your warlords, and being smited by your priests and summoned demons. This is especially important in the orb chamber, when you can easily draw out a single orb of fire or ancient lich and surround them in an already-cleared chamber cell.

Also, make sure not to wield a shield of reflection. You WILL reflect an arrow or dart at some point and hit your greatest ally with it. It will promptly turn hostile and you will have lost a massive investment that cannot be re-earned: It is nearly impossible to re-train an orcish ally past the Vaults point of the game. Even a freshly converted knight will not last very long without experience and blessings.

[XuaXua]

I have Nergalle which is AWESOME.

My first High Priest died because ?
My first Warlord died because he went after a merged slime. I have another.
I keep making sure we're armed with ranged weapons.
No one seems to pick up wands.

I used mutagenic clouds to create an elf and a merfolk and a moth of wrath, but they all suck. Also they do not travel in the orc cluster that goes between floors unless immediately beside you (BOO! FOLLOWER JUGGLING BAD!)

Some monster used a wand of polymorph against us and I had an Ice Dragon for a while till he died for an unexplained reason.

[XuaXua]

QUESTION

Is there a reason why, when I throw something at an incoming enemy, with no other viable targets around, my missile-wielding allies don't immediately recognize that they should also missile the same target, but instead pend until I announce an attack command?

[XuaXua]

QUESTION - What is the pickup logic?
I have found it best to pile up a ton of equipment into three stacks in a long 1x corridor to force them to walk over it: weapons, armor and ranged weapons. I always hit Ctrl-T A right before they walk.
Sometimes orcs don't pick stuff up if there is a mix or the pile seems too deep, but I'm not certain what the logic is behind some decisions.

QUESTION - Wands
The wiki, which I understand is consistently out of date, mentions that orc followers will pick up wands.

When does this happen because holy crap PICK UP THAT DAMN WAND I JUST PUT DOWN FOR YOU! ALL OF YOU!

QUESTION - Ranged Weapons
8 bows, several stacks of arrows. Unarmed orcs. Passover passover passover NO PICKUP. WHAT THE HECK.

QUESTION - CURSED WEAPONS
My favorite knight just picked up a cursed longbow and is perma-wielding it. How do I get it uncursed with my stack of 9 remove curse scrolls?

[Serne]

U wait for Beogh to give his longbow a blessing... if he doesn't die first.

[XuaXua]

U wait for Beogh to give his longbow a blessing... if he doesn't die first.

He's been swapping it out lately and in fact traded up (or down) for a branded bow, so yeah that works.

[Konebred]

Be careful reading scrolls with your little dudes around. I lost a fun game on my first HOPr due to reading a scroll of immolation and blowing up half my guys. The orcs that lived quickly cut me down. If you like that style of gameplay you can do a generic summoner. Their summons don't last long, but you get to pick and choose what you will need. Other option is to worship Yredelemnul. After you max out his piety he starts sending undead to follow permanently. Some of these can raise their own undead so eventually you feel like some sort of warlord leading all these zombies and wraiths and shit around, it's pretty cool.

[XuaXua]

I always id scrolls and decks out of LOS of my followers. I would love to know answers to the other questions asked.

[XuaXua]

OK... so if I am on a board with 100 followers, apparently the strongest warriors of my Beogh orc religion bubble over next to me.

The uniques (Blork, Nergalle, Saint Roka, etc.), the strongest warriors (Knights, warriors), sorcerors (wizards some priests and sorcerers), but not HIGH PRIESTS.

High Priests stay quite the heck away. What's up with that? It's almost impossible to get them to go with.

[Serne]

Well... they are following you BUT maybe just maybe they're mad cuz they didn't get to be Orc Jesus.

[XuaXua]

I'm looking at the organizing order. It currently appears to be:

Uniques means Blork, Nergalle, Saint Roka, Whasername_with_the_javelins.

Proximity Order appears to be:

1 : ALLY : Summons / Undead
2 : ORC : Uniques except Saint Roka / Named Warlords
3 : ORC : Warlords / Named Knights
4 : ORC : Knights / Named Sorcerers
5 : ORC : Sorcerers / Named Warriors / Warriors / Named Priests / Named Wizards / Named High Priests / High Priests / Saint Roka
6 : ORC : Priests / Wizards / Normals

Proximity Order, assuming ALLY characters can be grouped in the 3-square connectivity range with ORCS but only under Beogh, probably should be:

01 : ORC : ALL Uniques / Named Warlords
02 : ORC : Warlords / Named Sorcerers / Named High Priests
03 : ALLY : Level-Travel-Allowed Ally created by or for Player
04 : ORC : Named Knights / Sorcerers / High Priests
05 : ORC : Knights / Named Priests / Named Wizards
06 : ALLY : Level-Travel-Allowed Ally created by Ally
07 : ORC : Named Warriors
08 : ORC : Warriors / Priests / Wizards
09 : ALLY : Any other Ally allowed level travel
10 : ORC : Normals
11 : ALLY : Ally restricted from level travel

I've submitted a bug for this.

Edited because I just converted Saint Roka and he's as far away from me as possible.

[XuaXua]

This is getting idiotic... IT'S A +4 FLAMING DEMON BLADE AND A +3/+2 DEMON TRIDENT OF FROST, PICK THEM UP AND USE THEM!!!!!

[Eaki Godsbane]

Seems that Orc followers only pick up one type of weapon and only switched for stronger variants.

I.e. swords for swords, axes for axes... although they prefer Orcish variants if possible.
Even handedness applies, as in they probably won't switch a one-hand for a two-handed weapon.
Ranged weapons are more flexible; as in some of my orcs swap their stones with bows&arrows, while another picks up a sling.

For armor; they go for the heavier, high ac types. My orcs always go for full plates, even ignoring the randart ring/scale mails I give them.

An unarmed, unarmored Orc seems to be the easiest to equip.

What I would really want is a way to command specific Orcs. It's difficult trying to leave those you don't want in a previous level, or telling specific Orcs you want them to come with you... all because the shout command affects every ally in the general area.

[AtT]

Orcs will also pick up spears and axes and throw them. I have no idea how this affects their priority though

[XuaXua]

Orcs will also pick up spears and axes and throw them. I have no idea how this affects their priority though

It does affect my level of annoyed when they throw the artefact spear at something in deep water.

[XuaXua]

How deep in a stack do followers look for items? Sometimes there are items they should pick up, but they don't, so I move it to a new stack, and they pick them up.

[Blade]

One thing that's been remarkable while playing my first HOPr in Trunk: Polearms.

Sure, they're terrible weapons for you, but if you have a couple of knights or warlords following you around adding to your damage output no matter what the terrain, almost anything will fall.

...including hydrae.

...it's incredibly foolish, but so fun to lop off heads with your knights until the 13-headed behemoth falls to the ground.

[Caethan]

This is getting idiotic... IT'S A +4 FLAMING DEMON BLADE AND A +3/+2 DEMON TRIDENT OF FROST, PICK THEM UP AND USE THEM!!!!!

FYI, there's a bug in 0.9 and up that prevents mobs from swapping to weapons once they've already got something wielded (unless the new weapon is throwable). So currently the only way to get an orc to wield a particular weapon is to give it to him when he doesn't have one wielded at all.

[Caethan]

How deep in a stack do followers look for items? Sometimes there are items they should pick up, but they don't, so I move it to a new stack, and they pick them up.

From source diving: they'll always look at least two items deep. Each item past that, they've got a 50% chance of giving up. (So 50% of looking at the third, 25% of looking at the fourth, etc.)

[Caethan]

For armor; they go for the heavier, high ac types. My orcs always go for full plates, even ignoring the randart ring/scale mails I give them.

From more source diving: orcs will wear the highest value armor they can, valuing armor as:
AC bonus + 1/resistance pip (-1 for vulnerability) + 1 for any magic resistance + 1 for see invisible.

Orcs will also wear shields, with values as armour but valuing reflection as +3. But orcs also prefer higher damage two-handed weapons to shields.

[XuaXua]

How deep in a stack do followers look for items? Sometimes there are items they should pick up, but they don't, so I move it to a new stack, and they pick them up.

From source diving: they'll always look at least two items deep. Each item past that, they've got a 50% chance of giving up. (So 50% of looking at the third, 25% of looking at the fourth, etc.)

I will no longer create giant equip stacks in corridors. :/

[XuaXua]

Don't ever put down that Crystal Plate Mail +0 that you're still waiting on Enchant scrolls for; some ass will pick it up and become a warlord.

[Serne]

Well... you could let him build up the bonus on it and then let him get ganked... OR enjoy your shiny new warlord of DESTRUCTION.

[XuaXua]

Well... you could let him build up the bonus on it and then let him get ganked... OR enjoy your shiny new warlord of DESTRUCTION.

He got ganked when we raided D:27 early and now there are several dragons sitting on his corpse.

Just cleared out ELF:5 and got 5 enchant scrolls. Looks like a revisit to D:27 is coming up.

[Eaki Godsbane]

Ugh, raiding the Swamps with a particular Orc knight wielding a whip of electrocution is pretty much a bad idea.

Most of my weaker Orcs got zapped to death with friendly fire before I wised up and left the troublemaker back in the Lair.

[njvack]

Ugh, raiding the Swamps with a particular Orc knight wielding a whip of electrocution is pretty much a bad idea.

Do I remember correctly that intelligent monsters no longer self-drown when confused? Bringing orcs to Swamp used to be "find a swamp drake and watch your Orc Knights instantly drown."

[XuaXua]

Ugh, raiding the Swamps with a particular Orc knight wielding a whip of electrocution is pretty much a bad idea.

Do I remember correctly that intelligent monsters no longer self-drown when confused? Bringing orcs to Swamp used to be "find a swamp drake and watch your Orc Knights instantly drown."

Now they just all die from the poison. I leave my orcs at home and let an orc gifts fend for themselves (I threw a "gift" at a silver statue recently; came back and there were orc corpses everywhere (pray targets!) and the statue had one pip of life left; blink and whack took care of it.

[XuaXua]

Well... you could let him build up the bonus on it and then let him get ganked... OR enjoy your shiny new warlord of DESTRUCTION.

He got ganked when we raided D:27 early and now there are several dragons sitting on his corpse.

Granted, what pissed me off more was killing the Golden Dragon, moving to step on its blatantly visible corpse, noticing I cannot pick it up because MY HIGH PRIEST RESURRECTED IT SO NO GOLD DRAGON ARMOR FOR ME!

I'm of the mind that zombie dragons should potentially drop dragon hides when slain.

[Blade]

Well... you could let him build up the bonus on it and then let him get ganked... OR enjoy your shiny new warlord of DESTRUCTION.

He got ganked when we raided D:27 early and now there are several dragons sitting on his corpse.

Granted, what pissed me off more was killing the Golden Dragon, moving to step on its blatantly visible corpse, noticing I cannot pick it up because MY HIGH PRIEST RESURRECTED IT SO NO GOLD DRAGON ARMOR FOR ME!

I'm of the mind that zombie dragons should potentially drop dragon hides when slain.

Yeah...high priests are often worse than useless, in my experience. Not only are they squishy with a high tendency to get in trouble, their dead-raising steals your corpses and gets in the way of your knights and warlords.

[Eaki Godsbane]

I like high priests.

They summon demons too, which in turn summon critters of their own... giving you an instant army to command.
Plus, an army of high priests will smite-spam to death anything they can see. Great fun.

Although it's a bit unfair that high Orc priests can desecrate the corpses of fellow Orcs(via animate dead) without any repercussions from Beough.