By ramus2

This race of jellies is largely similar to the jellies of the dungeons, with the exception that its origin is a lab of an unnamed wizard who experimented on natural jellies. The result was a variety of Jelly with the capacity to think. Returning back to the dungeon, you as a jelly have realized just how nice it'd be to have that Orb of Zot.

• Maybe instead of hauling the orb back to the top, Jelly players would eat the orb. This would grant the player some nice permanent bonuses. — the_belgian 2010-04-09 18:06

Features of the Race:

• HP regeneration is normal.
• Hunger Rate: 5
• The jelly is medium sized.
• Speed is 10.
• Jellies lack weapon, armor, gloves, boots, helmet, and cloak slots.
• Jellies have high acid resistance, sickness resistance, and poison resistance from the start.
• The Jelly gains normal nutrition from foods, but when eating non-food items will gain nutrition equal to (aum)*50. Note, eating a royal jelly is not cannibalistic. Unless the programmers feel like being silly. Also, Jellies can not eat anything made of rock, such as stones, large rocks, and nondescript stones.
• When eating a piece of armor, a jelly will add that armor's AC onto its own (Shields' SH value will be equal to the AC amount it provides). So, eating a ring mail and then another ring mail means AC will equal 8. However, AC values will rot over time and any resistances or bonuses given by the armor will also rot over time. My current (and rough) equation for this is 1 AC for every 1000^(7/x)+2d100-100 turns where x is equal to the current AC.
• Eating artifact armor will also work the same way, but decay at a different rate. You'll absorb the bonuses as normal, but the decay rate will be 1 AC for every 1000^(13/x)+4d100-200.
• Armor in the Jelly's system will decay in the order it was eaten. For example, if you ate a ring mail and then a platemail of cold resistance, the ring mail will first decay completely and then the platemail will begin, allowing the player to hold onto the cold resistance longer.
• The mutations and abilities screen (accessed with 'A') will list the current order of armor in the system with the first in line being the one being digested.
• Eating a weapon will do nothing except give the Jelly a bonus to its attack if the weapon was branded (so a fire, acidic punch). This bonus lasts 1000 turns.
• If a jelly eats at engorged level, it will split in two and have its HP cut in half and either the first half or latter half of armor being digested is lost to the second jelly. The new jelly is neutral.
• Cursed items will simply cause damage when eaten based on aum (aum/5 damage per eat?)
• Rings will work differently, as eating them causes the ring's effect to become a normal mutation in the Jelly that can be removed like normal mutations. However, the Jelly can put the ring on and be able to remove it. However, the ring will decay over time, a period of 5,000 turns, forcing the player to ration out its uses.
• Ring slots are available as follows: one at XL 1, two at XL 3, three at XL 6, four at XL 10, five at XL 15.
• Also, absorbed armor does not effect spellcasting rate and the jelly can't train armor or shields.
• Any absorbed items are otherwise treated like normal equipment.
• A jelly priest will have the option of worshiping Jiyva.
• In replacement of ranged weapons, the jelly can spit acid at xl 5.

* Due to the fact that jellies absorb weapons and armor, and thus don't really use them.

By ramus2

Problems with the whole eating weapons with the jelly, it doesn't quite work as conveniently as armor does with AC as all armor essentially does the same thing at the same rate, weapons don't and have a variety of types. Thus, I wondering if people will yay or nay the following:

• Drop all weapon skills with the exception of unarmed and drop unarmed to -1.
• When eating a weapon, add on the attack as a bonus to the jelly's unarmed attack. Any special attributes that the weapon may have had (freezing, draining, fire, etc.) is also added to the jelly's attack. That can mean flaming jelly fists of fury. This potentially means an insane boost in attack for a short while if you eat several weapons at once.
• Weapons also should decay at a much faster rate than armor, making it so that the jelly keeps the temporary power up motif. That way when the jelly needs to hit hard, it can do so, but only for a while.
• Enchant weapon scrolls just power up whatever was put in the stomach most recently and thus causes it to last longer.
• Cursed weapons should carry some penalty. Again, this will probably be decided when we figure out what a cursed piece of armor does.
• Artifact weapons will also decay slower, but perhaps faster than normal armor to avoid being abusable with insane attack.
• Ranged weapons are just treated as food. The jelly can still throw items and perhaps to follow the general “jelliness” should instead of throw items, it can spit items at enemies. Perhaps stepping too far from the norm, but it's a simple solution just to expand what the jelly can throw.

Reading over the witch's cat article, I began wondering what the heck the author meant with “cheating” and then I kinda figured out that perhaps I'm over complicating this. Jellies don't have any attacks other than unarmed in the game anyway, so why not work this out like one does with armor? Yeah, this change runs on simplicity. It may mean several odd bonuses to the jelly for attacks, but eh.

• Instead of cycling through armor and jewellery, the Jelly could instead just flat out absorb the AC and other stats when eating the stuff. However, AC will decay over time and at higher levels, decay more rapidly. Resistance will disappear after a long but finite time. This still leaves the question of what to do about artifacts which can't be eaten.
• Jellies could perhaps wear hats, robes, and other cloth like items.
• All items give nutrition, not just metal items.
• Weapons are still undecided for new system.
  • Perhaps morphable appendages that take on the weapon class (for skills)? This way they're technically not equipping it — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
• Maybe this race could be aquatic, as monster jellies are? I think there's room for another swimming race. — og17 2010-03-05 00:10
  • Yes, of course. — dpeg 2010-03-05 00:28
• When eating a weapon, perhaps it should go something like this: Enchantments stack, the previous weapon wielded is dissolved and the enchantments placed on the new weapon, brands are over written. Over time, the brand will disappear and enchantments will decay, higher the enchantment, faster the decay. +0,+0 weapons will eventually disappear and leave the Jelly in unarmed mode.
  • Wouldn't this along with the armour eating make any equippable modification scroll pointless? Since the weapon has been consumed, I would assume it does not have form anymore and has been digested, with the jelly taking on attributes no matter the identification/cursed status of it. Although the downside to blindly eating badly enchanted items would be damage/accuracy/defense reduction, what would be the punishment for eating cursed items? I see earlier you mention something about excreting, but that would imply recovering the item/removing the bonuses/material of the item from the jelly. — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32

I like the basic idea quite a lot, for these reasons:

• Monster jellies are infamous. Having them with Jiyva is good; playing one is also good.
• The mechanic that all intrinsics (AC, resistances) are temporary would be new and interesting. A jelly wouldn't idle, it would eat, eat, eat.

Some more ideas:

• With jellies, it's absolutely not clear why they should have humanoid symmetries, in particular two hands. We could say that as they grow, they can make use of more rings. (They should always be able to use an amulet, I think that could be pictured without being too silly.) Since they won't use boots or gloves, that would allow up to four rings. (I want to make sure that their set fits into the % screen.) I am also not sure that jellies should wield weapons, so that would allow five rings. We could say that they can use rings as follow: one at XL 1, two at XL 3, three at XL 6, four at XL 10, five at XL 15. — dpeg 2010-03-05 00:28
  • I second this idea, as it would provide more consistent bonuses VS armour/weapons that would get overwritten, giving a player who finds enough good rings to at least have some bonus. There should be a drawback for cursed rings though, if you're foolish enough to wear them. Similarly to cursed armour/weapons, but rings are not seemingly instantly dissolved like those, so perhaps a different drawback. — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
• I suggest that jellies can eat right up to Engorged, and whatever they eat, will affect them (so AC gained from eating armour items etc). However, if they are Engorged and keep eating, they spawn off neutral monster allies (so players will generally want to avoid that).
• Nothing should be permanent: the rings they wear should slowly dissolve (but the effect of a ring would last much longer than just eating it — of course, you could wear one ring of rF and then eat another one in battle to get rF++).
• There is the matter of randarts: if we want to keep them undissolvable, we could say that wielding/carrying such an item causes damage over time. Alternatively, we could rule that randarts can be used, and erode in a jelly's possession (just slower).
  • Possibly adding a passive ability to “Break Down” the randart, gradually taking the attributes of the randart itself over the course of a bunch of turns, in exchange for the ability to eat anything from that equipment slot for a while? (not sure how rings would work with the 4-5 ring thing, perhaps the same way?). This way, they are forced to choose between staying the same/getting gradually decreasing bonus from eating due to not being able to eat, or getting the bonuses from the randart (which after a while would disappear over time like regular eequipment bonuses). (The more powerful the randart, the longer it takes) — thndrshk2k
  • Along with this idea, maybe the Jelly could keep track of the last aten item of a certain type in the Shift-A screen that lists mutations, or a second screen to it like the vampire has. This way the player can see the last aten item for each type of equipment slot, and list of bonuses from previous items and their decay rate. Would be useful to know when your rF+ is going to wear off. — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
• Jellies and Jiyva: Player jellies should not follow the slime god, but we could say that all J monsters are neutral, at least as long as the player does not have a religion (different from Jiyva). Gameplay-wise, I think it's much more interesting to allow god choice for jelly players; flavour-wise, player jellies and Jiyva are two completely different sources of acidid lumps in the dungeon.
  • Just to clarify this, it appears he meant to say “should not start the game following the slime god”, as it would restrict many of the religious classes. Although Jiyva bonuses should be beneficial to the Jelly race, the race should have religious freedom. (Clarification from IRC) — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
  • Actually, wouldn't Zin be opposed to jellies worshiping him? Maybe prohibit Jelly characters from becoming Priests? — spudwalt 2012-10-14 08:53
• There remains the question if/how jellies can carry things (and how much). It would lead to very annoying gameplay if they couldn't carry anything.
  • Well, we'll just say it carries a pouch on top of itself. Honestly, inventory should stay largely the same with the exception of stuff wielded.
• An idea for stat loss: when a jelly loses a stat, sometimes take another stat (higher chances if the chosen stat is very low).
• When a slime eats a book it should be tried to learn all spells in it,regardless of spellslots,but the spells learned this way have a high chance to decay after each cast. andorxor 2010-03-05 10:51
  • Perhaps instead of decaying spells, a slime should not regenerate MP normally. Decaying spells would mean eventually, a whole book would be gone and it'd be pointless to play a slime caster, unless you find another book later on with the spell you need. Although the idea of forcing someone who wants to play a caster to cycle through spells until they're good is an interesting, it'd just add too much complexity to the jelly and would be more suitable for another race. — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
  • Another idea is to have the jelly only able to learn spells from the spellbook it has the points to invest in. So they would have to decide between not eating the book until they gain a level, or eating the book and only learn less spells than they could at a later level. — thndrshk2k 2010-03-11 01:32
• It seems like the jelly as described here would lead to players, before any difficult section such as a branch end or Zot 5, to pile up a ton of armor and weapons right outside and then eat it all in one go (starving themselves beforehand if necessary to avoid the satiation thing), granting themselves arbitrarily high AC and weapon damage and an arbitrarily large collection of weapon brands and resistances. Perhaps there should be a hard or soft cap on the AC you can have from eating armor and the bonus damage from eating weapons, and you certainly shouldn't get multiple weapon brands at once. Resistances are a bit trickier to keep the flavor of the species without leading to this scumming, since runed or glowing armor is all over the place after a point. Maybe that should just be from the last item of each class that you ate; you'd generally be a bit low on resistances unless you ate good artifacts but you would still have five real jewelry slots, and anyways that's one of the prices you pay for being a jelly. I guess the real problem with that idea is that resistances are usually only gained from the body armor and jewelry slots, not the other armor ones; maybe then the last 5 body armors or so instead. — brickman 2010-09-24 01:39
• Another possibillity would be, to let the jelly hold wepons, wich dissolve slowly upon use.I´ve seen a drawing once, where the jelly had the weapons inside of itself and used them. To me, the idea of it just poking others with the blade by “puking” it at them, before sucking it back in doesn´t seem too unusual.Wearing “limb” clothing could also be possible, since the jelly can just form pseudopods. A possible way to make it unnique with that, could be to make it able to wear all armour, at the price of slowly dissolving it.Same with the weapons, since they get weaker by time, it would be possible to let it have high aptitudes, since it “holds” the weapons inside of its body.— Shagoth 2012-12-11 20:59

These are just here for archiving purposes. The Jelly has largely moved in a different direction now.

• Non-regenerative HP. Instead, you have to eat items (anything that is an item) to regenerate HP. Alternatively, eating could just stop perma-rot like it does for a ghoul.
• Absorb, an ability different from eat. It functions like the wear and wield command, except you absorb that item and if you absorb another item of the same type, that item is lost forever, including artifacts. This makes equipment for the jelly much more thought inducing. In addition, absorbing items might heal permanent HP lost to the perma-rot.
• Low intelligence and dexterity due to being a slime but decent strength. Up for change though.
• Poison and acid resistance.
• Acid damage bonus to attacks.
• Move at normal speed.
• Can combine with neutral or allied slimes for HP increase.
• When worshiping Jiyva, you just have to eat to please Jiyva.
• Spellcasting aptitude should be high, like 130 due to being a dumb jelly, though other magic, like transmutation should be easy to pick up since you're a moldable jelly, so like 60?
• Perhaps also absorbing heavy armor shouldn't drop cast rate, making the jelly a more versatile race once you get over some initial bumps.
• Absorbing a weapon will change attack rate and type to that weapon. To unarm, it'd probably be easy just to have an excrete option.
• Absorbing an item should also tell you the stats immediately, regardless of the item since it's a one time deal and allows the player to gamble a bit on the identify game with amulets and rings in early game.
• Cursed items shouldn't be excrete-able until uncursed.

Ghouls have enough HP to make their endgame rot “problems” not problems, and if it was a problem, why introduce another race because of it? It makes little sense for a player slime to have DD or ghoul downsides anyway, as all slimes but the royal jelly regenerate, some rather quickly, and even death oozes don't rot. Also, the “merge with friendly/neutral jellies” suggestion is all but useless without Jiyva; is the player expected to learn Enslave to have full access to his racial abilities? Would Jiyva approve of consuming slimes, anyway? If he does, this would make incredibly more sense as a Jiyva ability. — og17 2010-03-04 04:45

Okay, so the merge is rather situational. Should that be removed all together? After all, it seems “slimy” enough as far as flavor goes but I guess it doesn't make much sense game play wise. However, I think rot would be interesting as it forces the player to cycle through items when he or she would otherwise stick to one very good piece of armor found in the dungeon. — ramus2 2010-03-04 07:15

On second thought, perhaps this race is being overcomplicated. Remove the rot and make regeneration normal. Combine and eat and absorb and make it so that non-metal items give very little food but metal items are very filling. Maybe bump up hunger rate too so that it's more important to rotate items through the stomach. — ramus2 2010-03-04 07:15

Just a few thoughts here about the race. They may not all be good, but I'm just throwing them up in the air to hope that the idea for the race becomes more defined.

• Hunger - Instead of HP rot, why not a system based on hunger, like the vampire. Because the jelly moves around the dungeon, it's bound to lose some mass, eating makes it regain the mass. Although the jelly can eat anything, and there is a lot to be found in the dungeon, this might just be a minor annoyance even with Fast Metabolism 3, unless the jelly gains less hunger points from all items.
• -Full/Engorged - More mass, Slower, EV penalty, but bonus max HP (Maybe related to overloaded or encumbered.)
• -Normal - Normal
• -Hungry/Starving - Less mass, faster, EV bonus, STR penalty, but reduced max HP
• Hunger [2] - With poison resist, the jelly could practically eat anything, so any hunger issues would be minor due to holding onto chunks of meat or corpses. Perhaps when losing a significant amount of HP, your hunger increases as well. Another idea is to have the jelly instant digest all organic items upon pickup, and forcing the jelly to use turns to eat the item. (Provides a reason not to pick up corpses mid-battle just in case you get hungry)
• Evocations or Reading - How would a jelly hold a wand orrod, or read scrolls or books? As far as we know, it might not even have eyes.
• Equipping -
• -How would a jelly hold a weapon? Would they absorb it, or just have it floating around?
• -If they hold weapons, ranged weapons would be a very large problem. Perhaps the inborn ability to “Throw” or”Spit” any types of ammo?
• -When 'equipped', the jelly would instantly meld the item, and gain mutations based on the stats of the item. Although more complex and artifact items might pose an issue. Enchanted items also a bit of an issue too due to the +#+# modifiers.
• -When unequipping an item, because of the nature of a jelly, it should function as the jelly eating the item as it would with the eat command.
• Aptitudes - Probably should be about 140+ for spellcasting, except transmutation (even though there are spells that transmutate other objects other than yourself). Fighting skills should be about 100 or a little bit more. Stealth could be at 90-95 or even lower due to being a jelly/not walking around.
• Abilities -
• *Spit acid, to corrod enemy equipment
• *Minor Divide, Sacrifice some HP (Specific amount) to spawn a friendly small slime (not useful for combat, but useful for distracting enemies and running away) Increases hunger
• *Major Divide, Sacrifice significant amount of HP(% of current) to spawn a friendly jelly creature (based on amount of HP sacraficed.) Increases hunger

> — thndrshk2k 2010-03-04 23:09

Spitting acid feels like a large overlap with nagas (and with one of the draconian colours, but that's not really an issue as they can spit just about anything if they're the right colour). It might be more thematic to have jellies spit acid than nagas, but I have another idea…

Since they can't digest stones, rocks, and other things (we have a weapon that's made from stone, right?), what if they can, in lieu of being able to use any other ranged weapon, spit stones (using/training the Throwing skill)? This isn't something that they could do forever, given the high mulching rates, and them being rather uncommon (although very common if they find a way of digging or smashing walls… this is one of the few flaws in this idea), but it would be something that they could do repeatedly (apart from the ammo limits).

If it's not desired for stones to become a staple of gameplay, then a cost could be added to the spit action, such as health or hunger (fragments being stuck to the outsides). Large rocks (and other larger inedible objects) would not be able to be thrown as easily (larger cost?), but it might be a way of making them get more ammo in a pinch. — pineapple 2010-04-17 03:06

Edit/Delete as needed, but moving here from Consolidated Species for consistency — XuaXua 2011-12-20 07:00

By ramus2

This race of jellies is largely similar to the jellies of the dungeons, with the exception that its origin is a lab of an unnamed wizard who experimented on natural jellies. The result was a variety of Jelly with the capacity to think. Returning back to the dungeon, you as a jelly have realized just how nice it'd be to have that Orb of Zot.

Features of the Race:

• HP regeneration is normal and the hunger rate is one level higher than normal.
• The jelly is medium sized.
• Speed is 10.
• Jellies have high acid resistance and poison resistance from the start.
• The jelly only obtains a tenth of the nutrition from food as the human race gains. Jellies can also eat anything that is an item, as well as miscellaneous objects such as doors (or anything a regular jelly can eat). However, you can also eat artifacts. Attempting to eat an altar will get you punished by the respective god and even excommunicated if you tried to eat the altar of your god.
• Eating metal items (heavy armor, just about all melee weapons, rings, amulets, and arrows) will give nutrition equal to (aum)*150 (number is up for debate, please read here http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Hunger#Satiation_levels about food levels)
• Eating armor, weapons, or jewelery will also cause you to absorb said item. This means eating a +0 scale mail of fire resistance will give you 5AC and fire resistance. Eating a weapon will give you the attack speed, type, and damage of that weapon until you either choose to excrete it or eat a new weapon.
• Upon eating an item that has a slot already filled, the current item will be destroyed and the new item will fill its place (so eating a platemail will replace that chain mail, however, if you then eat a chain mail, the bonuses from the platemail are lost and you'll be using the AC from the chain mail). You can still excrete any given item at any given time unless…
• Cursed items can't be excreted until you remove the curse off of that item.
• Also, absorbed armor does not effect spellcasting rate and the jelly can't train armor or shields.
• Any absorbed items are otherwise treated like normal equipment.

* Due to the fact that jellies absorb armor, they suffer none of the disadvantages of armor and technically don't even use armor, so those stats can be set to whatever.

Early stage ideas, put here for archiving reasons:

• Non-regenerative HP. Instead, you have to eat items (anything that is an item) to regenerate HP. Alternatively, eating could just stop perma-rot like it does for a ghoul.
• Absorb, an ability different from eat. It functions like the wear and wield command, except you absorb that item and if you absorb another item of the same type, that item is lost forever, including artifacts. This makes equipment for the jelly much more thought inducing. In addition, absorbing items might heal permanent HP lost to the perma-rot.
• Low intelligence and dexterity due to being a slime but decent strength. Up for change though.
• Poison and acid resistance.
• Acid damage bonus to attacks.
• Move at normal speed.
• Can combine with neutral or allied slimes for HP increase.
• When worshiping Jiyva, you just have to eat to please Jiyva.
• Spellcasting aptitude should be high, like 130 due to being a dumb jelly, though other magic, like transmutation should be easy to pick up since you're a moldable jelly, so like 60?
• Perhaps also absorbing heavy armor shouldn't drop cast rate, making the jelly a more versatile race once you get over some initial bumps.
• Absorbing a weapon will change attack rate and type to that weapon. To disarm, it'd probably be easy just to have an excrete option.
• Absorbing an item should also tell you the stats immediately, regardless of the item since it's a one time deal and allows the player to gamble a bit on the identify game with amulets and rings in early game.
• Cursed items shouldn't be excrete-able until uncursed.

Ghouls have enough HP to make their endgame rot “problems” not problems, and if it was a problem, why introduce another race because of it? It makes little sense for a player slime to have DD or ghoul downsides anyway, as all slimes but the royal jelly regenerate, some rather quickly, and even death oozes don't rot. Also, the “merge with friendly/neutral jellies” suggestion is all but useless without Jiyva; is the player expected to learn Enslave to have full access to his racial abilities? Would Jiyva approve of consuming slimes, anyway? If he does, this would make incredibly more sense as a Jiyva ability. — og17 2010-03-04 04:45

Okay, so the merge is rather situational. Should that be removed all together? After all, it seems “slimy” enough as far as flavor goes but I guess it doesn't make much sense game play wise. However, I think rot would be interesting as it forces the player to cycle through items when he or she would otherwise stick to one very good piece of armor found in the dungeon. — ramus2 2010-03-04 07:15

On second thought, perhaps this race is being overcomplicated. Remove the rot and make regeneration normal. Combine and eat and absorb and make it so that non-metal items give very little food but metal items are very filling. Maybe bump up hunger rate too so that it's more important to rotate items through the stomach. — ramus2 2010-03-04 07:15

Just a few thoughts here about the race. They may not all be good, but I'm just throwing them up in the air to hope that the idea for the race becomes more defined.

• Hunger - Instead of HP rot, why not a system based on hunger, like the vampire. Because the jelly moves around the dungeon, it's bound to lose some mass, eating makes it regain the mass. Although the jelly can eat anything, and there is a lot to be found in the dungeon, this might just be a minor annoyance even with Fast Metabolism 3, unless the jelly gains less hunger points from all items.
• -Full/Engorged - More mass, Slower, EV penalty, but bonus max HP (Maybe related to overloaded or encumbered.)
• -Normal - Normal
• -Hungry/Starving - Less mass, faster, EV bonus, STR penalty, but reduced max HP
• Hunger [2] - With poison resist, the jelly could practically eat anything, so any hunger issues would be minor due to holding onto chunks of meat or corpses. Perhaps when losing a significant amount of HP, your hunger increases as well. Another idea is to have the jelly instant digest all organic items upon pickup, and forcing the jelly to use turns to eat the item. (Provides a reason not to pick up corpses mid-battle just in case you get hungry)
• Evocations or Reading - How would a jelly hold a wand or rod, or read scrolls or books? As far as we know, it might not even have eyes.
• Equipping -
• -How would a jelly hold a weapon? Would they absorb it, or just have it floating around?
• -If they hold weapons, ranged weapons would be a very large problem. Perhaps the inborn ability to “Throw” or”Spit” any types of ammo?
• -When 'equipped', the jelly would instantly meld the item, and gain mutations based on the stats of the item. Although more complex and artifact items might pose an issue. Enchanted items also a bit of an issue too due to the +#+# modifiers.
• -When unequipping an item, because of the nature of a jelly, it should function as the jelly eating the item as it would with the eat command.
• Aptitudes - Probably should be about 140+ for spellcasting, except transmutation (even though there are spells that transmute other objects other than yourself). Fighting skills should be about 100 or a little bit more. Stealth could be at 90-95 or even lower due to being a jelly/not walking around.
• Abilities -
• *Spit acid, to corrode enemy equipment
• *Minor Divide, Sacrifice some HP (Specific amount) to spawn a friendly small slime (not useful for combat, but useful for distracting enemies and running away) Increases hunger
• *Major Divide, Sacrifice significant amount of HP(% of current) to spawn a friendly jelly creature (based on amount of HP sacrificed.) Increases hunger

> — thndrshk2k 2010-03-04 23:09