Tartarus Sorceror
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If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
Lasty wrote:I confess I have a bit of a soft spot in my heart for abyss knights (the truncated introduction to abyss mechanics, as others have suggested), but if they were removed I would be fine with simply increasing the number of Abyssal overflow vaults.
Crypt Cleanser
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dowan wrote:But can't we please have slime knights? Pretty please? I'll never ask for the removal of any other zealots again. I won't even use the word "dev" again!
Blades Runner
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Dungeon Master
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Quazifuji wrote:Personally, I think it would make a lot more sense to just let Jiyva be a temple god (or make early Jiyva overflow altars much, much more common) than to add Slime Knights. Lugonu at least has a very strong flavor reason for not being a Temple god, and for having very few overflow vaults. Jiyva kind of does, but less so (more an issue with a lack of intelligent worshipers, rather than his/her relationship with the other gods, as far as I know). And from a gameplay standpoint, I see no reason for early Jiyva to be limited to a zealot. Adding Slime Knights just seems like a pointless compromise.
Either there's a good reason for early Jiyva altars to be incredibly rare, and things should stay as they are, or there isn't, and early Jiyva altars should become common. I can't think of a good reason, so I'm in favor of more early Jiyva altars (I've only ever played one Jiyva game before, when I got the slime temple on a transmuter, and I loved it and would absolutely play more Jiyva games if it didn't usually require waiting for the end of Lair). But I'm open to hearing someone defending Jiyva's current status (I believe dpeg has said he's in favor of Jiyva remaining a non-temple god with limited accessibility, but I don't remember why).
Dungeon Master
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dynast wrote:I would like to see more Jiyva overflow altars.
Shoals Surfer
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Barkeep
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Malevolent wrote:Or I can choose a god with a mild punishment (Xom, maybe Hep? Not sure how crippling the XP moratorium is on Hep) and switch if I get lucky.
Ziggurat Zagger
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dpeg wrote:Perhaps see it like this: if you see an early Jiyva altar, *seriously* consider it.
Slime Squisher
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Spider Stomper
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Abyss Ambulator
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Shoals Surfer
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Shoals Surfer
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Vaults Vanquisher
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ZoFy wrote:As cool as the slime knight idea is, it's probably bad because having early loot/XP denied by jellies might leave characters underdeveloped. Though i have no idea why a guaranteed Jiyva altar near the Slime entrance isn't a thing already. You can't call Jiyva too good to have a guaranteed altar in a world where a game can be started with Trog.
Abyss Ambulator
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tabstorm wrote:You imply that balance is desirable in and of itself...
Tartarus Sorceror
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Swamp Slogger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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tabstorm wrote:You imply that balance is desirable in and of itself...
Blades Runner
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Vaults Vanquisher
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Shtopit wrote:tabstorm wrote:You imply that balance is desirable in and of itself...
It really is. The concept behind a game with various "classes" is that of having a number of different mechanics with which to solve problems and overcome difficulties in different ways. Difficulty is however normally set at a certain level, which is the one supposed to be entertaining, and, because of this, it should be the same for all of the classes.
In other words, one should be able to play a venom mage and a fighter with the same difficulty. Or worshipping Oka and Vehumet with the same difficulty, although the fact that many gods cater to specific audiences makes it more difficult to give them all-encompassing balance (I suppose that a minotaur fighter of Oka should be as capable as a deep elf conjurer of Vehumet). If one wants to have gods which do similar things, but of which one is easier (Trog vs Oka), it can work without ruining the game because a balanced alternative is present. However, if all gods are crazily different in strength, that's a bad signal, because I should be able to play a unique god like e.g. Chei or Dithmenos at standard difficulty, since their mechanics aren't available anywhere else.
Adding a button to set difficulty would be interesting (from 0 to 10, changing % of action success and monster health, with the current situation at 6), at least for offline play, because it would allow players to set the difficulty they find the most entertaining.
Tartarus Sorceror
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arandomperson12 wrote:I think I have read somewhere that the race/class combos are meant to be difficulty settings.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
Shtopit wrote:tabstorm wrote:You imply that balance is desirable in and of itself...
It really is.
Shtopit wrote:Difficulty is however normally set at a certain level, which is the one supposed to be entertaining, and, because of this, it should be the same for all of the classes.
Shtopit wrote:In other words, one should be able to play a venom mage and a fighter with the same difficulty.
Shtopit wrote:Or worshipping Oka and Vehumet with the same difficulty, although the fact that many gods cater to specific audiences makes it more difficult to give them all-encompassing balance
Shtopit wrote:(I suppose that a minotaur fighter of Oka should be as capable as a deep elf conjurer of Vehumet).
Shtopit wrote:If one wants to have gods which do similar things, but of which one is easier (Trog vs Oka), it can work without ruining the game because a balanced alternative is present.
Shtopit wrote:However, if all gods are crazily different in strength, that's a bad signal, because I should be able to play a unique god like e.g. Chei or Dithmenos at standard difficulty, since their mechanics aren't available anywhere else.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
Shtopit wrote:1. Narrative ≠ text
2. Lack of potable water doesn't mean that potable water isn't important. The game would be better if it were balanced, right now it isn't. Where did you read that it is? I wrote "It [=balance] really is [desirable]".
goodcoolguy wrote:If you haven't gotten Jiyva from an early random altar, you can't really appreciate how bad slime knights would be. The slimes eat all your items and kill all your monsters. You get to lair with half the usual amount of consumables, no equipment, and experience level 7. It's incredibly bad. Much worse than a chaos knight start. This would break the concept of streaking random combos, for example.
Crypt Cleanser
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elliptic wrote:On most characters an early Jiyva altar is just a trap
Tartarus Sorceror
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stickyfingers wrote:How would you then explain this?elliptic wrote:On most characters an early Jiyva altar is just a trap
Vaults Vanquisher
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arandomperson12 wrote:If you are going for 15 runes on a melee character, shouldn't you just go with TSO from the start? Okawaru's wrath might kill you.
Vaults Vanquisher
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Tartarus Sorceror
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arandomperson12 wrote:If you are going for 15 runes on a melee character, shouldn't you just go with TSO from the start? Okawaru's wrath might kill you.
Abyss Ambulator
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Shtopit wrote:tabstorm wrote:You imply that balance is desirable in and of itself...
It really is. The concept behind a game with various "classes" is that of having a number of different mechanics with which to solve problems and overcome difficulties in different ways. Difficulty is however normally set at a certain level, which is the one supposed to be entertaining, and, because of this, it should be the same for all of the classes.
In other words, one should be able to play a venom mage and a fighter with the same difficulty. Or worshipping Oka and Vehumet with the same difficulty, although the fact that many gods cater to specific audiences makes it more difficult to give them all-encompassing balance (I suppose that a minotaur fighter of Oka should be as capable as a deep elf conjurer of Vehumet). If one wants to have gods which do similar things, but of which one is easier (Trog vs Oka), it can work without ruining the game because a balanced alternative is present. However, if all gods are crazily different in strength, that's a bad signal, because I should be able to play a unique god like e.g. Chei or Dithmenos at standard difficulty, since their mechanics aren't available anywhere else.
Adding a button to set difficulty would be interesting (from 0 to 10, changing % of action success and monster health, with the current situation at 6), at least for offline play, because it would allow players to set the difficulty they find the most entertaining.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1698
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dynast wrote:Shtopit wrote:1. Narrative ≠ text
2. Lack of potable water doesn't mean that potable water isn't important. The game would be better if it were balanced, right now it isn't. Where did you read that it is? I wrote "It [=balance] really is [desirable]".
Everything you mentioned points to the contrary and you dont even try to demonstrate how it would be better if it was otherwise. So it is desirable that this game be umbalanced, which is why it is.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Shtopit wrote:Well, explain to me why an unbalanced game is better, since I have already exposed my reasons.
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