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ydeve wrote:I don't get these spells. The extra range doesn't feel like it's worth the double mp cost. Would IE and FE backgrounds miss them if they were removed?
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ydeve wrote:The extra range doesn't feel like it's worth the double mp cost.
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ydeve wrote:The extra range doesn't feel like it's worth the double mp cost.
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Sprucery wrote:ydeve wrote:The extra range doesn't feel like it's worth the double mp cost.
When you see the kobold with the disto dagger you really appreciate the better chance to kill it at range. Or that ogre with the GSC.
(The point is that there are many situations where you want to prevent the enemy from getting next to you.)
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MainiacJoe wrote: Throw Foo always does more damage than Freeze at any spellpower, though freeze is a one-school spell.
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MainiacJoe wrote:The advantage to Throw Foo is its range. Flame Tongue does more average damage than Throw Flame at spellpowers greater than 20, and always has much better accuracy. Throw Foo always does more damage than Freeze at any spellpower, though freeze is a one-school spell.
ydeve wrote:The thing is that neither of these (on FE at least) needs the extra range of throw flame. I agree with Blade here. I've never wished that I had more range as a FE (and I play them quite a bit). If you need more distance you'll know you'll need more distance, and conjure flame will work just fine. And before you get to where monsters will walk though flame clouds you have sticky flame, as well as flame tongue getting its increased range.
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dowan wrote:Throw flame is fantastic for killing orc wizards and priests at the edge of LOS. Throw frost is also good for the same reasons. Of course, if someone were to propose a more interesting spell that still filled the same niche, I wouldn't complain. They are very straightforward spells, and they're identical apart from element.
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ydeve wrote:dowan wrote:Throw flame is fantastic for killing orc wizards and priests at the edge of LOS. Throw frost is also good for the same reasons. Of course, if someone were to propose a more interesting spell that still filled the same niche, I wouldn't complain. They are very straightforward spells, and they're identical apart from element.
The thing is you don't need to kill orc priests and wizards at range. You can just run away and lure them around a corner and take them out with flame tongue or sticky flame. There are no early D monsters that cannot be handled by FE starting book sans throw flame.
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dowan wrote:ydeve wrote:dowan wrote:Throw flame is fantastic for killing orc wizards and priests at the edge of LOS. Throw frost is also good for the same reasons. Of course, if someone were to propose a more interesting spell that still filled the same niche, I wouldn't complain. They are very straightforward spells, and they're identical apart from element.
The thing is you don't need to kill orc priests and wizards at range. You can just run away and lure them around a corner and take them out with flame tongue or sticky flame. There are no early D monsters that cannot be handled by FE starting book sans throw flame.
What's your point? A spell doesn't need to be absolutely necessary for survival to be useful, and a full LOS attack is a niche that's nice to have filled, especially when dealing with enemies with their own full LOS attacks. Also, when you have sticky flame castable orc wizards and priests generally aren't a big deal anymore.
Nevertheless, what would you propose replacing them with? As you pointed out, they may be the absolutely most straightforward damage spells in the game, so if you've got something more interesting in mind, I'm sure people would be receptive.
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crate wrote:(I hate using conjure flame, especially early on, so I try pretty hard to avoid using it) so they don't care.
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ManiacJoe wrote:Flame Tongue does more average damage than Throw Flame at spellpowers greater than 20
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duvessa wrote:the instant you realize what the spell does is also the instant you never cast or memorize it again because it's an awful spell
can FE have not-awful spells please, like throw flame?
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MainiacJoe wrote:Back to the OP, I've been playng Cj lately and IMB and Dazzling Spray have a similar dynamic. DS is less MP, less noise, is always multi-target, has a hex effect that HD-based no less, and is much more efficient in damage per spellpower (DS maxes at 50 but IMB doesn't catch up in sheer damage output until 80 or so). But IMB is range 7, and DS is range 5, and if I'm reading this thread right, that's enough.
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Siegurt wrote:MainiacJoe wrote:Back to the OP, I've been playng Cj lately and IMB and Dazzling Spray have a similar dynamic. DS is less MP, less noise, is always multi-target, has a hex effect that HD-based no less, and is much more efficient in damage per spellpower (DS maxes at 50 but IMB doesn't catch up in sheer damage output until 80 or so). But IMB is range 7, and DS is range 5, and if I'm reading this thread right, that's enough.
Well, also Dazzling spray is two school vs only one for imb, so it takes more xp to get the same spell power (not twice as much, but more in any case)
I don't think the comparison is quite 1:1
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CanOfWorms wrote:Note that your spellpower for Dazzling Spray will be lower if you haven't trained Hexes. In that case it would be around 25 spellpower compared to IMB's 50, so your expected damage is 14.
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