Book amnesia should be more visible
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1776
Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57
Location: South Carolina
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
I'm not sure where else it should be.
Does ctrl-I do anything? That could give a list of memorized spells and offer to forget them, then ask if you want to destroy a book in inventory, use an amnesia scroll in inventory, walk to one of the books holding that spell, or walk to an amnesia scroll stack. That's clippy-esque in its handholding, but the OP doesn't make any proposals.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
- For this message the author sanka has received thanks: 3
- Arrhythmia, GlassGo, Sprucery
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 802
Joined: Sunday, 30th March 2014, 21:06
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have both book and scroll amnesia.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
xentronium wrote:sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have both book and scroll amnesia.
I've found it helpful in low scroll games where I have several duplicates of a spell in different books. Especially when I memorize a useless spell to build skill for a spell I can't memorize, and run out of scrolls to remove the spell. Well-traveled players may disagree, but it's useful for noobs and removing this function "adds nothing". Sorry that the existence of this ability causes you such pain.
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Barkeep
Posts: 1788
Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
- For this message the author archaeo has received thanks: 2
- Arrhythmia, Rast
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
No, but it's fun to use up extra spellbooks like this to save amnesia scrolls.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1694
Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
Yes, actually, I did have one game where I actually didn't have enough amnesia scrolls to change my spell list around like I wanted to. Whether functionally unlimited amnesias are desirable is unlikely however.
More often I do it 'just in case', for the same reason I drop piles of jerky, bread, royal jellies, and fruit all over the dungeon rather than just eating them on the spot. Because maybe this will be that one game where I run out of permafood...
- For this message the author dowan has received thanks:
- Arrhythmia
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
No more scrolls of amnesia.
Forgetting a spell removes that one spell from the book and changes the book description to "[adjective] damaged". The book is not destroyed until the last spell is removed from it.
Barkeep
Posts: 4435
Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
I guess I think book destruction is inherently more interesting than the scroll, especially when the scroll does the exact same thing as a god ability.
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 853
Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 18:39
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Barkeep
Posts: 4435
Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
johlstei wrote:The god ability changes things further though, in the sense that you can plan on infinite amnesia, and that lets you change your gameplan more seriously than "a lot of times, within reason". With sif you can do it for every branch or even individual tough enemies.
Well, the ability uses piety (and a fair amount of it) so it's at least kind of limited. And I have a really hard time imagining myself actually doing this; the number of good spells that I can reasonably cast is usually a much stricter limit than the number of spell slots I have.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1694
Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
Dungeon Master
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
Several times, yes.
If we had to remove one of book or scroll amnesia, I'd argue that book amnesia is more interesting (albeit more problematic for other projects people talk about, e.g. the 'goldification' of books); I'm not convinced that we need to remove either, however.
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
How is book amnesia more interesting? It's not like you're going to use it if you still want the book...
- For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
- Arrhythmia, sanka
Dungeon Master
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
I have been in situations where I destroyed books which I had some desire to keep around for later because I needed spell levels now; not often, but it has happened.
- For this message the author PleasingFungus has received thanks: 2
- Arrhythmia, njvack
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1774
Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Plus a typical thing you want to amnesia is your lower-level spells from your background's starting book. There are several of those and usually only one book, so book amnesia wouldn't be enough.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
83/108 recent wins (76%)
guides: safe tactics value of ac/ev/sh forum toxicity
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Learning a spell (from a book) removes the spell from the book and marks the book as damaged or worn or whatever. If you learn the final spell in a book, that destroys the book.
Special passive ability for Sif Muna followers in good standing: learning a spell from a book doesn't remove the spell from the book. This applies both to found and gifted books. No piety cost. Rationale: Sif Muna doesn't like it when books are damaged.
Kiku gives books, but doesn't care that you damage them to learn spells from them.
Vehumet's spells already don't come from books, so that's not relevant here.
Any character who knows spells can choose to forget a spell at any time as a special ability, regardless of the original source of the spell.
No more scrolls of amnesia.
Dungeon Master
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
Berder wrote:I'd prefer to have just scrolls of amnesia. The few times I've used book amnesia it was a bother to search around the dungeon for the optimal book to use for it, especially if I'm amnesia-ing more than one spell and each of my spells appear in multiple books. It was just too much effort for something that wasn't really fun.
This is a very reasonable point, and something I've noticed. (Our book UI is generally not that great; I've seen multiple people talk about stashing specifically so that they could see all memorizeable spells at a time, for example.)
Berder wrote:Plus a typical thing you want to amnesia is your lower-level spells from your background's starting book. There are several of those and usually only one book, so book amnesia wouldn't be enough.
This is kind of silly; 'not enough' is not the relevant concept!
- For this message the author PleasingFungus has received thanks:
- Arrhythmia
Vaults Vanquisher
Posts: 430
Joined: Saturday, 1st June 2013, 21:09
Location: Russia
Re: Book amnesia should be more visible
sanka wrote:Why it even exists? Have anyone had a game where amnesia scrolls would not be enough?
Or otherwise - have anyone had a game where magic books wouldn't enough for deleting spells?
I can't remember such game.
PleasingFungus wrote:This is a very reasonable point, and something I've noticed. (Our book UI is generally not that great; I've seen multiple people talk about stashing specifically so that they could see all memorizeable spells at a time, for example.)
I always do, an I thought everybody do.
A pile of books, and a pile of doublicates for amnesing spell.
Return to Game Design Discussion
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 72 guests