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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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KoboldLord wrote:real stairwells carved through cave networks can twist around as much as they need to before they get to the next set of usable space. It doesn't work like a house, which has an upper level intentionally built directly on top of a lower level with as little waste space as possible. When you're digging through pre-existing limestone caves or the like, you take what cavities you get no matter what your access tunnels end up having to do.
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Pollen_Golem wrote:A normal person can keep a rough multi-floor layout in their mind. Intuitive stair functionality (ie matching stairs) lets players plan a trek that visits unnecessary floors (e.g. D:5 to D:3 via D:2) to save time or avoid exclusion zones.
Pollen Golem wrote:Trapdoors also become useful for simply hurrying through cleared floors. Thing is, all of what I'm talking about is already possible. It's just something that virtually no human being can do without bogging down with pen and paper.
Pollen Golem wrote:So everybody puts on their blinders, shuts off their spacio-geometric cortex, and obeys the wisdom of Ctrl+G.
Pollen Golem wrote:Matching staircases introduce a modicum of tactics. For example, three adjacent down-stairs would be a relatively good impetus to quaff-ID for potion buffs before going down.
Pollen Golem wrote:So the whole reason devteam made stairs this way was to gloss over a coding challenge? Damn, this must harken back to Linley.
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KoboldLord wrote:Ah, so you object to the use of automation to deal with routine, non-challenging, non-threatening tasks. Good to know.
KoboldLord wrote:non-threatening
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Pollen_Golem wrote:Somebody actually believes the game is better off with nonmatching stairs, that it adds something?
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Siegurt wrote:Also if you want to know where a given staircase might go on the floor below/above and you've traversed it, you can simply hit Shift-X, use > (or <) to move your cursor to the staircase in question, then use ] (or [) to move the map to the level adjacent and your cursor will be on the square where the staircase goes. No pen & paper required.
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Sar wrote:Pollen_Golem wrote:Somebody actually believes the game is better off with nonmatching stairs, that it adds something?
why make a thread if you are not going to read what other people post anyway
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Sar wrote:
also "vaults"... means "every little piece of dungeon that is not randomly generated"
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Pollen_Golem wrote:Matching: like two boards superimposed with 3 holes drilled through them.
Nonmatching: like two boards apart with 3 nips each, in different places, with wires randomly pairing them up.
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Pollen_Golem wrote:Not a justification for using the more convoluted kind of stairs:
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Why does anyone need to justify it to you?
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Sandman25 wrote:What I learned from this discussion is that some players can appreciate color-coding of already visited doors for easy matching. It is possible in tiles, not sure about console. I mean when you take some stairs, both upstairs and downstairs change and become different from other stairs, they can have some sign in the middle (1,2,3?) or just different color.
Having stairs change color after first use can be useful anyway, I often check if I have already visited the stairs by X,<,[ or Ctrl-X if it's in my LoS.
Pollen_Golem wrote:vaults... stairs...
So, specifically the vaults which are closed-off rooms with a staircase or two inside?
Pollen_Golem wrote:The pros and cons about matching vs nonmatching stairs with regards to vaults, are very subjective IMO. And it doesn't pertain to 90%+ of the game's staircases.
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nicolae wrote:Pollen_Golem wrote:Not a justification for using the more convoluted kind of stairs:
Why does anyone need to justify it to you?
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Eyesburn wrote:In console stairs are marked by default, no need to change anything. Visited up-stairs are green, visited down-stairs are red and unvisited stairs are white coloured. When I switched to the webtiles, I had problem to notice that * symbol.
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That's really unnecessarily defensive. It's a fair question with a straightforward answer.
Pollen_Golem wrote:OK, the mystery of "where will I end up?" is gone right after you've peeked through the three down-staircases. Case closed.
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nicolae wrote:I suspect it has a lot to with how many traditional roguelikes have unmatched stairs.
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Pollen_Golem wrote:nicolae wrote:I suspect it has a lot to with how many traditional roguelikes have unmatched stairs.
It's exactly the moment they deviated from the traditional roguelike by having multiple stairs on a single floor that flabbergasts me.
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Pollen_Golem wrote:How do you not see the weirdness that results when you throw in a couple more staircases?
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njvack wrote:Are you looking for something else, or are we done here? Devs themselves don't chime in on every thread.
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Pollen_Golem wrote:"I don't have any trouble remembering where stairs go"-you remember which downstairs go to which upstairs? Ok, but there are 6 different ways to connect 2 inter-branch levels, none of them likelier than another. And there's a whole lot of levels. I do have trouble.
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