Mines Malingerer
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Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Mines Malingerer
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Tomb Titivator
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Abyss Ambulator
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Shoals Surfer
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dpeg wrote:Which item would you choose if forced to win a game of Crawl at gunpoint?
Tartarus Sorceror
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dpeg wrote:As you probably know, I am not a fan of all the Cheibriados dissing
Shoals Surfer
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duvessa wrote:This subforum is called "Dungeon Crawling Advice." I am going to give the best advice I have, not stroke people's egos.dpeg wrote:As you probably know, I am not a fan of all the Cheibriados dissing
pickled_heretic wrote:My first or second win ever was NaFi of Chei. Once I got past the early pre-lair hump I found the whole game to be so easy that my greatest challenge was to avoid tabbing myself to death. I didnt even use spells (not intentionally, I was just too lazy). Constriction is insane with chei stats and you can constrict the vast majority of things (pan lords etc.). The key to survival before you become literally invincible is using shields and having ranged options for when closing to melee is not practical. Also, judicious use of slouch.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Snake Sneak
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Siegurt wrote:Because the most basic tactics in the game is being able to walk away.
Being able to walk at the same speed or faster than a monster is *extremely* powerful, and the fewer monsters you can walk at the same speed or faster than, the larger the penalty you're taking, what's more the slower you are than a monster, the larger disadvantage you're at.
Unarmed Combat 27.0
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Unarmed Combat 27.0
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Sar wrote:Because "+6 boots of running" is a fixedart naga barding "lightning scales", since randart boots can't get running ego.
Crypt Cleanser
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diviton wrote:Sar wrote:Because "+6 boots of running" is a fixedart naga barding "lightning scales", since randart boots can't get running ego.
I see. That makes sense. I didn't know randarts couldn't get running.
Thanks for the clarification.
Vestibule Violator
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Crypt Cleanser
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dpeg wrote:Which item would you choose if forced to win a game of Crawl at gunpoint?
Abyss Ambulator
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duvessa wrote:See the thing is, basically every combo is just as invincible once it reaches lair. What you are noticing is simply the fact that the game is very easy past the first few dungeon levels.
Shoals Surfer
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damiac wrote:duvessa wrote:See the thing is, basically every combo is just as invincible once it reaches lair. What you are noticing is simply the fact that the game is very easy past the first few dungeon levels.
Do you actually play this game past D10? I can get a lot of crappy characters to lair, then things get harder. Your advice boils down to "Get to lair. Win". I guess the viewpoint of "only pre-lair matters" explains a lot of the things you say that make no sense. Chei is worse than no god at all, pre lair, ranged weapons are incredibly OP, pre lair, having necromutation castable is worse than not having it, pre lair... it all starts to make sense
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Shoals Surfer
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damiac wrote:Anyway, I thought it was pretty well agreed zot5 is the most dangerous part of the game. I would consider that "Post lair"
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Siegurt wrote:Because the most basic tactics in the game is being able to walk away.
Being able to walk at the same speed or faster than a monster is *extremely* powerful, and the fewer monsters you can walk at the same speed or faster than, the larger the penalty you're taking, what's more the slower you are than a monster, the larger disadvantage you're at.
Being a naga is a movement speed disadvantage, Using Chei is a movement speed disadvantage, taking both penalties in combination is MUCH worse than taking either one individually.
It's a larger disadvantage than permanent Stasis (e.x. Fo), or permanent -Cast (e.x. Trog), or being unable to use wands or equipment (E.x. 0.13 Fe).
Additionally, while being a NaXX^Chei gives you a larger penalty than being any other sort of Chei worshipper, it gives you no additional benefits (Well, other than the possibly dubious benefit of being able to gain piety slightly faster)
It's not that it's an unwinnable combo, it's just that you're accepting one of the largest net penalties available in the game.
Unarmed Combat 27.0
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dirtywick wrote:Siegurt wrote:Because the most basic tactics in the game is being able to walk away.
Being able to walk at the same speed or faster than a monster is *extremely* powerful, and the fewer monsters you can walk at the same speed or faster than, the larger the penalty you're taking, what's more the slower you are than a monster, the larger disadvantage you're at.
Being a naga is a movement speed disadvantage, Using Chei is a movement speed disadvantage, taking both penalties in combination is MUCH worse than taking either one individually.
It's a larger disadvantage than permanent Stasis (e.x. Fo), or permanent -Cast (e.x. Trog), or being unable to use wands or equipment (E.x. 0.13 Fe).
Additionally, while being a NaXX^Chei gives you a larger penalty than being any other sort of Chei worshipper, it gives you no additional benefits (Well, other than the possibly dubious benefit of being able to gain piety slightly faster)
It's not that it's an unwinnable combo, it's just that you're accepting one of the largest net penalties available in the game.
You can't walk away anyway so it doesn't matter how bad you are at it.
Na get the Chei powers and stats faster, a powerful free melee ability based off of stats, have a large hp pool, an innate ranged attack that costs no skill to use, and lower shield skill requirement. These are all of particular benefit to a chei worshiper. Opinions on Chei aside, Na have what a chei needs with a downside of being bad at what you're going to be bad at.
Shoals Surfer
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dirtywick wrote:You can't walk away anyway so it doesn't matter how bad you are at it..
Ziggurat Zagger
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diviton wrote:dirtywick wrote:You can't walk away anyway so it doesn't matter how bad you are at it.
Na get the Chei powers and stats faster, a powerful free melee ability based off of stats, have a large hp pool, an innate ranged attack that costs no skill to use, and lower shield skill requirement. These are all of particular benefit to a chei worshiper. Opinions on Chei aside, Na have what a chei needs with a downside of being bad at what you're going to be bad at.
I agree with this. Neither Naga or Chei worshippers are going to be running away from things, so the fact that their weaknesses overlap is nice. I recently won with a NaWr of Chei and it was a surprisingly easy combo. Naga breath dealt with a lot of early threats and since you rack up piety super fast as a Naga, you have huge stat boosts before you even hit Lair. After that, you just have to not screw up since every spell is castable with all that Int.
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Barkeep
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sandman25 wrote:At low piety Na of Chei is not much worse than Na of any other god.
Sandman25 wrote:At high piety Na has +15 Dex which is equivalent of 2.5 levels in Stealth (with high Stealth factor of Na 18) so I am sure there are situations where Na of Chei survives while Na of other god does not (banishment, paralysis, mutations). Na of Chei at max piety is much stronger than any other Na so there will be less fights which it should avoid. So I have mixed feelings, I don't see how Na of Chei is much harder than Na of Nemelex/Oka/Ash (these gods I tried with Na).
Barkeep
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Sandman25 wrote:At low piety Na of Chei is not much worse than Na of any other god.
At high piety Na has +15 Dex which is equivalent of 2.5 levels in Stealth (with high Stealth factor of Na 18) so I am sure there are situations where Na of Chei survives while Na of other god does not (banishment, paralysis, mutations).
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sandman25 wrote:2.5 extra levels in Stealth can allow to put exclusion on Erolcha, for example.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Sandman25 wrote:2.5 extra levels in Stealth can allow to put exclusion on Erolcha, for example.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Siegurt wrote:Sandman25 wrote:2.5 extra levels in Stealth can allow to put exclusion on Erolcha, for example.
And Oka gives you 5 extra levels of stealth at * for a minor piety and MP cost...
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Sandman25 wrote:2.5 extra levels in Stealth can allow to put exclusion on Erolcha, for example.
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Temple Termagant
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dpeg wrote:As you probably know, I am not a fan of all the Cheibriados dissing, but daggaz reply made me think of a fun tavern game:
List an item that you think is a game-winner (for you, not for the best Crawl player in the world).
How many of us can pull of a near-sure win when finding +6 rElec running boots on D:1?
Which item would you choose if forced to win a game of Crawl at gunpoint?
Tartarus Sorceror
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Shoals Surfer
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dpeg wrote:As you probably know, I am not a fan of all the Cheibriados dissing, but daggaz reply made me think of a fun tavern game:
List an item that you think is a game-winner (for you, not for the best Crawl player in the world).
How many of us can pull of a near-sure win when finding +6 rElec running boots on D:1?
Which item would you choose if forced to win a game of Crawl at gunpoint?
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