KoboldLord wrote:Why shouldn't a minotaur be better at fighting than a deep elf? A deep elf caster will get earlier access to literally every single spell that can generate compared to a minotaur caster. Why should the minotaur fighter's racial hp bonus be negligible compared to the fighting hp they both share?
The minotaur is already a much much better fighter, because of the racial aptitudes, especially the fighting aptitude. So a minotaur will reach the minimum weapon delay and higher fighting skills-hp earlier. Later on - well, a minotaur can train spellcasting skills up to 27. She will be weaker, but this says more about IQ is a much more important stat for spellcasting than str and dex for fighting - so the deep elf will keep more advantage, even if the racial mp modifier is not important late game.
I simply feel that double penalties - bad fighting aptitude and much less hp from the skill is not good. Some transfer from the skill hp to racial is ok - but affecting skill hp by race is too much. A deep elf berserker is not easy (altough maybe I'm not a good player), and altough I don't think it should be easier, it also should not be even harder. Also, there are low hp good fighters now - kenku supposed to be a good fighter, as Jeremiah has pointed out. They are still much weaker fighters than a minotaur with the current system.
KoboldLord wrote:sanka wrote:With fragile casters I usually do not start to train fighting early because I want the extra 3 hp immedately, but because it's much easier to train early.
This is not true, and it would be nice if people would stop saying this.
There is a minor training malus if you have other skills trained, but you get more xp per kill later in the game and you spend more on individual instances of training. You also have better equipment that lets you safely melee more types of monsters. The xp pool has never been the main factor that restricts training of fighting; the more limited resource is the supply of rats and bats that you can safely beat up. Later on you can start fighting yaks and minor demons in melee, both of which are plentiful.
I did not mean the xp penalty - sorry for my expressions, english is not my first language. I usually start to train fighting early because early on you can find a lot of rats and such, and with a good weapon you can easily kill them. Later on there are a lot of dangerous monsters. Maybe it's not an optimal startegy, but with a fragile caster I usually start training fighting as soon as I find a good branded short blade or something. With some skills in the weapon skill and some fighting skills you can kill a lot more monsters, so training fighting further is easier. Yaks are dangerous even at level 15 if you have no skill. They can do a lot of damage sometimes, and you can never now what monster comes in the next corner to join the fight. (Of course a good caster has escape options - so it's possible to do, but I find it easier to start earlier.) And altough there are a lot of easy monster later, there are a lot of hard ones also, and I usually do not want to train fighting even with a rat when a dragon is near.
Maybe I'm wrong - I'm not a very good player. But all I wanted to say is that there are reasons to start training fighting sooner than you really need the hp bonus - to have it when you need it. With a deep elf wizard I usually do not miss the extra hp from fighting till level 15 or so, or at least it's not very hard to reach without any fighting training at all. But usually I find that it's much more cumbersome to train fighting then, and not beacuse there's not enough xp. (Of course it helps if I play with an ice caster - when ozucubu's armour is strong, it gives enough protection with regeneration to start training fighting later.)