New weapons proposal

[Roderic]

I've come up with a few ideas to make use of the v evocation of reaching

a) Urumi aka coiled sword. It's a blade swung like a whip. It would be the reaching weapon in the category of long swords.

b) Meteor. This Chinese weapon is a long chain with a ball at one extreme. Basically, it is a reaching flail.

I don't know at all if different weapons convey different advantages depending on the enemy the weapon is used against. Since polearms have acquired reaching capacity but only on thrusting in case of and in slashing in case of halderds and naginata, I found it interesting to complement other types of weapons with reaching capacity, although rarer than other.

Moreover, I would like to know if polearms have a malus in case of defense respect to swords or maces. Historically accurate, carrying a spear or a halberd renders the user defenseless in close combat once the head of the weapon was passed, and halberds are cumbersome weapons to manage due to the long pole and the heavy head. I don't now how these issues are implemented, if any.

In addition another weapon I would like to see in Crawl:

c) Bolas. A throwing weapon to held enemies as the net does. The difference is that these ones can reach longer distances with accuracy than nets and they can be used by tiny individuals such as halflings or spriggans. It would work to creatures with legs, though.

[Ashenai]

c) Bolas. A throwing weapon to held enemies as the net does. The difference is that these ones can reach longer distances with accuracy than nets and they can be used by tiny individuals such as halflings or spriggans. It would work to creatures with legs, though.

I'm not a huge fan of the other ideas, but this I do like. Nets are cool, and an upgraded, non-terrible version would be interesting. Throwing characters could use some extra options.

[jejorda2]

I like the "if it can't wear boots, the bolas don't work" idea. It makes a real advantage to nets over bolas, but still gives more options to some of the small races who are so good at throwing.

[Blade]

It would also be reasonable to argue against bolas degrading; instead of tearing yourself away from them, you would just disentangle your feet. It would be a very nice alternate option to nets, I think.

[mumra]

There's also a bolas spider idea on the Spiders Nest page: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:spider#monsters

I do like the other OP ideas, particularly the ball-and-chain

[Ashenai]

I do like the other OP ideas, particularly the ball-and-chain

I dislike all ideas that can be summed up as "like <weapon_type>, but with a <different_weapon_type>" (in this case, "like polearms, but with a mace.") I don't think I ever heard anyone argue that the weapon types need to be more homogenous. Polearms, at least, finally have their own gimmick, I don't think we need Maces (or Long Blades) copying them.

[Roderic]

This is the reason I used "rarely" for these reaching weapons... but now I am thinking of them as cool weapons for a unique, like the flaming whip of Pikel or the lajatang of Agnes.

[umrain]

I think a reaching sword and flail could work as special artefacts. I don't think they need to be tied to a particular unique. Reaching is cool enough that either of these could be made comparable with existing non-randarts/fixedarts when you were lucky enough to find one of them.

[roctavian]

Reaching sword and reaching flail could definitely spice up some uniques. Like Urug could go for a reaching flail, but it may make him too much like Grum.

Now that Polearms have inherent reach, could it be possible to implement a throwing weapon with inherent returning? I'm envisioning, perhaps, a boomerang weapon with base damage 3 (placing it just a smidge above darts in power) and a chakram with base damage 6 (same as a sling bullet). Chance of returning would scale with Throwing skill. They would deal slashing damage, which currently no ranged weapon does.

I worry, however, that Throwing is already too powerful compared to Bows and Crossbows. Or at least, Throwing already presents the most options out of all the ranged skills -- high damage with javelins, entanglement with nets, poison and all sorts of stuff with needles, and ease of early-game training with the throwability of floor trash. Maybe new types of arrows and bolts are called for? Am I losing it with too many ideas?

[nicolae]

Now that Polearms have inherent reach, could it be possible to implement a throwing weapon with inherent returning? I'm envisioning, perhaps, a boomerang weapon with base damage 3 (placing it just a smidge above darts in power) and a chakram with base damage 6 (same as a sling bullet). Chance of returning would scale with Throwing skill. They would deal slashing damage, which currently no ranged weapon does.

I do like this idea.

I worry, however, that Throwing is already too powerful compared to Bows and Crossbows. Or at least, Throwing already presents the most options out of all the ranged skills -- high damage with javelins, entanglement with nets, poison and all sorts of stuff with needles, and ease of early-game training with the throwability of floor trash. Maybe new types of arrows and bolts are called for? Am I losing it with too many ideas?

Throwing means you don't get any launcher bonuses (brands, enchantments, etc.) at the expense of that variety though.

[TehDruid]

c) Bolas. A throwing weapon to held enemies as the net does. The difference is that these ones can reach longer distances with accuracy than nets and they can be used by tiny individuals such as halflings or spriggans. It would work to creatures with legs, though.

And if you entangle a minotaur with them, you take them to your ranch, to brand their ass.

Joking aside, I quite like this.

In the light of the latest changes in trunk, with all Polearms getting innate reaching, I would suggest you give all whips reaching, too, and if it seems OP, then give them a -1 to dmg like with 1-h and 1-and-a-half-h polearms. They can be extended anyway, so it makes sense.

Additionally, a ball and chain M&F weapon with innate reaching sounds very cool. It should have high attack delay though (like 170%), so that it would require more skill investment to use efficiently. And i'd really love to see a unique carry one of these babies as its trademark weapon.

[nicolae]

The bots are almost starting to make sense now...

I did have an idea on weapon differentiation, though: maces and other heavy blunt weapons ignore some of the target's AC based on the weapon's base damage, enchantment, strength, and Maces and Flails skill. Whips could ignore EV similarly, based on dexterity and M&F.

[Roderic]

Yet another idea (remember that some of them should be rare rather than usual)

d) Pavise: It is a very large shield usually carried on back to be placed in front of an archer or crossbowman. Basically it is a portable obstacle to allow shield protection against ranged monsters while you are also shooting them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavise

[Sealer]

Yet another idea (remember that some of them should be rare rather than usual)

d) Pavise: It is a very large shield usually carried on back to be placed in front of an archer or crossbowman. Basically it is a portable obstacle to allow shield protection against ranged monsters while you are also shooting them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavise

I'm against including any exotic weapons/shields/armour until a differentiation similar to polearms is done to other weapon types. Bolas may pass since throwing ammo is a huge issue unless worshipping one of the weapon gifting gods (not so much for other ranged weapons)

[Galefury]

I did have an idea on weapon differentiation, though: maces and other heavy blunt weapons ignore some of the target's AC based on the weapon's base damage, enchantment, strength, and Maces and Flails skill.

They already do. The property responsible for it is called damage. High base damage weapons are already much more useful on high AC targets.

[twelwe]

I really don't think giving reaching to other weapon types is the buff melee could use... I typed up a massive weapon overhaul on Something Awful forums a month ago, but it is very far from being polished. If anyone cares to read it, here is the link http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t397213974

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

I really don't think giving reaching to other weapon types is the buff melee could use... I typed up a massive weapon overhaul on Something Awful forums a month ago, but it is very far from being polished. If anyone cares to read it, here is the link http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t397213974

Perhaps you should copy it to a Pasebin server and link to the copy here? SomethingAwful forum topics tend to age, and when they go to the archives, most people cannot see them.