Tomb Titivator
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Tomb Titivator
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Snake Sneak
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Confidence Interval wrote:Though if you find yourself there you may well conclude that you have been emmerded, to misuse a French term.
Tomb Titivator
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Snake Sneak
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Confidence Interval wrote:Though if you find yourself there you may well conclude that you have been emmerded, to misuse a French term.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Sporkman wrote:It would also completely break the game. People WILL level them to the point of having 27 in every skill. Pointless, but people will do it. And when they get there, the game's balance - and challenge - will be almost nonexistent.
Snake Sneak
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Arrhythmia wrote:Sporkman wrote:It would also completely break the game. People WILL level them to the point of having 27 in every skill. Pointless, but people will do it. And when they get there, the game's balance - and challenge - will be almost nonexistent.
People do this anyway, for races that aren't Dg. I've seen it done with Na, Mu, and Dj.
Confidence Interval wrote:Though if you find yourself there you may well conclude that you have been emmerded, to misuse a French term.
Shoals Surfer
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Tomb Titivator
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Spider Stomper
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Abyss Ambulator
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Spider Stomper
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Vestibule Violator
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Swamp Slogger
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dck wrote:If some self-worshipping piety minigame is added to demigods I'd like it to be easy to circumvent because while maybe cool, I can't see it staying interesting enough for it to be something every character of one species has to do every game.
Vestibule Violator
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Swamp Slogger
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Dungeon Master
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Ziggurat Zagger
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It does certainly frustrate me how people continue to comment on it without actually understanding anything about it, but then I've learned to ignore this by now
Dungeon Master
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crate wrote:It does certainly frustrate me how people continue to comment on it without actually understanding anything about it, but then I've learned to ignore this by now
This is because these people (like me) do not understand at all why any change to demigods is desired, especially a change that takes their one defining feature (no gods) and replaces it with something that is very like a god.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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minmay wrote:mumra is just trying to make you go away. It's exactly like other gods, complete with a piety meter, conducts, and Xom-like creating monsters adjacent to you (often with 40+ HD) every few hundred turns. Really the only unique thing aside from the flavour fluff in the ^ screen is that you're not allowed to renounce religion.
Spider Stomper
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Shoals Surfer
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rosstin wrote:Jeez, you guys are hard to please. I thought the proposal was awesome. It's not terribly intrusive and you get really cool flavour. If you hate that stuff you can just ignore it without much consequence.
Vestibule Violator
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Dungeon Master
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minmay wrote:The planned future version doesn't involve a piety system or conducts?mumra wrote:minmay wrote:mumra is just trying to make you go away. It's exactly like other gods, complete with a piety meter, conducts, and Xom-like creating monsters adjacent to you (often with 40+ HD) every few hundred turns. Really the only unique thing aside from the flavour fluff in the ^ screen is that you're not allowed to renounce religion.
This is why comparisons to the current branch aren't helpful.
Dungeon Master
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Swamp Slogger
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dpeg wrote:Complaining about too hard uniques at this stage is ludicrous.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tomb Titivator
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crate wrote:In addition, adding a religious flavour the the demigod species is actually completely against what the current flavour of the species is ... which is that you have no god and nothing to do with religions at all.
Dis Charger
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crate wrote:I'm still really confused about why demigods should have this change.
I mean mountain dwarves were optional, something you could completely bypass. Obviously, they were removed. So clearly things being completely optional does not mean they are a part of crawl worth keeping or adding. Personally I feel the same should happen to labyrinths (and in fact I have removed them from my crawl via making them effectively impossible to find if you use my rcfile).
As a player I don't really care very much about the change since I will just make the portals inaccessible in the same way I did labyrinths (well I will probably give it a try once, I did that even for forest branch). I would like to know if there's an actual reason for this though, since I really like the way demigods are right now and I have no understanding at all of what this proposed change adds that is actually good. In addition, adding a religious flavour the the demigod species is actually completely against what the current flavour of the species is ... which is that you have no god and nothing to do with religions at all.
Tomb Titivator
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Dungeon Master
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Dungeon Master
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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crate wrote:if you change humans you are insane, they are the best race in all of crawl
Barkeep
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mumra wrote:The point here is that there is never a problem with considering options, and frankly most of us don't care whether players think we're insane or not.
Shoals Surfer
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khalil wrote:The flavor of the demigods is that they are going to ascend to godhood eventually and the gods refuse to help a potential competitor.
This change will just add mechanics to that flavor.
dpeg wrote:A lot of the Demigod proposal is by me.
but whereas piety is a measure of your devotion to your god, the Demigod's bar is a measure of the number of followers they have.
as with all portal vaults... You can completely bypass the new feature
the worshippers counter gives you nothing
Again the conducts are very different: a god's conducts typically limit your play in some fashion, whereas these do not, they are just a yardstick to measure progress with your worshippers. If you can't see that this is completely different to a god
frankly most of us don't care
Vestibule Violator
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Dis Charger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Shoals Surfer
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I know a lot of people don't like changes in things they like(including me).
There's a simple solution for the "demigods are perfect, don't change anything about them" camp... Don't upgrade.
And you might be right about "this entire proposal is being designed and implemented by people who don't play demigods, for people who don't play demigods", but then again, now they might want to try them out.
Galefury wrote:Maybe if you don't understand what people are saying
Mumra and dpeg have both improved crawl quite a lot in the past, so maybe give them the benefit of the doubt.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Volteccer_Jack wrote:If they don't limit your play in some fashion, then what DO they do?!
Shoals Surfer
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Volteccer_Jack wrote:A portal is not a conduct just like a godgift lajatang is not a conduct.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Shoals Surfer
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mumra wrote:To some extent we have to balance the needs of both experienced and new players. With Demigods we have a situation where (in general) experienced players are very happy with Demigods and want no change, whereas new players are somewhat underwhelmed by them. This is itself is not a reason to demand change, but it certainly presents a case for considering options.
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