Table of Contents

This page is for feedback and suggestions regarding the demigods branch. To build this branch for testing yourself, set up your environment as described in INSTALL.txt and run the following commands

git checkout demigods

and then run make as you normally would.


  • with the current hd of roughly player XL*4/3 (plus a bit more) minions provide a lot of experience, able to cause gain of multiple levels (both XL and skill) reaching level 27 by vaults
  • minions from some gods are notably weaker than others generally those without spells, with the exception of Trog
  • mid-to-high hd minions are more then happy to stand in conjured flame
    • This is a problem with AI generally, I'm not sure what to do about it; suggestions welcome. Of course we don't want all monsters to strictly avoid flame, but maybe intelligent ones could be better at avoiding it.
      • Actually it's worse, they are willing to stand in a flame with a “harmless” monster between you and it and burn themselves to death
    • I think if they have access to a ranged attack (reaching, spells, (x)bows) they should use that
  • Fighting ghouls in melee sucks especially when they're hd ~40+
  • Control blink doesn't really work as a monster spell
  • Some minion races are much harder than others particularly ghouls, trolls, minotaurs and vampires
  • Zin's Minions are really annoying without some good MR artifacts
  • Minions force you to use consumables (!curing for Zin and ?Tele, !HW for everyone which is good) but don't leave you with many for other threats
    • this will be amended somewhat by loot
  • There is somewhat of a power spiral in that if you get a minion a low level (usually from getting lots of uniques) this raises your piety and notoriety and thus increase your chances of another minion, causing a spiral. This only really matters for the early game as later on your kills of the minions reduces your notoriety.
  • The frequency minion appear is good, not too often, but often enough that you feel like more than just a human.(Does create paranoia with no warning)


  • reduce minion hd (and hence XP) and increase the amount and quality of items they drop
  • let Makleb minions have destructive spells to fit the theme and dilute the summons (this will be less bad now that summoners are dismissed when their master dies)
  • give some (probably about 100 turns) warning before summoning a minion (otherwise you can be in the middle of donning/removing armour or memorising a spell) and lose the one turn you get
  • Possibly tie the amount of warning you get to piety (and other information like what god is sending the minion and (maybe (some))spells)
  • Disable minions in Hell (we already have hell effects) and Ziggurats (blowing your cover might not be so fun)
    • Even with the portal idea Still probably a good idea. Not good to give players a free ticket out of a nasty zig floor or hell. Probably also disable on unique pan lord floors and holy pan. And timed portals, getting food from minion corpses in Lab is silly.
    • I think should stick to just main branches; i.e. no hells, pan, abyss, portals, zigs, bazaars.
    • I wouldn't be averse to having it in pan (defiantly not special ones), otherwise this might encourage/allow getting piety/notoriety in pan and returning to D to get more minions (not that this is any worse than pan scumming, just even more boring). Either way we need to explain this clearly to the player
    • Don't let minions get paralysis, it's not fun.


  • Ely sent a Demonspawn against me ( now TSO and Zin as well)
  • “Greeting” message contains references to “It” if minion spawns out of LoS ,as in “It, dispatch this whatever!” (usually as a result of you having cast a cloud spell)
  • Player death messages are along the lines of ”… [slain] by [name] the [title] the [species] … created by [god]” shoud be ”… [slain] by [name] the [title] ( a [species]) … created by [god]”
  • Minion timers are NOT reset after you die, Meaning that if you start a new game you will lose piety after about ~100 turns
  • minion timers are NOT reset if your allies get the kill
  • In soviet Russia Demigod player ghosts worship you
  • Removing an amulet of faith can cause a message like ”[your name] seems less interested in you”
  • Some monsters are being generated with spells they cant use, such as berserk on a ghoul, regeneration on a mummy
  • even at hd 40+ sticks to snakes is summoning no nastier than adders


I'll respond to everything down here rather than individual points, since many points are actually related. Firstly though, thanks for the excellent and thorough feedback, and there are quite a number of bugs here I wasn't at all aware of.

Basically there are quite a few problems with how the minions are currently implemented, and sorting these problems (by using ghost_demon for the minions instead of the racial base monster types, and generally finishing some things off) should deal with a large number of the issues.

The HD certainly should be much lower, if they were all set up reasonably in other ways (having items, and none-broken spell sets) they'd be more the appropriate level of challenge and a sensible HD.

Yes high level spells and high HD sounds better than mid-low spells and ludicrous HD (be warned HD ~45 shatter can do well over 150 damage)

If XP is still too much we could reduce it a bit for these, but it is probably mainly due to the ludicrous HD. Having to use consumables doesn't really sound like a problem, you will be getting loot to compensate this.

No it's only a problem if you have to spend lot of consumables on minions and don't have much left over for other use, getting loot should be able to compensate for this.

It's also worth mention that the final design now is to actually have a portal appear rather than spawning the actual minion need the player. So we can do some things in this portal vault that would be harder to pull off effectively just in the dungeon; e.g. spawning minions with god-appropriate bands.

Good this will fix the donning armour/memorising paranoia

Spell lists could also do with a lot of refining. There is the problem that I attempted to procedurally assign spells based on various rules but really there are too many special cases about which spells are usable by what, and managing the functions of the different spell slots is tricky too. Instead I just need to specify a list of ok spells for each god, and scale these up in a more managed way with minion level.

Could use player ghost spell selecting code (order of spells to search from) and use a random index into that array (dependent on HD) with variation by gods

mumra 2013-07-10 08:27

Thanks I'll keep posting things of note here. Can't wait for the updates. — Grandiloquent Gentleman 2013-07-10 16:49

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dcss/brainstorm/species/demigod_feedback.txt · Last modified: 2013-11-13 08:42 by Grandiloquent Gentleman
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