0006137: Green Crystal and Abyss Walls - Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup Tracker

(0019787)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-08-31 09:06

Very nice crystals.
But as I've found out, it gets messy with shadows if tile has open space in corners. They applies to the tiles as if they were solid 32x32 squares, so in corners shadows do not stick with walls.

(0019788)
ontoclasm (developer)
2012-08-31 09:52

Well, here's a version with filled-in corners if necessary.

(0019800)
infiniplex (reporter)
2012-09-01 07:17

It seems kind of strange that the green crystal walls look like they are made of giant blocks to me. However, I assume this is because they are supposed to look sort of like stone walls (which also bug me), and I definitely think they are much better than the current tiles.

You should also consider drawing a few variations: metal walls look OK with the same tile (presumably they are mass-produced somewhere), but the identical green crystal feel too exact to me.

(0019802)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-01 13:54
edited on: 2012-09-01 13:55

The crystals are often used as decorations with one or few tiles. Or as a 'special room' walls. We do not have large arrays of crystals in game, so I think it's very good choice to make them as one block.

Also I've tested them in game. The crystals looks great, but the shadows kinda spoils the picture (see preview). I'd like to remember edlothiol about this experimental shadows (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=3646&type=bug) [^] he tried once. And although I think that they are too thick, I very much like the blured edge. If this blur can be applyed to current shadows it would be perfect.

(0019805)
Galefury (updater)
2012-09-01 16:52

There are a few vaults with lots of green crystal, for example one of the Lom Lobon vaults. But I think the blocks look okay.

(0019806)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 17:03

white_noise, if your shadows in the game actually look like that, something is wrong. See this screenshot for how it should look: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/tiles_screenshot_new_dungeon.png [^]

(0019808)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 17:33

We also need the usual colour variations of the green crystal walls. The automatic recolouring is much too limited to do this; it can only replace one hue at a time, which works for images that only use one (like the old crystal walls), but not this one.

(0019809)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 17:40

And by the way, the version with transparent corners looks fine to me.

(0019814)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-01 19:03

Any ideas how can I fix my shadows?

(0019815)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 19:06

Do they look like that in an unmodified Crawl installation?

(0019816)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-01 19:13

I've just tried unmodified 0.11-a0-3198-g6e5327a and it looks fine.
But how can I mess shadows by changing some tiles in png?

(0019817)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 19:15
edited on: 2012-09-01 19:16

The shadows are images in wall.png. You probably deleted the transparency or just overwrote them in black while editing it.

(They're the second-to-last tile in wall.png.)

(0019818)
white_noise (reporter)
2012-09-01 19:21

Oh. You are right. I did accidentally replace them with black background. Thanks.

(0019819)
ontoclasm (developer)
2012-09-01 19:35

Actually, this crystal only uses one hue, but I can see how the automatic script might make a mess of things, particularly on the bright colors, so I'll make all the variations.

(0019820)
ontoclasm (developer)
2012-09-01 20:36

Okay, color variations done.

(0019821)
edlothiol (developer)
2012-09-01 20:40

By hue, I mean a specific H value in an HSV colour. In the old tile, [almost] all the green shades are hue 120, only differing in brightness. The recolouring code just replaces specific H values (keeping S and V intact, of course). I could maybe add a way to shift the hue of the complete tile, if that's just what you're doing; if the recolouring is more involved, we'll just use the handmade variants.
(I don't particularly buy the argument that the automatically generated colour variations are easier to maintain after seeing this -- if the tile is changed, the parameters for the recolouring would almost always also need to be adapted.)

(0019831)
KiloByte (manager)
2012-09-02 01:54

If you want shadows to be skipped in some configurations (like diagonally from crystal walls), there's no problem in that.

(0019832)
infiniplex (reporter)
2012-09-02 02:16

white_noise: there are large arrays of green crystal in the game. Vaults:7-8 sometimes generates with green crystal walls.

(0019833)
KiloByte (manager)
2012-09-02 02:23

There are certain large vaults built of nothing but green crystal.

There's also a crystal cavern base layout, but that one uses a crystal tile of its own ("emerald", without a 3D look).

(0019838)
KiloByte (manager)
2012-09-02 03:45

Abyssal walls are in.

Notes
(0019787) white_noise (reporter) 2012-08-31 09:06	Very nice crystals. But as I've found out, it gets messy with shadows if tile has open space in corners. They applies to the tiles as if they were solid 32x32 squares, so in corners shadows do not stick with walls.

(0019788) ontoclasm (developer) 2012-08-31 09:52	Well, here's a version with filled-in corners if necessary.

(0019800) infiniplex (reporter) 2012-09-01 07:17	It seems kind of strange that the green crystal walls look like they are made of giant blocks to me. However, I assume this is because they are supposed to look sort of like stone walls (which also bug me), and I definitely think they are much better than the current tiles. You should also consider drawing a few variations: metal walls look OK with the same tile (presumably they are mass-produced somewhere), but the identical green crystal feel too exact to me.

(0019802) white_noise (reporter) 2012-09-01 13:54 edited on: 2012-09-01 13:55	The crystals are often used as decorations with one or few tiles. Or as a 'special room' walls. We do not have large arrays of crystals in game, so I think it's very good choice to make them as one block. Also I've tested them in game. The crystals looks great, but the shadows kinda spoils the picture (see preview). I'd like to remember edlothiol about this experimental shadows (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=3646&type=bug) [^] he tried once. And although I think that they are too thick, I very much like the blured edge. If this blur can be applyed to current shadows it would be perfect.

(0019805) Galefury (updater) 2012-09-01 16:52	There are a few vaults with lots of green crystal, for example one of the Lom Lobon vaults. But I think the blocks look okay.

(0019806) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 17:03	white_noise, if your shadows in the game actually look like that, something is wrong. See this screenshot for how it should look: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/tiles_screenshot_new_dungeon.png [^]

(0019808) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 17:33	We also need the usual colour variations of the green crystal walls. The automatic recolouring is much too limited to do this; it can only replace one hue at a time, which works for images that only use one (like the old crystal walls), but not this one.

(0019809) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 17:40	And by the way, the version with transparent corners looks fine to me.

(0019814) white_noise (reporter) 2012-09-01 19:03	Any ideas how can I fix my shadows?

(0019815) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 19:06	Do they look like that in an unmodified Crawl installation?

(0019816) white_noise (reporter) 2012-09-01 19:13	I've just tried unmodified 0.11-a0-3198-g6e5327a and it looks fine. But how can I mess shadows by changing some tiles in png?

(0019817) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 19:15 edited on: 2012-09-01 19:16	The shadows are images in wall.png. You probably deleted the transparency or just overwrote them in black while editing it. (They're the second-to-last tile in wall.png.)

(0019818) white_noise (reporter) 2012-09-01 19:21	Oh. You are right. I did accidentally replace them with black background. Thanks.

(0019819) ontoclasm (developer) 2012-09-01 19:35	Actually, this crystal only uses one hue, but I can see how the automatic script might make a mess of things, particularly on the bright colors, so I'll make all the variations.

(0019820) ontoclasm (developer) 2012-09-01 20:36	Okay, color variations done.

(0019821) edlothiol (developer) 2012-09-01 20:40	By hue, I mean a specific H value in an HSV colour. In the old tile, [almost] all the green shades are hue 120, only differing in brightness. The recolouring code just replaces specific H values (keeping S and V intact, of course). I could maybe add a way to shift the hue of the complete tile, if that's just what you're doing; if the recolouring is more involved, we'll just use the handmade variants. (I don't particularly buy the argument that the automatically generated colour variations are easier to maintain after seeing this -- if the tile is changed, the parameters for the recolouring would almost always also need to be adapted.)

(0019831) KiloByte (manager) 2012-09-02 01:54	If you want shadows to be skipped in some configurations (like diagonally from crystal walls), there's no problem in that.

(0019832) infiniplex (reporter) 2012-09-02 02:16	white_noise: there are large arrays of green crystal in the game. Vaults:7-8 sometimes generates with green crystal walls.

(0019833) KiloByte (manager) 2012-09-02 02:23	There are certain large vaults built of nothing but green crystal. There's also a crystal cavern base layout, but that one uses a crystal tile of its own ("emerald", without a 3D look).

(0019838) KiloByte (manager) 2012-09-02 03:45	Abyssal walls are in.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2012-08-31 08:57	ontoclasm	New Issue
2012-08-31 08:57	ontoclasm	File Added: crystalwalls.png
2012-08-31 08:57	ontoclasm	File Added: abysswalls.png
2012-08-31 09:06	white_noise	Note Added: 0019787
2012-08-31 09:52	ontoclasm	File Added: crystalwalls2.png
2012-08-31 09:52	ontoclasm	Note Added: 0019788
2012-09-01 07:17	infiniplex	Note Added: 0019800
2012-09-01 13:54	white_noise	Note Added: 0019802
2012-09-01 13:55	white_noise	Note Edited: 0019802
2012-09-01 13:56	white_noise	File Added: crystals_preview.png
2012-09-01 16:52	Galefury	Note Added: 0019805
2012-09-01 17:03	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019806
2012-09-01 17:33	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019808
2012-09-01 17:40	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019809
2012-09-01 19:03	white_noise	Note Added: 0019814
2012-09-01 19:06	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019815
2012-09-01 19:13	white_noise	Note Added: 0019816
2012-09-01 19:15	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019817
2012-09-01 19:16	edlothiol	Note Edited: 0019817
2012-09-01 19:21	white_noise	Note Added: 0019818
2012-09-01 19:35	ontoclasm	Note Added: 0019819
2012-09-01 20:35	ontoclasm	File Added: crystalwalls3.png
2012-09-01 20:36	ontoclasm	Note Added: 0019820
2012-09-01 20:40	edlothiol	Note Added: 0019821
2012-09-02 01:54	KiloByte	Note Added: 0019831
2012-09-02 02:16	infiniplex	Note Added: 0019832
2012-09-02 02:23	KiloByte	Note Added: 0019833
2012-09-02 03:45	KiloByte	Note Added: 0019838
2012-09-08 22:08	ontoclasm	Status	new => resolved
2012-09-08 22:08	ontoclasm	Fixed in Branch	=> 0.11 pre-release branch
2012-09-08 22:08	ontoclasm	Resolution	open => done
2012-09-08 22:08	ontoclasm	Assigned To	=> ontoclasm
2012-09-08 22:08	ontoclasm	Status	resolved => closed

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