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2831246 — that FR has many comments which didn't make it here.
Just kind of an odd one, but I love the way Draconians work, in that you don't know what color you are going to be until late enough to prevent start scumming. It would be cool to see another race with a similar ability/theme. here comes unlife, a thematically fitting, and sofar unexplored (as a player species) idea for DCSS.
You would start as a generic golem, probably slightly tougher than a human. At some point in your leveling, your magical origin would manifest itself, and you would take on properties of whatever you're made of:
All golems are unlife, and immune to necromancy, but can't use it. Otherwise, since they are of magical origin, they can remain as susceptible to the normal adventurer pitfalls as anything else (ie, it would be too easy to make them unable to drown, immune to poison, ect.).
Stone golem: Very tough. probably an inherent AC increase, and vulnerability to being shattered. actually, shatter vulnerability might be a constant golem theme. Better fighting and armor stats.
Metal golem: permanent chance to reflect hostile spells, bonus to SH, tough, but not as much as stone. Maybe has a chance to rust (equivalent to rotting), if extended stay in water.
Clay(or mud) golem: made of anthropomorphic fluids, this one gets a bonus to EV, and probably mutation resistance. probably not shatter vulnerable. Moves slower than the other types.
These are the usual materials in the dungeon. possibly some rarer (and sillier) alternatives:
Wax golem: Made of beeswax, these golems are vulnerable to fire, but otherwise pretty tough. possibly able to tame and/or attract bees.
Brimstone golem: Forged from the bowels of the earth, this one is the opposite of the wax golem, resistant to fire, and constantly burning. This can be represented just fine with a minor fire power or two.
Overall, there are probably a lot more possiblities here (electric-golem anyone?), and I just think it would make a neat race.
poop: Here's a conglomeration of the thread's ideas that attempts to address these issues: the golems that enter the dungeon are made of weak materials like wood, mud, flesh, or wax, and are “incomplete” because their creator was an inexperienced wizard. As they level up and consume magical items, their magic gets augmented and eventually “completes” the golem, transforming it into one of the more powerful types:
For all I care, there could be three levels of gradation so stone golems could be refined into metal, but that seems a bit too strong. It might also be possible to make each golem type have more than one mature form.
The golems could have rMut but no negative energy resistance. Furthermore, as was discussed earlier, early golems would each be handicapped in some way their later form isn't: wax golems are fire vulnerable (and rather wimpy), mud golems would be slow as molasses, and flesh golems wouldn't get the damage reduction the other types do.
I think the whole changing type randomly and permanently should stay a draconian feature. What about simply being able to shift types, in a way similar to influencing decks with nemelex? E.g., have the option to “meld” with items, after enough melded items (a lot probably), your type shifts. Example: Corpses → flesh golem. Stones → stone golem. Weapons/armor → metal golem. Scrolls → Origami golem. Potions → Glass golem. Running out of melding material would cause rot like a ghoul, so you only have so much control before you're forced to randomly meld. — greepish 2011-12-06 10:15
Golems, usually thought of as the mindless creations of powerful mages, are not so mindless as one might expect. Their intelligence, enslaved to the commands of their creator, sometimes breaks free when given contradictory commands. Such freed golems eke out a lonely existence, struggling to find a niche in a world that considers them slaves.
Golems are creatures of magic, deriving sustenance from magical trinkets found in the dungeon rather than food. They are immune to the mutations and poisons that plague fleshy creatures. Though free golems appear faster and smarter than their slave counterparts, they have lost the former's warding against the elements, substantially weakened by the natural forces their creation rebelled against. Fire, cold, and electricity attacks slow a golem's systems down, even paralyzing it on occasions. Resistances protect against both of these effects, but not infallibly so. What warding a free golem does possess against the elements is weakest when the golem's reserves of magic are low; free golems therefore consume magic more ravenously than their ystem requires.
Since golems are accustomed to performing precise movements with an inflexible body of stone or metal, an extra coat of heavy armour does little to hinder their spellcasting prowess. Being creatures of magic, this prowess is quite good, allowing golems to cast conjurations, enchantments, and summonings well. However, as artificial beings, they have weak ties to nature, making them poor at all elemental magic and terrible at transmigration. Golems prefer maces and axes over other weapons due to their strength and low flexibility.
I intend this species to be excellent armoured crusaders, decent summoners or conjurers, and middling as pure fighters. I expect that any role will find their unique food situation and elemental weaknesses a challenge just as great as mutation avoidance for normal characters. Think of a golem as having a fixed, but poor mutation set with decent aptitudes, as opposed to undead having an excellent fixed mutation set with poor aptitudes.
Spellcasting golems will likely need to supplement their spells with melee attacks to avoid hunger, and fighting golems will likely need to dabble in summoning and deflection spells to avoid elemental ranged attacks.
Curio discussed in this thread.
Patch: 4400.
Flavor
Playable golem made from terracotta (see terracotta army for inspiration) and have some differences from in-game monster clay golem.
Golem is grey in color with a bit of orange tint and shaped as a large muscular human 2-2,3 meters tall with massive fists/forearms and matching shins/feet. Nevertheless of it's size it can wear armour, but because it have unnaturally big fists and feets - gloves and boots are prohibited.
It is have emotionless expression carved in it's face and dim light glow in eye-sockets instead of actual eyes and same glow from mouth, when opened. Golem have deep echoing voice. Most messages containing “life” term should be replaced with “existence” for golems. (“You spend a moment contemplating the meaning of existence”).
They should have high strength, medium dexterity and low intelligence stats.
Satiation
Golem gains nutrition from magical items instead of organic food and should be evaluated from “enchantment” level of an item - not it's material or size.
Nutrition gained only from enchanted items e.g. armor with +1 enchant or above, or weapon with summary positive bonus of accuracy and damage, that have glowing/runed/embroided status.
Golem devours magic item's essence striping it of all brands, enchantments and properties in a process, leaving mundane +0 weapon or armour. Jewelery get destroyed in a process.
Ego and randart items give set amout of nutrition for every property on top of enchantment level.
From eating +12, +6 sabre of Purpose {pain, +Rage} Golem will get nutrition from each level of enchant(18) + same bonus nutrition for both pain brand and +Rage. There is no need to overcomplicate and give different amount of nutrition for different item properties. Will it be SInv, *TELE, -TELE, reCurse or even +MUT each one will provide same amount of nutrition bonus. Naturally eating rF++ item will provide doubled bonus compared to rF+.
Same rules applied to jewelery. Even amulet of innacuracy will provide nutrition - it doesn't matter that it's properties not beneficial - it still have magic essence in it that makes it running.
Enchanted ammunition should give significantly less nutrition for each enchantment level and brands compared to normal weapon.
Nonrandarts' nutrition should be evaluated same as randart's - summary enchantment level + bonus for each property.
Cosuming all charges of a wand will instantly restore big amount of HP(and no/only some nutrition), averaging to HW-potion. The more charges in a wand and the more it is valuable - the more HP will be restored in an instant.
While not enchanted items give no nutrition at all and cursed/negatively enchanted items could even harm golems in some way (Sickness analog).
Ring of sustenance/hunger and amulet of gourmand have no effect on golems.
Golem can die of “starvation”. When nutrition ends - it just stops moving, and all is left is another motionless statue in the dungeon. Game over.
Main properties
Golems are:
Optional: Should have innate MR. In case of a needed buff could have increasing MR with XL up to total immunity at 27XL.
Aptitudes
Not a full picture but main points are:
Good armour, invocations, evocations;
Average fighting, weapon schools, dodging, throwing;
Bad stealth, stabbing, ranged schools (except throwing);
Abysmal spellcasting, magic schools.
Gods
Fedhas should accept golems as worshipers - they are not products nor instruments of necromancy.
Yredemnul will not accept golems as worshipers as they are artificial beings.
(Reposting an idea from the Tavern thread:) I like most of the flavor here, but I really don't think the game needs yet another large, tough, strong, equipment-restricted race with lousy magic. We already have trolls and ogres for that. Yes, the resistances distinguish these golems to some degree, but resistance to torment and mutation becomes relevant much, much too late to make up for the crippling lack of speed. Either a troll, naga, or mummy would be a superior choice for virtually any build.
Instead, I propose the following: give golems really GOOD magic aptitudes, and even an innate wizardry bonus. However, instead of following the standard spell hunger formula, golems lose a flat, not-insignificant amount of nutrition for every point of mana regenerated which is not mitigated by anything, ever. (The flavor: golems have a very easy time channeling the magical energies that naturally course through their bodies into spells, but are carelessly expending their very essence in the process.) If the golem food clock (which is already dependent on a resource less readily available than chunks) is tuned finely enough, this could create some really interesting tension: you have easy access to powerful magic, and are all but forced to use it due to the fact that your slow speed puts you at such a disadvantage, but must do so as sparingly as possible to keep from destroying yourself. A little bit like spriggans (but the complete opposite in every non-magical respect), except golems are never “over the hump” the way late-game spriggans tend to be, since hungerless casting would be unachievable for them. Getting the nutrition numbers right would be tough, but it would make golems much more distinct among the races in general, and the large races especially. — Sjohara 2011-09-25 07:42
TwilightPhoenix in this thread.
Patch: 4400.
Might be a good and/or thematic idea to give them Slow Movement 1.
Stats
High Strength, Medium Intelligence, Low Dexterity
Mutations
Stone Skin (2 AC lvl 1, 4 AC lvl 10, 6 AC lvl 15)
Your stone skin resists harm, but breaks when damaged.
You consume minerals instead of food and liquids.
You cannot breathe and do not need air.
Armor fits very poorly on your rocky body.
You are heavy and noisy.
Your inorganic body is immune to poison, sickness, alteration, and unholy pain and tormet.
You can temporarily meld with stone to heal yourself at the cost of losing a part of yourself. (Level 10)
To add some brief explanations that didn't make it from the topic. Breathless means curare immunity, inability to use blowguns, and unable to drown. Combined with their heavy weight, they're able to wander around at the bottom of deep water, but they move extremely slowly (at minimum has similar affect of hitting them with Slow, at maximum it's always Slow Movement 3 when in deep water. Whatever's balanced), attacks always land (or, at least, EV is reduced to zero), and their ability to fight back while in water is extremely hampered. Maybe also make any fire spells they try to cast from underwater will just create a bunch of steam instead? Breathlessness also originally meant they'd be mute (they'd cast via gesturing), but a comment from Galehar on the forums stating they should either be fully affected by perma-silence or not be perma-silenced at all means making them mute probably isn't a good idea. — TwilightPhoenix 2011-08-17 23:45
Aptitudes
Fighting: +0 Traps and Doors: +1
Short Blades: -3 Stealth: -4
Long Blades: -2 Stabbing: -4
Axes: +1 Spellcasting: +0
Maces and Flails: +1 Fire Magic: -1
Polearms: -1 Ice Magic: -1
Staves: -2 Air Magic: -2
Unarmed: +0 Earth Magic: +0
Bows: -3 Poison Magic: -2
Crossbows: -2 Hexes: -2
Throwing: -1 Charms: -2
Slings: -4 Transmutations: -2
Armor: -3 Necromancy: -2
Dodging: -4 Translocations: -2
Shields: -3 Invocations: +0
Evocations: +0
Aptitudes Explained: Stone Golems are good at fighting and can handle axes and maces decently well. They lack the dexterity to handle smaller weapons or those requiring high finesse very well, but their strength prevents them from being as bad with unarmed and polearms. Throwing something or pointing and clicking with a Crossbow is, likewise, easier than using a bow or a sling. Being huge, heavy, and loud no matter how much they try, they're horrid at anything stealth related.
Being a magical construction, Stone Golems are, unlike other large species, naturally in-tune with the ways of magic, particularly Earth Magic, though they can use Fire and Ice decently. All other magic they're below average with.
Others
Yred won't accept Stone Golem followers since they are artificial and Yred kind of hates that. Neither will Jiyva as Jiyva seems to be all about turning its followers into slime considering the mutations it hands out and a Stone Golem can't become slime.
Spell/Effect Restrictions: Stone Golems are unaffected by and can't learn or cast Flight, Levitation, Regeneration, Berserk, Torment, self-transmutation spells, Recititation, Vampiric Draining, Borg's Revification, Death's Door, Sublimation of Blood
Vulnerabilities: Probably should be vulnerable to LRD, Shatter, and Disintegrate. Maybe even Dig too, especially when trying to heal via melding with a wall. Boring Beetles and Rock Works might also do extra damage while melded, or possibly unmelded too.
Flavour
Atheistic praying: “You contemplate the meaning of your existence.”
When you die, “You shatter/crumble/break…”
When attempting to use Trog's berserk, “You are unable to raise a rage in your stone body.”
When attempting to recite, “You can't speak!”
While the mechanics would be unchanged, eating could be referred to as “Repairing” or “Restoring”.
When attempting to communicate to allies, they can only do it via signaling with sign language or some other method. Allies who are currently distracted, such as in combat, will not be able to receive the command.
When trying to shout for attention (hitting default key twice in a row), they make no noise but instead get a “You wave your arms frantically for attention!”
Ghosts: maybe not leave one since they crumble. Or perhaps they can be rebuilt by the monsters? Or perhaps the magical energy that drives them keeps on trying to press on, making a sort of magical shade (undead-like, but not undead).
Summary
Big, strong, tough, but perhaps not as much as the other huge species. They make better casters, however. Number of quirks because they're both non-living and non-undead. Unique method of managing health/nutrition. Has a panic-heal button with a serious cost. They're tankish, but not damage sponges, and you don't want to tank too much.
Note: They probably should have some ability that lets them eat more than one stone at a time. Perhaps automatically eat all the stones in a stack until they have restored all rotted HP?
Comments: 3-5 HP for large rocks won't work. You can throw a large rock repeatedly against a wall until it shatters, and then it will become much more valuable than 3-5 HP. Better to have large rocks heal large amounts. For compensation, the melding into walls should go, it was dubbed un-golemy. There is the drawback that players will go back to large rock piles in order to heal up.More HP for large rocks is fine, the numbers were just theoretical. The wall thing was sort of a panic button in case you ran out of rocks and that's what came to mind. They could probably survive without it, however. Going back to large rock piles for health sounds like the similar issue of stashing food and other consumables. It's not desirable, but figuring out how to deal with that would likely also solve stashing. — TwilightPhoenix 2011-08-17 23:45Should stone/rock enchantment matter in any way for healing purposes? (Players will want to enchant rocks in any case for anti-mulching.)
Not something I thought of, admittedly. I can see the advantages of allowing it. Enchanted rocks giving more health would create the decisions of “Do I enchant my weapon to kill stuff better or enchant my rocks to stay alive better?” and “Do I throw my enchanted large rock to kill this Ettin, risking it breaking, or do I keep it to heal myself after he hits me with those giant spiked clubs?” On the downside, it might lead to players hording their scrolls until they find a pile of large rocks. — TwilightPhoenix 2011-08-17 23:45
I like the idea behind a golem species. But since golems are not alive, perhaps the story could be told from the point of view of the golem's creator. That is to say, a wizard (safely on the surface) imbued a hunk of *material* with magical energy and sent it into the dungeon to get the Orb. Furthermore the golem does not have to be large, a golem could just as easily have been created such that it could fit into armour. — Tenaya 2011-09-28 00:51