Defense Skill Training

The following topics are not necessarily crucial for 0.6, but it'd be very good to get them in. First, they'd make obsolete the old and opaque heavy/light distinction among armours. Second, training of Armour and Dodging is not very well done currently anyway. — dpeg 2010-01-27 21:15

One comment in email by greensnark: I favour using the EP instead of raw armour mass.
I also agree on stealth training, and armour and dodging, but we need hard numbers for the latter two.

The training changes have been postponed to 0.7 (please do continue to add feedback here). In the interim, the existing skill training mechanism remains, with all explicit checks for heavy/light armour replaced by simple rolls against the body armour mass. This is a stopgap that should be replaced in 0.7 (or 0.6.X if necessary).

Armour training

Currently, the Armour skill only trains in heavy armour, with a chance of body_armour_mass/2000 (capped at 50%) if a monster does actual damage. Additionally, there is a chance to exercise Armour over time with chance body_armour_mass/6000 (at most 17%). This passive training is not possible if Armour skill > 3*EVP.

Here, everything is wrong, in my opinion. First, Armour training is annoyingly slow. (Leading players to victory dancing it.) Second, passive training is never good. Third, the active training can be scummed as well.

Proposal: You only train Armour if you block an attack with raw damage > Armour skill; if so, the chance is

(damage blocked) / (Armour skill + 1) * 100   (capped at 1/2)

Analysis: Early on (no Armour skill), you train the skill with chances around 5%. This should suffice to get going. At the other end, you need to block 26 damage, but you'll have very good AC by then. Increasing training chance with damage is not strictly necessary but seems natural and might increase Armour training for some styles.

  • Besides blocking damage, Armour skill also helps against armour penalty: Heavy armour can cause miscasts and can prevent you from hitting a monster in melee. In so far, it makes sense to train armour skill in some way by fighting and casting while wearing armour. Not saying that needs to be the case, but it's a point that seems to be missing in the reasoning above. — rob 2010-01-31 08:57
  • I must be missing something: as soon as you put on any armour, your Armour skill will train. Faster with the heavier armours and lower Armour skill, granted. I don't see how casting should come in? You will block damage no matter which style you choose. — dpeg 2010-01-31 14:25

Dodging training

Dodging currently does not train if Armour < 3*EVP and you are wearing heavy armour.

Proposal: You only train Dodging if you evade an attack with raw damage > Dodging skill; if so, the chance is

(damage evaded) / (Dodging skill + 1) * 100   (capped at 1/2)

Stealth training

Currently, you cannot train Stealth until you have 3*EVP in Armour skill if you are using a heavy armour. The least intrusive change would be to just drop the condition on heavy armour, it seems.

Personally, I think that Stealth should train without the 3*EVP restriction. If you're wearing actually heavy armour, you won't train Stealth much anyway. But for something like troll leather, I don't see why the cap is useful.

Stealth itself

Stealth (the very number) currently gets a penalty of body armour mass *if* it is heavy. I suggest to use instead 12*EVP. This is new1.

If we think that is too odd, using body armour mass *without* the condition (i.e. also for robes and leather) would be possible. This is new2 in the table below.


               EVP  Mass    old, new1 new2 new3
Animal skin     0   10.0      0    0   10    0
Robe            0    6.0      0    0    6    0
Leather armour -1   15.0      0   12   12    6
Ring mail      -2   25.0     25   24   25   24
Scale mail     -3   35.0     35   36   25   54
Chain mail     -4   40.0     40   48   40   96
Banded mail    -5   50.0     50   60   50  150
Splint mail    -5   55.0     55   60   55  150
Plate mail     -6   65.0     65   72   65  216
Crystal plate  -8  120.0    120   96  120  384
Gold dragon    -9  110.0    110  108  110  486
  • I think early game stealth is low enough we don't want to hit robes with -6 stealth (new2). On the other hand, for a highly stealthy character (500 stealth), GDA's 110 hit is negligible. I propose new3 = 6 * evp**2. — rob 2010-01-31 09:02
    • I like that formula. It'd mean that you wouldn't be stealthy in plate, which is good (but see below). — dpeg 2010-01-31 14:27
  • Also, shouldn't armour skill help with the stealth hit? — rob 2010-01-31 09:11
    • No, I don't think so. At least, I am sure that the Armour skill was intentionally missing from the old formula (and definitely for mine). As I see it, we don't want Armour 27 types to be stealthy in the heaviest of armours. If you want to benefits of stealth, choose a light armour. Of course, your radically new formula would allow some leeway for Armour mitigating stealth reduction, but I'd rather skip the quadratic formula than add that to the Stealth effect.
      Summing up, I think that greater Stealth hits from EVP as per new3 together with Armour skill not helping is perfectly fine. — dpeg 2010-01-31 14:27
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dcss/brainstorm/skills/armour_training.txt · Last modified: 2011-12-20 17:16 by XuaXua
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