Summoning and Threats

Name dcss:brainstorm:magic:summoning: threats
Summary Brainstorming ideas about suitable threats to Summoners and summon-based play.
Further information summoning
Added by evktalo
Added on 2010-09-14 16:19

I think from now on we need to pay more attention to summoners when adding new monsters and features. It's not just Abjuration you know.

Traps

Teleportation Trap and Shaft are dangerous to summoners, especially low on MP (even more dangerous to characters relying on permanent allies). Banish and Abyss in general too; each warping of the Abyss requires summoning a new army.

Other traps could be dangerous because monsters are less careful and don't know Traps&Doors. Such traps should affect player even if triggered by an ally. Zot trap is okay. There's a lot of potential in Alarm trap, but for a reason I can't comprehend it still allowed to suck (is very quiet, any explosion or lighting will attract more monsters). Beef up the Alarm trap ! Don't stop until players are complaining about it, then tune it down a little. Prudent summoners may want to work on T&D skill to avoid nasty surprises.

Anti-summoning for monsters

Ideas about what monsters could do against summoners.

From b0rsuk in rgrm: Cause Fear, explosion on death

Also, replace some of the single target spells used by monsters with mass spells. Players should be able to distinguish between them even without allies (I think monster Torment and Agony are indisginguishable). Some monsters could cast Mass Confusion instead of plain one. Dispersal instead of TO for some monsters sounds nice. Chain Lighting. A spell that spreads from one adjacent enemy to other like plague/wildfire. — b0rsuk 2010-08-07 17:47

evktalo: Dispersal or smite-targeted teleport other

Losing control over summoned creatures

I wrote about this in rgrm: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.misc/browse_thread/thread/df2b1a90caed8dd0#

In some situations a summoner may lose control over his minions, causing them to become hostile, neutral, confused, slowed, or just disappear. Or it could attack everything in sight. It could depend on summon type. Some creatures like canines could be more loyal.

Loss of control could occur when one of following happens:

  • summoner is confused
  • summoner is weak or wounded (demons?)
  • summoner is out of sight
  • summoner is distracted/fleeing/stabbable (for monster summoners)
  • there are more creatures summoned than summon cap permits (currently not implemented)

If distraction means losing control over summons, it would have interesting implications for monsters. You could even add Summon Scary Stuff as monster's escape spell (once per life; some summoners could have their normal summoning powers replaced with this). Then when a summoner panics, it summons something nasty and because he now counts as distracted he's threatened by the summoned monster too ! — b0rsuk 2010-08-07 18:28

XP drain for ally death

You lose XP for letting your summons kill things instead of you. Right now it is proportional to their damage input - this puts those that like to buff/heal allies and hex monsters at a distinct disadvantage over those with pure DPS builds. What if the character was getting an irresistible XP drain on ally death (but not unsummon) instead? Stat loss/HP/MP loss is also an option. — sinsi 2011-04-09 22:41

Sounds like you might be able to do some weird stuff to avoid this (teleport your allies away before they die came to mind. But since you could instead be healing them or confusing enemies.. this could work. So how about this: track XP sharing like now (proportional to damage to monsters), but only reduce the XP you gained if your ally dies. This would not work as well for permanent allies, though. — evktalo 2011-04-09 21:54
“Only reduce XP you gained if your ally dies” sounds backwards to me. Grant half XP, but track for each summon/ally how much XP has been soaked up by them and transfer it to you when they unsummon by duration (but ideally not abjuration; not feasible in abjuration's current form) or X turns later, whichever comes first (X is something like thirty). This means actual summoners who keep their pets alive get full XP and a guy with one powerful ally (by whatever means) does too, and people who let their summons die a lot get half XP. Probably wanna dock them more than half to be fair. Two downsides. First, guys like the priest of Beogh get off way too easy. Second, and more importantly, this is less comprehensive and perhaps less intuitive than the more thorough rehauls being discussed elsewhere, the ones that address the real summoning issues rather than the XP thing (which is sort of a secondary symptom). — brickman 2011-04-10 07:21
This 'X turns later' part is kinda tricky. On one hand, any XP eaten up by permanent allies is used to level them up, so it is not wasted - but there are undead allies that are useless since they can't leave the level they are on, and inconsistent behaviour would be bad. —sinsi 2011-04-10 14:10
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dcss/brainstorm/magic/threats.txt · Last modified: 2011-12-21 23:44 by XuaXua
 
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