Reagent (Spell Component) Interface Reform

Name dcss:brainstorm:magic: reagent interface
Summary Make casting spells with components more fluid.
Further informationboneshards
Added by evktalo
Added on 2010-02-02 12:52

Main idea is to make the interface less involved in casting spells with components. Some of the current interface aspects help balance the spells (wielding delay mainly). This delay can be kept while making the interface more fluid.

Without having looked at the component-spell-casting code, there might be a chance of generalizing this thing code-wise.

A quiver-like ammo selection for reagent spells in targeting would be handy. This would work for Evaporate and Bone Shards. The spell would go directly to targeting when cast, and the desired ammo could be selected with ( and ), or you could press * to bring up the full list of appropriate components.

Sublimation of Blood

SF FRs: 2788944, 1920396

Keep the current behaviour as much as possible;

  • can cast from your own body for HP loss and short time
  • if you carry no chunks, default cast does this
  • if it goes to the inventory, there's an additional '.' item to target yourself
    • can cast from a wielded chunck for fast casting


  • can cast from a chunck in inventory for a delay of swap-cast-swap (not interruptible)
  • can cast from a chunk in the ground for a delay of pick up-swap-cast-swap
    • can't do if you have a cursed weapon


  • corpses?
  • corpses on the ground?

The spell itself is considered strong, and doesn't need boosting.

16:16 < Keskitalo> myuzinn: Yeah, but we could have both. In the vampiric
                   draining example, you wouldn't need to chop the corpse
                   (which you were about to use immediately)
16:16 < myuzinn> agreed
16:17 < myuzinn> how would you determine which to use though
16:17 < myuzinn> if there's a corpse at their feet and chunks in inventory?
16:17 < Jeff__> if you use it over a corpse, it auto uses corpse
16:17 < Jeff__> or auto prompts at least
16:17 < Jeff__> then if you dont' want to use corpse, it goes to invent
16:17 < myuzinn> I suppose players should just be cautious using it over
                 corpses they want to cut then
16:18 < Henzell> Darkshadow the Acrobat (L26 DEEn) found a dark rune of Zot on
                 turn 99376. (Pan)
16:18 < myuzinn> I wouldn't bother with prompt
16:18 < myuzinn> just chuck a "make sure you don't do it over that gold dragon
                 corpse" in the learndb entry
I would suggest something similar to confusing touch's status effect. You prepare the items for sublimation, they disappear from your inventory, you gain the “Sublimated” status effect and discharge a random amount (for MP) on each successive cast. Colour of status effect indicates how much you have prepared (this amount decays over time). Removes the need to micromanage as you can simply prepare each corpse you come across (rather than doing it in-combat). Preparation comes by casting the spell with wielded carrion. Discharge comes by casting the spell with no carrion in your hands. — StudioMK 2010-08-25 19:25
I think in-combat sublimation is balanced by needing to wield the chunks, as that means you're not holding an enhancer/wizardry staff, resist weapon, or melee weapon. Switching takes a bit of time, so a player may decide to wield a stack of chunks throughout a fight, which trades away the weapon slot for the duration. Letting people stack sublimation beforehand lets them instantly use it with a weapon without drawing from HP, which is a pretty big boost. — OG17 2010-08-25 19:53
This is true. By now I've used the spell myself, and it is very strong. I also didn't find using it too tedious, but I'm pretty patient. It sure could be less taxing. Automatically using the oldest chunk you carry would probably work well. That would drop the wielding requirement, which has a nice perk of creating a moment of vulnerability (like OG17 describes above) plus adding some flavour. I wonder if this would work: automatically wield the oldest chunk stack when casting the spell. No automatic switching back to main weapon, since you should be left to decide when to do that. — evktalo 2010-08-25 20:09
I should say that the tediousness goes away when you start using autoinscriptions. 'autoinscribe = corpse:@*1' pretty much makes the whole thing a lot faster and easier to execute. Unfortunately, some players either don't want the hastle of setting up the autoinscriptions, or they didn't know that such a feature exists (or hadn't thought of using it with corpses/potions of blood). — StudioMK 2010-08-25 22:39
I had no idea that feature existed. (For reference, @*1 inscription will make any item command accept “1” to point at the inscribed item, that is, w1 would wield the chunks that have been inscribed with @*1 - handy for macros.) — evktalo 2010-08-26 08:08

Sticks to Snakes

SF FRs: 1920396, 2129535

Keep the current behaviour as much as possible:

  • can cast from a wielded item
  • can cast from a wieldable item in inventory; takes swap-cast-swap delay; not interruptible


  • can cast from quiver, as fast as wielded

dploog: use quivered item (if possible), else prompt for inventory item

Considered weak, could be boosted by removing the delay. I (Eino) find it ok, though.

Is the idea to have it cast from the quiver with no prompt, and ask you to select an item only if there is nothing suitable in the quiver (or wielded)? That would be my preference, so that if you dedicate the quiver to components it takes no more keystrokes than an ordinary spell. — Lemuel 2010-02-05 05:12

I have an idea. Make the snakes revert back to sticks once the timer is over. If a snake dies, the stick is destroyed. This would make it easier to conserve reagents, and the spell could become low-end alternative to Tukima's Dance. Unlike dancing blades, snakes can be enchanted so hopefully this spell would have a niche then. Carrying a big stick for purpose of enchanting it with Haste(no other buffs worth mentioning) could become worthwile. Note that this change shouldn't create interface issues, collecting sticks afterwards is not going to be a big problem because 1) Often, snakes will be following you closely so they will revert back very close to you 2) weak snakes meant as cannon fodder and distraction will just die in masses, so there will be few or no sticks to pick up. It will make the most difference with big sticks. b0rsuk

If we use the quiver, should the item be auto-wielded before being turned to snake? If not, we might as well get rid of the wield requirement and always use the quiver. We can make every snakable stick quiverable when you know s2s. Also, what about big sticks? Should we keep them reserved to big races? — galehar 2010-12-16 11:34

Bone Shards

SF FR: 1856831 See also: boneshards

Keep the current behaviour as much as possible:

  • can cast from a wielded skeleton
  • can cast from a skeleton in inventory: takes swap-cast-swap delay; not interruptible
  • can't cast if weapon is cursed

Consider weak, could be boosted by removing the delay and inability cast with a cursed weapon. Could be increased in power too. Also suggested: cast using ally skeletons.

I think its better that the spell have no delay; even with a damage boost and no delay it isn't that impressive of a spell because of the reagent requirement. Cursed weapons I could go either way on; not working with a weapon stuck to your hands is fine by me. Definitely like the idea of allowing it to be cast on allied skeletons (though I guess that raises the question of it being used on unallied skeletons too; maybe possible but you'd have to pass a MR check or something? Not sure). — Twinge 2010-02-04 19:28


Currently it will ask you to choose from all of your potions. I propose a change:

  • 'z' to throw a potion of Confusion, Slowing, Decay, Poison, Degeneration, Strong Poison, Paralysis, Water or Mutation.
  • 'Z' to throw any potion

So, 'z' would cover the 95% of cases - it would be for throwing bad or low value potions. 'Z' would allow all potions to be thrown. Some of the valuable potions might have good effects, for example berserk rage currently might produce flame according to chaosforge wiki. The change (z and Z) would make it analogous to throwing interface (f and F). — b0rsuk 2011-07-03 00:34


SF FR: 2831601 has nice discussion on it's use.

  • j_m_f says in an FR comment the delay/wielding reqs are important for balance

Keep the current behaviour as much as possible:

  • can cast from a wielded stone
  • can cast without; weak. If stones in inventory, prompts whether to use them or no stone; using stones from inventory has a swap-cast-swap delay, not interruptible. Can only cast the weak version if wielding a cursed weapon
  • bigger blast from a large rock! This could be boosted.

Again, I would suggest having it use stones/large rocks without a prompt if you have them quivered. This is just about eliminating keystrokes, not delay or the curse-weapon restriction. — Lemuel 2010-02-05 05:15

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dcss/brainstorm/magic/reagent_interface.txt · Last modified: 2011-12-21 23:13 by XuaXua
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