p and W

IRC's had rumblings of combining these glyphs, but also provided a very good idea to further distinguish the two kinds of incorporeal undead: p undead can't use stairs, and instead haunt their level like a player ghost (and silent specter). W undead have no such ties and chase the player between levels. Currently the difference between the two is that W sees invisible and has a damaging branded attack, which is a fairly weak distinction, but binding all ghosts to their levels would make the split very visible. This would have almost no effect on balance, given the rarity (and general weakness) of p ghosts - early phantoms could be easier to escape, but they already blink away. — OG17 2010-10-03 21:52

'p': ghost (dummy), phantom, hungry ghost, flayed ghost, player ghost, player illusion (Mara), shadow, silent spectre, spirit (holy) 'W': wraith, shadow wraith, freezing wraith, greater wraith (blue_anna), phantasmal warrior, spectral monsters (and Nergalle's orcs)

If any of those should be in the opposite category, that's doable. — KiloByte 2010-10-03 22:12

Mara illusions use the player glyph, guessing that's a dummy thing? They should keep using stairs, anyway. The rest look fine where they are. — OG17 2010-10-03 22:17
Very good idea, +1 from here. — dpeg 2010-10-04 00:47
+1 from here too. (One potential issue, though: Yred can gift friendly hungry ghosts and flayed ghosts, and one of the points of his gifts seems to be that they can use stairs while his zombies/skeletons can't. So, if this change is made, the ghosts should probably be removed from the gift list. As for any proposed replacements, they should probably go on the Yred page.) — dolorous 2010-10-06 16:18
Sounds good to me too. Good call on the Yrdy concern. — evktalo 2010-12-08 08:57


They use the same glyph and colour as walls, which is doubly bad. Unless you redefine them in your config (ie, not for 99% of players), you'll find yourself using 'x' to check places.

Fixing this in Unicode is trivial. Not so much in ASCII.

There are two proposals currently:

  • '&' (pushing pan lords to '0')
  • '0'

The Orb certainly has no reason to have a glyph of its own, a precious resource in ASCII.

I personally like '&' more. — KiloByte 2010-09-24 13:11

There's an argument for a unique orb, as seeing it is a pretty big moment, but ice beasts sure as heck don't need a unique glyph. It might already be spoken for, though, there was some desire to free ; for elevated terrain and I would be natural for fish.

Anyway, 0 looked pretty bad when I saw someone try it, though I don't see how & could be better. Didn't like ' either, it made finding cloud boundaries hard. How about -? — OG17 2010-09-24 13:25
- looks pretty bad in my font, at least, but + works very well (and is what I currently use); the only problem is that steam and lightgrey smoke kind of looks like a bunch of doors, though I wouldn't complain if doors went someplace else. — MrMisterMonkey 2010-09-27 21:33

I believe that the Orb of Zot would look very fine as '*', ideally with lots of graphical effects (elemental colour, flickering halo). But I don't think that '0' or '&' will make better clouds. (I agree a change is needed.) — dpeg 2010-09-26 23:20

I'm doubtful if either would be a good cloud, but it'd be very easy to combine k (bees, fireflies) and y (wasps, moths, flies, mosquitos) to free a glyph for other usage. — OG17 2010-09-27 13:26
If unseen horrors and abominations were moved from x to u, x might make a good glyph for clouds. — jejorda2 2010-12-08 14:37
That loses the x/X abomination progression (unless you put large on U and bears on X ?). Using x ugly things instead isn't a bad idea, but would need fixed abomination colors, or at least have them draw from a tiny selection. — OG17 2010-12-08 17:18

Ice Beasts

The I glyph is used only for the Ice Beast, while most glyphs are used for many enemies. If the Ice Beast were reflavored and renamed as the Ice Troll, it could be moved to T (white) and I would be free for fish, leaving ; for terrain. The description could explain that in cold habitats, the energy used for regen is better used keeping warm. The different metabolism required to survive makes poison effects incompatible with Ice Trolls. The Ice Form transmutation spell already has claws like a troll. Then it only remains to avoid the temptation to create silly unneeded things fire trolls and lightning trolls.— jejorda2 2010-12-08 15:09

The objection is good, but I like Y better for this, as trolls have multiple attacks and regeneration while ice beasts have properties tied to being actually made of ice - there's few similarities, and Y is a much vaguer glyph. Sky beasts would work well on x, given their description, and any further temptations would likely fit on one or the other. — OG17 2010-12-08 17:10
If Ice Beasts change to Y, they could be renamed to Yeti. — jeffqyzt 2010-12-15
Yeti has different implications–I would expect a yeti to be humanoid, to maybe have a club, and to be ice-resistant but only have a physical attack. Like they are in Nethack, basically. Ice beast, while not by itself making you positive of the creature's nature, makes “nonhumanoid with ice resistance, fire vulnerability and an ice attack” shoot to the top of the list of possibilities, where it can easily be verified by first-hand experience. If the name implied something besides the reality learning the reality could be much harder. — Brickman 2010-12-16 05:09
A greater difference is that yetis are traditionally flesh-and-blood while ice beasts are vaguely-defined quasielemental things. But really, crawl yetis could be whatever crawl wants. — OG17 2010-12-16 05:48

Glyph List

Zaba made a list from the source, and I reordered it after excluding uniques, dummy monsters, mimics, sprint-specific stuff, and so on - the idea is that these are recurring random monsters, so as to show how heavily each glyph is actually used. Not sure about all the dummy stuff, or if kraken parts should be listed, etc, but it's a start. — OG17 2010-09-29 19:35

1 (1) %: death_cob (yellow)
1 (1) (: dancing_weapon (black)
1 (1) I: ice_beast (white)
10(1) &: pandemonium_demon (black), hell_demon (black), mnoleg (lightgreen), lom_lobon (lightblue), cerebov (red), gloorx_vloq (lightgrey), geryon (green), dispater (magenta), asmodeus (lightmagenta), ereshkigal (white)
2 (2) u: ugly_thing (black), very_ugly_thing (black)
2 (2) x: unseen_horror (magenta), abomination_small (black)
3 (2) b: giant_bat (lightgrey), butterfly (black), vampire_bat (darkgrey)
6 (2) R: efreet (red), rakshasa (yellow), rakshasa_fake (yellow), azrael (lightred), mara (lightmagenta), mara_fake (lightmagenta)
3 (2) L: lich (lightgrey), ancient_lich (white), boris (red)
3 (3) 9: gargoyle (lightgrey), metal_gargoyle (cyan), molten_gargoyle (red)
3 (3) P: plant (green), oklob_plant (lightgreen), bush (brown)
3 (3) V: vampire (red), vampire_knight (cyan), vampire_mage (magenta)
3 (3) Z: zombie_large (brown), skeleton_large (lightgrey), simulacrum_large (etc_ice)
3 (3) n: necrophage (lightgrey), ghoul (red), rotting_hulk (brown)
4 (3) A: angel (white), cherub (white), daeva (yellow), mennas (etc_silver)
4 (3) B: program_bug (lightred), giant_beetle (blue), boulder_beetle (lightgrey), boring_beetle (brown)
4 (3) O: ogre (brown), two_headed_ogre (lightred), ogre_mage (magenta), erolcha (lightblue)
4 (3) j: giant_slug (green), giant_snail (lightgreen), elephant_slug (lightgrey), gastronok (lightred)
4 (4) U: bear (brown), grizzly_bear (lightgrey), polar_bear (white), black_bear (blue)
4 (4) a: giant_ant (red), queen_ant (lightred), soldier_ant (white), ant_larva (lightgrey)
4 (4) v: fire_vortex (red), spatial_vortex (black), vapour (lightcyan), insubstantial_wisp (lightgrey)
5 (4) E: earth_elemental (etc_earth), fire_elemental (etc_fire), water_elemental (etc_water), air_elemental (etc_air), iron_elemental (etc_iron)
5 (4) F: giant_frog (green), giant_toad (brown), spiny_frog (yellow), blink_frog (lightgreen), prince_ribbit (lightcyan)
5 (4) X: abomination_large (black), tentacled_monstrosity (green), orb_guardian (magenta), kraken (black), test_spawner (white)
5 (4) c: centaur (brown), centaur_warrior (yellow), yaktaur (red), yaktaur_captain (lightred), nessos (magenta)
6 (4) K: kobold (brown), big_kobold (yellow), kobold_demonologist (magenta), nisse (white), sonja (red), pikel (blue)
6 (4) M: mummy (lightgrey), guardian_mummy (yellow), greater_mummy (white), mummy_priest (red), menkaure (magenta), khufu (lightred)
6 (4) T: troll (brown), rock_troll (lightgrey), iron_troll (cyan), deep_troll (yellow), snorg (lightgreen), purgy (green)
7 (4) g: goblin (lightgrey), hobgoblin (brown), gnoll (yellow), boggart (magenta), ijyb (blue), grum (lightred), crazy_yiuf (black)
6 (4) i: spriggan (lightgrey), spriggan_rider (lightblue), spriggan_druid (green), spriggan_defender (yellow), the_enchantress (lightmagenta), agnes (lightcyan)
5 (5) 4: red_devil (red), rotting_devil (green), hairy_devil (lightred), sixfirhy (lightblue), hellwing (lightgrey)
5 (5) ;: big_fish (lightgreen), giant_goldfish (lightred), electric_eel (lightblue), shark (white), lava_fish (red)
5 (5) N: naga (green), naga_mage (red), naga_warrior (blue), greater_naga (yellow), salamander (lightred)
5 (5) f: toadstool (black), fungus (lightgrey), ballistomycete (magenta), hyperactive_ballistomycete (lightred), wandering_mushroom (brown)
5 (5) k: queen_bee (yellow), killer_bee (brown), bumblebee (red), killer_bee_larva (lightgrey), firefly (lightblue)
5 (5) r: rat (brown), quokka (white), grey_rat (lightgrey), green_rat (lightgreen), orange_rat (lightred)
5 (5) t: crocodile (brown), baby_alligator (blue), alligator (lightblue), snapping_turtle (green), alligator_snapping_turtle (lightgreen)
6 (6) W: wraith (white), shadow_wraith (magenta), freezing_wraith (lightblue), greater_wraith (lightgrey), phantasmal_warrior (lightgreen), spectral_thing (green)
6 (6) y: yellow_wasp (yellow), giant_mosquito (white), giant_blowfly (lightgrey), red_wasp (red), ghost_moth (magenta), moth_of_wrath (brown)
7 (6) *: kraken_connector (black), ball_lightning (lightcyan), giant_spore (green), orb_of_fire (red), orb_of_destruction (white), blessed_toe (yellow), silver_star (etc_silver)
7 (6) m: merfolk (blue), merfolk_impaler (lightblue), merfolk_javelineer (lightgrey), merfolk_aquamancer (green), mermaid (cyan), siren (lightcyan), ilsuiw (lightgreen)
7 (7) 2: beast (brown), hellion (etc_fire), sun_demon (yellow), reaper (lightgrey), soul_eater (magenta), ice_devil (white), lorocyproca (blue)
8 (7) Y: sheep (lightgrey), yak (brown), death_yak (yellow), elephant (green), dire_elephant (blue), hellephant (lightred), apis (white), nellie (lightmagenta)
11(7) C: hill_giant (lightred), ettin (brown), cyclops (yellow), fire_giant (red), frost_giant (lightblue), stone_giant (lightgrey), titan (magenta), chuck (white), iron_giant (cyan), polyphemus (green), antaeus (lightcyan)
8 (8) G: giant_eyeball (white), eye_of_draining (lightgrey), giant_orange_brain (lightred), great_orb_of_eyes (lightgreen), shining_eye (lightmagenta), eye_of_devastation (yellow), golden_eye (etc_gold), ophan (etc_fire)
8 (8) h: jackal (brown), hound (yellow), warg (white), wolf (lightgrey), war_dog (cyan), hog (red), hell_hound (lightcyan), hell_hog (lightred)
8 (8) p: ghost (lightgrey), phantom (blue), hungry_ghost (green), flayed_ghost (red), player_ghost (white), shadow (magenta), silent_spectre (cyan), spirit (yellow)
8 (8) w: worm (lightred), brain_worm (lightmagenta), swamp_worm (brown), spiny_worm (lightgreen), giant_leech (red), kraken_tentacle (black), lava_worm (red), rock_worm (brown)
9 (8) H: hippogriff (brown), manticore (red), minotaur (lightred), griffon (yellow), sphinx (lightgrey), harpy (green), kenku (lightblue), phoenix (etc_fire), shedu (white)
10(8) q: dwarf (lightgrey), deep_dwarf (brown), deep_dwarf_scion (yellow), deep_dwarf_artificer (yellow), deep_dwarf_necromancer (magenta), deep_dwarf_berserker (lightred), deep_dwarf_death_knight (blue), deep_dwarf_unborn (white), wiglaf (yellow), paracelsus (lightblue)
12(8) o: orc (lightred), orc_wizard (magenta), orc_priest (green), orc_warrior (yellow), orc_knight (cyan), orc_warlord (lightcyan), orc_sorcerer (lightmagenta), orc_high_priest (lightgreen), blork_the_orc (brown), urug (red), nergalle (white), saint_roka (lightblue)
9 (9) 1: fiend (lightred), ice_fiend (white), shadow_fiend (magenta), pit_fiend (brown), executioner (lightgrey), green_death (green), blue_death (blue), balrug (red), cacodemon (yellow)
9 (9) 3: smoke_demon (lightgrey), tormentor (yellow), blue_devil (blue), iron_devil (cyan), neqoxec (lightmagenta), orange_demon (lightred), ynoxinul (lightcyan), shadow_demon (magenta), chaos_spawn (etc_random)
9 (9) 5: imp (red), quasit (lightgrey), white_imp (white), lemure (yellow), ufetubus (lightcyan), iron_imp (cyan), midge (lightgreen), shadow_imp (magenta), grinder (blue)
9 (9) l: giant_newt (green), giant_gecko (yellow), iguana (blue), gila_monster (magenta), komodo_dragon (lightred), swamp_drake (brown), fire_drake (red), lindwurm (lightcyan), death_drake (lightgrey)
10(9) S: guardian_serpent (white), small_snake (green), snake (lightgreen), water_moccasin (brown), black_mamba (blue), viper (yellow), sea_snake (lightcyan), anaconda (lightgrey), lava_snake (red), aizul (lightmagenta)
10(9) z: zombie_small (brown), skeleton_small (lightgrey), simulacrum_small (etc_ice), wight (green), skeletal_warrior (cyan), flying_skull (white), flaming_corpse (red), curse_skull (lightcyan), curse_toe (yellow), murray (lightred)
13(11) 8: clay_golem (brown), wood_golem (yellow), stone_golem (lightgrey), iron_golem (cyan), crystal_golem (green), toenail_golem (red), electric_golem (lightcyan), ice_statue (lightblue), silver_statue (white), orange_statue (lightred), statue (lightgrey), training_dummy (lightgrey), roxanne (blue)
13(11) J: ooze (lightgrey), jelly (lightred), slime_creature (green), merged_slime_creature (lightgreen), pulsating_lump (red), giant_amoeba (blue), brown_ooze (brown), azure_jelly (lightblue), death_ooze (magenta), acid_blob (lightcyan), jellyfish (cyan), royal_jelly (yellow), dissolution (lightmagenta)
12(12) s: giant_cockroach (brown), giant_mite (lightred), giant_centipede (green), scorpion (yellow), giant_scorpion (lightgrey), spider (cyan), tarantella (lightmagenta), jumping_spider (lightblue), wolf_spider (white), trapdoor_spider (lightcyan), redback (red), demonic_crawler (lightgreen)
17(14) D: wyvern (lightred), dragon (green), hydra (lightgreen), ice_dragon (white), steam_dragon (blue), swamp_dragon (brown), mottled_dragon (lightmagenta), quicksilver_dragon (lightcyan), iron_dragon (cyan), storm_dragon (lightblue), golden_dragon (yellow), shadow_dragon (magenta), bone_dragon (lightgrey), holy_dragon (etc_holy), xtahua (red), lernaean_hydra (yellow), serpent_of_hell (red)
42(14) @: player_illusion (white), player (lightgrey), human (lightgrey), slave (white), hell_knight (red), necromancer (white), wizard (magenta), witch (brown), huldra (lightcyan), evil_witch (brown), forest_witch (green), trollkonor (yellow), vault_guard (cyan), shapeshifter (lightred), glowing_shapeshifter (red), killer_klown (black), paladin (white), demonspawn (darkgrey), demigod (yellow), halfling (lightgrey), terence (lightcyan), jessica (lightgrey), sigmund (yellow), edmund (red), psyche (lightmagenta), donald (blue), joseph (cyan), erica (magenta), josephine (white), harold (lightgreen), jozef (lightmagenta), maud (red), louise (blue), frances (yellow), rupert (lightred), kirke (lightgreen), norris (lightred), frederick (green), margery (lightred), eustachio (green), maurice (green), nikola (lightcyan)
17(15) e: elf (red), deep_elf_soldier (red), deep_elf_fighter (lightred), deep_elf_knight (cyan), deep_elf_blademaster (lightcyan), deep_elf_master_archer (lightgrey), deep_elf_mage (magenta), deep_elf_summoner (brown), deep_elf_conjurer (blue), deep_elf_priest (green), deep_elf_high_priest (lightgreen), deep_elf_demonologist (yellow), deep_elf_annihilator (lightblue), deep_elf_sorcerer (lightmagenta), deep_elf_death_mage (white), duvessa (blue), dowan (red)
18(17) d: draconian (brown), black_draconian (blue), yellow_draconian (yellow), pale_draconian (lightgrey), green_draconian (green), purple_draconian (magenta), red_draconian (red), white_draconian (white), grey_draconian (lightgrey), mottled_draconian (lightmagenta), draconian_caller (brown), draconian_monk (blue), draconian_zealot (lightgreen), draconian_shifter (lightcyan), draconian_annihilator (lightblue), draconian_knight (cyan), draconian_scorcher (lightred), tiamat (magenta)

debate about the corpse glyph

i saw that the default glyph for the corpses moved from ”%” to a christian cross. I cant accept hate towards religions, but all the related things may stay in a private sphere only, so i think this default glyph may be removed and restored to ”%” or anything else.

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dcss/brainstorm/interface/glyphs.txt · Last modified: 2015-07-09 13:47 by Saegor
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