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dcss:brainstorm:interface:classification [2011-12-21 21:39]
XuaXua
dcss:brainstorm:interface:classification [2011-12-21 21:39] (current)
XuaXua Page moved from dcss:brainstorm:item:classification to dcss:brainstorm:interface:classification
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 We also have a conflict between emergency items being coloured yellow and the flavour colouring of honeycomb and royal jellies. Should we change the colour of emergency items or remove the honey colouring? We also have a conflict between emergency items being coloured yellow and the flavour colouring of honeycomb and royal jellies. Should we change the colour of emergency items or remove the honey colouring?
  
-> Get rid of the coloring for honeycombs and royal jelly, please. Because of that coloring it never even struck my mind until reading this page that yellow was supposed to mean "emergency" while cyan means "good"; I just assumed both yellow and cyan meant "generally valuable item". --- //[[user:Brickman]] 2010-11-09 20:07//+> Get rid of the coloring for honeycombs and royal jelly, please. Because of that coloring it never even struck my mind until reading this page that yellow was supposed to mean "emergency" while cyan means "good"; I just assumed both yellow and cyan meant "generally valuable item". --- //[[user:brickman]] 2010-11-09 20:07//
 >> That reminds me: we have to document the items and spells colouring! --- //[[user:galehar]] 2010-11-09 22:52// >> That reminds me: we have to document the items and spells colouring! --- //[[user:galehar]] 2010-11-09 22:52//
->>> Done, partially. See below.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-27 00:25//+>>> Done, partially. See below.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-27 00:25//
 >> I'm glad I'm not the only one confused. At first I thought that yellow meant "slightly less dangerous than red", as in "Yellow Alert". Maybe swap yellow for something more intuitive?  --- //[[user:t0d]] 2011-05-27 11:16// >> I'm glad I'm not the only one confused. At first I thought that yellow meant "slightly less dangerous than red", as in "Yellow Alert". Maybe swap yellow for something more intuitive?  --- //[[user:t0d]] 2011-05-27 11:16//
 >>> I've checked, and it turns out that honeycombs and royal jellies are coloured yellow because they are preferred food for anyone and it's the default colour of preferred food items. See settings/standard_colours.txt. This is why blood potions for vampires and rotten chunks for ghouls are yellow too. I'm not sure about changing this. Available colours would be blue, cyan and white. We can use blue or keep it that way and document it. Porridge is preferred by any non-carnivorous. I'd change that to only herbivore 3 (Sp). --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-06-01 16:32// >>> I've checked, and it turns out that honeycombs and royal jellies are coloured yellow because they are preferred food for anyone and it's the default colour of preferred food items. See settings/standard_colours.txt. This is why blood potions for vampires and rotten chunks for ghouls are yellow too. I'm not sure about changing this. Available colours would be blue, cyan and white. We can use blue or keep it that way and document it. Porridge is preferred by any non-carnivorous. I'd change that to only herbivore 3 (Sp). --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-06-01 16:32//
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   * Light Magenta / Purple : is Rune or Orb of Zot   * Light Magenta / Purple : is Rune or Orb of Zot
  
-Note: Runes are Purple, but are not dangerous to use.  Recommend changing to white, akin to artefacts.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-01 00:56//+Note: Runes are Purple, but are not dangerous to use.  Recommend changing to white, akin to artefacts.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-01 00:56//
 > Technically, the orb and runes are lightmagenta, while the danger colour is normal magenta. --- //[[user:sxoz]] 2011-06-02 05:42// > Technically, the orb and runes are lightmagenta, while the danger colour is normal magenta. --- //[[user:sxoz]] 2011-06-02 05:42//
->> Thanks.  Like Cyan (and taupe), not everyone knows magenta, so I'm leaving in the alternative  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-02 18:45//+>> Thanks.  Like Cyan (and taupe), not everyone knows magenta, so I'm leaving in the alternative  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-02 18:45//
 >>> Sorry, I wasn't trying to correct you on purple vs. magenta, I was just pointing out that there is a difference between runes/orb and dangerous items (though it is difficult to tell the difference). However, this made me think that maybe it would be a good idea to list colours on this page with the actual colour names from the config files (which is why I used magenta instead of purple). --- //[[user:sxoz]] 2011-06-02 19:38// >>> Sorry, I wasn't trying to correct you on purple vs. magenta, I was just pointing out that there is a difference between runes/orb and dangerous items (though it is difficult to tell the difference). However, this made me think that maybe it would be a good idea to list colours on this page with the actual colour names from the config files (which is why I used magenta instead of purple). --- //[[user:sxoz]] 2011-06-02 19:38//
->>>> It is a little difficult to tell the difference; I'm of the mind that it should be changed.  Whichever color name is used is fine; I do wonder how much more work needs to go into this or if it should go to documentation.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-02 23:22//+>>>> It is a little difficult to tell the difference; I'm of the mind that it should be changed.  Whichever color name is used is fine; I do wonder how much more work needs to go into this or if it should go to documentation.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-02 23:22//
 ===== Descriptive Spell Colors ===== ===== Descriptive Spell Colors =====
  
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   * Red : discouraged by religion   * Red : discouraged by religion
  
-Not sure if there is a Dark Purple or what the color is for a god which promotes a spell.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-31 21:29//+Not sure if there is a Dark Purple or what the color is for a god which promotes a spell.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-31 21:29//
 > I removed default classification because unlike items, spells conceptually only have two states: memorizable or non-memorizable; genericized dark. > I removed default classification because unlike items, spells conceptually only have two states: memorizable or non-memorizable; genericized dark.
-> Was there a yellow color for spells?  For some reason I feel like there is one.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-02 18:54//+> Was there a yellow color for spells?  For some reason I feel like there is one.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-02 18:54//
 ===== Content ===== ===== Content =====
 Here we discuss individual items presence in each category. There's often some logic involved (especially for useless items) but I haven't put it here to keep the page clear. For example, potions of speed are not emergency items for Chei's worshippers and curse armour isn't useless to Ash's ones. Here we discuss individual items presence in each category. There's often some logic involved (especially for useless items) but I haven't put it here to keep the page clear. For example, potions of speed are not emergency items for Chei's worshippers and curse armour isn't useless to Ash's ones.
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 > It has been suggested that the scroll of fear lose its emergency status past a certain XL. Past mid-game, tt can still be useful, but can't be relied on. > It has been suggested that the scroll of fear lose its emergency status past a certain XL. Past mid-game, tt can still be useful, but can't be relied on.
   * scroll of fog   * scroll of fog
-> I recently added this one per [[dpeg]] suggestion's. [[kilobyte]] is strongly opposed. I think it can be extremely useful against packs of 'taur and smite/tormetting enemies. Is it enough to warrant it an emergency status? Maybe we can move it down in the good items category.+> I recently added this one per [[dcss:brainstorm:item:dpeg]] suggestion's. [[dcss:brainstorm:item:kilobyte]] is strongly opposed. I think it can be extremely useful against packs of 'taur and smite/tormetting enemies. Is it enough to warrant it an emergency status? Maybe we can move it down in the good items category.
   * potion of speed   * potion of speed
   * potion of healing   * potion of healing
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 > Potion of agility might possibly be classified as an emergency potion, at least in the early game.  Unlike the other two stat boost potions, agility directly reduces the amount of damage the player takes, on average. --- //[[user:dtsund]] 2010-11-09 22:03// > Potion of agility might possibly be classified as an emergency potion, at least in the early game.  Unlike the other two stat boost potions, agility directly reduces the amount of damage the player takes, on average. --- //[[user:dtsund]] 2010-11-09 22:03//
  
-> I would suggest putting the 3 GAIN potions, the XP potion and the scroll of acquirement into their own category; maybe make them white like artefacts?  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-27 00:33//+> I would suggest putting the 3 GAIN potions, the XP potion and the scroll of acquirement into their own category; maybe make them white like artefacts?  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-27 00:33//
  
 >> Looking at the list of potions, I noticed that they are almost all coloured. The only ones with the default colour are levitation, invisibility, blood and water. Porridge is yellow, but probably for the same reason as honeycomb and royal jellies. How about we remove the tactical potions from the good list and only keep the strategical ones? Berserk, might, agility and brilliance are normal. Magic is emergency. Acquirement, cure mutation, gain foo and experience are good. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-05-27 09:54// >> Looking at the list of potions, I noticed that they are almost all coloured. The only ones with the default colour are levitation, invisibility, blood and water. Porridge is yellow, but probably for the same reason as honeycomb and royal jellies. How about we remove the tactical potions from the good list and only keep the strategical ones? Berserk, might, agility and brilliance are normal. Magic is emergency. Acquirement, cure mutation, gain foo and experience are good. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-05-27 09:54//
->>> That sounds fairly sensible to me. --- //[[user:MarvinPA]] 2011-05-27 19:50//+>>> That sounds fairly sensible to me. --- //[[user:marvinpa]] 2011-05-27 19:50//
  
->>> Cure mutation is tactical; you might not want to cure that +3 AC to get rid of your -1 Dex.  The mutation-related potions (the 3 gains, mutation and cure mutation) should all go in their own related category.  Acquirement and Experience are super rare awesome standalone bonuses that should be their own thing (white like artefacts).  Food should get its own color.   --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-27 16:37//+>>> Cure mutation is tactical; you might not want to cure that +3 AC to get rid of your -1 Dex.  The mutation-related potions (the 3 gains, mutation and cure mutation) should all go in their own related category.  Acquirement and Experience are super rare awesome standalone bonuses that should be their own thing (white like artefacts).  Food should get its own color.   --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-27 16:37//
  
-> I'm not sure I really see the distinction between "good" and "emergency"; I see them both as "beneficial" and am not sure they need to be distinguished from each other by an arbitrary level of urgency.  I CAN, however, see a need for a color to distinguish RARE.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-27 16:37//+> I'm not sure I really see the distinction between "good" and "emergency"; I see them both as "beneficial" and am not sure they need to be distinguished from each other by an arbitrary level of urgency.  I CAN, however, see a need for a color to distinguish RARE.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-27 16:37//
 >> It's not arbitrary. Emergency items: you want to carry some with you in case you need them. Good items: you want to use them or stash them, there's no reason to carry them around. For now, the name of the categories are only in the source, but since we're documenting them, this one could use a better name, but I can't think of any. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-06-01 10:31// >> It's not arbitrary. Emergency items: you want to carry some with you in case you need them. Good items: you want to use them or stash them, there's no reason to carry them around. For now, the name of the categories are only in the source, but since we're documenting them, this one could use a better name, but I can't think of any. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-06-01 10:31//
->>> You could call them Arbitrary Items.  :-)   Thesaurus for Emergency (adj.) includes Security and Defensive, both of which have other meanings in a game that includes armor.  I say use Beneficial. --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-02 18:39// +>>> You could call them Arbitrary Items.  :-)   Thesaurus for Emergency (adj.) includes Security and Defensive, both of which have other meanings in a game that includes armor.  I say use Beneficial. --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-02 18:39// 
->>>> Utility Items.  --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-06-02 18:51//+>>>> Utility Items.  --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-06-02 18:51//
 ==== Bad ==== ==== Bad ====
   * curse armour   * curse armour
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   * scroll of noise   * scroll of noise
 > Scroll of noise can be useful. How about we move it to the dangerous items? > Scroll of noise can be useful. How about we move it to the dangerous items?
->> No, I don't think so. The only situation I know about where it's useful is for mermaids, which is an extreme edge case. All other times you can just shout, right? --- //[[user:Brickman]] 2010-11-09 20:05// +>> No, I don't think so. The only situation I know about where it's useful is for mermaids, which is an extreme edge case. All other times you can just shout, right? --- //[[user:brickman]] 2010-11-09 20:05// 
->>> Shouting has loudness 12 (with shoutitis 12/14/16, in dragon form 18), scroll of noise 25.  This can be useful eg. in the undead swamp end when you want to get denizens of the vault to get to you.  But yeah, it's a rare edge case.  And you can just cast Firestorm for a stronger effect :p --- //[[user:KiloByte]] 2010-11-09 20:20// +>>> Shouting has loudness 12 (with shoutitis 12/14/16, in dragon form 18), scroll of noise 25.  This can be useful eg. in the undead swamp end when you want to get denizens of the vault to get to you.  But yeah, it's a rare edge case.  And you can just cast Firestorm for a stronger effect :p --- //[[user:kilobyte]] 2010-11-09 20:20// 
->> Crawl really shouldn't tell the player that an item is useless when it's clearly not, though. I don't think noise's usefulness is that much of an edge case (no more so than immolation, at least). Edit: done. --- //[[user:MarvinPA]] 2011-05-27 09:25// +>> Crawl really shouldn't tell the player that an item is useless when it's clearly not, though. I don't think noise's usefulness is that much of an edge case (no more so than immolation, at least). Edit: done. --- //[[user:marvinpa]] 2011-05-27 09:25// 
->>> Then list noise as dangerous, since it draws potentially unwanted attention to the player when used.   --- //[[user:XuaXua]] 2011-05-27 16:35//+>>> Then list noise as dangerous, since it draws potentially unwanted attention to the player when used.   --- //[[user:xuaxua]] 2011-05-27 16:35//
 ===== Gameplay effect ===== ===== Gameplay effect =====
 Currently the categories are mostly used only for colouring items. Currently the categories are mostly used only for colouring items.
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dcss/brainstorm/interface/classification.txt · Last modified: 2011-12-21 21:39 by XuaXua
 
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