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dcss:brainstorm:god:propose:gold [2014-04-07 16:48] sgrunt fix header |
dcss:brainstorm:god:propose:gold [2014-05-22 14:35] (current) DracheReborn |
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| <fc #0000FF>The skill boost is not as novel as it was years ago, due to Ashenzari and Okawaru. Other options are possible. What I want is a short-term, noticeably (also on the main screen) effect. Stat boosts are out (already covered by Cheibriados and not so useable in short bursts). There are certainly enough other options: the glittering gold makes monsters skip a turn; or the fresh gold acts as a mimic attacking monsters; or also a plain EV boost.\\ However, for a start the skill boost is good enough: easy to implement and useful.</fc> | <fc #0000FF>The skill boost is not as novel as it was years ago, due to Ashenzari and Okawaru. Other options are possible. What I want is a short-term, noticeably (also on the main screen) effect. Stat boosts are out (already covered by Cheibriados and not so useable in short bursts). There are certainly enough other options: the glittering gold makes monsters skip a turn; or the fresh gold acts as a mimic attacking monsters; or also a plain EV boost.\\ However, for a start the skill boost is good enough: easy to implement and useful.</fc> | ||
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| + | > Comment from play testing: gold aura has changed into an ability that causes enemies in LOS to lose turns with a (I believe) 5% chance per gold pile. So the chance for a monster to lose a turn is (1 - (0.95^n)), where n is number of fresh gold piles. It feels to me that the effect of 1 pile is almost unnoticeable, but rises to a decent percentage when there are a few piles (4-5 is quite noticeable). IMO this would work better if the chance for a single pile to have an effect is higher (say 15-20%) with the effect of additional piles stacking less. Trying to pile enemy bodies on one location is tedious and really only works for relatively weak pack enemies. In addition, the current formula seems to be uncapped, so if one can somehow pile up 50 fresh gold piles, it would stop enemies 90% of the time. --- //[[user:DracheReborn]] 2014-05-22 13:43// | ||
| ==== Abilities ==== | ==== Abilities ==== | ||
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| Reasoning: without a gold cost, we're avoiding all interface pain --- the player can choose an item and rely that the power will work. I don't think it is overpowered: sure, you can duplicate the ring of Shaolin but perhaps you would have been better off duplicating something lesser much earlier? | Reasoning: without a gold cost, we're avoiding all interface pain --- the player can choose an item and rely that the power will work. I don't think it is overpowered: sure, you can duplicate the ring of Shaolin but perhaps you would have been better off duplicating something lesser much earlier? | ||
| Using an altar is not only flavourful, but also makes sure that you cannot duplicate some potion stack in the heat of battle. This is supposed to be a strategic power. If someone needs flavour for this ability: it is a parable on how the rich get more and more while the poor struggle.</fc> | Using an altar is not only flavourful, but also makes sure that you cannot duplicate some potion stack in the heat of battle. This is supposed to be a strategic power. If someone needs flavour for this ability: it is a parable on how the rich get more and more while the poor struggle.</fc> | ||
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| + | > Duplication really only works on a few items, because for a lot of equipment, crawl only allows use of one at a time so there's no point to duplicate, say, armour or weapon. So it's basically rings + consumables + wands and maybe evokables. IMO there's a big gap in the desirable items to dup - if you don't have a ring of slaying, or a good wand, or scroll of acquirement, is it worth using up the ability to get an extra blink scroll or haste potion? I think consumables could be a lot more attractive to duplicate if it works on stacks, e.g. your 3 EW scrolls become 6. Also adds an element of gambling - the longer you wait, the larger your stack will be - but can you afford to wait? --- //[[user:DracheReborn]] 2014-05-22 13:43// | ||
| === Call Merchant === | === Call Merchant === | ||
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| > Could be interesting for this to have a very, very low chance to offer a bazaar for a very steep price. Low enough that you're not likely to see the option more than once a game, if you see it at all. --- //[[user:twilightphoenix]] 2011-08-17 21:06// | > Could be interesting for this to have a very, very low chance to offer a bazaar for a very steep price. Low enough that you're not likely to see the option more than once a game, if you see it at all. --- //[[user:twilightphoenix]] 2011-08-17 21:06// | ||
| + | > I'd like to change the cost of this so that instead of an up front payment, Gozag charges you a percentage of what you spent in the Called shop. And perhaps make it a passive - periodically Gozag sponsors shops to open and he will take his cut from you if you buy anything. Personally I've found the gold cost too high for too big of a gamble (I'd rather spend the same amount on 2-3 Potion Petitions) but perhaps that's just me. --- //[[user:DracheReborn]] 2014-05-22 13:43// | ||
| === Bribe Branch === | === Bribe Branch === | ||
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| >> I think you (Wensleydale and nyaa) didn't understand where I was coming from. It was precisely my goal to make bribing //unlike// a spell (or most other abilities). I don't want players to spend money in sight of certain monsters and thereby possibly affecting them, for a number of reasons: (a) it is more of the same (similar to enslavement, confusion, Zin Recite...); (b1) if it does not work reliably, it will be annoying whenever it fails (as the money is spent); (b2) if it does work reliably (as proposed above), it is a huge balancing problem (you can pick up allies for very little investment: choose between ally and kill); (c) it makes bribery an ever-present tactical choice (of which there are many), whereas my proposal tries to make (choice of branches to sink gold into) a strategical choice, of which we have less; (d) it does not clean up the interface: having to use the ability like a spell requires much more input than just specifying a branch in some prompt; (e) it does not evoke the flavour I want: instead of giving money to some fellow in the dungeon, you are buying the system: you just throw out the cash, and traitors will inevitably appear. | >> I think you (Wensleydale and nyaa) didn't understand where I was coming from. It was precisely my goal to make bribing //unlike// a spell (or most other abilities). I don't want players to spend money in sight of certain monsters and thereby possibly affecting them, for a number of reasons: (a) it is more of the same (similar to enslavement, confusion, Zin Recite...); (b1) if it does not work reliably, it will be annoying whenever it fails (as the money is spent); (b2) if it does work reliably (as proposed above), it is a huge balancing problem (you can pick up allies for very little investment: choose between ally and kill); (c) it makes bribery an ever-present tactical choice (of which there are many), whereas my proposal tries to make (choice of branches to sink gold into) a strategical choice, of which we have less; (d) it does not clean up the interface: having to use the ability like a spell requires much more input than just specifying a branch in some prompt; (e) it does not evoke the flavour I want: instead of giving money to some fellow in the dungeon, you are buying the system: you just throw out the cash, and traitors will inevitably appear. | ||
| >> I thought about bribery for quite some time and am convinced that doing it globally is a good idea. --- //[[user:dpeg]] 2010-10-16 00:11// | >> I thought about bribery for quite some time and am convinced that doing it globally is a good idea. --- //[[user:dpeg]] 2010-10-16 00:11// | ||
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| + | I really like this ability in concept. In my playtesting though, there were some rough spots. In my run, I bribed Shoals and then Vaults. It turned out Shoals is perhaps the single worst branch to bribe, both because of low bribe-susceptibility monsters and relatively low number of monsters generated. Snake may have the same problem but looking at the numbers in the code, Nagas seem more bribable at least. This seems a problem to me because other people may try to bribe Shoals and end up thinking it's a useless ability. Bribing Vaults was fun though, the only problem being that I ran out of bribe money before V:5. Knowing that, I may not have started bribing until I was in, say, V:3. | ||
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| + | And that's perhaps the crux of the problem I see most with Bribe Branch. It really requires knowing a lot of things about how each branch works, how many monsters generate in each, and how bribable each type is. It would be nice if all these things can be communicated to the player in-game, or else to smooth out the Bribe function so these differences matter less. I don't have any ideas here though. --- //[[user:DracheReborn]] 2014-05-22 14:16// | ||
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| === Retribution === | === Retribution === | ||