Global Balance Concerns

This is a page where we can collect threats to global balance. Observations from your own games are welcome. As always, the are no clearcut definitions — being able to use some method for getting painlessly into the midgame could mean that it's just another working engine (yay!) or that something is overpowered (boo!). Writing these down and reflecting upon the points will help. Most of the topics here are not for short-term repair.

Ranged Combat

Melee Combat

  • I've been playing around with some fight simulations. The clear thing that has emerged is that by far the biggest effect of weapon skill is on attack speed. The corollary to this is that weapon skill is much less useful for the fast weapons. I've got a nice graph for this but don't seem to have image upload privileges :). For example, testing with Str: 20 Dex: 20 Lvl: 14 Fighting: 16 wielding either a +8 executioner's axe of chopping vs. a +8 quick blade of stabbing, you find that expected damage per round with the axe goes up with skill from 7/round at skill 1 to 32/round with skill 27, with the curve getting steeper at higher skill levels (going from skill 25 to 26 adds 4 damage/round!). With the quick blade, there's a steep increase from 5/round at skill 1 to 12.3/round at skill 8 (when weapon speed hits 3). At skill 27 you get 15.2 damage/round. So with the quick blade, building your skill from level 8 to level 27 (which is a *lot* of skill points) raises your damage output by a measly 20%. The clear conclusion is that short blades-wielding characters should turn off the Short Blades skill at level 10 or so as the skill points are much better used elsewhere. I don't think that's desirable. — atomjack 2010-05-12 15:14
  • Weapon types don't seem balanced or well done. For instance, some weapons seem overpowered (holy scourge), and blessed blades have inconsistent boosts (and why only long blades should get those boosts?)
  • Speed brand is better than anything else, and is not so hard to find on hell knights (nerf to more than 1/2 speed?). Holy wrath is also a no-brainer barring speed (nerf?)
  • There are too many Multiply Random Bonuses, i.e. Damage is calculated as = (1+rnd(SK_FIGHTING)) * (1+rnd(SK_WEAPONS))*(1+rnd(STAT))*…, etc. As a result, due to the law of average numbers the player is always hitting for almost the same amount of damage bonus - it is only really randomized by the target's AC and initial base roll. This causes higher base damage weapons to be overpowered and low base damage weapons to be underpowered. sinsi 2010-05-15 23:58
  • UC damage formula gets really crazy later on, even compared to actual weapons. The base damage is 3 + UC; perhaps could be 3 + UC*2/3. — tgw 2010-11-07 19:30
    • If the great improvement at later levels of UC is removed, pure UC would be even more inferior compared to transmutation/unarmed (which trades in concentration on UC skill in exchange for boost from morph forms). Also pure unarmed combat isn't all that powerful for a non-troll even at skill level 27 compared to a late game weapon and just inferior to even a mid-game weapon until skill level 22 or so. Fsim test data with 21 dex/str and against a skeletal warrior:
+5 vorpal Battleaxe (human): (2.47 effective damage at skill 0; 5.94 at 13; 16.92 at 27)
+9 vorpal executioner (Human): (3.44; 7.57; 22.99)
Unarmed (human): (0.08; 3.77; 23.14)
Unarmed (ghoul): (0.23; 5.03; 25.97)
Unarmed (troll): (0.71; 7.14; 31.04) 
 
  1. ledtim 2010-11-08 00:14

>Doesn't it strike you as insane that even the best weapon is inferior to unaided UC of a race ill-suited to such combat? Especially if you recognize that in RL a grand master of martial arts is more deadly when wielding a knife, not less – and defenseless against a semi-competent user of an actual weapons unless he succeeds at disarming the opponent somehow. And you can add forms ON TOP of that huge damage. — kilobyte 2010-11-08 00:31

Forms are a separate issue from non-form using unarmed combat. Like I said, even +5 vorpal battleaxes are better than unarmed combat until skill level 22 or so, which is extremely late game. And the +9 vorpal executioner's axe is hardly the best weapon. I'm just using it as an example of a late game weapon. +9 battleaxe of holy wrath does (4.78; 11.19; 29.18) for example. And let's not bring realism into this, otherwise why would we even have unarmed combat as a separate viable weapon skill? — ledtim 2010-11-08 00:47
Note that while unarmed combat might be very powerful when the skill is near-maxed, it is generally inferior to a decent weapon mid game and player cannot use shields effectively. Consequently this means less possible resistance slots from randarts and usually no SH for a UC focused character. sealer 2010-12-11 02:14
All shields mean is that unarmed is more similar to multi-handed weapons in this respect than one-handed weapons. It's not a specific downside. — og17 2010-12-11 02:25

Gods

  • Wrath can in general be waited out: entombing yourself in the abyss with an amulet of stasis in lich form should be very effective for all forms of wrath
  • Nemelex Xobeh
    • Seriously broken: you can get arbitrary amount of decks by spamming decks and waiting for the countdown to expire. Then you get maximize XP and all skills via Sage/Experience, acquire arbitrary items/gold via Genie, visit an arbitrary number of bazaars with Trowel, and get a near-optimal set of mutations by alternating Helix cards, Jiyva's Cure Bad Mutation, and letting jellies eat decks to get Jiyva piety back. See 1568
    • You can draw Tomb and then Vitrification to create a situation where you can freely pelt the monsters with smite targeted spells and the monsters can only attack you the same way, which is rare. Furthermore, you can with several Tomb cards and Vitrification build a structure where one square is not visible from outside, and other squares can see everything through glass. Now, just cast Death's Door, get near the glass, shoot anything while being invulnerable, retreat to the same square when Death's Door expires, and cast it again. Only monsters with Dig cause you problems, but you can probably draw Tomb again if they dig it
    • It is possible to use stack five, and draw cards such that a deck has all cards of the same type. You can then abandon Nemelex, and his card shuffling will have no effect
    • The Shuffle card lets you create bizarre characters like awesome troll spellcasters by switching str and int
  • The Shining One
    • Seems overpowered for Hells/Pan/Tomb: probably at least one of hp/mp-for-kills, holy weapon, rN++ and daevas should get removed. Maybe move cleansing flame and divine warriors to Zin, which seems underused? — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • His wrath creates permanent holy beings, which leave holy wrath weapons and branded robes and shields on the ground when killed.
  • Okawaru
    • Abandoning Okawaru for The Shining One just before Crypt is optimal for melee players, to get both gifts and early might and later all the TSO features — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Jiyva
    • Necromutation allows to escape Jiyva's mutating wrath since you will rot instead, which is much more easily fixable (this can be combined with the Alter Self exploit above); Zin's mutation protection can do better, but requires having gold to buy piety. — luca 2010-05-15 04:26
      • If you can't avert Jiyva's wrath, abandoning the god would effectively be asking for your character to be destroyed, and if you put yourself back together afterwards, the only thing you'd have to show for your worship would be a bunch of empty dungeon levels. I don't know if I like how people milk Okawaru/TSO/Nemelex/etc, but I don't think Jiyva should be excluded. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
        • Well, you can use potions of cure mutation, with the downside of losing the good mutations too. Necromutation lets you keep them. You keep the changed stats anyway. Also some gods indeed leave you nothing to show for your worship (e.g. Makhleb). This is a very interesting design question though: should god worship leave you with something after you leave the god, or should the opposite be the case? (in a nutshell, should the gods give permanent gifts?) — luca 2010-05-16 05:57
  • Xom
    • Same mutation resistance issue as Jiyva
    • You can make sure to be in lich form at all times except when Xom is not bored, and you are a special toy, skewing mutations to be often good
  • Vehumet
    • Range extended Fire Storm and Ice Storm lets you reliably kill enemies without seeing them, and sometimes get your MP back as well. This can even be combined with Dowsing cards to know where the enemies are.
  • Sif Muna
    • Mana channeling is free in lich form
  • Makhleb
    • HP/MP for kills might be too strong
  • Fedhas
    • it may be possible to excessively ease Zot:5, Elf:7 and possibly others by blocking the entry corridor to the vault with deep water, and creating an Oklob farm behind it to pelt the monsters while being only reachable by flying ones
  • Cheibriados
    • Step out of Time used when Death's Door is expiring may ease or even break the game.
    • Controlled/semicontrolled blinking make slowness conduct much less of a nuisance, except for lack of Haste
  • Elyvilon
    • Elyvilon can be used for the sole purpose of training invocations before switching to The Shining One or Zin. This is due to the weapons-for-piety and the piety-less Lesser Healing
  • Kikubaaqudgha
  • Yredelemnul
  • Zin
    • Can be used to wait out other gods' wrath while getting fed and protected from mutation, and without downsides if you later switch to a non-evil god
  • Trog
    • Wrath might be too strong, especially if it hits while you doing an uninterruptible action like eating or switching armors
  • Lugonu
    • Corruption and self-banishment ease Zot:5, but not as much now that you can't easily breach the walls to skip the side rooms
  • Beogh
    • A piety drop when walking over deep water will kill you

Spells

  • Mephitic Cloud trivializes almost all fights with uniques, and most of the early/middle game enemies too (especially if you have poison resistance) — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Alistair's Intoxication is guaranteed to confuse Zot draconian and Vault:8 guards — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Semicontrolled blinking via Blink + teleport control is vastly overpowered (can save you from almost all situations) — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Semicontrolled blinking via Controlled Blink make “no-teleport-control levels” not much harder than ones with it enabled — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Abjuration makes enemy summoning almost totally ineffective — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Could be changed to a single-target spell so you could only banish one summoned monster per cast. — minmay 2010-12-30 01:52
  • Necromutation is a better choice than anything else for spellcasting all-runers. Move to level 9? Have a small chance of it abruptly ending on any turn, and make it have effect one/two turns after casting? (like “end transformation”) Make foodlessness temporary? — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • How about nerfing Necromutation by disallowing all regeneration while in Lich-form? I have been able to use troll-leather+rings of regen+sublimation of blood to easily farm Pan/Abyss. No natural healing (how do undead heal naturally?) would cause folks to have to spend a lot of time alive, thus needing rN+++, rC+, rPois, food, etc., making Necromuation a bit more balanced. — ubergeek 2010-11-23 16:05
  • Fire Storm trivializes Ziggurats (but this is somewhat fun, so maybe it should be kept) — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Fire Storm/Ice Storm/Shatter are very powerful, in Zigs especially. I read somewhere that there are plans to scatter monsters in Zigs a bit to make it harder. Also reducing irresistible part of damage or making a few monsters immune (Cerebov, orbs of fire to Fire Storm for example) could help. Maybe make Fire/Ice Storm destroy both scrolls and potions engulfed, and Shatter all potions on the ground in the area + some in inventory? This would provide some drawbacks to using it indiscriminately, though on the other hand characters that powerful rarely need consumables. — qui 2010-06-06 18:12
  • Several spells were never memorized by any winner, according to learndb: Warp Weapon, Tame Beasts, Symbol of Torment, Summon Wraiths, Static Discharge, Olgreb's Toxic Radiance, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Lethal Infusion, Ignite Poison, Bone Shards. Perhaps they should be buffed up or axed entirely. — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Are you suggesting that every spell be useful in Zot 5? Some of these spells may be questionable, but that's ridiculous criteria. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
      • I assumed that list was made by looking at the “Learned a new level X spell” notes, but indeed you are probably right that it was done looking at the final lists. Anyway, the “Learned a new level X spell” notes should be mined to find underused (and maybe overused too) spells to fix or remove, whether those are the exact results or not. — luca 2010-05-16 06:01
  • Haunt alone is able to win a non-extended game (up to orbs of fire, anyway). I keep meaning to give it a big writeup, but basically, it should be a tactical attack-equivalent “kill this threat now” option for summoners, not a “check out my ghost army” spell - summon duration is way too long. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
    • Haunt seems way overpowered. Reducing summon duration is a good idea, making some enemies immune could make sense too and be thematic. Seriously, haunting undead, demons, golems, orbs of fire? — qui 2010-06-06 17:26

Races

  • Mummies are inferior in all aspects to any other race in lich form. Perhaps they should get much more abilities as they level up to compensate for other races getting Necromutation. In addition, they might be too underpowered even without comparing to lich form. Example solutions: let them drink, let them use symbol of torment while immune, give them powerful smite, give intrinsic rElec rF+++ rC+++ as they level up, give lots of bonus AC/HP. Alternatively, heavily nerf Necromutation. — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Mummies are supposed to be “inferior,” and they have their good points regardless. Making them ridiculous doesn't seem like an overall balance improvement. Smiting could be fun, but it's not needed, and then there's the question of who's doing the smiting. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
  • The demonspawn Powered by Death mutation + kiku corpse delivery can be very powerful on certain levels, making the player nearly invincible. With 7 corpses within the radius, it is seven times faster than the regeneration spell (often regenerating 8-12 HP per turn!). Couple this w/ casting sublimation of blood on yourself, and during the duration of the effect the player is nigh unstoppable. This does not necessarily break the game, as many branches in the late game have few enemies who drop corpses (which is how the effect is triggered). I think the mutation might be more useful if it were easier to trigger, but not nearly so drastic (I think w/ 7 corpses it is akin to wearing 17.5 rings of regeneration!). — ubergeek 2010-11-23 16:14

Classes

Skills

  • There are FAR too many magic skills that only differ by spells they govern. I think it's wrong to have skills that only govern spell power/fail chance and dublicate each other - i.e. if you only use Mephitic Cloud from Air/Conjuration/Poison schools, you can train any of them, they are completely interchangable. You can also train generic Spellcasting for even better effect… —sinsi 2010-10-23 14:18
  • With level ups, it gets harder and harder to learn a different skill. I think skills should give you more flexibility in your character, and not force you to continue on the same path (making the game boring) —sinsi 2010-10-10 21:48
  • Not only is low level of Armor skill (1-2)completely useless, it is actually disadvantageous to the player. The problem lies with the formula - each point of any unneeded skill seriously slows the training of far more useful skills, even if you turn it off. It often actually outweighs racial preferences! How to fix: right now skill_cost_level returns total amount of skill points you have. It should count only skills that are at least half of the biggest skill level you have. —sinsi 2010-10-22 20:29
  • Having 1 or 2 level of armour helps if you're wearing leather. The armour skill does a lot of thing, not just boost the AC of you body armour. It also reduces your EVP, and the combat and spellcasting penalties of the armour. Now, having a few levels in armour doesn't prevent you from training other skills. If you had train another skill, your total_skill_points would be the same anyway. As you raise in level, you earn XP faster, and skill_cost_level is there to balance it. Racial aptitude determine when your skill changes level and skill_cost_level the rate at which you gain skill points, so they can't be so easily compared. — galehar 2010-10-22 22:52
    • For example, even a few points in the wrong skill will double the chance that acquirement goes wrong. — kilobyte 2010-10-23 15:22
  • Rename completely useless “Traps and Doors” skill into “Awareness”, use it to notice things - including your ability to see in fog/water vapor, see further than monsters, in the darkness, see invisible monsters (without the appropriate ability), chance to act normally under Confusion; also, recognize some items (or their “cursed” status). Somewhat duplicating what Ashenzari does… —sinsi 2011-03-23 14:44
    • Plus one. — XuaXua 2011-04-04 20:11

Stats

  • In general, AC should be much more effective than EV, since heavy armor impedes spellcasting: otherwise, there is no reason to use heavy armor instead of a robe of resistance. This does not seem to be the case in 0.6 — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • I actually agree with this; EV characters have free access to stealth, spellcasting, and dodging. Meanwhile, heavy armor's necessary str does nothing for survivability or much of anything else (and if the character'd gone EV, those points could've gone into dex for dodging or int for casting, basically giving armor double penalties for them). EV also avoids attacks cleanly, while AC eats every consumable-destroyer, corrosive, distortion banish, drain, etc. Point-for-point, AC should be better than EV. If someone puts the effort into casting in heavy armor, then good for them. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
    • In addition to what's mentioned above, armor gets penalized yet again by racial aptitudes. Only five races have positive armor apts, as opposed to twelve for dodging. And of those five races, all have bad casting aptitudes except for Kenku. It's okay for armor to impede casting, but there's already a set of penalties for that. Also consider that, say, High Elves have very similar weapon aptitudes to Mountain Dwarves and Hill Orcs, yet get a stack of magic aptitudes too, apparently in exchange for being a dodging race instead of an armor one. — squashmonster 2011-08-02 01:55
  • How about this mechanic: each point of AC has a 20% + ev_penalty + Armor Skill+ Armor_skill*EV_penalty/5 chance to block one point of damage. If it is above 100%, you get an additional chance (chance - 100) to block extra point of damage. Making EVP both a boon and a bane is a good thing. It'll provide more variety in armor pieces that has extra EVP - big helmets, cloaks, etc; right now gloves are not different from gauntlets, a little EVP can change that. This also allows to add various armor-piercing brands/abilities. Proposed change will make a difference between no EVP/high EVP armor and it'll also make a low level Armor Skill much more useful. Dragon armors are a problem in this aspect… Add a special bonus for them, like Elven/Dwarven? One that counts EVP as +2 for purpose of damage block or something like that. By just adjusting AC we won't be able to achieve similar effect - it'll only lead to AC inflation. — sinsi 2010-10-31 17:24
    • EVP is how much armour hampers evasion, and should have no direct bearing on how good it is at absorbing damage. You might want to try working with body armour base AC, or look into tweaking guaranteed damage reduction formulae. — mrmistermonkey 2010-10-29 20:59
    • (1) Armour can be stiff without increased absorption, and vice-versa (see (7)); these should be tracked separately, and are, as base AC (absorption) and EVP (stiffness). (2) You can base your formulae on base AC (by your example, crystal plate has a whole +10 AC over steam dragon armour, which could contribute a lot if you used base AC in your calculations), and EVP and base AC tend to increase together (but see (8)). Penalties and bonuses should be distinct in cases like this (see (7) and (8)), and as shown in (1), they already are. (3) What? That's described by the base AC. (4) Give them both EVP and more base AC and it'll all work out just fine. (5) What? I don't entirely understand the point of this, but you could adjust base AC too, and it'll all work out just fine. (6) Firstly, if that was entirely true, you could just base evasion penalty on weight, and use the current EVP numbers in your calculations, but that's dumb; however, it's not true (see (7)). (7) As a (pretty contrived) example of how this is incredibly silly, wrap yourself in a blanket, so you can't move your arms or legs very well. This is lightweight, not very protective, and incredibly cumbersome. (8) I've been over this in previous points, but I'd like to highlight it here: since EVP and base AC tend to rise together (except for dragon armours generally having a better base AC to EVP ratio than others), there's not much need to use EVP to do base AC's job (and this even breaks the distinction a bit, and that of any other armour types that deviate, should they arise: dragon armours are supposed to be more protective while less cumbersome, not squishy due to their magical flexibility). — mrmistermonkey 2010-10-29 23:08
    • This is wrong. Using leather armor has the advantage of training your armor skill. Also, there has been recently a change to armor enchantment that greatly nerf low AC armor. Now, you can't enchant an armor higher than its base AC. — galehar 2010-10-30 13:53
    • Also note that leather has more base AC than robes, and using base AC in your calculations would achieve a similar effect. I'm also pretty sure that attack delay increase for non-unarmed combat in armour was removed a while ago. As for AC inflation, note that when I suggested increasing base AC I mentioned doing it in addition to increasing EVP (and using the increased base AC for absorby calculations, and EVP for more dodgy things). On dragon armours, special-casing is silly; just use base AC in your calculations and let EVP do its own thing. — mrmistermonkey 2010-10-30 22:00
    • So I tried crunching your numbers, and they are insane. With 27 armour skill, fully-enchanted GDA (-9 EV) and aux slots (no mutations (e.g. black scales 3, demonspawn icy envelope) or spells or crazy +AC gear), I got a guarantee of absorbing 49 points of damage, and a 91% of absorbing each of 49 following points of damage. Are you out of your mind? — mrmistermonkey 2010-10-30 22:25
      • changed the numbers a little — sinsi 2010-10-31 17:24
You've hijacked the balance page with a bunch of feature requests which are only tangentially related. Find another page for this, please. — tgw 2010-10-31 15:35

Branches

  • Despite our plans, Shoals now provide more experience and more loot than Swamp (and probably also more than Snake). Of course, Shoals are also harder, but I am not sure if the current state is satsifactory. Time will tell, we can adjust the branches at any time. (greensnark just reduced Shoals xp to amounts of Swamp and Snake.) — dpeg 2010-02-22 12:22
  • Pandemonium might be too easy: in particular it's often quite possible to lure the unique lords somewhere else in the level, teleport to the rune, and teleport away. Perhaps the Pan lords should carry the rune in their inventory (same for Hell lords, but no-cTele and level layouts make that less of an issue there). Also, at least for some characters, the demons there are underpowered by the time the player meets them. — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Zot:5 is relatively easy for players having all runes, but this might not be a problem — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • You'd need some kind of scaling difficulty, as it goes without saying that Zot needs to be accessible to characters with three runes. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
  • The current practice of bringing distortion weapons to Pandemonium might be better made unusable, since it rewards spoilers and makes finding a gate to the dungeon meaningless. I think all banishment should be disabled in Pandemonium (except via entering gates to the Abyss) and gates to the dungeon made more frequent. This also solves the “banished by Lom Lobon's wizards and lost the rune” problem, which also heavily rewards spoilers. Banishment in Pandemonium Ziggurats should move the player to a new Pandemonium level instead of the Abyss. — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
  • Drawing cards in the Abyss until you draw Tomb (or, failing that, teleporting until you end up in a small enclosed area) and waiting 8260 turns makes getting the abyssal rune very easy. The abyssal rune generation probability should instead increase with the number of abyss squares seen, with teleports adding a penalty. In addition, the probability of generating it should scale with the number or rune possessed, so that for instance players having more 10 get get the abyssal rune very easily (at that point, it is just boring and not challenging at all to get it). — luca 2010-05-17 12:47

Items

  • Finding a staff of energy, staff of channeling, amulet of the gourmand or ring of teleport control drastically and abruptly changes the game for the better for casters — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Finding strong weapons or slaying drastically and abruptly changes the game for the better for melee characters. Good items are good. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
  • Most people either use a robe of resistance or gold dragon armour. Perhaps there should be no single “best” equipment (or “ascension kit”): how about making fire resistance and dragon armour give rF++, same for rC++, adding Clarity to poison resistance, making positive energy give rN++, adding rPois to storm dragon, and removing rPois from gold dragon? This way, there will be no single best armor, and all armors will give exactly two resistance levels, in non-overlapping ways. — luca 2010-05-14 08:58
    • Gold dragon armour has been nerfed in AC and EV penalty – I think it may be enough. I'm against making other armour better. Maybe just remove the robe of resistance? — rob 2010-05-14 11:03
      • That's an option which should fix robes, but I guess will still leave fire/ice/storm dragon armours underused. Maybe remove robe of resistance and leave other robes alone, but change the armours as I proposed, with the idea that robes get one resistance level, and armours get two? Alternatively, make the fire/ice/storm armours also act as a spell enhancer for fire/cold/air? (and perhaps make crystal plate mail enhance earth for symmetry, but not sure if this makes sense or is desirable) — luca 2010-05-14 11:36
    • EV armours: I don't think robe of resistance is overpowered, it does the same thing as robes of fire/cold res except that you don't need to swap them. It's a rare case to meet both fire and cold based enemies in one place. It may be a good idea to encourage alternatives, but not at a cost at meaningless annoyances like forcing swaps. What about, for example, generating more mottled randarts? — kilobyte 2010-05-14 12:05
      • Well, there are mixed elemental attacks at least in Elven Halls (casters with fire and ice, summoned fiends of all kinds), Zot (golden/storm dragons, orbs of fire, ancient lichs with bolt of cold), Vaults/Vestibule/lower dungeon (e.g. branded missiles, fire/frost giants, dragons), Dis (ice and non-ice fiends), Pandemonium (random pan lords), Abyss and Ziggurats. — luca 2010-05-14 12:21
      • By the way, it's not very important, but the robe of the Archmagi probably needs to be improved instead, by removing or reducing the XP penalty. How about removing any XP penalty, and instead requiring one or two spell skills at skill 27 to be worn? That fits the “archmage” theme, makes it more usable in the late-middle/end game, and still avoids a lucky find of it making the earlier game easier. — luca 2010-05-14 12:21
        • It's unlikely that giving high-end casters free enhancements and wizardry is going to do much for item diversity, particularly if the robe of resistance is simultaneously removed. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
    • AC armours: with the new mechanic, with good str you keep most of your EV in an ice/storm dragon while getting almost all of plate AC, that's a significant reason to use these. But, outside of dragon armours, it would be nice to see crystal plates _generated_ more often than once in twenty wins. With 0.7 new GDR, base AC is likely to make them tempting – except, you can't use them if you never get them. — kilobyte 2010-05-14 12:05
      • Indeed the higher EV on those might offset the low resistances. I'm not sure I like this, but that's subjective: wouldn't it be better to also make the resistances more balanced? — luca 2010-05-14 12:21
        • You're not casting in GDA, barring Chei. You might be casting in SDA. — og17 2010-05-15 06:19
    • General wisdom is currently to use either GDA or a robe because AC has a bad reputation in 0.6, so there are not many heavy armour casters running around. Storm dragon's rElec resist is competitive with the rF+ rC+ of a robe of resistance, as rElec is both rare and important. Removing the rC-/rF- of dragon and ice dragon armours seems like a considerable cost to flavor without a corresponding benefit to balance–both armours are desirable to similar characters, so a careful player would just wear dragon armour when going up against a bunch of ice enemies, and ice dragon armour when going up against a bunch of fire enemies. Swamp dragon armour gives a large amount of AC for a negligible EV penalty. I don't think the medium armours need buffing. — nrook 2010-05-15 08:29
      • rElec is only rarely important outside of Zot (esp. Zot:5), Coc:7, Pandemonium and early game electric eels and if you lack randart jewellery with that, you often have a rElec weapon and can wield it and escape. Casters also have Insulate. rElec-wise, it seems only useful for (very?) unlucky non-caster 3-runers (not worshiping Okawaru or Trog, who will likely gift a randart with rElec). It's possibly useful for the AC/EV balance though. — luca 2010-05-16 06:07
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dcss/brainstorm/gameplay/balance.txt · Last modified: 2011-12-22 00:28 by XuaXua
 
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