Draining Brand

b0rsuk 2009-12-12 12:16: I think Draining brand should be removed. Not because xp cost makes it undesirable. Because it's a fundamentally boring brand. It could as well be renamed to “of pillar dancing”. In case of Venom, time works to your advantage by damaging monster. In case of draining, it's a much slower process - decrease monster HD (mostly max HP) by a small amount, take damage, run away until healed, repeat. That's why I think Draining should be either removed or completely reworked. It's just not fun !

lemuel 2009-12-12 18:27: I agree that the brand could be better, but I'd rather not see it removed. It has a sufficiently different feel from other brands – works on a different set of monsters; flat damage rather than a multiplier; slight xp cost; and the permanent damage, which I like — that it's at least somewhat interesting. My proposed improvement: In addition to current effects, monsters drained should sometimes lose spells. Implement like so. (1) Each time a monster is drained (from any source), make a check of (HD lost) > random(old HD). If this is passed, pick a slot in its spellbook at random. If there's a spell there, remove it; if no spell there, no effect. So a successful hit on e.g. a Deep Elf Conjurer has a 1 in 6 chance of depriving it of one of its spells. This would parallel the effect on the player of being drained, and would make draining weapons more interesting against enemy spellcasters. (To make the effect more visible to the player, instead of just removing the spell, replace it with a new no-effect spell that generates the message, The foo tries to cast SPELL, but has forgotten how!)

dpeg 2009-12-13 02:38: I disagree with removing draining. First, the comment is strictly player-centric. Even if draining weapons were useless and unfun for the player, they could still be meaningful in the hands of monsters. Which they are, in my opinion. However, I also don't think that draining weapons are that bad for players — I use them, at least.
Now, b0rsuk's complaint is valid, but only in rather special situations: when the permanent drain effect is the only useful method to wear down an opponent. I've never used draining like that. Of course, everything can be improved, and I like Lemuel's idea. A few comments: Do we want players to lose spells when being drained? If so, there might be some abuse potential, even if small. We could also say that loss of spell slots from XL loss is the equivalent of monster spell loss.

The latter is what I had in mind. — Lemuel 2010-02-10 18:18
Permanent stat damage is the only truly unique part of Draining brand. Other than that, it's a generic +20% damage brand covering nearly the same creatures as Venom or Vampirism. I'm not impressed by the +20% damage brands, so it's no surprise I don't like Draining. — b0rsuk 2009-12-13 09:31

I think we need to introduce something new when the draining brand is in player's hand. It's meaningful in the hands of monsters. And, we have many more boring ego-types (flaming, freezing, vorpal), why remove this one? I mean, instead of removing, we should try to make them more different. — ahyangyi 2010-02-10 14:43

I fully agree with ahyangyi. I don't think negative energy (sorry) is going to get us anywhere. Personally, I dislike removing spells from monsters, since not many monsters cast spells and a good portion of those that do (primarily demons, undead, etc) are negative-resistant anyway. I would propose that instead draining could temporarily 'cripple' a monster instead of taking of HD or stripping away spells. A crippled monster would be significantly weaker in some way, like weakened or slowed, or maybe hit with torment. Their spellcasting abilities could be weakened, by, say, reducing the damage dice of a spell (a d10 becomes a d8) or making it easier to resist. I think the effects crippling would have on a monster would be monster-specific, as it isn't the body being weakened, it's the spirit being stripped away. — Incomp 2010-3-10 18:15

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dcss/brainstorm/effect/draining_brand.txt · Last modified: 2010-03-11 01:15 by Incomp
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