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dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:orbrun [2011-12-21 18:58]
XuaXua Page moved from dcss:brainstorm:orbrun to dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:orbrun
dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:orbrun [2012-02-27 12:25] (current)
Piu
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   * make **noises** (offsetting your stealth --- see Flavour below). **Partially implemented** by due (noises are made when the orb is apported and picked up, but not while carried).   * make **noises** (offsetting your stealth --- see Flavour below). **Partially implemented** by due (noises are made when the orb is apported and picked up, but not while carried).
   * <del>**resist apportation**, e.g. with a plain chance of Tloc/27. If apported (or just attempted to do so), ''The orb shrieks.'' There should be a line in the orb's description about this ("Only dedicated translocaters will be able to apport the orb easily."), and there should ideally be a prompt when trying (or just a message in the Apportation targeting: "Orb of Zot (hard to apport)").</del> **Implemented** by due.   * <del>**resist apportation**, e.g. with a plain chance of Tloc/27. If apported (or just attempted to do so), ''The orb shrieks.'' There should be a line in the orb's description about this ("Only dedicated translocaters will be able to apport the orb easily."), and there should ideally be a prompt when trying (or just a message in the Apportation targeting: "Orb of Zot (hard to apport)").</del> **Implemented** by due.
-  * <del>**increased weight**; this is good flavour for apportation resistance, and may make weak characters think about what they really need. **Implemented** (doubled the weight).</del> --- //[[user:MarvinPA]] 2011-05-27 13:09// +  * <del>**increased weight**; this is good flavour for apportation resistance, and may make weak characters think about what they really need. **Implemented** (doubled the weight).</del> --- //[[user:marvinpa]] 2011-05-27 13:09// 
-  * <del>interfere with **teleports** ([[user:jarpian]]) --- not so much forbid them, but rather (again, random, timed effects). **Partially implemented** (randomly increased teleport delay, randomly increased teleport fuzz, randomly preventing controlled blinks).</del> --- //[[user:MarvinPA]] 2011-05-27 13:09//+  * <del>interfere with **teleports** ([[user:jarpian]]) --- not so much forbid them, but rather (again, random, timed effects). **Partially implemented** (randomly increased teleport delay, randomly increased teleport fuzz, randomly preventing controlled blinks).</del> --- //[[user:marvinpa]] 2011-05-27 13:09//
     * randomly prolong the time until they kick in (by a few turns)     * randomly prolong the time until they kick in (by a few turns)
     * make the fuzzy area for controlled teleports much larger     * make the fuzzy area for controlled teleports much larger
     * occasionally disable cTele temporarily (announce this: ''The orb emits a powerful warping space.'')     * occasionally disable cTele temporarily (announce this: ''The orb emits a powerful warping space.'')
     * let the orb determine the destination (naturally, the downstairs) ([[user:jarpian]])      * let the orb determine the destination (naturally, the downstairs) ([[user:jarpian]]) 
-  * <del>**glow** heavily: it gets a halo-like effect (with a radius of 3 and of orbish colours). If you carry the orb, you still see the orb's halo. This glow translates to a permanent **corona** on the player, thereby removing invisibility.</del> \\ [Up to here, [[user:dpeg]] supports everything. The ideas for inconvenience below are less good, or at least more risque.] \\ This glow is mutagenic. Not that it'd matter much, but most characters would leave the dungeon as wracks. [[user:Lemuel]] argues that this might make character dumps less informative, but there are several ways around that. (For example by having orb mutations be special, and annotated as such, or taking a snapshot of the mutations list before taking the orb for the dump.) From time to time, the orb could also generate various clouds.+  * <del>**glow** heavily: it gets a halo-like effect (with a radius of 3 and of orbish colours). If you carry the orb, you still see the orb's halo. This glow translates to a permanent **corona** on the player, thereby removing invisibility.</del> \\ [Up to here, [[user:dpeg]] supports everything. The ideas for inconvenience below are less good, or at least more risque.] \\ This glow is mutagenic. Not that it'd matter much, but most characters would leave the dungeon as wracks. [[user:lemuel]] argues that this might make character dumps less informative, but there are several ways around that. (For example by having orb mutations be special, and annotated as such, or taking a snapshot of the mutations list before taking the orb for the dump.) From time to time, the orb could also generate various clouds.
     * If the orb can be apported, will it break this affect? --- //[[user:ubergeek]] 2010-11-23 18:17//     * If the orb can be apported, will it break this affect? --- //[[user:ubergeek]] 2010-11-23 18:17//
-    * What does this imply for followers of Zin?  Will it encourage renouncing Zin just prior to the Orb run? --- //[[user:JeffQyzt]] 2010-12-22// +    * What does this imply for followers of Zin?  Will it encourage renouncing Zin just prior to the Orb run? --- //[[user:jeffqyzt]] 2010-12-22// 
-      * I remember thinking something similar about how by this Zin would probably prefer orb destruction or some sort of sacrifice over preservation of the abomination.  --- //[[user:MrMisterMonkey]] 2010-12-22 15:48//+      * I remember thinking something similar about how by this Zin would probably prefer orb destruction or some sort of sacrifice over preservation of the abomination.  --- //[[user:mrmistermonkey]] 2010-12-22 15:48//
   * **slower movement** speed (but not combat speed, like Nagas) so enemies are more likely to catch up with you.   * **slower movement** speed (but not combat speed, like Nagas) so enemies are more likely to catch up with you.
   * jump out of the players backpack (**blink** to some empty square in LOS). This is not just for flavour, the jumping orb also means that you cannot teleport out of peril all the time. This effect should be linked to tension, i.e. occur only if something exciting happens, like the sudden arrival of forces (a strong demon, a Pan lord, or a group of orb guardians). The effect can also be used when the player is about to teleport (she can still decide to cancel the teleport.)   * jump out of the players backpack (**blink** to some empty square in LOS). This is not just for flavour, the jumping orb also means that you cannot teleport out of peril all the time. This effect should be linked to tension, i.e. occur only if something exciting happens, like the sudden arrival of forces (a strong demon, a Pan lord, or a group of orb guardians). The effect can also be used when the player is about to teleport (she can still decide to cancel the teleport.)
-  * **float** to the ceiling, so that you need to levitate to pick it up again, or else have to wait until it comes down by itself. ([[user:Lemuel]]) +  * **float** to the ceiling, so that you need to levitate to pick it up again, or else have to wait until it comes down by itself. ([[user:lemuel]]) 
-  * temporarily become much **heavier**, so heavy that you're burdened or worse. Again, either react (dropping things, increase strength), or wait it out. ([[user:Lemuel]]) +  * temporarily become much **heavier**, so heavy that you're burdened or worse. Again, either react (dropping things, increase strength), or wait it out. ([[user:lemuel]]) 
-  * **teleport** at random on the level. ([[user:Lemuel]]) This is very aggravating, so it should be very rare (think once in a dozen orb runs or so) and there should be orb-coloured clues to where the thing is+  * **teleport** at random on the level. ([[user:lemuel]]) This is very aggravating, so it should be very rare (think once in a dozen orb runs or so) and there should be orb-coloured clues to where the thing is
   * have mutagenic radiation randomly polymorphing nearby low-level enemies into Zot or stronger caliber enemies   * have mutagenic radiation randomly polymorphing nearby low-level enemies into Zot or stronger caliber enemies
   * occasionally cancels one or all of the enchantments/status effects you have going (except it won't cancel flight/levitation where it will kill you) --- //[[user:ubergeek]] 2010-11-23 18:38//   * occasionally cancels one or all of the enchantments/status effects you have going (except it won't cancel flight/levitation where it will kill you) --- //[[user:ubergeek]] 2010-11-23 18:38//
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 ====Flavour==== ====Flavour====
   * Messages when picking up the orb: "The gates of Pandemonium have opened," or, "All Pandemonium breaks loose!", which signal the change in monster generation. (This is also a great opportunity for story-telling and myth-building… there must be a reason why the powers of Pan are not happy if you steal the orb. We shouldn't explain that, but creating some thematic link between dungeon, Zot and Pan would be very nice.)   * Messages when picking up the orb: "The gates of Pandemonium have opened," or, "All Pandemonium breaks loose!", which signal the change in monster generation. (This is also a great opportunity for story-telling and myth-building… there must be a reason why the powers of Pan are not happy if you steal the orb. We shouldn't explain that, but creating some thematic link between dungeon, Zot and Pan would be very nice.)
-  * Purely cosmetic messages when carrying the orb: "The Orb glows purple and green," "The Orb pulses strangely", "The Orb emits a piercing shriek," "The Orb secretes a foul ichor", "The Orb smells of daffodils," "The Orb tries to squirm out of your pack," etc. [[user:Lemuel]] offered to write a script for these. +  * Purely cosmetic messages when carrying the orb: "The Orb glows purple and green," "The Orb pulses strangely", "The Orb emits a piercing shriek," "The Orb secretes a foul ichor", "The Orb smells of daffodils," "The Orb tries to squirm out of your pack," etc. [[user:lemuel]] offered to write a script for these. 
    
 ==== Rune scaling ==== ==== Rune scaling ====
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 Maybe there should be a fighting way to escape with the orb. Something that Oka and Trog worshipers could do with a good conscience. :) Maybe there should be a fighting way to escape with the orb. Something that Oka and Trog worshipers could do with a good conscience. :)
- --- //[[user:Kalma]] 2011-07-26 16:14//+ --- //[[user:kalma]] 2011-07-26 16:14//
  
 > It's called the orb //run//. You'd expect it to be harder when slowed. And if you're strong enough, you can fight your way through it. Also, I don't see it as a problem that Chei worshippers should take off their pondering armour before the Orb run. Again, it makes perfect sense thematically. And we're fine with gods not being equally useful at each point in the game. Chei being bad for the Orb run just make sense. The god is probably too weak and should be boosted in other ways, but that's a different problem. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-07-29 11:13// > It's called the orb //run//. You'd expect it to be harder when slowed. And if you're strong enough, you can fight your way through it. Also, I don't see it as a problem that Chei worshippers should take off their pondering armour before the Orb run. Again, it makes perfect sense thematically. And we're fine with gods not being equally useful at each point in the game. Chei being bad for the Orb run just make sense. The god is probably too weak and should be boosted in other ways, but that's a different problem. --- //[[user:galehar]] 2011-07-29 11:13//
->> We have the whole 0.9 and the Tournament to test it; if it proves to be a problem, we can let Chei slow down the spawn rate like he already does in the Abyss. --- //[[user:KiloByte]] 2011-07-29 11:58//+>> We have the whole 0.9 and the Tournament to test it; if it proves to be a problem, we can let Chei slow down the spawn rate like he already does in the Abyss. --- //[[user:kilobyte]] 2011-07-29 11:58//
  
 >> Currently you need very strong character to fight your way through it. Maybe when/if difficulty gets scaled by number of runes it could be an option. Killing could also reduce the "inconveniences" temporarily. >> Currently you need very strong character to fight your way through it. Maybe when/if difficulty gets scaled by number of runes it could be an option. Killing could also reduce the "inconveniences" temporarily.
 >> >>
->> //Orb run// (as some call it :P) does not need to be all about speed. As long as you prevent outright resting, a crawl can be just as exciting. --- //[[user:Kalma]] 2011-07-29 13:01//+>> //Orb run// (as some call it :P) does not need to be all about speed. As long as you prevent outright resting, a crawl can be just as exciting. --- //[[user:kalma]] 2011-07-29 13:01//
 ==== Map Alteration ==== ==== Map Alteration ====
  
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   * Other layouts of the orb chamber (this is possible now, see zot.des).   * Other layouts of the orb chamber (this is possible now, see zot.des).
   * Many of the teleport related proposals in [[#Inconvenience]] do this. Two more radical solutions which make the teleportation useless (which may be a bit more than we wanted):   * Many of the teleport related proposals in [[#Inconvenience]] do this. Two more radical solutions which make the teleportation useless (which may be a bit more than we wanted):
-    * Carrying the Orb of Zot prevents all teleportation (-TELE). This makes it a lot harder to 'ninja' the orb, without the hassle of adding multiple artificial roadblocks to Zot like statues and patches of no_tele. Additionally it'll make the Orb Run more interesting, since players wont be able blink or teleport away from any Pan lords on the ascent (unless they first drop the Orb).  --- //[[user:Mu]] 2010-09-21 21:28// +    * Carrying the Orb of Zot prevents all teleportation (-TELE). This makes it a lot harder to 'ninja' the orb, without the hassle of adding multiple artificial roadblocks to Zot like statues and patches of no_tele. Additionally it'll make the Orb Run more interesting, since players wont be able blink or teleport away from any Pan lords on the ascent (unless they first drop the Orb).  --- //[[user:mu]] 2010-09-21 21:28// 
-       *  I would rather this not happen as it would make the Orb run really tedious.  A lot of characters with just three runes probably aren't going to comfortably just deal with a Pan Lord, plus whatever else is around/is summoned and the game will probably devolve into dropping the orb, teleporting away, kiting away the Pan Lord (Or whatever is blocking your way), re-grab the orb and continue on.  Also, the run would be subject to all sorts of uncontrollables from the RNG and losing at that point because something spawned and trapped you with no real escape mechanism would be terribly frustrating.  The implications of including -TELE on the orb I think would serve to frustrate more than create an interesting run back up to the top.  --- //[[user:Kautzman]] 2011-05-25 21:07//+       *  I would rather this not happen as it would make the Orb run really tedious.  A lot of characters with just three runes probably aren't going to comfortably just deal with a Pan Lord, plus whatever else is around/is summoned and the game will probably devolve into dropping the orb, teleporting away, kiting away the Pan Lord (Or whatever is blocking your way), re-grab the orb and continue on.  Also, the run would be subject to all sorts of uncontrollables from the RNG and losing at that point because something spawned and trapped you with no real escape mechanism would be terribly frustrating.  The implications of including -TELE on the orb I think would serve to frustrate more than create an interesting run back up to the top.  --- //[[user:kautzman]] 2011-05-25 21:07//
     * Zot:5 itself is no_tele. This has the advantage that teleportitis is not a problem anymore. --- //[[user:dpeg]] 2010-09-21 22:27//     * Zot:5 itself is no_tele. This has the advantage that teleportitis is not a problem anymore. --- //[[user:dpeg]] 2010-09-21 22:27//
 +
 +=====More EPIC orbrun =====
 +The idea is: The Orb is really powerful artefact, which possibly would be helpful on the surface. So, why dont use some of its powers right here? Lets give player ability to gain some power through  eVoking the Orb. Or passive great bonus. Or new god-related abilities.
 +
 +Certanly, it should bring much more dangerous uprising, to compensate gained powers. May be spawn more enemies or god wrath after each eVoking. And some new uniques.
 +
 +I understand, that it's very global goal, but I suggest to change the way everyone look onto OrbRun. Not danger, but entertain.
 +I think, that the game is everything BEFORE orb. And EPIC ending would be great as a reward.
 +
 +And as bonus idea - hard, but awesome shortcut from Z:5 to surface. //[[user:Piu]] 2012-02-27 //
  
 ===== Priorities ===== ===== Priorities =====
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 === Nerf teleport === === Nerf teleport ===
-This is the most urgent thing in my opinion. Giving -TELE to the orb is probably too much and unnecessary. Let's see how we can nerf teleport and TC with some simple changes. **Done** (see above). --- //[[user:MarvinPA]] 2011-05-27 13:11//+This is the most urgent thing in my opinion. Giving -TELE to the orb is probably too much and unnecessary. Let's see how we can nerf teleport and TC with some simple changes. **Done** (see above). --- //[[user:marvinpa]] 2011-05-27 13:11//
   * <del>Give an "abyss-like" effect to the Orb: unreliable teleport, and slower to kick in. We can use the same effect as the abyss or a variation of it.</del>   * <del>Give an "abyss-like" effect to the Orb: unreliable teleport, and slower to kick in. We can use the same effect as the abyss or a variation of it.</del>
   * <del>Give a slight mutagenic effect to the Orb. Not enough to give you yellow glow by itself, but it would prevent the glow from TC to decay. Should seriously discourage controlled teleport at the slightest threat.</del> To recover from the glow, you'll have to drop the orb and wait it out. We might want to completely prevent apporting the orb or players could go around the problem by dragging it instead of carrying it.   * <del>Give a slight mutagenic effect to the Orb. Not enough to give you yellow glow by itself, but it would prevent the glow from TC to decay. Should seriously discourage controlled teleport at the slightest threat.</del> To recover from the glow, you'll have to drop the orb and wait it out. We might want to completely prevent apporting the orb or players could go around the problem by dragging it instead of carrying it.
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dcss/brainstorm/dungeon/orbrun.txt · Last modified: 2012-02-27 12:25 by Piu
 
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