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dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:swamp [2011-12-21 20:56]
XuaXua Links to dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:spider changed to dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:propose:spider
dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:swamp [2012-10-02 05:01] (current)
infiniplex Added box at top
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-===== Swamp =====+====== Swamp =====
 +^ Name| dcss:brainstorm:branch: swamp | 
 +^ Summary| Brainstorm for ideas to make swamp more interesting and less annoying. | 
 +^ Further information| | 
 +^ Added by| [[user:dpeg]] | 
 +^ Added on| 2009-12-08 05:06 |
  
 The current Swamp is hated by most (but not all!) and generally considered the "most annoying branch". Each of the following proposals is controversial. Note that on top of settling these issues, we also have to keep an eye on balance between Shoals versus Swamp. The original ideas was The current Swamp is hated by most (but not all!) and generally considered the "most annoying branch". Each of the following proposals is controversial. Note that on top of settling these issues, we also have to keep an eye on balance between Shoals versus Swamp. The original ideas was
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   * Both branches profit from levitation/flight but Swamp puts emphasis on rPois and Clarity whereas Shoals needs Evasion (ranged attacks).   * Both branches profit from levitation/flight but Swamp puts emphasis on rPois and Clarity whereas Shoals needs Evasion (ranged attacks).
  
-==== Philosophy ====+===== Philosophy =====
 There are wildly diverging ideas of what Swamp should be about. Let me just say that removal is not an option: the branch has unique layout, flavour and threat. We will change it, not axe it. The following are opinions expressed by players. There are wildly diverging ideas of what Swamp should be about. Let me just say that removal is not an option: the branch has unique layout, flavour and threat. We will change it, not axe it. The following are opinions expressed by players.
   * Swamp is annoying because auto-explore does not work. This forces us to play slow and makes the whole affair more tedious than necessary.   * Swamp is annoying because auto-explore does not work. This forces us to play slow and makes the whole affair more tedious than necessary.
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       * (new) Swamp: full exploration is not worth much but not downright harmful.       * (new) Swamp: full exploration is not worth much but not downright harmful.
  
-==== Layout ====+===== Layout =====
   * [[user:dpeg]]: Change terrain to have 50% water only on Swamp:1. The amount of water should increase per level so that Swamp:5 looks as now. (Or Swamp:5 could have even more water than now.)   * [[user:dpeg]]: Change terrain to have 50% water only on Swamp:1. The amount of water should increase per level so that Swamp:5 looks as now. (Or Swamp:5 could have even more water than now.)
     * I like the idea of Swamp:1 starting at 50% and Swamp:4 having the same water:land ratio as now, since Swamp:5 focuses on the rune vault. Giving Swamp:5 even more water (maybe even 100%, outside the vault?) could also be interesting, (as long as it doesn't adversely affect any branch endings), forcing non-magical non-evoking players to conserve those potions of levitation and use them tactically, or take refuge on the solid land in the rune vault. --- //[[user:Wensleydale]] 2011-06-13 23:07//     * I like the idea of Swamp:1 starting at 50% and Swamp:4 having the same water:land ratio as now, since Swamp:5 focuses on the rune vault. Giving Swamp:5 even more water (maybe even 100%, outside the vault?) could also be interesting, (as long as it doesn't adversely affect any branch endings), forcing non-magical non-evoking players to conserve those potions of levitation and use them tactically, or take refuge on the solid land in the rune vault. --- //[[user:Wensleydale]] 2011-06-13 23:07//
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     * Alternatively, if you've been idling (in terms of total turncount), the branch gets shorter. (Here, being slow removes levels.)     * Alternatively, if you've been idling (in terms of total turncount), the branch gets shorter. (Here, being slow removes levels.)
  
-==== Items ====+===== Items =====
   * [[user:dpeg]]: No items, no traps, no shops. Vaults are possible and contain huts, even with a shop, or dens to some beast etc.   * [[user:dpeg]]: No items, no traps, no shops. Vaults are possible and contain huts, even with a shop, or dens to some beast etc.
   * [[user:borsuk]]: Some item types would never be generated in Swamp: no scrolls, no potions, no ammumition (these types would easily decay); ideally no wooden items either. As for shops: witches' huts (only scrolls, potions, wands and jewellery). This would mean no armour, no weapons, no general stores.   * [[user:borsuk]]: Some item types would never be generated in Swamp: no scrolls, no potions, no ammumition (these types would easily decay); ideally no wooden items either. As for shops: witches' huts (only scrolls, potions, wands and jewellery). This would mean no armour, no weapons, no general stores.
  
-==== Monsters ==== +===== Monsters ===== 
-=== Frogs ===+==== Frogs ====
  
 Possible new frogs: Possible new frogs:
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 >>I think a more direct concern is that since Swamp already has mephitic and poison clouds, adding more poisonous enemies would be redundant, as the player's unlikely to be in the branch without resistance.  Curare or other effects are still interesting, though. --- //[[user:og17]] 2010-03-01 22:41// >>I think a more direct concern is that since Swamp already has mephitic and poison clouds, adding more poisonous enemies would be redundant, as the player's unlikely to be in the branch without resistance.  Curare or other effects are still interesting, though. --- //[[user:og17]] 2010-03-01 22:41//
  
-=== Others ===+==== Others ====
  
    * **[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther|Panthers]]**. Is Crawl's lack of cats intentional?  Panthers would break swamp's current cold-blooded stranglehold.  They could retreat to trees when wounded, gaining the properties of the above-mentioned "tree frog," and also be able to blink short distances from trees to the player, perhaps as part of an attack ("pouncing"), giving the monster both defensive and offensive terrain-based abilities.  I'm thinking they'd be about as common as shoal's alligator snapping turtles, give or take - their gimmicks would likely become tiresome if overused. --- //[[user:og17]] 2010-02-27 04:40//    * **[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther|Panthers]]**. Is Crawl's lack of cats intentional?  Panthers would break swamp's current cold-blooded stranglehold.  They could retreat to trees when wounded, gaining the properties of the above-mentioned "tree frog," and also be able to blink short distances from trees to the player, perhaps as part of an attack ("pouncing"), giving the monster both defensive and offensive terrain-based abilities.  I'm thinking they'd be about as common as shoal's alligator snapping turtles, give or take - their gimmicks would likely become tiresome if overused. --- //[[user:og17]] 2010-02-27 04:40//
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   * **[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hag_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)|Hag]]**: Essentially based on green hag from D&D. Swamp dwellers. Possibly water ogresses, a variety of ogre mage less tough but with spellcasting abilities who live isolated in some pond or river. Also one of the few native monsters which can wield weapons (by Roderic)   * **[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hag_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)|Hag]]**: Essentially based on green hag from D&D. Swamp dwellers. Possibly water ogresses, a variety of ogre mage less tough but with spellcasting abilities who live isolated in some pond or river. Also one of the few native monsters which can wield weapons (by Roderic)
  
-=== Done ===+==== Done ====
  
 [[graveyard:water_creatures_overhaul]] [[graveyard:water_creatures_overhaul]]
  
-=== Comments ===+==== Comments ====
  
   * [[user:borsuk]]: For monsters, I'm not sure what in particular people consider annoying. Mosquitoes and blowflies are nasty (they keep your health low), but easily killed. I think they should remain. Water creatures //are// some of the most annoying creatures in Crawl. I propose to remove all water creatures from Swamp except for Swamp Worms (because they matter). Slime creatures and wisps can be frustrating, but Slime Creatures are actually quite deadly in there - often you're forced to fight in open area, this is easily avoided in other branches. I don't like wisps, but I guess they should stay to keep conjurers on their toes. (Some places have to be challenging for conjurers, right?) Swamp Drake is the monster that supposedly causes players to only enter Swamp with PR --- but clarity works just fine. With just clarity, you discover how incredibly deadly Swamp Dragons's poison cloud is. I think swamp drakes can be taken care of with wands, no Clarity or PR. And yes, Swamp could use more hydras since early levels.    * [[user:borsuk]]: For monsters, I'm not sure what in particular people consider annoying. Mosquitoes and blowflies are nasty (they keep your health low), but easily killed. I think they should remain. Water creatures //are// some of the most annoying creatures in Crawl. I propose to remove all water creatures from Swamp except for Swamp Worms (because they matter). Slime creatures and wisps can be frustrating, but Slime Creatures are actually quite deadly in there - often you're forced to fight in open area, this is easily avoided in other branches. I don't like wisps, but I guess they should stay to keep conjurers on their toes. (Some places have to be challenging for conjurers, right?) Swamp Drake is the monster that supposedly causes players to only enter Swamp with PR --- but clarity works just fine. With just clarity, you discover how incredibly deadly Swamp Dragons's poison cloud is. I think swamp drakes can be taken care of with wands, no Clarity or PR. And yes, Swamp could use more hydras since early levels. 
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     * Remove death curses from bog mummies. Give them a stronger direct attack such as Bolt of Cold.     * Remove death curses from bog mummies. Give them a stronger direct attack such as Bolt of Cold.
     * Increase the frequency of vapours?     * Increase the frequency of vapours?
-==== Stairs ====+===== Stairs =====
   * Each Swamp level has exactly one (white) pair of staircases. (If we want to keep three white stairs, we could simply place them in a cluster.) Map generation should try to place upstairs far apart from downstairs.   * Each Swamp level has exactly one (white) pair of staircases. (If we want to keep three white stairs, we could simply place them in a cluster.) Map generation should try to place upstairs far apart from downstairs.
   * Each Swamp levels gets a rather large (random) number of (known and secret) shafts and escape hatches.    * Each Swamp levels gets a rather large (random) number of (known and secret) shafts and escape hatches. 
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