Not sure if we want it, but I have an old idea of Arachnid (player) race, which has a humanoid torso and a giant spider body. The best part of that idea was that they'd start with a god … that would give them only very minor powers, or even maluses. The god created this race to have them serve it, but detest them (looking at the above spider god idea, it probably detests the humanoid part). If you renounced, or took up another religion, the punishment would be pretty hard. This would be the defining trait of the player race, at least for early-midgame.
Religious classes would be unavailable for Arachnids. Transmuters might be the de-facto religious class for them, as with spider form, they would get the full benefit of the god.
Caveats: This is extremely similar (and very much inspired by) the Driders in Dungeons and Dragons. But the idea itself might still work very well, so maybe that's not so bad, considering all the other D&D'isms in Crawl. :) Other thing is, infesting the Spider's Nest with semihumanoids (equipment-users) makes it feel more like Snake Pit. I think it should be mostly an animal branch, like Swamp. We could put Arachnids into the rune chamber (as spider god servants) and into altar vaults.
Other Arachnid ideas:
incomp: Sounds pretty cool. Mind if I help flesh it out? If you do, too bad. At first glance this seems to conflict with nagas (obvious poison affinity, deformed body-like effects, stealthy) but I think Arachnids (I would prefer to just call them Driders) could be made quite different. Indeed as with nagas, I see them as having strong poison and stealth apts, as well as deformed body. I would also envision them with a good aptitudes in spellcasting, unarmed combat (fangs?), dodging, enchantments, T&D, and Transmutations, at the penalty of not being that great at anything else. I see them as being poor in the other elements besides poison. I don't hate the idea of them being good at necromancy. I would also give them speed 1.
No, I don't mind at all, quite the contrary. :) “Drider” is a name invented for D&D, so I'd rather not use it - might even be a copyright issue. And yes, they need to be something else than a cross between nagas and centauri (I think a fast movement speed and metabolism fits them well). I added some ideas above. Could have improved stealth and dodging when next to a wall, thanks to wall-clinging. — evktalo 2010-03-04 10:48I think Arachmanid would be a good name, it sounds cool, it fits the race, and other games don't use it. — aboleth 2010-11-06 21:42
Another benefit of wall-hugging might be that the spider can occasionally make a minor stab attack in combat due to attacking from an unusual direction. Yet this reliance on walls leaves me wondering how they'll deal with ranged combat. Oh wait, of course. Webbing. Free gladiator nets. Let me just say that I highly support making this race, or some similar one. How about simply giant spiders? Why require a human torso anyway? A full spider may not be able to make use of much equipment, and that is the real issue I see. Their pedipalps enable them to use wands and potions, but I can't imagine seriously giving them armor. And since they use fangs (unarmed combat), perhaps their fangs should use the stabbing skill as if they were daggers or short swords instead of how Unarmed Combat usually stabs. Another idea: they are capable of drinking blood just as well as eating meat, so they can satiate themselves if blood is all that's left of a foe. [BTW hi. I started this game last week and just joined here.] galven 2010-6-6 2:27If you want the god to be anything but a trivial concern (and thematically I think you should, as it seems awesome thematically and would help with differentiating it from the other classes), the answer seems simple to me. Penance with the spider god should not decrease with time, ever. Any retribution she performs will simply not reduce the counter; the only way to mollify her is to commit whatever actions normally gain you piety in her name (probably murder or sacrifice). Thus, if you abandon your creator you'll face her wrath for the entire rest of the game. To compensate, her wrath should be on the weak end of the scale (the obvious choices to me are summoning a bunch of the spider pit monsters and hitting you with a semi-resistable poison effect like from poison arrow, but there should probably be at least four) and the Driders should have an aptitude of 4 or 5 in invocations (to lure them away to some of the other gods, and because thematically they exist to serve. A Drider who converts to X will have much better invocations than a human who worships X, though he'll have to cope with constant attacks from his old god). There should be no altars to her but Driders should have an innate ability to resume worship anytime they have no god (though they'll still be under penance). With that in mind the Drider god herself should have some decent and invocations-dependant abilities (cure poison is obvious; summon spiders is obvious), but perhaps have piety that decays extremely quickly relative to the other gods or punish you for disobeying some strict rules. Setting aside the god stuff for the moment, if Drider enemies are going to be rare or unique to the spider cave perhaps all Driders should start with a “Drider Barding” that takes up the armor slot (and nothing fits in the boots slot) with EVP-1 and be forbidden from armor besides robes. Or possibly even from robes, meaning they're stuck with their starting armor (any drider enemies encountered should have a high chance of dropping replacement barding but for fairness it will be guaranteed to not be branded or an artifact; branded or artifact barding will be obtainable only by god gifts or acquirement and the Drider god won't gift armor. This lack of two slots to reliably hang a brand on will be one of the class's major weaknesses). Smart players who don't plan to convert to Okawaru will probably spend enchantment scrolls on their barding as soon as they find them since an upgrade is unlikely. That wall crawl thing sounds cool in theory but iffy in practice; in the main dungeon and a few branches you'll basically have it at almost all times, and in most other branches you'll have to work to get it at any point at all. That's not bad if it's a game-changing effect, but if it just makes him better at fighting or stabbing it is. So make it more pronounced–Driders adjacent to a wall have the same speed as spriggans and a stealth/evasion bonus and possibly be eligible for tier 3 stabbing on all attacks, and can move as if levitating if the destination is also adjacent to a wall. Driders not adjacent to a wall move at the same speed as a naga and take a big hit to EV. Combine with terrible ranged aptitudes (except throwing, for the nets/webs) and you'll have a race with a pronounced advantage in corridors and a pronounced weakness when a band of centaurs attacks in an open room. — brickman 2010-09-20 04:57
I don't like the idea of an arachnid species. Guess I don't have to explain why I am at odds with “driders”, but there's more: we have very many hybrids (intelligent beings which are part animal), many of them with a very classical mythological background. I am not convinced we need more of that. Secondly, there are spider monsters, but no intelligent ones. That's a reason (for me) not to add such a species. However, we do have Spider form. This is why I'd much rather add a spider god (available to all spiders) than a species. – [user:dpeg]
Aww. Side idea: perhaps there could be monster transmuter Spider God worshippers. — evktalo 2010-10-08 12:20
I really like the idea (although hate the name driders, much rather stick with Arachnids), although as dpeg said, there are lots of hybrids currently, which would make it difficult for them to stand out, especially as snakes and spiders aren't too different (in a way). However, the spider god does sound awesome, I like the idea of it 'trapping you in a web' (!) with its demands and punishments (especially full game penance). Also, having a god that really likes one specific spell/form could be very interesting (possibly extending/enhancing spider form and only granting abilities/piety in form?). This would have drastic gameplay effects though, although I can't work out what the specific difficulties would be, perhaps just too niche?. Although with spiders nest being promoted to a full branch, I can really see this being a great addition to that! Could we start up a new Spider God page? bim
I could definitely see having a Spider God that gives you spider-y abilities. You could raise piety through sacrifice and by poisoning stuff, and god abilities would include crossing webs, curing/inflicting poison, bonus to Spider Form, etc. At very high piety (kinda like TSO/Kiku/Lugonu and their bless weapon stuff), you could opt to permanently transform into a drider-esque form, which would give you several permanent mutations (deformed body, some sort of speed modification, inability to wear boots, etc.). This would have all the upsides/downsides inherent in those mutations, it would make Zin hate you, and it could activate the Spider God's perma-wrath (the god stays ticked at you FOREVER if you use her only to get her greatest gift). I could also see it restricting you to some sort of barding (I'd say centaur barding would be best, since there's not much point in adding in a new type of barding for anything less than a full-fledged race), but maybe just rendering you completely unable to wear boots is enough. To avoid hybrid confusion, you could make it so she doesn't accept any sort of hybrid or non-humanoid race (so humans/elves/orcs/etc. can worship her, but centaurs/nagas/felids/octopodes can't, nor the undead races since they can't transmute at all – not sure on what would happen with really big/small races or demonspawn/minotaurs/tengu/etc.). Or, instead of a permanent blessing at high piety, you could make drider-form a strictly temporary transformation given as the highest-piety-level ability (like Brothers in Arms or Step from Time). That might actually work better than the blessing, come to think of it. This might well merit a proposal page under the gods/religion section. — spudwalt 2012-10-14 06:57