Yredelemnul's Death Cobs


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Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 15:31

Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

I'll start by saying I think Yredelemnul's servant gifts are excellent aesthetically. The color scheme seems to based mostly on colors from white to black with a few other splashes of color. The gifts and the zombies together have this really cool undead host-feel. Then I get a Death Cob. Image

I'm ok with dungeon crawl cracking jokes toward the players but I feel this is destructive to the aesthetics. A few solutions would be to give death cobs a makeover, or to remove them from the Yredelemnul-gift list. I think something should be done.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 16:23

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Are you saying that Yred should lose Death Cobs as gifts because the tiles don't fit his color scheme?
On IRC my nick is reaverb. I play online under the name reaver, though.

Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 16:59

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

I mean, the gift of Death Cobs aren't really interesting in the first place. They are relatively weak at the time where they are being gifted, and don't really have anything to add to the party. You could say that about several of his gifts but it seems like it would be really no loss to have 13 yredelemnul gifts rather than 14 for aesthetic purposes.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 16:59

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

I guess if Zot ever gets a theme change from 'lel so random', a more sombre death cob tile might be in order. Death cobs are a bit crap anyway - their only meaningful role is as yred gifts; they're just tab fodder in Z - so perhaps we should do something more interesting with them.

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chasecapener

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 17:07

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

chasecapener wrote:I mean, the gift of Death Cobs aren't really interesting in the first place. They are relatively weak at the time where they are being gifted, and don't really have anything to add to the party. You could say that about several of his gifts but it seems like it would be really no loss to have 13 yredelemnul gifts rather than 14 for aesthetic purposes.


obviously, death cobs should have the ability to summon popcorn

Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 18:53

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Does anybody else think that sixfirhy movement would be interesting for death cobs? It fits the 'horror movie scarecrow' thing quite well. Perhaps also give them a scarier melee effect? A chance of rot, like necrophages, may be good, seeing as Zot is big on depleting your strategic resources anyway - whatever it is, the point is to make players not want to get hit by death cobs without making them into a high-level threat.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 19:03

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

death cobs have speed 25 and EV 15, don't give them chance to cause rot on attack, it's not fun.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 19:06

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

earLOBe wrote:the point is to make players not want to get hit by death cobs without making them into a high-level threat

"This enemy can't kill you but is a huge annoyance" is not very enjoyable enemy design.

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Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 19:16

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Sar wrote:
earLOBe wrote:the point is to make players not want to get hit by death cobs without making them into a high-level threat

"This enemy can't kill you but is a huge annoyance" is not very enjoyable enemy design.


I'm not normally a fan of that sort of thing, but Zot does quite a bit of that and it makes much more sense in Zot than anywhere else. Giving death cobs a strategic effect is one way of making them relevant where they would otherwise be pretty much ignorable. TBH, I'd ideally like to see a new rot in general, but strategic damage is most reasonable to hand out near the end of the game (as opposed to, say, getting an unlucky swamp ending).

EDIT: I also crapped out a sketch tile. It's literally been years since I worked on a sprite, so I doubt anything else I do will really improve it further, but if anyone more talented sees an opportunity for a new death cob... Image

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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 20:47

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Maybe, just maybe - Zot should instead focus on destroying you instead of annoying you to death.
A good example of a monster that destroys you is the classic orb of fire (very strong, ranged monster), the zenith of annoying is the existence of draconians (come in packs, not very strong, spam weak acid/fire/ice/napalm attacks).

But then again, what's stronger than a tactical loss of the will to finish the game.
take it easy
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!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 22:10

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Draconians score 13% of all recent zot deaths (92, not including tiamat), they're pretty strong imo.
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dck

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 22:27

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

That said yellow dracs remain scum of the earth.
And don't even get me started on callers.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 22:33

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

rchandra wrote:Draconians score 13% of all recent zot deaths (92, not including tiamat), they're pretty strong imo.


Is that all draconians? Because that includes shifters, zealots, callers (...death drakes), and so on. Besides, draconians' strength isn't a function of their ability to go 'oh, no cloak of cons/forgot to swap back from rmut? say goodbye to your consumables' but of the danger of getting surrounded or beaten down by a pack. Being able to poof your consumables the moment they enter LOS isn't interesting or even that tactical (and you can't even just hold down the sputterfly button like you can with mutators or yaktaurs).

Tomb Titivator

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Post Saturday, 16th November 2013, 22:41

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

dck wrote:And don't even get me started on callers.

Who wouldn't enjoy a monster summoner that spams god damn swamp drakes at your level 27 character's face (and no, I don't like to see more death drakes either).

And death cobs have bigger problems than their tile imo.
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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 03:50

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

earLOBe wrote:
rchandra wrote:Draconians score 13% of all recent zot deaths (92, not including tiamat), they're pretty strong imo.


Is that all draconians? Because that includes shifters, zealots, callers (...death drakes), and so on. Besides, draconians' strength isn't a function of their ability to go 'oh, no cloak of cons/forgot to swap back from rmut? say goodbye to your consumables' but of the danger of getting surrounded or beaten down by a pack. Being able to poof your consumables the moment they enter LOS isn't interesting or even that tactical (and you can't even just hold down the sputterfly button like you can with mutators or yaktaurs).


yeah, that was !lg * recent zot / killer=~draconian. looking at all killers, you get

sequell wrote:696 games for * (recent zot): 169x an orb of fire, 119x an Orb Guardian, 83x an ancient lich, 45x an electric golem, 35x a draconian, 19x a storm dragon, 14x a draconian monk, 13x a draconian zealot, 13x a draconian scorcher, 12x a draconian annihilator, 12x a golden dragon, 11x a deathcap, 10x a tentacled monstrosity, 9x Tiamat, 9x a hellion, 7x quitting, 7x a death drake, 7x a pandemonium lord,...
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 13:34

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Death cobs are bats.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 19:29

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

I don't think it's near as good as earLOBe's, but with some free time I tried to make a somber Death Cob for kicks. Image
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 23:29

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Image
Dearest Steve
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the plane crashed

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 23:42

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

pubby wrote:Image


Somber, not senile.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 17th November 2013, 23:44

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Perhaps he was thinking of a death cop rather?

(I really like death cobs. It's silly humour, but it's quite hard to get humour into a team-made project and comparatively easy to remove it.)
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 00:20

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

If death cobs need to be more threatening I'd just increase the damage a bit. Zot has nasty packs (draconians), normal brutes (tmons), supporting fellows (moths), so the fast melee monster is certainly a fine niche.
Won all race/bg, unwon (online): Nem* Hep Uka
Favourites: 15-rune Trog, OgNe/OgIE/OgSu (usually Ash), Ds, Ru, SpEn, Ce of Chei, Qaz
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 01:33

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

dpeg wrote:Perhaps he was thinking of a death cop rather?

(I really like death cobs. It's silly humour, but it's quite hard to get humour into a team-made project and comparatively easy to remove it.)

Subtle is the best, like the Indiana Jones vaults.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 01:42

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

rchandra wrote:fast melee monster

Orb Guardian?
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 04:15

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

chasecapener wrote:The color scheme seems to based mostly on colors from white to black with a few other splashes of color..


Wights, freezing wraiths, flaming corpses, phantasmal warriors, flayed ghosts, and profane servitors make up nearly half of all possible gifts; you can't just dismiss them as "splashes of color".
take it easy

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archaeo

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 14:39

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Are we really asking that we change death cobs from % to %?
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Monday, 18th November 2013, 17:01

Re: Yredelemnul's Death Cobs

Suggestion: Nerf death cobs, then make them always spawn neutral in Zot. You see this weird corn thing, laugh at its description, and it is immediately torn apart by draconian breath.

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