Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder


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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 15:44

Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

Singularity: (Level 9 Conjuration/Translocation)

Creates a smite targeted singularity on a square of your choice. Every turn, monsters within 3-4 squares of the singularity are sucked towards it (I imagine this would use code similar to Force Lance, but likely a bit stronger). Monsters on the targeted square take Iron Shot level/OOD damage every turn as their matter is absorbed by the singularity. Beams, bolts, and other projectiles that pass through the square containing the singularity are absorbed by it. Walls can be targeted when the spell is cast, which leads to their immediate disintegration. The effect lasts 3-9 turns (dependent on spell power).

The basic idea here is to add a new non-elemental level 9 Conjurations spell that has more flavor, and is a little more interesting, than the storm spells. It also gives players a reason to level Translocation school after they get Controlled Blink online, which is nice.

Totally open to comments/revision here. What do you think?
Last edited by Azrael on Monday, 16th September 2013, 22:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 15:59

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Sounds like a neat idea. Technically speaking, it would be a lot of work, and would probably cause lots of bugs, to allow more than one monster to occupy a space. If the singularity spat them out (teleport other or blink other) when they reached the center, that would avert that problem; but the Mgrid Exclusion Principle could still cause a bottleneck, particularly if the singularity is in a hallway.
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 16:04

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Sorry, that part wasn't clear :oops:
Only one monster is in the singularity at a time. The rest, when sucked in, just kind of bounce off of it until it dies and they can take its place.
On the other hand, the blinking idea is cool too. Maybe it should do that instead.

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 16:15

Re: New Level 9 Spell

This looks quite overpowered in that 1)it deals irresistible dmg 2)maneuvers monster movement 3) absorbs projectiles (which blocks quite a lot of spells and ammunitions).

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 16:20

Re: New Level 9 Spell

It would probably need a cooldown, like Tornado. Having more than one at a time would lead to much weirdness anyway. Being damaged and blinked when reaching the middle sounds much better than the original proposal.
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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 16:24

Re: New Level 9 Spell

nordetsa wrote:This looks quite overpowered in that 1)it deals irresistible dmg 2)maneuvers monster movement 3) absorbs projectiles (which blocks quite a lot of spells and ammunitions).


It's a level 9 two school spell, and one of those schools is never trained beyond a certain point. It had better be strong, considering the exp investment. It also only damages only one monster at a time, unlike all other level 9 spells. Besides, Tornado moves all monsters on the screen, AND does damage to all of them, AND requires less exp investment. Pretty sure it's not overpowered yet.

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 16:27

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Azrael wrote:
nordetsa wrote:This looks quite overpowered in that 1)it deals irresistible dmg 2)maneuvers monster movement 3) absorbs projectiles (which blocks quite a lot of spells and ammunitions).


It's a level 9 two school spell, and one of those schools is never trained beyond a certain point. It had better be strong, considering the exp investment. It also only damages only one monster at a time, unlike all other level 9 spells. Besides, Tornado moves all monsters on the screen, AND does damage to all of them, AND requires less exp investment. Pretty sure it's not overpowered yet.


I thought all monsters within certain radius would get damaged :? I think those who are getting sucked into the center should get some damage, as they are affected by the strong gravitational pull.

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 17:14

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Is there a limit to the amount of singularities? does it effect the player?

I like this idea (I like black holes) and I would go for something like translocation miscast or distortion brand effects for monsters sucked in.

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 17:36

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Probably should also affect items on the ground. I can totally see this being a last-resort escape route too. Maybe it can even send those inside to different floors...
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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 18:17

Re: New Level 9 Spell

It affects allies?
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Monday, 2nd September 2013, 18:51

Re: New Level 9 Spell

It would affect the caster and allies, yes. Same rule as Fire Storm: don't cast it on yourself :P

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Post Tuesday, 3rd September 2013, 10:45

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Make this spell Tloc/Earth, Conjurations already has two level 9 spells, and Shatter has problems with flying enemies. Name could be something like Gravitational Singularity (but probably less scientific). Effects should be the following (effect prefixed by MAYBE are optional):
  • pulls enemies (and allies!) towards itself: flying enemies would be affected more severely (note that it is a Translocation spell, so incorporeals aren't immune)
  • MAYBE make nearby pulled enemies flying to (1) lower the chances of lava abuse: "XY falls sideways over the lava" (2) protect them from Shatter
  • pulls the player towards itself -- it is unwise to cast it next to yourself (or cast blink/cBlink to escape, but see the next effect)
  • MAYBE pulls translocations towards itself -- creatures just emerging from a teleport/blink will emerge 1-3 squares closer to the singularity; may disallow/delay teleportation in the center
  • pulls items towards itself
  • can be placed on any wall except permarock (destroys it), may destroy rock walls around itself (radius 1-3, the latter is to prevent abuse in corridors)
  • pulls water and lava towards itself (doesn't change the ground, but water/lava balls are pulled up and hit the monsters around the singularity); destroyed walls also cause derbis to hit the victims
  • deals major physical damage to the victim in its center, this damage increases with time. Should kill popcorn in one turn and deal more damage during the full duration than LCS
  • the collistions deal minor physical damage to those who cannot be pulled closer and those who are hit by other monsters -- or alternatively this could be the main damage source and the center is simply the place where monsters are flying inwards from 8 directions (this would also make using it in corridors suboptimal)
  • MAYBE the singularity instantly abjures (or at least tries to abjure) summoned monsters it the center, to avoid it being blocked by a horde of imps

Stasis should protect against most effects, but not the following:
  • the pull towards the center is only reduced, not eliminated, as stasis doesn't stop gravity and lets the player to levitate
  • the damage from collistions (with flying lava/water/derbis/monsters) isn't reduced (being hit by a flying titan hurts) -- this way stasis could eliminate the base damage in the center and still make it unwise to stand there

Duration shall be probably relatively short (otherwise it's powerful to lock down enemies with this & run away) and/or the singularity disappears when the caster is far away to prevent abuse.
Projectiles should be blocked, otherwise it may be abusable to cast this between you and the enemy and shoot through it.
When casted, it destabilizes all other nearby singularities, making them disappear.

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Post Tuesday, 3rd September 2013, 12:49

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Speaking of Tornado, having both active would probably have odd results.

Also, if this can effectively immobilize a single target and do repeated iron shot-level damage to them, it would be one of the best anti-helllord/panlord/unique spells, since it can do repeated irresistable damage while you pound them with some other attack, and if you want to run away they can't follow you. This would be even more absurd if it still does damage when it leaves LOS, so it probably should vanish if it leaves LOS.

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Post Tuesday, 3rd September 2013, 18:00

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Lasty wrote:Also, if this can effectively immobilize a single target and do repeated iron shot-level damage to them, it would be one of the best anti-helllord/panlord/unique spells, since it can do repeated irresistable damage while you pound them with some other attack, and if you want to run away they can't follow you.

Maybe give it an effect kinda like Searing Ray? You could cast it to do insane damage to something, but you have to stand still and focus to keep the effect up.
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Post Wednesday, 4th September 2013, 00:17

Re: New Level 9 Spell

spudwalt wrote:
Lasty wrote:Also, if this can effectively immobilize a single target and do repeated iron shot-level damage to them, it would be one of the best anti-helllord/panlord/unique spells, since it can do repeated irresistable damage while you pound them with some other attack, and if you want to run away they can't follow you.

Maybe give it an effect kinda like Searing Ray? You could cast it to do insane damage to something, but you have to stand still and focus to keep the effect up.


Searing Ray is stronger than other level two spells for a reason. If you're going to give Singularity a similar limitation, you'd need to make it even more powerful than the other level 9 spells. I hate to keep using Tornado as an example, but it affects the whole screen, controls monster movement, lasts several turns, allows you to attack with other damaging spells, etc.-- level 9 spells are crazy powerful for a reason. Note that I don't object to the idea, if you'll buff the spell to match it, but then weird balancing things will happen.
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Post Thursday, 5th September 2013, 07:56

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Kickass spell idea.

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Post Thursday, 5th September 2013, 20:49

Re: New Level 9 Spell

video of new spell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkMWv2LXxLo

Spell is cast around the 36 second mark.
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Post Thursday, 5th September 2013, 23:55

Re: New Level 9 Spell

tasonir wrote:video of new spell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkMWv2LXxLo

Spell is cast around the 36 second mark.


See? Super effective. Should definitely be in Crawl.
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 00:30

Re: New Level 9 Spell

I don't actually know how to code/am not a dev, but this seems to have been a universally well received spell idea, and I would hate to see it vanish. Are any devs willing to add this to trunk and see how it does?

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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 10:44

Re: New Level 9 Spell

I think it being conjuration is appropriate. Translations is mainly an escape type of spell school. Forcing seems a good justification to make damaging spell.

I don't see point to make Translocation and Earth spells spell schools which would boost each other.

This spell + fire storm is gonna be damn strong, but it would require maxing 3 spells school, so i guess it is appropriate.
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 12:41

Re: New Level 9 Spell

siprus wrote:I don't see point to make Translocation and Earth spells spell schools which would boost each other.


I think Earth is applicable to the "gravity" aspect of the spell.
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 12:53

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Very cool spell idea. I think conjurations/translocations level 9 would be appropriate, though translocations and something else, level 9, could also work.

In terms of overpowered or underpowered, obviously that's going to depend a lot on the exact numbers. I don't think the way the spell would work, as described by Azrael, is necessarily more powerful than, say, a huge smite-targeted AOE partially irresistible high damage spell that also generates lingering fire clouds and friendly summons, all in one casting. Which is what fire storm does.

I would propose a few slight changes, mainly in light of the concern neil raised about implementation.

The spell creates the black hole at the place you select (smite targeted) that is not currently inhabited by a creature. (Like conjure flame, only better range.)

As caster you are immune to the effects, but all enemies in LOS will be affected. Each turn, 1dX number of enemies in LOS who fail a modified spellpower versus HD roll, will be "sucked in," meaning they are damaged heavily with distortion-type irresistible damage and blinked somewhere else randomly, in LOS. (They are also "spit out.") All other enemies in LOS have a chance (modified spellpower versus HD) of being drawn toward the singularity. This doesn't cancel the enemies' action, it just forces its movement back. The enemy can still cast spells, etc. After a certain number of turns the singularity collapses and all returns to normal. Cooldown in a effect for a few turns before recasting.

In both cases for the spellpower versus HD roll, the spellpower is modified based on how far from the singularity the monster is. Note that because HD is being used, not MR, no monsters in the game are immune to the effect.

I don't think the singularity should block or prevent projectiles, spells or otherwise.

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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 13:45

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Not every damage-dealing spell should be Conjuration (LRD, Ignite Poison, Shatter, Tornado), the Earth school alone justifies dealing physical damage and IMO a gravity-based spell should definitely be an Earth spell. Conjuration already has two level 9 spells, I don't think it needs a third one.

I think this spell shall only damage the victim in the center (this assumes that the center can be entered by a creature -- I imagine the created object not as a real black hole, but as a singularity with strong, chaotically changing gravitational forces in the center and gravitational forces pulling everything inwards around it), making this a primarily single-target damage-dealing spell (while Shatter and the other level 9 attack spells hits everyone in an area). I dislike the idea that the singularity spits out the victims, if we disallow placing it on a creature (like Conjure Flame) and/or randomize the exact position of the singularity (like Passage of Golubria) then it won't be possible to deterministically slay a powerful boss with its large damage output if it is partially soaked up by other targets sucked in the singularity before the boss (but it quickly kills the unlucky underlings and stops the whole band from following the player). Although I think it is acceptable to make this the ultimate spell against lonely powerful enemies while it is a lot less efficient against multiple enemies (and as it doesn't kill the victim instantly, you have to survive several turns of spellcasting/summoning from the lonely powerful enemy).

Also, the ability to stop foes from following you seems to be an interesting effect, I would like to see using this spell simply to stop enemies from following you while escaping (Orb run, rune stealing). I think the lots of damage to a single target over time + keep lots of enemies in a given place effect combination would make this an interesting spell with multiple possible uses.

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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 14:52

Re: New Level 9 Spell

nagdon wrote:Not every damage-dealing spell should be Conjuration (LRD, Ignite Poison, Shatter, Tornado), the Earth school alone justifies dealing physical damage and IMO a gravity-based spell should definitely be an Earth spell. Conjuration already has two level 9 spells, I don't think it needs a third one.


To be fair, by that logic, Earth already has one level 9 spell, and Translocations has none. For what it is worth, the closest thing the game already has to "gravity-based" damage effect is probably distortion damage ("Space warps around you!") which is associated with translocations. I think that is why Azrael first proposed it as Conj/Transloc, and why I suggested either that or Transloc and something else. Of course it can be whatever, in part this is all flavor-based. It may not be appropriate to give transloc a direct damage spell, seeing as being very powerful and useful while lacking damage spells is something that distinguishes T-loc.


nagdon wrote:I think this spell shall only damage the victim in the center (this assumes that the center can be entered by a creature -- I imagine the created object not as a real black hole, but as a singularity with strong, chaotically changing gravitational forces in the center and gravitational forces pulling everything inwards around it), making this a primarily single-target damage-dealing spell (while Shatter and the other level 9 attack spells hits everyone in an area). I dislike the idea that the singularity spits out the victims, if we disallow placing it on a creature (like Conjure Flame) and/or randomize the exact position of the singularity (like Passage of Golubria) then it won't be possible to deterministically slay a powerful boss with its large damage output if it is partially soaked up by other targets sucked in the singularity before the boss (but it quickly kills the unlucky underlings and stops the whole band from following the player). Although I think it is acceptable to make this the ultimate spell against lonely powerful enemies while it is a lot less efficient against multiple enemies (and as it doesn't kill the victim instantly, you have to survive several turns of spellcasting/summoning from the lonely powerful enemy).


Yes, this would be one take on the spell. I think something we all agree on as being essential to Azrael's proposed spell is reliably hindering multiple enemies' movement (a very powerful effect), while also having a damage component. Leda's Liquefaction is already in the game, but so long as this spell ends up being sufficiently different from that, I don't think we run into any problems with a lack of distinctiveness.

I'm unsure about having the damage component work by (if I'm understanding you correctly) very highly damaging only one target over the course of the spell, if that target cannot be actually targeted or selected directly. That could be interesting, but I could also see it being frustrating as a multiple-turn spell that can't be recast until after it is over. In the abstract, though, I do really like the idea of a spell that is more effective if fewer enemies are around, as it turns the MO of fire storm and tornado on its head. (And it might actually make it better for some high-level casters to think more carefully about their positioning and what enemies are in LOS, rather than just fire storm / ice storm/ shatter / tornado everything to hell.)
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 15:39

Re: New Level 9 Spell

I like it. I'd rather have it pure Tloc. Double school might be hard to balance if it damages a single enemy. As a double school spell, Earth/Tloc would be much better the Conj/Tloc IMHO.
I also don't like spitting them out and randomy blinking monsters. That would make it look more like disjunction and less like a singularity.
Alternatively, all monsters which are pulled toward the singularity but cannot move because of other monsters in the way take damage inversely proportional to the distance (or the square of the distance? ;))
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 15:56

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Btw should this spell pervent flying in it's range? Or pull flying enemies more strongly.


How would this spell work on top of lava and deepwater? + how often enemies are force pulled in singularity? Is chance higher closer you are to singularity.
I'd suggest something like this. 0 is center point being pushed there deals damage.
Squares marked with number 1 would force 80% chance of being pulled toward singularity. Ones marked with 2 would force 40% chance for being pushed 1 square towards middle and 20% being pushed 2 squares towards the middle. Squares marked with 3 would give you 20% chance being pushed 1 square .

Being pushed towards middle from squares marked with 1 would deal 4x damage, being in singularity would deal 6x damage and being pushed from square maked with 2 would deal 2x damage, hitting something would deal x damage to both of the targets.
I'm not sure how high the x should be. Maybe about 30damage? Of cource target in middle would be pummeled by other targets making this spell possibly dealing 420 damage to a single target. But dealing much less damage to other targets.

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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:33

Re: New Level 9 Spell

So, I guess the general consensus is leaning towards making this smite-targeted?

I'd advocate not making this a Conjurations spell; you're not really conjuring anything into existence, you're warping space. I'd also prefer to avoid the caster having immunity to the spell's effects; it seems more the kind of thing that would suck EVERYTHING in, including enemies, allies, loot, and yourself, if you're dumb enough to stand near it.

Also, would it make sense for this spell to destroy anything that gets pulled into the center (with obvious exception of runes/the Orb/maybe artifacts)? I had the idea of some sort of incredibly powerful black hole that crushes your foes but also crushes their loot along with them. You'd have to think more carefully about where you cast it; sure, once you've hit the point where you can cast a level 9 spell, you're probably carrying the best stuff you can have, but what if you run across a really tough enemy that has this one thing that you *really* want, or if you're fighting near a loot pile?
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:39

Re: New Level 9 Spell

spudwalt wrote:So, I guess the general consensus is leaning towards making this smite-targeted?

I'd advocate not making this a Conjurations spell; you're not really conjuring anything into existence, you're warping space. I'd also prefer to avoid the caster having immunity to the spell's effects; it seems more the kind of thing that would suck EVERYTHING in, including enemies, allies, loot, and yourself, if you're dumb enough to stand near it.


Well, based on what Galehar said, it seems like people are feeling Earth and Tloc, or just pure Tloc. Which would be interesting.

spudwalt wrote:Also, would it make sense for this spell to destroy anything that gets pulled into the center (with obvious exception of runes/the Orb/maybe artifacts)? I had the idea of some sort of incredibly powerful black hole that crushes your foes but also crushes their loot along with them. You'd have to think more carefully about where you cast it; sure, once you've hit the point where you can cast a level 9 spell, you're probably carrying the best stuff you can have, but what if you run across a really tough enemy that has this one thing that you *really* want, or if you're fighting near a loot pile?


I don't think so. What would it add to the actual use and enjoyment of the spell if this happened?

Galehar: You're right, my initial idea was way too much like disjunction. I still sometimes forget that disjunction is now a spell.

Nagdon: The more I think about it, the more I really like the idea of a spell that deals more damage and is more effective with any secondary effects, the *fewer* enemies are being affected by it on screen. Maybe this isn't the right spell to implement this with, but it is a very good idea for a new spell (whether this one or another).
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:59

Re: New Level 9 Spell

and into wrote:The more I think about it, the more I really like the idea of a spell that deals more damage and is more effective with any secondary effects, the *fewer* enemies are being affected by it on screen.

Why? In that case, you might as well just make it single targeted.
It's always better to have fewer enemies in sight. That's what makes AOE spells fun. They force you to take some risks to maximize their effect, which is fun.
If it's a singularity, it should affect the full LOS, but with only a slight effect at the edge, which you can easily overcome just by stepping away from it from time to time. The closer you get, the stronger the pull, the harder it is to get away from it. The point of no return begin around 3 steps.
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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 21:48

Re: New Level 9 Spell

I do not like this spell being earth based for two reasons, first being that earth refers to the substance not the planet, no earth spell in crawl has any relation to gravity (a force produced by any matter not just mud and metal). The second reason is that it breaks a balance earth would have two level 9 spells (that don't contain opposing schools like conjurations). I would make it pure Tloc or Conj/Tloc if you wanted to make it harder to get, either way it should be accessible from Vehumet.

the pull effect should be y/(r^x), where r is distance from the singularity. In Newtonian theory x is 2 making the inverse square law but other values can vary the range. y is the pull factor or pull at r=1. it should effect everything but up to a point it is negligible, and because of the grid system it would be probabilistic.

This spell should effect the caster (and allies) as a downside to the spell; shatter has it's noise; tornado depends on surrounding; like the storm spells, this is position dependant. This also shows how powerful the spell is thematically.

another possibility could be that any kills with the spell prolongs it's life and/or power (matter absorbed by a black hole makes it stronger) then give it a cumulative upkeep so it never gets out of hand.

This spell sounds like it shaping up to be good fun, It'll be a shame nothing to come of it.

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Post Monday, 9th September 2013, 23:35

Re: New Level 9 Spell

galehar wrote:
and into wrote:The more I think about it, the more I really like the idea of a spell that deals more damage and is more effective with any secondary effects, the *fewer* enemies are being affected by it on screen.

Why? In that case, you might as well just make it single targeted.
It's always better to have fewer enemies in sight. That's what makes AOE spells fun. They force you to take some risks to maximize their effect, which is fun.
If it's a singularity, it should affect the full LOS, but with only a slight effect at the edge, which you can easily overcome just by stepping away from it from time to time. The closer you get, the stronger the pull, the harder it is to get away from it. The point of no return begin around 3 steps.


As I said in the post you quoted, for this spell it probably doesn't fit, this spell already has a unique mechanic going for it. I just like the idea and am noting it (and keeping it in mind for future).

What I meant was a spell that wasn't single-targeted and had some damage cap so that a single monster would be a waste, but having too many enemies onscreen would hamper it in some way. I agree about AOE in general, but there is already tons of AOE, the thing I had in mind would be AOE too, it would just act slightly differently. I guess chain lightning operates a bit like what I'm describing, but I'm thinking of a different sort of thing.

At any rate, does modified spellpower (based on distance from singularity) vs. HD being the chance of being sucked toward singularity make sense at least?

(A public note to self: A different idea I had the other day—also not for this spell—is for a powerful damaging AOE spell centered on the *caster* (but not damaging caster) that instantly spread out to full LOS range, but with rapidly diminishing power as one moved outward. One turn to cast, like shatter but more interesting in how it damages. It would encourage even riskier behavior than what you describe for AOE, Galehar, but it could for that very reason provide in compensation strong and effective irresistible damage, for example.)
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Post Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 06:31

Re: New Level 9 Spell

and into wrote:(A public note to self: A different idea I had the other day—also not for this spell—is for a powerful damaging AOE spell centered on the *caster* (but not damaging caster) that instantly spread out to full LOS range, but with rapidly diminishing power as one moved outward. One turn to cast, like shatter but more interesting in how it damages. It would encourage even riskier behavior than what you describe for AOE, Galehar, but it could for that very reason provide in compensation strong and effective irresistible damage, for example.)

That looks a lot like Tornado.
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Post Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 10:47

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Anyway this spell would act as irresistible paralysis for enemy which spell is cast on. Maybe this spell shouldn't activate right away. Casting it too close yo yourself risk you being pulled in middle of it with monsters. Though since it is translocations spell you should be able to controlled blink away anyway. Maybe this spell should pervent blinking or teleport in 3 squares away from center. Or the damage it deal is so huge that you DON'T want to get stuck in middle of it. Even for a turn. Or targets which end blink in middle near it get pushed 3 squares towards it, though this might make disjunction too strong spell combination with this, you basically force any enemy in middle in escape-able are of doom.

Or big enough enemies should be able to walk away from singularity. (basically hell and pandemonium lords)

Also it would make little sense for projectiles fired from singularity to fly anywhere. Expect maybe lightning.

Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 13:00

Re: New Level 9 Spell

galehar wrote:That looks a lot like Tornado.


Yes, it would have to be differentiated from Tornado. I wasn't thinking of a spell that went on for more than one turn building up power, though, but something cast instantly like shatter, but with a different damage mechanic, plus some sort of secondary effect more likely to trigger on those near you. Of course that's very abstract, as I said it is just a vague notion at this point. And, in any case, I don't want to derail the thread any more than I have. I think singularity sounds like a good spell to try out.
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 02:00

Re: New Level 9 Spell

A) Liking the discussion, guys. I feel like this could shape up to be a great addition to the game.

B) I would prefer that this spell damage only one creature at a time, since that would differentiate it from other Level 9 spells and create interesting choices for the player (do I go straight for multi-target damage nuking, e.g. Fire Storm, or for single target high damage/field control?)

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Post Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 10:43

Re: New Level 9 Spell

I'd prefer it deal damage to targets which crash with each other in addition to damage to target in middle square. Damage other targets get should just be low enough so you wouldn't really want to learn this spell for aoe damage.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 15:01

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell

Thread renamed to a more useful and descriptive title
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 12th September 2013, 00:24

Re: New Level 9 Spell

Azrael wrote:B) I would prefer that this spell damage only one creature at a time, since that would differentiate it from other Level 9 spells


siprus wrote:I'd prefer it deal damage to targets which crash with each other in addition to damage to target in middle square.


how about damage on the target square but also damage to monsters which fail to move due to obstruction.

Also I think this spell should quickly die if left out of LOS (for the same reasons as the summon reform).
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Thursday, 12th September 2013, 22:37

Re: New Level 9 Spell

1010011010 wrote:
Azrael wrote:B) I would prefer that this spell damage only one creature at a time, since that would differentiate it from other Level 9 spells


siprus wrote:I'd prefer it deal damage to targets which crash with each other in addition to damage to target in middle square.


how about damage on the target square but also damage to monsters which fail to move due to obstruction.

Also I think this spell should quickly die if left out of LOS (for the same reasons as the summon reform).


It's more of a Conjuration than a Summon, and the fire/ice clouds from Ice Storm/Fire Storm/Freezing Cloud don't disappear when you move out of LOS. Keep in mind that this is a Level 9 Spell that primarily damages one creature at a time-- it should be very powerful.

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Post Thursday, 12th September 2013, 23:59

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell

Azrael wrote:It's more of a Conjuration than a Summon, and the fire/ice clouds from Ice Storm/Fire Storm/Freezing Cloud don't disappear when you move out of LOS. Keep in mind that this is a Level 9 Spell that primarily damages one creature at a time-- it should be very powerful.


Unlike clouds this traps a monster leaving it only spells to use, stepping out of LOS lets you pile on damage safely until the spell wears off, then repeat the process. It's grindy, no fun tactic but it would be the safest one on one fight method. This spell can be powerful even if it doesn't work out of your LOS.
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Saturday, 14th September 2013, 13:49

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell

True. Perhaps we could reduce the duration, but increase the damage?
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Wizlab Walloper

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Post Monday, 16th September 2013, 22:50

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

Edited the title to reflect the change in priorities.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 17th September 2013, 09:34

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

I'm willing to take a stab at it, though I'm afraid I'm still pretty much a novice crawl coder. This was my only previous effort, coincidentally also a TLoc spell, but which hasn't been accepted though.

Like everyone else in GDD, I have my own ideas on how I would like the spell to be, but from my point of view, this is YOUR spell and I'd be happy to code it up to your specifications. That said, there might be occasions where I'd say "If I do X instead of Y, it would be much easier for me". I won't know until I've looked at the code in detail though.

So if you like, put together as detailed a spec as possible and post it here, and I'll try to work on it over the weekend. Among the things I would need to know: what book should this spell be in, rough idea on power cap, what happens to monsters other than the target, etc. The original description is actually pretty good, so if you update that with more details that would work for me.

Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 21st January 2014, 20:47

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

Made it mostly. This thread reminds me: I should put a cooldown on it or limit the spell to one singularity out at a time.

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Post Tuesday, 21st January 2014, 21:02

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

A second singularity should suck both in, and there should be a giant explosion :)
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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 21st January 2014, 23:50

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

Thanks for coding the spell, I would like to see it in the game!

Some notes:
  • The "move monster closer to the singularity" effect currently always tries to move the victim diagonally towards the singularity if the victim is not in one of the four main directions. This means that in a situation like
      Code:
    ##..*
    M....

    (M=monster, *=singularity, #=wall, . = floor), the monster hits the wall instead of moving closer to the singularity. This could be interpreted as the monster manages to grab the wall to avoid falling into the singularity, but maybe this should be changed (if diagonal move fails, try an ortogonal move, or randomly try either the diagonal or the "better" orthogonal move). The current move system means that any monster which is not in an exact diagonal direction from the singularity will end up in one of the 4 squares orthogonally adjacent to the singularity; maybe this could be changed.
  • The order of iteration over monsters is important -- for example if monster 1, monster 2, an empty space and the singularity are in this order in a line, then if the monster 2 is tested first, it is pulled closer, then monster 1 can also move closer; if they are tested in the other order, the monster 1 immediately hits the other and doesn't move closer in this turn. Currently iteration order depends on the order in menv[] (monster_near_iterator iterates in that order); I think testing first the monsters closer to the singularity would be better.
  • The resistance check "(is_feat_dangerous(grd(newpos)) && !you.can_cling_to(newpos))" tests whether the target is dangerous for the player, not for the victim. Also it's a bit strange that a rat can mystically resist the pull if it'd fall into lava while the strongest monsters are pulled otherwise. I know that liquid-instakilling is not a good idea, but perhaps in such cases, the victim should get a short-duration flight instead ("the foo is pulled into the air") or at least lose its turn as it tries to cling to the ground.
  • Maybe stationary monsters (plants,...) should resist the pull.
  • In my opinion the player shouldn't avoid damage from being hit by pulled monsters, and maybe even the main damage could apply (like Fire Storming yourself is also a bad idea).

Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2014, 10:43

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

sage wrote:Made it mostly. This thread reminds me: I should put a cooldown on it or limit the spell to one singularity out at a time.


Thanks for taking it up. I only got as far as writing a tractor beam like function (the difference with yours is that in mine the strength of pulling is a function of weight and spellpower - in yours it looks like dependent on distance only).

Some comments (just from reading code, haven't tested yet):

1) There's a minor typo in your call to mgen_data - SPELL_FULMINANT_PRISM gets the blame/credit instead of SPELL_SINGULARITY.

2) It looks like there's no special handling for allies or for yourself for that matter. So you and your allies will get damaged same as anyone else? (Which is a reasonable approach I guess). Wait, does player even get damaged?

3) It looks like monsters can move away from the singularity if they want to. So monsters at range 4 faster than speed 10 should be able to escape the singularity's pull, e.g. if the monster is moving towards you, it might basically ignore a singularity placed to the side.

nagdon wrote:Thanks for coding the spell, I would like to see it in the game!

Some notes: [list][*]The "move monster closer to the singularity" effect currently always tries to move the victim diagonally towards the singularity if the victim is not in one of the four main directions.


Good comments here. For the first point, I'd suggest re-using apportation's code for pathfinding (basically it uses beam.path_taken).

For the third point (on rat being stopped by lava), I agree that monsters within the singularity's pull should just get Fly status. The pull is so strong it's levitating you over lava, etc. Agreed that stationary monsters should just resist (alternative is uproot, but that's a lot more complicated).

Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2014, 11:58

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

Also is there any reason the singularity can be harmed with hellfire?
It seems you want mrd(MR_RES_POISON, 3) | MR_RES_HELLFIRE | mrd(| MR_RES_COLD | MR_RES_ELEC, 3)
instead of
mrd(MR_RES_POISON, 3) | mrd(MR_RES_FIRE | MR_RES_COLD | MR_RES_ELEC, 3)

Have you thought about getting monsters to try to pathfind around the singularity?

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2014, 14:07

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

The singularity has 1000 hp and self-destructs after a few turns, being damageable by hellfire is probably not important.

Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2014, 15:05

Re: Singularity: L9 Tloc spell that is looking for a Coder

That sounds like a challenge for wizard made or the arena.
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