what next?

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 07:23 by halbyc

This is my highest lvl character ever, i'm beefily destroying everything i come across with my +6/+6 vampiric glaive, but I don't really have any magic items... no amulet, and i'm using rings of +dex and +evasion cuz i haven't found anything better... none of my armour is magic either except a +2 cape of magic resist... so with no resistances to anything, I don't really feel like I know what to do next... I cleared lair and orc, but didn't get any runes... I've never gotten any runes, not even really sure what it means, though I know it involves clearing one of the named branches. also I've been happy with my same glaive forever, but trog keeps gifting me weapons... makes me think i should drop trog and go to a diff god, but then again, without the summoned berserker ally I'd never make it thru some of these sticky situations

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd (tiles) character file. folkum von folkington the Impaler (DjBe) Turns: 37311, Time: 03:34:34 HP 132/132 AC 26 Str 24 XL: 15 Next: 79% MP 0/0 EV 11 Int 8 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 460 SH 0 Dex 17 Spells: 0 memorised, 14 levels left Res.Fire : + + + See Invis. : . B - +6 glaive (vamp) Res.Cold : x . . Warding : . J - +0 orc plate armour Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : . g - +2 dwarf helmet Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . L - +2 dwarf cloak {MR+} Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . M - +1 pair of orc gloves Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Flight : . G - amulet of rage Saprovore : . . . q - +5 ring of dexterity R - +4 ring of evasion @: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: berserk 1 a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage You are on level 18 of the Dungeon. You worship Trog. Trog is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 32 of its levels. You have collected 2388 gold pieces. You have spent 1948 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons e - a +0,+3 glaive of dragon slaying y - the -3,-2 bardiche of Impatience {chop, rN+ MR++ Dex+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 16 of the Dungeon) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It affects your dexterity (+1). It protects you from negative energy. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. B - a +6,+6 vampiric glaive (weapon) D - a +0,+3 anti-magic glaive Q - the +3,+3 glaive of Reinforcement {holy, rElec Str+3} (Trog gifted it to you on level 7 of the Dungeon) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It affects your strength (+3). It insulates you from electricity. Missiles a - 13 darts of flame h - 9 poisoned needles j - 20 darts of dispersal r - 6 javelins (quivered) Armour g - a +2 dwarven helmet (worn) J - a +0 orcish plate armour (worn) L - a +2 dwarven cloak of magic resistance (worn) M - a +1 pair of orcish gloves (worn) Magical devices c - a wand of fire {zapped: 2} d - a wand of disintegration f - a brass wand m - a tapered bone wand {zapped: 5} {tried} p - a wand of flame s - a wand of draining t - a wand of digging A - a wand of confusion (3) C - a wand of slowing (1) E - a wand of fire (5) F - a wand of magic darts H - a wand of flame I - a wand of slowing O - a tapered bone wand {tried} P - a shiny bone wand T - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 5} Scrolls i - 4 scrolls of identify W - 3 scrolls of blinking Jewellery q - a +5 ring of dexterity (right hand) G - an amulet of rage (around neck) R - a +4 ring of evasion (left hand) Potions b - a potion of heal wounds o - 8 potions of might u - 8 potions of curing w - 8 potions of restore abilities x - 2 potions of resistance z - 4 potions of brilliance U - 4 potions of speed Books S - a book of Callings Spells Type Level Summon Small Mammal Summoning 1 Call Imp Summoning 2 Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3 Summon Scorpions Summoning/Poison 4 Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning 4 Trog disapproves of the use of such an item. Miscellaneous k - a fan of gales n - a lamp of fire K - a lantern of shadows N - a fan of gales V - a phial of floods Z - a fan of gales Skills: + Level 12.6 Fighting * Level 19.7 Polearms - Level 3.3 Throwing + Level 13.3 Armour + Level 7.7 Dodging + Level 8.0 Evocations You have 14 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (19/27) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (4/4) D:8 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:13 Swamp (0/5) Lair:6 Spider (0/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:8 Vaults (0/5) D:15 Altars: Ashenzari Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Trog Vehumet Zin the Shining One Shops: D:5: /* D:9: ? D:10: }}+ D:11: = D:18: ? Orc:4: *%([* Portals: Hell: Lair:8 Annotations Lair:8 exclusion: 2 oklob plants Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are immune to all types of fire, even holy and hellish. You are vulnerable to cold. You need no food. You have no legs. You tend to lose your temper in combat. Grand Total: 1194 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | folkum von folkington, the Djinni Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 0/0 92 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. EP: 20/22 286 | D:1 | Acquired Trog's second power 548 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. EP: 29/29 806 | D:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Polearms 1069 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. EP: 33/35 1486 | D:3 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 1506 | D:3 | Noticed Ijyb 1544 | D:3 | Killed Ijyb 2033 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms 2033 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. EP: 37/41 2062 | D:3 | Acquired Trog's third power 2330 | D:4 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 2403 | D:4 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 2410 | D:4 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 2501 | D:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting 2730 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 2737 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 2737 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Polearms 2737 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing 2737 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. EP: 21/49 2991 | D:4 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 3145 | D:4 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 3189 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3310 | D:5 | Reached skill level 2 in Throwing 3333 | D:5 | Found Egiluph's Magical Wand Emporium. 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of confusion (11) for 116 gold pieces 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of magic darts (4) for 21 gold pieces 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of slowing (3) for 44 gold pieces 3491 | D:5 | Found Faddesk's Assorted Antiques. 3533 | D:5 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 3585 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. EP: 54/54 4027 | D:6 | Reached skill level 7 in Polearms 4062 | D:6 | Reached skill level 3 in Throwing 4625 | D:6 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 4883 | D:6 | Reached skill level 8 in Polearms 4888 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 4888 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. EP: 62/62 5211 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Polearms 5655 | D:7 | Reached skill level 3 in Armour 6051 | D:7 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 6333 | D:7 | Noticed Eustachio 6337 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Armour 6337 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. EP: 69/69 6385 | D:7 | Received a gift from Trog 6391 | D:7 | Got an iridescent glaive {god gift} 6414 | D:7 | Identified the glaive of Reinforcement {god gift, holy, rElec Str+3} (Trog gifted it to you on level 7 of the Dungeon) 6578 | D:7 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7058 | D:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms 7058 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 7655 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 7655 | D:8 | Noticed a green death 7657 | D:8 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 7658 | D:8 | Noticed an angel 8047 | D:8 | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting 8492 | D:8 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 8564 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. EP: 77/78 8770 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 8978 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 9203 | D:9 | Reached skill level 6 in Armour 9212 | D:9 | Found Ashaamim's Magic Scroll Shop. 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 36 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 66 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 36 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 66 gold pieces 9305 | D:9 | Noticed Maurice 9334 | D:9 | Killed Maurice 9334 | D:9 | Reached skill level 12 in Polearms 9567 | D:9 | Received a gift from Trog 9708 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 9934 | D:10 | Found Guampum's Gadget Shop. 9937 | D:10 | Noticed a cyclops 9943 | D:10 | Noticed Fannar 9953 | D:10 | Killed Fannar 9953 | D:10 | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting 9957 | D:10 | Killed a cyclops 9957 | D:10 | Reached skill level 7 in Armour 10152 | D:10 | Found Astroonemp's Gadget Emporium. 10330 | D:10 | Noticed Urug 10349 | D:10 | Killed Urug 10349 | D:10 | Reached skill level 13 in Polearms 10727 | D:10 | Found Pyastroax's Book Boutique. 10840 | D:11 | Found Noarae's Jewellery Shop. 10969 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 10975 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 10975 | D:11 | Reached XP level 11. EP: 85/85 11782 | D:11 | Noticed a six-headed hydra 11782 | D:11 | Noticed a fire giant 11782 | D:11 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 11796 | D:11 | Killed a fire giant 11796 | D:11 | Reached skill level 14 in Polearms 11796 | D:11 | Reached skill level 8 in Armour 11798 | D:11 | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting 11802 | D:11 | Killed a ten-headed hydra 11803 | D:11 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 11804 | D:11 | Received a gift from Trog 11996 | D:11 | Got an ancient scale mail 12015 | D:11 | Identified the +2 scale mail of Creativity {Int+2 Stlth+} (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon) 12038 | D:11 | Got an ancient blowgun 12039 | D:11 | Identified the blowgun of Nightmares {speed, rPois SInv} (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon) 12064 | D:11 | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation] 12064 | D:11 | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong, but stiff (Str +1, Dex -1). [potion of mutation] 12064 | D:11 | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong, but stiff (Str +1, Dex -1). [potion of mutation] 13073 | D:12 | Reached skill level 9 in Armour 13094 | D:12 | Noticed a hill giant 13112 | D:12 | Killed a hill giant 13501 | D:12 | Killed an unseen horror 13810 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Polearms 13919 | D:13 | Reached XP level 12. EP: 73/94 14137 | D:13 | Noticed Josephine 14155 | D:13 | Killed Josephine 14537 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 14542 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour 14643 | D:13 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14759 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14970 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Trog 15096 | Lair:1 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 15106 | Lair:1 | Killed a 11-headed hydra 15777 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 16 in Polearms 16162 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Trog 16163 | Lair:2 | Got a warped halberd {god gift} 16164 | Lair:2 | Identified the halberd of the Endless March {god gift, chop, Contam rElec MR++} (Trog gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) 17892 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Armour 17981 | D:12 | Reached XP level 13. EP: 102/102 18238 | Orc:1 | Noticed an orc knight 18250 | Orc:1 | Killed an orc knight 18344 | Orc:1 | Received a gift from Trog 18861 | Orc:3 | Noticed Sonja 19527 | Orc:3 | Received a gift from Trog 19722 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 19797 | Orc:3 | Killed Sonja 19925 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 20019 | Orc:4 | Found Hurinoud's General Store. 20142 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting 20152 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 17 in Polearms 20155 | Orc:4 | Found Vutunirgh's Food Shoppe. 20155 | Orc:4 | Found Isieran's Antique Weapon Boutique. 20158 | Orc:4 | Found Pneraenoi's Antique Armour Shop. 20160 | Orc:4 | Found Qoatexoi's Assorted Antiques. 21129 | Lair:4 | Received a gift from Trog 21233 | Lair:4 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 21240 | Lair:4 | Killed a 12-headed hydra 21240 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging 21320 | Lair:4 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 21327 | Lair:4 | Killed a 13-headed hydra 21844 | Lair:4 | Got an encrusted plate armour 21867 | Lair:4 | Identified the cursed -3 plate armour of the Wilderness {Dex-4 Int+2} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts) 22326 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging 23181 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Trog 23471 | Lair:6 | Found a labyrinth entrance. 23597 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 23706 | Lair:6 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 24061 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 24129 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Trog 24129 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 14. EP: 113/113 24141 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations 24176 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 18 in Polearms 24646 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 2 in Evocations 25262 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Armour 25490 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Trog 25793 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 26427 | Lair:8 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 26804 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 3 in Evocations 27939 | Lair:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 27955 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging 28066 | Lair:8 | Found a gateway to Hell. 28078 | Lair:8 | Got a crude buckler 28138 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 4 in Evocations 28450 | D:14 | Entered Level 14 of the Dungeon 29715 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 29907 | D:15 | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting 30049 | D:15 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 30458 | D:15 | Noticed Harold 30480 | D:15 | Killed Harold 31162 | D:15 | Found a staircase to the Vaults. 31248 | D:15 | Received a gift from Trog 31331 | D:16 | Reached skill level 19 in Polearms 31348 | D:16 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 31411 | D:16 | Found a staircase to the Vaults. 31594 | D:16 | Reached XP level 15. EP: 128/128 31759 | D:16 | Reached skill level 6 in Evocations 31830 | D:16 | Got a faintly glowing bone ring 31858 | D:16 | Received a gift from Trog 31859 | D:16 | Got a transparent bardiche {god gift} 31860 | D:16 | Identified the bardiche of Impatience {god gift, chop, rN+ MR++ Dex+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 16 of the Dungeon) 32610 | D:16 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 32999 | D:16 | the staircase to the Vaults was a mimic. 33112 | D:16 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 33274 | D:17 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 33835 | D:17 | Reached skill level 7 in Evocations 34047 | D:17 | Reached skill level 13 in Armour 34596 | D:18 | Noticed a quicksilver dragon 34619 | D:18 | Killed a quicksilver dragon 35817 | D:18 | Received a gift from Trog 35996 | D:18 | Found Xeyhuc's Magic Scroll Emporium. 36005 | D:18 | Bought 2 scrolls of blinking for 198 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 936 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon II for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36811 | D:19 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns 36814 | D:19 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 3 turns 36821 | D:18 | Reached skill level 8 in Evocations Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Spear | 146 | 325 | 488 | | || 959 Glaive | | | 182 | 774 | 2134 || 3090 Halberd | | | | | 5 || 5 Fire: Blowgun | | | | 34 | 9 || 43 Throw: Dart | | 46 | | 1 | 10 || 57 Javelin | | | 11 | 17 | 44 || 72 Spear | | | 1 | | || 1 Invok: Berserk | 3 | 7 | 14 | 14 | 30 || 68 Trog's Hand | | | 2 | 3 | 11 || 16 Burn Spellbooks | | | 1 | 1 | 2 || 4 Brothers in Arms | | | | 3 | 8 || 11 Abil: Evoke Berserk Rag | | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | 14 | 16 | 16 || 46 Miscellaneous | | | | | 3 || 3 Use: Scroll | | | 2 | 32 | 18 || 52 Potion | | | | 10 | 9 || 19 Stab: Distracted | | | 1 | | 1 || 2 Fleeing | | | | | 1 || 1

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 07:41 by nago

You were pretty unlucky with items, but a vampiric glaive can offset even that - I find strange you haven't found even an ego plate armour, have you tried to search one? ( ctrl-f then "plate armour && ego" ) If you've missed a rc+ plate, wear it and put all enhant scroll on it.

II wouldn't worry for lack of MR, Trog's Hand provides high bonus when you need it.
I'd stop to train dodging and evo, resuming dodging only after fighting and armour are 20ish and polearm 26. Stop to raise str on level up, raise dex instead.

For where to go next: spider and swamp are doable even without rpois, but there's no need to clear them right now (no good loot, only a rune in the final level). Your main problem is rc-, you may proceed into D or going in Vaults, but you'd need to be extra careful against monster with cold attack (frost giant, ice dragons, footaurs with cold branded weapons...)

If I were you I'd probably try to clear elf, as the loot in the final level could provide some better gear. It may be really dangerous, and things could worsen quickly, especially in the final level, so if you try it, tackle it very slow, and remember to use Trog's Hand and BIA every time you need it (elf is a piety mine for Trog anyway, so you can use both heavily).

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 07:51 by Sandman25

Don't berserk too often, call BiA instead. There is a chance to be paralysed for 1-4 turns after berserk unless you have 6 stars of Trog's piety.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 13:27 by Lasty

His loot doesn't look that bad to me. He's got a strong weapon, most armor slots filled with +2 items, including a cloak of magic resistance, and he's got a crazy number of the strong elemental evokables. He's got a ton of good consumables (some of which he should drop to avoid losing a ton of them to the next branded attack). This character should be fine in most situations, though he could really use some cold resistance.

nago's probably right that there's a better plate armour you could be using somewhere in the dungeon.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 15:03 by halbyc

thanks guys, no better plate anywhere, when you say i should drop some consumables, won't they get picked up by bad guys? and which ones should i drop? I've never set up a stash in any games before, though when i watched a youtube video a guy had a way to instantly teleport to a stash... is it like ctrl-w,1 then some command,1 to get back to it?

as a djinn there is no food clock, so you'd think a stash would make the most sense ever on this character, but i worry that if i spend too much time running around cleared levels i'll run into out of depth spawns or something

i've always died to random crap before i made it this far so my fear of random crap was already high, now it is combined with a fear of the unknown

i'll go try elf:1, thanks for the advice.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 15:11 by mopl

halbyc wrote:thanks guys, no better plate anywhere, when you say i should drop some consumables, won't they get picked up by bad guys? and which ones should i drop?

There are some places where you can easily stash things without them being picked.
Early game, you'll want Temple, and then Lair (1 or 2, 2 is often adviced) as animals here won't use your items.
Later on, if you are really scared of losing an item, you can stash on a teleport trap (if you have stasis or ctele), but otherwise, the corner of any room in the map is fine.

halbyc wrote:though when i watched a youtube video a guy had a way to instantly teleport to a stash...

I want this !! He probably set some options for auto_travel so you cannot see all way long

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 15:14 by nago

Monsters don't' move voluntarily towards objects, they pick up them only when casually walking over. Therefore, as long as you don't drop valuables object in corridors/near stairs/etc but in the corners of large rooms, it's almost guaranteed no item will be picked up.

The common stash is on L:1, but I usually leave the valuable but rarely used item (enchant foo, magic mapping, blinking, ... , cure mut, ...) right where I find them.

For now, you should drop one or two scrolls of blinking, 5/6 pots of healing and might, 7 of restore abilities, all brillance (you don't need them as Be), 1 of resistance and a couple of speed.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 15:56 by halbyc

i didn't know that, i feel much better about dropping crap in corners now thanks

i dropped those potions and scrolls, now i'm wondering about wands... i've been saivng every wand i come across, but i don't find myself using them, i usually only get 3 rounds before things are in melee range, and my javelins do more dmg than my wands even tho i'm training evocations... but maybe it's just cuz i don't understand which wands are good and which are crap... for example

wand of fire
wand of flame
wand of disintigration

i'm pretty sure these are like 'level 1 fire spell' 'level 2 fire spell' and 'level 3 fire spell' but i dont know what order... i'd think i'm better off dropping all of my wands except level 3 spells now, but i don't know which wands are sexy.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 16:02 by BlackSheep

Wand of flame is the equivalent of the spell Throw Flame, which is a level 2 Fire/Conjurations spell. Wand of fire is the equivalent of Bolt of Fire, a level 6 Fire/Conjurations spell. The latter does much more damage and can pierce through monsters to hit multiple targets.

Disintegration doesn't deal fire damage and has no spell equivalent. It makes a magic resistance check against monsters/players and deals moderate damage, but can instantly kill silver statues and orange crystal statues. It can also be used to destroy one square of rock/door/grating.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 16:36 by halbyc

Oh awesome, thanksblacksheep.

I keep using all the scrolls of enchant weapon i can find on my +6 +6 vampiric glaive, but it hasn't increased beyond that... max is +9 +9 ... what am i missing?

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 16:43 by BlackSheep

Enchant Weapon scrolls are only guaranteed to increase a weapon's enchantment up to +4. Beyond that, there is a failure chance that increases as the enchantment level goes up. So going from +6 to +7 has only a 33% of succeeding. Going from +8 to +9, only an 11% chance.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 17:01 by Siegurt

Wands and what they're good for:

Attack wands:
Wand of magic darts - Level 1 attack spell, does poor damage but always hits, can shoot anything in range, useful for attracting attention of one thing out of a pack, as it's quiet
Wand of frost - Level 2 attack spell, decent for the first few levels becomes pretty irrelevant later
Wand of flame - Level 2 attack spell, decent for the first few levels becomes pretty irrelevant later
Wand of draining - Level 5 attack spell, drains (does negative energy damage) to critters, can make them lower level, good for hitting highly armoured opponents, things that are immune to fire/cold, hits things in a line, so it can hit several opponents in a row (aim for the guy at the back) Very quiet so it doesn't attract attention.
Wand of lightning - Level 5 attack spell, hits things in a line, so it can hit several opponents in a row (aim for the guy at the back) Also bounces so if you can manage to aim at the wall behind someone you can hit him twice.
Wand of fireball - Level 5 attack spell, hits the targeted square and every one next to it
Wand of cold - Level 6 attack spell, hits things in a line, so it can hit several opponents in a row (aim for the guy at the back)
Wand of fire - Level 6 attack spell, hits things in a line, so it can hit several opponents in a row (aim for the guy at the back)
Wand of disintegration - Not really good for attacking, can be used in a pinch as it bypasses fire/cold/negative energy resistance, but can be resisted by things resistant to enchantment (see enchantment wands below) Good to have one around, as they can destroy nasty statues (orange, silver) and iron grates and the like. It's damage would fall in the roughly level 3-4 category were it a spell. I use it more as a "utility" wand.

Enchantment wands:
These wands are all resistable by the target's magic resistance, which generally gets higher the bigger the critter is, not always, but often, you can get a sense of how resistant a critter is by using x, then moving the cursor to a critter and hitting 'v'
Wand of enslavement - Temporarily makes a creature an ally, they will attack your opponents for you, note Oka dislikes it if your allies die. You can attack your allies (if you're sick of waiting for them to turn on you, or want to try to stab them) with control-Direction.
Wand of paralysis - Paralyzes the target for a short duration.
Wand of polymorph - Changes a critter into a different critter, sometimes a more powerful one. Use against things which are unusually dangerous for the level of critter they are don't use on hydras unless you like fighting dragons better.
Wand of slowing - Slows a target for a while, good to do to the leader of the pack to try to get away down a hallway.
Wand of confusion - Confuses the target for a short duration.

Utility wands:
Wand of teleportation - Like the scroll, zap yourself to teleport after a short while, zap a bad guy (resistable with MR) to make it teleport.
Wand of hasting - Zap yourself or your allies to move and attack 50% faster, one of the top wands in the game, keep it and recharge it. Causes glow (overuse will cause mutations)
Wand of heal wounds - Like a "heal wounds" potion, one of the top wands in the game, keep it and recharge it.
Wand of invisibility - Zap yourself to become invisible. . Causes glow (overuse will cause mutations)
Wand of digging - Digs through rock, creates passages, cannot touch stone, metal crystal, trees, iron grates, etc. If you zap a critter and nothing happens (not even a "they resist" message but the wand isnt empty, it's this one.

Wand of random effects - Does one of the above at random, I burn through the charges on this against mid-to-low level critters when I want to hurt them, but don't care how much, since most of the things it does will be damage.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 17:15 by halbyc

awesome! thanks siegurt! went down to D:21 with no problem fights at all, didn't get any new gear nor gain a lvl, but i bumped into Mennas, so I ran away, guess I'll go to elf now... I've never been to elf, my friend had many close calls in there cuz of all of the casters

stupid +0 plate, amulet of conservation +0 gloves and +0 helmet are taunting me!

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 17:42 by nago

Great list, just a little revision:
- wand of lightning is extremely loud, after using it, it's highly probable other monster will move near your location
- while wand of disintegration does little damage and check MR it don't miss, so it may be very useful against some dangerous enemies who have low hp/mr and high ev, like sonja or boggart. For the same reason wand of fireball isn't made totally obsolete by wand of fire.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 18:19 by ackack

nago wrote:If I were you I'd probably try to clear elf, as the loot in the final level could provide some better gear.

A person who has never gotten a rune before seems super unlikely to be able to safely do Elf:3 with this character at xl 15. It will involve careful tactics and many tricky decisions about when to use various consumables. Berserking will be riskier than usual because there are so many elves (meaning more are likely to show up during the Exh+Slow period); I don't remember if BiA can be abjured, but if they can there are many things there that will be happy to do so. All in all, I think Elf is a very bad idea.

I would probably do Vaults 1-4 at this point, switching to Spider if Vaults got too hard.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 18:27 by rebthor

Beat me to using disint on Sonja and other low MR mobs.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 19:28 by prozacelf

BiA cannot be abjured (unless they are just very hard to abjure, but I've never seen it happen).

Small addendum to the wand list: draining is equivalent to a lv 6 spell, not lv 5.

Polymorph wands are excellent against boggarts and some monsters with annoyingly good equipment and fairly low MR. Nessos springs to mind, but there are others as well.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 19:38 by rebthor

I was typing this up, but then remembered someone already did the hard work

Henzell wrote:Good targets for polymorph wand: killer bees, jellies, boggarts, harpies, electric eels, wasps, brown ugly things, and well-equipped monsters (e.g. orc knights).

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 19:42 by halbyc

oh snape! i cleared all of elf, got the treasure trove, upgraded to super sexy gear, then immediately died to a single high priest, who summoned a demon of frost... having vulnerability to cold, i took 60 dmg per turn... i used trog for more MR, then summoned an ally, then used a wand of healing (probably a mistake considering i'm taking 60 dmg per round) and i was dead. tada.

anyway that was my best run ever by far, super fun stuff.

So, out of curiosity, as a lvl 17 djinn, i assume my MR was 0... then i had an MR cloak, so now +1, then i got an amulet of MR++ so now 3... then i got plate of MR++ ... are those last two MR wasted? then I have troggs blessing which is even more MR... so I assume i actually capped MR at +1 and trog's blessing, so all that other MR gear was just beign wasted?

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 19:44 by halbyc

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-2496-g11650dd (tiles) character file. folkum von folkington the Phalangite (DjBe) Turns: 48472, Time: 05:06:18 HP 152/152 AC 33 Str 24 XL: 17 Next: 84% MP 0/0 EV 12 Int 9 God: Trog [******] Gold 786 SH 0 Dex 17 Spells: 0 memorised, 16 levels left Res.Fire : + + + See Invis. : + X - +4,+2 bardiche "Qienieh" {chop, -Tele SInv Res.Cold : x . . Warding : . z - +4 dwarf plate armour {rPois} Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . g - +2 dwarf helmet Res.Elec. : . Clarity : + L - +2 dwarf cloak {MR+} Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . M - +2 pair of orc gloves Res.Mut. : . Prev.Telep.: + (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Flight : . J - amulet "Blepn" {Clar +Blink MR++} Saprovore : . . . q - +5 ring of dexterity R - +4 ring of evasion @: extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: berserk 1 a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink You are on level 3 of the Elven Halls. You worship Trog. Trog is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 38 of its levels. You have collected 2768 gold pieces. You have spent 2002 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons i - a +4,+0 glaive of dragon slaying y - a +0,+4 halberd of freezing B - a +7,+6 vampiric glaive D - a +0,+3 anti-magic glaive Q - the +3,+3 glaive of Reinforcement {holy, rElec Str+3} (Trog gifted it to you on level 7 of the Dungeon) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It affects your strength (+3). It insulates you from electricity. X - the +4,+2 bardiche "Qienieh" (weapon) {chop, -Tele SInv} (Trog gifted it to you on level 3 of the Elven Halls) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It enhances your eyesight. It prevents most forms of teleportation. Missiles b - 20 darts (quivered) j - 20 darts of dispersal l - 10 darts of frost Armour a - a +0 plate armour of positive energy g - a +2 dwarven helmet (worn) z - a +4 dwarven plate armour of poison resistance (worn) H - a glowing shield {Donald} L - a +2 dwarven cloak of magic resistance (worn) M - a +2 pair of orcish gloves (worn) Magical devices c - a wand of fire (3) d - a wand of disintegration f - a wand of cold (7) h - a wand of frost {zapped: 11} m - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 5} r - a wand of paralysis (0) s - a wand of draining {zapped: 1} t - a wand of digging x - a wand of disintegration {recharged} A - a wand of confusion (3) C - a wand of slowing (1) E - a wand of fire (4) I - a wand of slowing O - a wand of paralysis P - a wand of heal wounds (3) T - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 6} Scrolls F - a scroll of fog G - a scroll of fear Jewellery q - a +5 ring of dexterity (right hand) J - the amulet "Blepn" (around neck) {Clar +Blink MR++} (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls) [amulet of clarity] It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. It lets you blink. R - a +4 ring of evasion (left hand) W - an uncursed amulet of conservation Potions o - 5 potions of might p - 4 potions of brilliance u - 5 potions of curing w - 10 potions of restore abilities U - 2 potions of speed Miscellaneous e - a phial of floods k - a fan of gales n - a lamp of fire v - a plain deck of cards K - a lantern of shadows N - a fan of gales V - a phial of floods Z - a fan of gales Skills: * Level 14.5 Fighting * Level 21.3 Polearms - Level 3.3 Throwing * Level 15.7 Armour + Level 9.1 Dodging + Level 10.8 Evocations You have 16 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (22/27) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (4/4) D:8 Elf (3/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:13 Swamp (0/5) Lair:6 Spider (0/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:8 Vaults (0/5) D:15 Altars: Ashenzari Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Zin the Shining One Shops: D:5: /* D:9: ? D:10: }}+ D:11: = D:18: ? Orc:4: *%([* Portals: Hell: D:21 Lair:8 Trove: Elf:1 (give +3 gold dragon armour) Annotations D:22 Mennas Elf:3 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne Lair:8 exclusion: 2 oklob plants Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are immune to all types of fire, even holy and hellish. You are vulnerable to cold. You need no food. You have no legs. You tend to lose your temper in combat. Message History X - a fine bardiche {god gift} You start removing your armour. You continue taking off your +2 pair of orcish gloves. You finish taking off your +2 pair of orcish gloves. You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your pair of gauntlets. You finish putting on your +0 pair of gauntlets. You start removing your armour. You continue taking off your +0 pair of gauntlets. You finish taking off your +0 pair of gauntlets. You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your +2 pair of orcish gloves. You finish putting on your +2 pair of orcish gloves. You drop a +0 pair of gauntlets. You feel the dreadful sensation subside. X - the +4,+2 bardiche "Qienieh" (weapon) {chop, -Tele SInv} Level annotation: exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne Welcome back, folkum von folkington the Djinni Berserker. Trog says: Kill them all! Press ? for a list of commands and other information. .# #.ee.. .####### ....... .......# ..ee... .......# ......( ......)##3.....ee #.e .....3.ee....# #e.... .......##....# |#.(.... .......# .e..# $#....... .(.....# .....# !)#........ (####### #.....# [=#.......# .# ......#########$$}#.......# .# #........((...#?"##......# .# .. .......(@.'(##.(.....# .# ..........###.(.....## .# ........(###.......## .# ........([........## .# ### #................##### # .# ##.# ##............### #.## # .# ##.## ###........### ##.## # e# ##.## #####.#### ##.## # 3# ##.## #####.### ##.## # .# ##.## #...))..# ##.## # .# ##.## #....)..# ##.## # .###.## #.......# ##.### .##)## #.......# ##.## There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Norris (Elf:2) A bone dragon (D:20) A deep elf blademaster (Elf:3) A quicksilver dragon (D:18) 2 deep elf master archers (Elf:3) Frances (D:20) Donald (Elf:3) Wiglaf (Elf:2) A deep elf sorcerer (Elf:3) A fire giant (D:11) 2 deep elf demonologists (Elf:3) 3 deep elf annihilators (Elf:3) A dire elephant (Lair:8) Snorg (Elf:1) 2 dragons 5 vault guards (Elf:1) A deep elf death mage (Elf:3) 4 yaktaur captains A ravenous feature mimic (D:16) Fannar (D:10) An ice dragon (D:18) Harold (D:15) Josephine (D:13) 6 hydras Nessos (Elf:2) 6 ogre magi 4 death yaks (Lair:4) A spectral elf (Elf:3) A fire crab (D:21) An orc high priest (Elf:2) 2 sun demons 5 centaur warriors An iron troll (D:21) 6 skeletal warriors 11 deep elf knights 2 lindwurms 3 unseen horrors 6 orc knights 2 giant amoebae 3 wolf spiders 2 wizards 11 deep elf conjurers 5 orc sorcerers 7 cyclopes 9 elephants 11 hill giants 9 stone giant zombies A red wasp (D:18) 4 griffons 10 stone giant skeletons Maurice (D:9) A frost giant skeleton (D:20) 2 fire giant skeletons A queen ant (Lair:6) 2 orange demons 5 deep elf summoners 14 spiny frogs A black mamba (Lair:8) 2 demonic crawlers (Elf:1) A brown ooze (shapeshifter) (D:18) A redback zombie (D:19) 15 yaktaurs 2 feature mimics 4 hellwings (Lair:8) 8 deep elf priests A redback (shapeshifter) (D:20) 3 red devils An iron troll zombie (D:20) 2 komodo dragons (shapeshifter) A smoke demon (Lair:8) An iron devil (Elf:3) 4 fire drakes 2 wandering mushrooms (Lair:8) A polar bear (shapeshifter) (Elf:2) 17 slime creatures 11 blink frogs A jumping spider (Elf:1) Sonja (Orc:3) An iron troll skeleton (D:18) A polar bear (Lair:4) 6 komodo dragons A hydra skeleton (D:15) 9 trolls An ettin zombie (D:20) 6 boulder beetles 7 basilisks A griffon zombie (D:15) A red wasp zombie (D:14) An orb spider (Lair:6) A dragon (shapeshifter) (D:20) A troll (shapeshifter) (D:21) 18 two-headed ogres A spiny worm zombie (D:17) A grizzly bear (Lair:7) 2 trapdoor spiders A yak (shapeshifter) (D:21) 2 dragon skeletons An ettin skeleton (D:20) A griffon skeleton (D:18) 4 redbacks A hill giant zombie (D:15) 2 water elementals (D:14) 40 yaks 2 wyverns 9 shadows 2 wind drakes (shapeshifter) An elephant slug (Lair:8) 40 ugly things Eustachio (D:7) A fire elemental (D:21) A clay golem (D:18) 26 deep elf magi 2 golden eyes (shapeshifter) 11 hippogriffs 2 hogs (D:7) A hill giant skeleton (D:13) 19 vampire mosquitoes 12 wolves 16 deep elf fighters A rock worm (D:18) 2 wraiths 6 sharks A manticore (D:15) 2 hungry ghosts 6 mottled dragons A swamp drake (D:8) 9 soldier ants 2 deep troll skeletons (D:20) A human (D:7) A deep troll (shapeshifter) (D:20) 9 porcupines A kobold demonologist (D:17) 28 orc warriors A yellow wasp (D:17) A freezing wraith (D:21) 2 giant goldfish 5 sky beasts An elephant (shapeshifter) (D:20) 30 ogres 13 ice beasts 17 crocodiles A giant amoeba simulacrum (D:13) 3 rotting devils (Lair:8) 5 wargs 22 centaurs 6 giant slugs 14 water moccasins A brain worm (Lair:6) 14 giant frogs 7 big kobolds A giant slug zombie (D:15) A boring beetle (shapeshifter) (D:17) A yaktaur zombie (D:14) A cyclops zombie (D:13) 8 agate snails 2 yaktaur skeletons 2 boulder beetle zombies A hippogriff zombie (D:12) An eye of draining (D:13) 2 eyes of draining (shapeshifter) A hippogriff skeleton (D:13) 5 killer bees (D:8) 21 wights 2 jellyfish 6 electric eels 8 crimson imps A goliath beetle (shapeshifter) (D:18) 5 goliath beetles 12 hounds A yaktaur simulacrum (D:19) A basilisk zombie (D:13) A centaur zombie (D:7) 2 big fish A black bear zombie (D:6) A centaur skeleton (D:12) 4 spiders A basilisk skeleton (D:14) 31 orc priests 2 quasits 7 iguanas 32 worker ants 3 orange rats (Elf:1) 31 orc wizards 2 two-headed ogre skeletons 4 scorpions A big kobold zombie (D:11) 33 sheep Ijyb (D:3) A mottled dragon zombie (D:17) A crocodile zombie (D:14) 4 jellies A mottled dragon skeleton (D:11) 4 mummies 3 gnolls (D:7) 6 giant centipedes A lemure (Elf:3) 23 adders 2 giant mites 32 green rats 13 worms An ufetubus (Elf:2) A giant eyeball (D:4) 6 giant geckos An ooze (D:2) 169 orcs 4 giant cockroaches 18 goblins 16 hobgoblins 36 jackals 4 ball pythons 20 bats 10 giant newts A hobgoblin skeleton (D:8) 36 kobolds An orc zombie (D:6) 15 quokkas 20 rats A rat skeleton (D:4) A ballistomycete (D:8) A plant (Lair:8) 1434 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) Saint Roka (Elf:2) A deep elf annihilator (Elf:3) A dire elephant (Lair:8) 2 hydras (D:11) Urug (D:10) 2 orc knights (Orc:4) 3 elephants (Lair:8) A deep elf summoner (Elf:1) A red devil (Lair:8) A slime creature (D:11) A yak (D:16) A redback (Elf:1) A vampire (D:11) 16 orc warriors 2 centaurs (Orc:4) A giant slug (Lair:8) A giant frog (D:11) 2 spiders (Elf:1) 3 orange rats (Elf:1) An adder (D:10) A scorpion zombie (D:11) 5 orcs (Orc:4) A fungus (Elf:1) 50 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A deep troll (Orc:4) A wizard (D:17) A troll (D:11) An air elemental (D:16) A water elemental (D:16) 4 ogres A big fish (D:16) An orc (D:8) 2 giant spores A ballistomycete (D:14) 7 fungi 29 plants 50 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 1534 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | folkum von folkington, the Djinni Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 0/0 92 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. EP: 20/22 286 | D:1 | Acquired Trog's second power 548 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. EP: 29/29 806 | D:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Polearms 1069 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. EP: 33/35 1486 | D:3 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 1506 | D:3 | Noticed Ijyb 1544 | D:3 | Killed Ijyb 2033 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms 2033 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. EP: 37/41 2062 | D:3 | Acquired Trog's third power 2330 | D:4 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 2403 | D:4 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 2410 | D:4 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 2501 | D:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting 2730 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 2737 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 2737 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Polearms 2737 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing 2737 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. EP: 21/49 2991 | D:4 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 3145 | D:4 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 3189 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3310 | D:5 | Reached skill level 2 in Throwing 3333 | D:5 | Found Egiluph's Magical Wand Emporium. 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of confusion (11) for 116 gold pieces 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of magic darts (4) for 21 gold pieces 3338 | D:5 | Bought a wand of slowing (3) for 44 gold pieces 3491 | D:5 | Found Faddesk's Assorted Antiques. 3533 | D:5 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 3585 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. EP: 54/54 4027 | D:6 | Reached skill level 7 in Polearms 4062 | D:6 | Reached skill level 3 in Throwing 4625 | D:6 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 4883 | D:6 | Reached skill level 8 in Polearms 4888 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 4888 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. EP: 62/62 5211 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Polearms 5655 | D:7 | Reached skill level 3 in Armour 6051 | D:7 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 6333 | D:7 | Noticed Eustachio 6337 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms 6337 | D:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Armour 6337 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. EP: 69/69 6385 | D:7 | Received a gift from Trog 6391 | D:7 | Got an iridescent glaive {god gift} 6414 | D:7 | Identified the glaive of Reinforcement {god gift, holy, rElec Str+3} (Trog gifted it to you on level 7 of the Dungeon) 6578 | D:7 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7058 | D:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms 7058 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 7655 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 7655 | D:8 | Noticed a green death 7657 | D:8 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 7658 | D:8 | Noticed an angel 8047 | D:8 | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting 8492 | D:8 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 8564 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. EP: 77/78 8770 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 8978 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 9203 | D:9 | Reached skill level 6 in Armour 9212 | D:9 | Found Ashaamim's Magic Scroll Shop. 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 36 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 66 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 36 gold pieces 9219 | D:9 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 66 gold pieces 9305 | D:9 | Noticed Maurice 9334 | D:9 | Killed Maurice 9334 | D:9 | Reached skill level 12 in Polearms 9567 | D:9 | Received a gift from Trog 9708 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 9934 | D:10 | Found Guampum's Gadget Shop. 9937 | D:10 | Noticed a cyclops 9943 | D:10 | Noticed Fannar 9953 | D:10 | Killed Fannar 9953 | D:10 | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting 9957 | D:10 | Killed a cyclops 9957 | D:10 | Reached skill level 7 in Armour 10152 | D:10 | Found Astroonemp's Gadget Emporium. 10330 | D:10 | Noticed Urug 10349 | D:10 | Killed Urug 10349 | D:10 | Reached skill level 13 in Polearms 10727 | D:10 | Found Pyastroax's Book Boutique. 10840 | D:11 | Found Noarae's Jewellery Shop. 10969 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 10975 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 10975 | D:11 | Reached XP level 11. EP: 85/85 11782 | D:11 | Noticed a six-headed hydra 11782 | D:11 | Noticed a fire giant 11782 | D:11 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 11796 | D:11 | Killed a fire giant 11796 | D:11 | Reached skill level 14 in Polearms 11796 | D:11 | Reached skill level 8 in Armour 11798 | D:11 | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting 11802 | D:11 | Killed a ten-headed hydra 11803 | D:11 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 11804 | D:11 | Received a gift from Trog 11996 | D:11 | Got an ancient scale mail 12015 | D:11 | Identified the +2 scale mail of Creativity {Int+2 Stlth+} (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon) 12038 | D:11 | Got an ancient blowgun 12039 | D:11 | Identified the blowgun of Nightmares {speed, rPois SInv} (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon) 12064 | D:11 | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation] 12064 | D:11 | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong, but stiff (Str +1, Dex -1). [potion of mutation] 12064 | D:11 | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong, but stiff (Str +1, Dex -1). [potion of mutation] 13073 | D:12 | Reached skill level 9 in Armour 13094 | D:12 | Noticed a hill giant 13112 | D:12 | Killed a hill giant 13501 | D:12 | Killed an unseen horror 13810 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Polearms 13919 | D:13 | Reached XP level 12. EP: 73/94 14137 | D:13 | Noticed Josephine 14155 | D:13 | Killed Josephine 14537 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 14542 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour 14643 | D:13 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14759 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14970 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Trog 15096 | Lair:1 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 15106 | Lair:1 | Killed a 11-headed hydra 15777 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 16 in Polearms 16162 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Trog 16163 | Lair:2 | Got a warped halberd {god gift} 16164 | Lair:2 | Identified the halberd of the Endless March {god gift, chop, Contam rElec MR++} (Trog gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) 17892 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Armour 17981 | D:12 | Reached XP level 13. EP: 102/102 18238 | Orc:1 | Noticed an orc knight 18250 | Orc:1 | Killed an orc knight 18344 | Orc:1 | Received a gift from Trog 18861 | Orc:3 | Noticed Sonja 19527 | Orc:3 | Received a gift from Trog 19722 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 19797 | Orc:3 | Killed Sonja 19925 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 20019 | Orc:4 | Found Hurinoud's General Store. 20142 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting 20152 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 17 in Polearms 20155 | Orc:4 | Found Vutunirgh's Food Shoppe. 20155 | Orc:4 | Found Isieran's Antique Weapon Boutique. 20158 | Orc:4 | Found Pneraenoi's Antique Armour Shop. 20160 | Orc:4 | Found Qoatexoi's Assorted Antiques. 21129 | Lair:4 | Received a gift from Trog 21233 | Lair:4 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 21240 | Lair:4 | Killed a 12-headed hydra 21240 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging 21320 | Lair:4 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 21327 | Lair:4 | Killed a 13-headed hydra 21844 | Lair:4 | Got an encrusted plate armour 21867 | Lair:4 | Identified the cursed -3 plate armour of the Wilderness {Dex-4 Int+2} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts) 22326 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging 23181 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Trog 23471 | Lair:6 | Found a labyrinth entrance. 23597 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 23706 | Lair:6 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 24061 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 24129 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Trog 24129 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 14. EP: 113/113 24141 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations 24176 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 18 in Polearms 24646 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 2 in Evocations 25262 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Armour 25490 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Trog 25793 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 26427 | Lair:8 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 26804 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 3 in Evocations 27939 | Lair:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 27955 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging 28066 | Lair:8 | Found a gateway to Hell. 28078 | Lair:8 | Got a crude buckler 28138 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 4 in Evocations 28450 | D:14 | Entered Level 14 of the Dungeon 29715 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 29907 | D:15 | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting 30049 | D:15 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 30458 | D:15 | Noticed Harold 30480 | D:15 | Killed Harold 31162 | D:15 | Found a staircase to the Vaults. 31248 | D:15 | Received a gift from Trog 31331 | D:16 | Reached skill level 19 in Polearms 31348 | D:16 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 31411 | D:16 | Found a staircase to the Vaults. 31594 | D:16 | Reached XP level 15. EP: 128/128 31759 | D:16 | Reached skill level 6 in Evocations 31830 | D:16 | Got a faintly glowing bone ring 31858 | D:16 | Received a gift from Trog 31859 | D:16 | Got a transparent bardiche {god gift} 31860 | D:16 | Identified the bardiche of Impatience {god gift, chop, rN+ MR++ Dex+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 16 of the Dungeon) 32610 | D:16 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 32999 | D:16 | the staircase to the Vaults was a mimic. 33112 | D:16 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 33274 | D:17 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 33835 | D:17 | Reached skill level 7 in Evocations 34047 | D:17 | Reached skill level 13 in Armour 34596 | D:18 | Noticed a quicksilver dragon 34619 | D:18 | Killed a quicksilver dragon 35817 | D:18 | Received a gift from Trog 35996 | D:18 | Found Xeyhuc's Magic Scroll Emporium. 36005 | D:18 | Bought 2 scrolls of blinking for 198 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 936 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon II for 99 gold pieces 36005 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of identify for 36 gold pieces 36811 | D:19 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns 36814 | D:19 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 3 turns 36821 | D:18 | Reached skill level 8 in Evocations 37690 | D:19 | Received a gift from Trog 37872 | D:18 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 54 gold pieces 38181 | D:19 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 38261 | D:19 | Reached XP level 16. EP: 116/140 38444 | D:19 | Reached skill level 20 in Polearms 38737 | D:18 | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging 39748 | D:20 | Entered Level 20 of the Dungeon 40086 | D:20 | Received a gift from Trog 40250 | D:20 | Reached skill level 9 in Evocations 40360 | D:20 | Noticed Frances 40371 | D:20 | Killed Frances 40379 | D:20 | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting 41309 | D:20 | Noticed a bone dragon 41329 | D:20 | Killed a bone dragon 41329 | D:20 | Reached skill level 14 in Armour 43128 | D:22 | Noticed Mennas 43693 | Elf:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls 43764 | Elf:1 | Noticed Snorg 43776 | Elf:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations 43861 | Elf:1 | Killed Snorg 44250 | Elf:1 | Reached XP level 17. EP: 150/150 44417 | Elf:1 | Received a gift from Trog 45153 | Elf:1 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure. 45619 | Elf:1 | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting 45731 | Elf:2 | Noticed Wiglaf 45753 | Elf:2 | Killed Wiglaf 46050 | Elf:2 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 46112 | Elf:2 | Noticed Norris 46114 | Elf:2 | Paralysed by Norris for 3 turns 46151 | Elf:2 | Noticed Saint Roka 46155 | Elf:2 | Killed Norris 46155 | Elf:2 | Reached skill level 21 in Polearms 46155 | Elf:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Armour 46174 | Elf:2 | Killed Saint Roka 46291 | Elf:2 | Noticed Nessos 46419 | Elf:2 | Killed Nessos 46604 | Elf:2 | Got a shimmering graven amulet 46605 | Elf:2 | Identified the amulet "Blepn" {Clar +Blink MR++} (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls) 46784 | Elf:2 | Received a gift from Trog 47316 | Elf:3 | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls 47702 | Elf:3 | Noticed Donald 47732 | Elf:3 | Killed Donald 48157 | Elf:3 | Noticed Roxanne 48229 | Elf:3 | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging 48462 | Elf:3 | Received a gift from Trog 48463 | Elf:3 | Got a fine bardiche {god gift} 48471 | Elf:3 | Identified the bardiche "Qienieh" {god gift, chop, -Tele SInv} (Trog gifted it to you on level 3 of the Elven Halls) Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Spear | 146 | 325 | 488 | | | || 959 Glaive | | | 182 | 774 | 2295 | 1443 || 4694 Halberd | | | | | 5 | || 5 Fire: Blowgun | | | | 34 | 9 | || 43 Throw: Dart | | 46 | | 1 | 10 | || 57 Javelin | | | 11 | 17 | 44 | || 72 Spear | | | 1 | | | || 1 Invok: Berserk | 3 | 7 | 14 | 14 | 31 | 8 || 77 Trog's Hand | | | 2 | 3 | 12 | 5 || 22 Burn Spellbooks | | | 1 | 1 | 3 | 1 || 6 Brothers in Arms | | | | 3 | 8 | 3 || 14 Abil: Evoke Berserk Rag | | | | | 2 | || 2 Evoke: Wand | | | 14 | 16 | 16 | 10 || 56 Miscellaneous | | | | | 3 | 3 || 6 Use: Scroll | | | 2 | 32 | 19 | 13 || 66 Potion | | | | 10 | 10 | 7 || 27 Stab: Distracted | | | 1 | | 1 | || 2 Fleeing | | | | | 2 | || 2

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 19:58 by rebthor

Ugh, lost my reply by pressing reply button after quick reply instead of submit.

MR helps protect against very specific things in crawl and it doesn't work at all like it does in NH. You can see your MR at any time by pressing @. It doesn't protect against any elemental attack like you were seeing from the ice devil. Here's what it does protect against:

Henzell wrote:The most important hostile monster enchantments are confuse, slow, deep elf sorcerer|ogre mage|Erolcha|Louise banishment, lich|orc sorcerer|great orb of eyes|sphinx paralysis.

Generally I don't recommend that anyone go and do the end of elf, let alone inexperienced players. This is generally what I do: Dungeon down to Lair -> Orc -> D:19 -> Vaults (but not Vaults:5) -> D:27 -> get three runes -> Zot. That's slightly modified from hyperelliptic. I'll sometimes leave off Orc:4 depending on the ending and my character to sometime around d:15ish and I'll often go into vaults as soon as I find it instead of going all the way down to D:19.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 20:12 by Siegurt

prozacelf wrote:BiA cannot be abjured (unless they are just very hard to abjure, but I've never seen it happen).

Small addendum to the wand list: draining is equivalent to a lv 6 spell, not lv 5.

Polymorph wands are excellent against boggarts and some monsters with annoyingly good equipment and fairly low MR. Nessos springs to mind, but there are others as well.

Yes, bolt of draining is a level 6 spell, my mistake

BiA can be abjured, I've had it happen, trog gives them some abjuration protection so it's much harder to abjure them than a standard summon.

Tuesday, 23rd July 2013, 22:32 by Amnesiac

Speaking of elf:3... I've lost so many mages, there(as I usually don't bother going there with a melee characters until I'm strong enough)... I think the highest percentage of my deaths is on elf:3. It's kinda stupid, alright, but I can't do anything with my greed and sometimes I just think "just a bit further, just a bit" and then get teleported into the vault or something...

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 07:12 by halbyc

in the tutorial, you can hit single quote ' and it'll swap btw bow and melee ... but when i do that in a real game, it just un-equips everything... help?

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 07:28 by halbyc

also which is better, ring of +5 str, or ring of +2 accuracy and +2 armour class?

I have 18 str, 8 int, 15 dex, and 22 ac when not wearing either, and i'm using a +6 accuracy bardich.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 08:14 by Sandman25

halbyc wrote:in the tutorial, you can hit single quote ' and it'll swap btw bow and melee ... but when i do that in a real game, it just un-equips everything... help?

Use "=", "i" to assign your preferred weapons to a and b. ' swaps weapons in slots a and b only.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 08:15 by Sandman25

halbyc wrote:also which is better, ring of +5 str, or ring of +2 accuracy and +2 armour class?

I have 18 str, 8 int, 15 dex, and 22 ac when not wearing either, and i'm using a +6 accuracy bardich.

+2 armour class is better unless you wear heavy body armour and don't have enough Str. What armour do you use?

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 13:57 by halbyc

plate, though i have a robe of +5 damage... in the robe i have 14 ac and 13 ev, in the plate it's 26, 5 ... but whenever i've experimented with relying too much on EV and not having high GDR, i've just splattered, so i'll stick to unenchanted plate

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 14:05 by Amnesiac

Good AC is probably better than half-assed numbers if both AC and EV. It won't save you from a bolt of cold, though.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:37 by halbyc

do skills have diminishing returns on xp... ie: if i have a fighting score of 1, and a polearm score of 10, and i train only 1 skill for a full xp level, would i gain 1 fighting / 1 polearm, or would it be more like 3 fighting / 1 polearm ?

or to put it another way, do i have the choice btw having polearm 10 fighting 0 OR polearm 7 fighting 3? or is it more like polearm 7 fighting 5, where training 2 skills nets me a higher combined level than training 1 skill?

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:42 by halbyc

i'm also having a dilema about x-training bows with a -1 aptitude while my melee skills are not yet anywhere near maxed... i can see how softening up melee targets with a bow as they close, then switching to weapon makes sense, but i am not afraid of melee targets, my only real fear in this game is ranged targets, and shooting at them with a bow allows me to stand safely near a staircase, but not having a ranged option at all, forces me to spend 2 turns closing to use my 26 damage high % to hit polearm, rather than spend 10 rounds exchanging ranged shots for a potential 5 damage each...

it seems i basically always die because i was too far from a staircase when a fight got out of hand... so bows would be a safer playstyle, but dumping so much xp into them would perhaps 'unlock' the death scenario where a fast hard monster is in melee range of me, so now staircases are pointless, because my melee skills are too low to beef it in the face. (i like beef, it's tasty)

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:49 by Siegurt

halbyc wrote:do skills have diminishing returns on xp... ie: if i have a fighting score of 1, and a polearm score of 10, and i train only 1 skill for a full xp level, would i gain 1 fighting / 1 polearm, or would it be more like 3 fighting / 1 polearm ?

or to put it another way, do i have the choice btw having polearm 10 fighting 0 OR polearm 7 fighting 3? or is it more like polearm 7 fighting 5, where training 2 skills nets me a higher combined level than training 1 skill?

It does cost increasing amounts to raise a skill to higher levels, *however* it also costs more xp to raise skills the more you've already trained. So while diversifying does give you more points, doing so too much will leave you watered down and without any skills at particularly high levels.

Generally speaking you want to start off focusing A single skill or two, then add more to expand to 3-5 skills, and branch out into non-core skills once those are high enough.

Also as an aside, you should train your weapon skill to a high level before training fighting, it will have more effect in the early game.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:55 by Siegurt

halbyc wrote:i'm also having a dilema about x-training bows with a -1 aptitude while my melee skills are not yet anywhere near maxed... i can see how softening up melee targets with a bow as they close, then switching to weapon makes sense, but i am not afraid of melee targets, my only real fear in this game is ranged targets, and shooting at them with a bow allows me to stand safely near a staircase, but not having a ranged option at all, forces me to spend 2 turns closing to use my 26 damage high % to hit polearm, rather than spend 10 rounds exchanging ranged shots for a potential 5 damage each...

it seems i basically always die because i was too far from a staircase when a fight got out of hand... so bows would be a safer playstyle, but dumping so much xp into them would perhaps 'unlock' the death scenario where a fast hard monster is in melee range of me, so now staircases are pointless, because my melee skills are too low to beef it in the face. (i like beef, it's tasty)

Dealing with ranged users as a non-ranged attacker is a tactics thing, not a training thing. You don't need a staircase, just a corner. As soon as you see a ranged user, back up and duck around a corner, force them to come to you, pay attention to what squares they can step into and see you (Note if you could attack a square, it could attack you). Most ranged attackers are bad in hand-to-hand combat, so even with your polearm, it's good to close to range 1.

Softening targets up is actually more useful for non-ranged opponents, as you can kill them before they can attack. Having a ranged war as a non-primary ranged user against something that specializes in it is a losing proposition.

Most melee users just throw things to soften targets up. you can throw rocks, darts, daggers, hand-axes etc. with reasonable accuracy without training, at least for the first dozen or so levels.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:57 by Siegurt

Also Fights get out of hand for a melee user when too many critters join the party.

Every time you whack something you make noise and things nearby come to investigate. If you let most things chase you back to an already-cleared area before you kill them, you'll get to fight them much more one-on-one.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 15:58 by rebthor

Be aware that sometimes you're better off closing with a ranged attacker right away rather than trying to get to a corner. It's a judgement call but for example, I had a centaur warrior in a recent game wander unaware near me and rather than risk it seeing me as I moved away, I instead took a step closer. This is because they hit very hard in ranged and are faster than most characters so getting around a corner was less risky that just rushing it.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:13 by halbyc

is there a way to shout / make noise on a loop during a shift-5 mass_wait thing? ie: go to the corner at the edge of a room, and start yelling, so things come to me, instead of having to wander out into the open?

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:16 by Siegurt

halbyc wrote:is there a way to shout / make noise on a loop during a shift-5 mass_wait thing? ie: go to the corner at the edge of a room, and start yelling, so things come to me, instead of having to wander out into the open?

tt

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:20 by scott9027

Press t to open the dialogue for talking, then t again to shout I believe.

I don't think this will get things out of your LOS, but it might if they are close enough. I've only used it to wake up sleeping enemies to get them to come back with me to explored territory.

Also I think it's safer to just wait a few turns when they come into LOS and are asleep to let them wake up naturally and follow you.

Would be interested in other feedback on this, for instance, does shouting at them prevent them from waking up and shouting themselves -- i.e. they are occupied with closing the distance instead? If so, it could be good to prevent pulling more enemies.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:30 by Siegurt

scott9027 wrote:Press t to open the dialogue for talking, then t again to shout I believe.

I don't think this will get things out of your LOS, but it might if they are close enough. I've only used it to wake up sleeping enemies to get them to come back with me to explored territory.

Also I think it's safer to just wait a few turns when they come into LOS and are asleep to let them wake up naturally and follow you.

Would be interested in other feedback on this, for instance, does shouting at them prevent them from waking up and shouting themselves -- i.e. they are occupied with closing the distance instead? If so, it could be good to prevent pulling more enemies.

Shouts (All noise actually) can effect creatures outside your LOS, however walls reduce the noise more than open air (in a relatively intuitive way)

The best way to pull a critter who is sleeping without waking up everything in creation is to throw something at them, if you hit them they'll wake up and immediately give chase without shouting. If you wake them up with a shout they don't shout in return, but on the other hand, you just shouted so your own shout is just as likely to bring attention as theirs would.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:34 by Igxfl

Amnesiac wrote:Good AC is probably better than half-assed numbers if both AC and EV. It won't save you from a bolt of cold, though.

I'm pretty sure high AC does help save you from Bolts of Cold.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:40 by halbyc

So if my main goal is to take less dmg from arrows and spells, does AC help? does GDR help? does evade help? I know shields can block arrows...

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:43 by Amnesiac

Igxfl wrote:I'm pretty sure high AC does help save you from Bolts of Cold.

Why would it? It's a pure cold damage.

halbyc wrote:So if my main goal is to take less dmg from arrows and spells, does AC help? does GDR help? does evade help? I know shields can block arrows...

AC helps to reduce the damage from arrows, but not pure elemental damage(for example 60% of an icicle damage is physical, so AC can reduce it). They say GDR only helps against melee attacks.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:46 by scott9027

Here's what the bot says about AC:
Armour Class; the last line of defence against damage. The vast majority of sources of damage are subject to reduction by a random number between 0 and your AC; this is applied after resistances.
Torment, smite, and hellfire, and a handful of other abilities/effects ignore AC. The only player-castable damage spells that ignore AC are freeze, refrigeration, sticky flame, static discharge, pain, vampiric draining, and agony. Note that all of these spells also ignore EV.

Here are the spells that aren't reduced by AC according to the wiki:
Hellfire: No damage reduction.
White Draconian's chilling blast: No damage reduction.
Freeze: No damage reduction.
Beams of electricity (Bolt of lightning, Chain Lightning, ...): The reduction is between 0 and AC/2.
Lee's Rapid Deconstruction: The AC is rolled three times (random number between 0 and AC), and each roll reduces damage.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 16:52 by Amnesiac

If it does reduce the damage from spells, I didn't know that. But I think the damage from bolt spells will be quite high anyway, especially in case of this character if he gets hit by a bolt of cold.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 17:49 by Lasty

AC definitely does reduce elemental damage. The reason you may think that it doesn't help against bolt spells is that they are capable of doing quite a lot of damage. Still, the player with 50 AC will be feeling that damage way less than the one with 10.

halbyc, all skills give diminishing returns on XP, because each skill level has the same effect as any other skill level, but each additional level costs more than the previous one did. It's mostly accurate to say that only in melee and shield skills are there specific "break points" where the benefits taper off extremely sharply. Depending on your god and which evokables you wish to use, Invocations and Evocations could be considered to have break points as well, but they're less important, and both the evasion granted by Dodging and the spellpower granted by magic skills (along with all other spellpower) are subject to stepdown functions, meaning that the gains in actual values per level slow down as the skill increases.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 20:48 by halbyc

curious, is it worth learning spells while worshipping trog? like blink? or that one that drops a pit of fire at your feet so u can reach a polearm over it? I know i'd lose piety when memorizing, but i don't lose every time i cast do i?

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 20:52 by BlackSheep

Casting spells gets you automatic penance under Trog.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 21:06 by Igxfl

halbyc wrote:So if my main goal is to take less dmg from arrows and spells, does AC help? does GDR help? does evade help? I know shields can block arrows...

Evasion and SH both help a lot against ranged attacks and most projectile-type spells. GDR only helps against melee attacks. AC works against pretty much everything except for the list that scott9027 provided, but is a lot more helpful against weaker attacks than stronger ones, since it subtracts damage rather than reduces it by a percentage. With rC-, you aren't likely to stack up enough defenses to adequately protect you from Bolt of Cold, etc. I'd just avoid anything with powerful cold attacks unless you can one-shot it. Look out for centaur warriors with cold arrows!

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 21:24 by halbyc

ack! died again to stupid smite and being surrounded by summoned things... as always i could easily have gotten away, but everything i'd encountered up until that point had been so easily dealt with, that i thought i could just smash face. boo hiss.

Wednesday, 24th July 2013, 21:26 by Igxfl

halbyc wrote:as always i could easily have gotten away, but everything i'd encountered up until that point had been so easily dealt with, that i thought i could just smash face.

This is like 90% of my deaths. Probably 90% of everyone's deaths, honestly.