Elven Halls Area


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Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 27th June 2013, 22:05

Elven Halls Area

I played this game a little bit several years ago. Mostly though I've really gotten into it in the past few months. I've fallen in love with this game, and would like to eventually see pandemonium and the endgame.

After a period of difficulty where only a few melee characters could get past level 6 of the dungeon I've been able to get down to level 10 or so pretty consistently. Recently I've been able to make some decent spellcasters. Being able to use Orb of Destruction has been one of the most fulfilling things I've come across so far.

Two of my best characters, a CeHu of Okawaru and my most recent character a DEWi of Vehumet have both died in the Elven Halls. The first time I went around a corner and got crushed by Blorg, the second time I got shot by a whole ton of arrows from elven archers. I'm thinking of avoiding the place altogether until I'm level 20 or something. Are there any tips for this area?

The game seems to be mocking me. Nearly every time I make a spellcaster it gives me good heavy armor and two-handed weapons. When playing a fighter it gives me robes and spellbooks. Other than my fighter who came across storm dragon armor on an early dungeon level, and my aforementioned wizard who got a ring of control teleport it's been tough.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th June 2013, 22:12

Re: Elven Halls Area

Don't do Elf.
Or at least avoid it until you're level 20 or something.
Branches in Crawl are not always meant to be explored in the order you find them. For example, entrance to Orcish Mines usually spawns before entrance to Lair, but most characters will be better off doing Lair first.
Blorc the orc (I assume you mean him by "Blorg") is pretty much the least threatening thing you can find in Elven Halls, by the way.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 27th June 2013, 22:25

Re: Elven Halls Area

Probably the biggest tip is to not go into Elven Halls - at any level. Even a Level 27 character will face some difficulty running around in there - I know I've been Abyssed which is the main worry. I personally go there because of the items I can find but generally this is after not finding what I need from Vaults:5, Crypt:5, Shops, and what not. Even if I do go in there early for other reasons, I bring several support spells to keep my character alive. If I do go in there early before becoming level 20 then I avoid the End-Vault for sure until much later.
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 27th June 2013, 22:43

Re: Elven Halls Area

Misspelling, It was Snorg, not Blorg. I must have Blorc and Snorg two mixed up in my head. :)

Ok, It's good to know. I've already been avoiding the Orcish Mines until I feel I can handle hordes of orc priests.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 27th June 2013, 22:47

Re: Elven Halls Area

Davion Fuxa wrote:I know I've been Abyssed which is the main worry.
By the time you're doing the Elven Halls being Abyssed shouldn't be a problem besides the tedium.

As has been said, the Elven Halls isn't necessary in the 3 rune game. Note that like the rune branches, most of the difficulty is at the bottom level, which contains a treasure vault.
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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 03:42

Re: Elven Halls Area

Elven Halls isn't bad for a strong melee character at XL20+ if you've found a wand of digging and some MR+ equipment.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 08:22

Re: Elven Halls Area

For elven halls you would need several things, which means it's best to go there after you hit level 27 and have some items.

Having conservation (lots of fire/ice spells), rMut (elves can summon neqoxec, though you can block it with LOS), some MR (helps against banish and confusion), elemental resistance (rPois isn't strictly needed though), good AC/EV (blademaster and elven archer can be deadly as mages), and Sinv are highly recommended.

At level 27 elven hall 1 or 2 shouldn't be much of a problem, the place gets atrocious at the vault entrance. It's a choke point, use it to your advantage. Have a wand of digging, create a one-way corridor that makes only you and one elf visible at a time. Just having a narrow corridor isn't enough, because demonologists can summon up to fiends.

If you know god aoe spell (like firestorm or freezing cloud) you could deal with a group of elves at a time, but aoe spells tend to have loud noise and will attract lots of elves, so while it can be done, it's really dangerous.

Also don't let the sight of items clouds your judgement-by the time you clear most of the elves there may be still some left in the loot room. Make sure you notice and kill them before you identify that artefact ring lying around.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 09:36

Re: Elven Halls Area

Oh, com'on! Conservation is optional (don't carry things you want to save in elf and you're fine), rmut is ridicolous (it's plenty of corner, elves and other things to hide behind if a mutator is spawned - and fog exists), elemental resistances aren't needed (their fireball it's a 3d11, are you clearing it at xl9?). The only thing useful is MR - especially if you've low levels and abyss could be a death sentence (some character can easily clear it at xl 15ish - not that I suggest it to everyone!).
Firestorm is an overkill, freezing/poisonous cloud are more than enough - even lrd of fireball are very good to clear that place!
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 13:57

Re: Elven Halls Area

Well, sInv is pretty necessary if you're mostly melee or only have beams.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 14:45

Re: Elven Halls Area

Nope, I believe also sinvis is only optimal: no one of the stronger elfs know invisibility, so if you can clear elf:3 you should be also able to blindly smash the weaker elfs.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 15:04

Re: Elven Halls Area

If you're spending more time trying to kill elves because you can't see them, they have more chances to make you life miserable by summoning demons or trying to banish you. Even great MR can be overcome eventually.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 15:14

Re: Elven Halls Area

I think I clear Elf:3 w/o see invis at least 60% of the time. When I do have see invis, I don't necessarily use it. The elves I care about don't go invis all that often.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 15:23

Re: Elven Halls Area

rebthor wrote:If you're spending more time trying to kill elves because you can't see them, they have more chances to make you life miserable by summoning demons or trying to banish you. Even great MR can be overcome eventually.


Nope.
Have you actually read my post? There's no elf who know both
invis and dangerous spells
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 16:24

Re: Elven Halls Area

nago wrote:
rebthor wrote:If you're spending more time trying to kill elves because you can't see them, they have more chances to make you life miserable by summoning demons or trying to banish you. Even great MR can be overcome eventually.


Nope.
Have you actually read my post? There's no elf who know both
invis and dangerous spells

OK, I checked and you are correct that you can't have banish or demons and invis in the same skill set. However a Deep Elf Mage can have invis and LCS. 60 max damage is nothing to sneeze at. And I'm not sure that a hasted invisible deep elf knight is something I'd want to spend a lot of time fighting either.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 18:07

Re: Elven Halls Area

I wouldn't say it's strictly necessary but I really like having some form of abjuration before doing elf:3. This was a lot easier back in the day (.9) when abjuration actually worked like mass abjuration does now, but still, even just regular abjuration is handy. Melee characters can get swarmed by summons if you aren't very careful pulling things out slowly.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 18:51

Re: Elven Halls Area

Unless it's an unseen horror, those things are infuriating with no sInv :)
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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 19:02

Re: Elven Halls Area

minmay wrote:a monster being invisible does not prevent you from knowing exactly where it is...

I may prevent you from hitting it however given that it gives a large boost to evo and it's not like deep elves have low evo in the first place. It's also why I said "mostly melee or only have beams."

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 19:58

Re: Elven Halls Area

if deep elf mage's lcs is at all dangerous to your character (even if the mage were somehow permanently invisible!!) you are in the wrong place to begin with

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 20:20

Re: Elven Halls Area

The digging trick negates just about every issue with lots of summons. I'll regularly take my melee in there right after clearing out the lair branches sans ends as long as I've got a way to dig a fighting space and decent MR. SInv, rMut, elemental resists, etc. aren't necessary. A good whacking stick and some god abilities are more than sufficient. Prep your 1 square fighting area, slowly walk into the chunnel, when you see an elf go back to your fighting hole and kill them when they appear.

I'll do it even earlier if I'm a caster with Poison Cloud... it makes things stupid easy. You can pre cloud areas so that your outermost cast spreads offscreen... I get so many kills in there without ever seeing the guy that bumped my XP bar.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 28th June 2013, 23:43

Re: Elven Halls Area

I'll also add shatter (I know it's level 9 but it's earth only so easier to get online), refridgeration, and makhleb's summon greater demon (particularly an executioner) for ways to clear the end vault.
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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 07:45

Re: Elven Halls Area

my stratagy for elven halls:

get 100+ hp and learn poison cloud/haste then just poison all the elves and kill them offscreen

occasionally you'll get one or two with rpois gear though... then just use like fireball or mystric blast or something. also blademasters/master archers can't sinv.

one time i did elf at like level 14 or so with no resists... but honestly you shoul wait till level 20+

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 14:48

Re: Elven Halls Area

My strategy for elven halls (around level 17-20):
Lure enemies outside the vault or into corridors (remember you can shout).
Use conjure flame multiple times.
Hide behind a corner and let them walk through it chasing you.

Hints and things that might be useful:
Swiftness
Repel Missiles
Summon butterflies
Good MR/sInv
A ranged weapon while they're walking through the clouds
Decent melee skills/defenses to tank while they're in the clouds (especially for blademasters, but if you do it right they should be half dead by the time they get to you)
Get a weak enemy or ally between you and a powerful enemy and let the stronger one bake in the flame (just make sure the strong enemy won't shove the weak one).

Sure, poison/freezing cloud work great if you have them, but lets not scare anybody either. I don't want to give you the impression that elf is a walk in the park and get you killed, but neither do I want you to think it's only doable with haste and high level spells. Conjure flame is a level 3 spell, and works great if you know how to use it. Know what the enemies are capable of, know what you're capable of, and think smart. Have a backup plan, preferably that doesn't involve teleporting on the last level. They may have some scary spells/attacks, but they still use the same bad AI as every other humanoid.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 16:27

Re: Elven Halls Area

My favorite thing in Elf:3:


Silence, it's golden after all...
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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 17:36

Re: Elven Halls Area

My stratagy for elf:3
Make large abominations in orc.
Spend lots of kiku piety for more corpses to get more abominations
Use mass abjuration a lot.
???
Profit!
Last edited by khalil on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013, 01:44, edited 1 time in total.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 20:23

Re: Elven Halls Area

??? is right. How are you using kiku and lucy at the same time?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 2nd July 2013, 20:28

Re: Elven Halls Area

I'm guessing he meant mass abjuration to handle demons.

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Post Wednesday, 3rd July 2013, 01:44

Re: Elven Halls Area

Yeah, that's it. Fixing post.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 3rd July 2013, 05:06

Re: Elven Halls Area

I do not think Elf is as hard as everyone is saying.

I clear it regularly after Orc, Lair, some of the Shoals/Snake/Swamp/Spider, most of D and maybe I've started Vaults. The trick is to eliminate everything except the final room and throw an X block around the entrance once you find it.

Then you lure stuff out one at a time and kill it.

In fact, that's why Elf sucks. I think the Elf:3 final vault should be revised to have random teleport traps inside (like Zot!) or even secret one-way passages for the Elves to use en-masse to trap the player from behind or take him by surprise. They're Elves. They've harnessed magic. They need to think more strategically.

Either that, or they don't come running to sounds and they stay at range.

The only really tough ones are the Demonologists.

Also, the digging trick has now made Elf 3 trivial, but time consuming, for me.
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Post Wednesday, 3rd July 2013, 05:55

Re: Elven Halls Area

Demonologists are definitely one of the ones I tend to watch for, if just for Banishment (although Summon Greater Demon has killed me), but I think Sorcerers are just as, if not more dangerous. 3d20 Hellfires after a haste can get ugly fast. Plus, they can banish you too.
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Post Wednesday, 3rd July 2013, 07:23

Re: Elven Halls Area

Some of the new end vaults for Elf actually make it a little better than it previously was. There is the one with the water on either side and the one with water at the entrance. Both make it a little more difficult to just pull them out one at a time, plus I've seen more than a few with double wide entrances... still easy to setup the corner fighting area, but a nice step in the right direction nonetheless.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

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