CIP - another SPEn

Monday, 4th February 2013, 23:16 by Magipi

After my first win, another surprisingly good run with a similar character (previously I kept dying around level 12-18).

And the best news: after I have given up hope, in the Royal Jelly's loot finally found a book with the Shatter spell! So I am now training Earth, and will try the shatter-ninja style (homage to Diviton).

But right now, there are problems. In the Crypt, I have just seen an ancient lich. And in D24, there is Mennas the angel. And I do not like what I'v read about them.

So, question: what next?

Another question: I haven't found any dagger worth mentioning, but found this:
the +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance (weapon) {holy, +Inv rPois rC+}

Is it good for stabbing? Or should I just use a dagger? If so, what is the best dagger brand for stabbers?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11.0 (tiles) character file. Bohomke the Imperceptible (Spriggan Enchanter) Turns: 137680, Time: 16:01:30 HP 123/123 AC 19 Str 10 XL: 25 Next: 54% MP 45/47 EV 39 Int 31 God: Ashenzari [*****.] Gold 2340 SH 18 Dex 22 Spells: 17 memorised, 5 levels left Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : + w - +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance {holy, +In Res.Cold : + . . Warding : . g - +3 mottled dragon armour of Sunlight {rF+ Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : + i - -1 orc buckler {AC+3} (curse) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : + j - +2 wizard hat {Int+3} (curse) Res.Elec. : . Clarity : + s - +1 elf cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse) Sust.Abil.: + . Spirit.Shd : . (gloves unavailable) Res.Mut. : + Stasis : . (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . P - cursed amulet "Duavyin" {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} Saprovore : . . . Levitation : + p - cursed ring of the Skies Above {SustAb Int Ctrl.Flight: + o - ring of Light {Fire Dex+2 Int+3} @: flying, very slightly contaminated, very quick, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy A: unfitting armour, horns 1, see invisible, cold resistance 1, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2, Int +1 a: End Transfer Knowledge, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility }: 4/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, gossamer You are on level 3 of the Crypt. You worship Ashenzari. Ashenzari is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 68 of its levels. You have visited 1 bazaars. You have also visited: Labyrinth. You have collected 6484 gold pieces. You have spent 4164 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons r - a +3,-1 dagger of freezing w - the +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance (weapon) {holy, +Inv rPois rC+} (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It protects you from cold. It protects you from poison. It lets you turn invisible. Missiles n - 5 darts of dispersal (quivered) Armour g - the cursed +3 mottled dragon armour of Sunlight (worn) {rF+ Dex+4 SInv} (You acquired it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) It affects your dexterity (+4). It protects you from fire. It enhances your eyesight. It has a curse placed upon it. i - a cursed -1 orcish buckler of protection (worn) j - a cursed +2 wizard hat of intelligence (worn) s - a cursed +1 elven cloak of preservation (worn) Magical devices N - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 8} Y - a wand of digging {zapped: 1} Comestibles b - 4 cheeses c - a banana t - a bread ration K - a choko Scrolls d - 6 scrolls of magic mapping e - 2 scrolls of remove curse f - 7 scrolls of curse jewellery k - 4 scrolls of fog m - a scroll of vulnerability y - 3 scrolls of recharging z - a scroll of enchant armour C - 4 scrolls of teleportation I - a scroll of silence L - a scroll of enchant weapon III O - 4 scrolls of fear Q - a scroll of torment R - a scroll of curse weapon S - a scroll of identify T - a scroll of amnesia W - 5 scrolls of blinking Jewellery h - a +3 ring of protection o - the ring of Light (left hand) {Fire Dex+2 Int+3} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of fire] It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+2). p - the cursed ring of the Skies Above (right hand) {SustAb Int+3 Stlth++} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of sustain abilities] It affects your intelligence (+3). It makes you much more stealthy. It has a curse placed upon it. u - an uncursed ring of ice x - an uncursed ring of protection from cold D - an uncursed ring of fire E - an uncursed ring of life protection G - an uncursed amulet of conservation H - an uncursed ring of protection from magic J - an uncursed ring of teleport control M - an uncursed ring of life protection P - the cursed amulet "Duavyin" (around neck) {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} (You bought it in a shop on level 20 of the Dungeon) [amulet of resist mutation] It affects your strength (+1). It affects your dexterity (-3). It has a curse placed upon it. V - an uncursed ring of protection from fire Potions a - 9 potions of curing q - 2 potions of speed A - 6 potions of heal wounds B - 4 potions of resistance F - 3 potions of mutation Skills: - Level 10,0 Fighting - Level 13,5 Short Blades - Level 1,1 Throwing - Level 10,3 Armour - Level 19,9(22,9) Dodging + Level 25,0(27) Stealth - Level 23,0 Stabbing - Level 5,9(8,6) Shields - Level 14,8 Traps & Doors + Level 20,5 Spellcasting - Level 10,6(13,1) Conjurations - Level 11,3(13,7) Hexes - Level 3,5(5,9) Charms - Level 10,2(12,6) Translocations - Level 4,1(6,6) Transmutations - Level 7,1(9,8) Fire Magic - Level 3,5(5,9) Air Magic * Level 6,6(9,3) Earth Magic - Level 7,5(10,2) Poison Magic You have 5 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex ######## 0% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ######. 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ########. 0% 3 None d - Invisibility Hex ########. 1% 6 None e - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ########. 1% 4 None f - Fireball Conj/Fire #########. 1% 5 None g - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ########. 1% 3 None h - Mass Confusion Hex ########.. 1% 6 None i - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air #######... 1% 2 None j - Flight Chrm/Air #######... 1% 3 None k - Insulation Chrm/Air #######... 1% 4 None l - Airstrike Air #######... 1% 4 None m - Apportation Tloc ########.. 0% 1 None n - Blink Tloc N/A 0% 2 None o - Lightning Bolt Conj/Air #######... 1% 5 None p - Passwall Trmt/Erth #######... 1% 3 None q - Iron Shot Conj/Erth ########.. 1% 6 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (24/27) Temple (1/1) D:7 Orc (4/4) D:6 Elf (3/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:9 Shoals (5/5) Lair:4 Spider (5/5) Lair:4 Slime (6/6) Lair:6 Vaults (8/8) D:15 Blade (1/1) Vaults:4 Crypt (3/5) Vaults:4 Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Jiyva Shops: D:9: ? D:10: [/ D:20: = D:23: %*( Orc:2: *?! Orc:3: *[ Orc:4: [!(( Elf:1: * Elf:2: / Vaults:1: * Vaults:2: ? Vaults:4: + Vaults:7: / Portals: Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 Abyss: D:22 D:23 Crypt:3 Pandemonium: D:21 Annotations D:8 melyviz D:13 exclusion: 2 statues D:16 exclusion: silver statue, Aizul D:18 exclusion: curse skull D:24 Mennas Elf:3 exclusions: 12 item mimics and 13 ravenous item mimics Lair:5 kaptar Shoals:4 exclusion: oklob plant Shoals:5 Margery Spider:2 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne Vaults:1 exclusion: orange crystal statue Vaults:6 exclusion: silver statue Crypt:2 exclusion: curse skull Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are tiny and cannot use many weapons and most armour. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. You are a herbivore. You cover ground extremely quickly. You need consume almost no food. You have a pair of small horns on your head. Your mind is acute (Int +1). Your flesh is cold resistant.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 00:20 by byrel

It's very good for stabbing in extended, and not bad now. Holy procs after stabbing damage is taken into account, massively boosting damage on undead demons. You would have to train stabbing higher for the same damage to mundanes. Evokable invisiblilty is often cheaper hunger-wise than the spell for spriggans, and rC and rPois for free are good.

I favor distortion>speed>elec on my stabbing daggers, personally. Distortion is ideal for a stabber, because it's an answer to the stabber's big question: what do you do when it wakes up? Teleport it away from me! Banish it! Blink it out of melee range! I don't care, I just want it to leave me alone! Venom actually takes precedence over all of them through Lair and orc though, for kiting potential.

You might be able to handle the ancient lich on stealth. A stab will kill it, but you'll never put it to sleep. Fortunately, it's high damage spells like LCS will never* hit you with that much EV. It may have summon Greater Demon, but you can simply run/blink away if you fail to wake it up. Or stick around and iron shot it to death, if it doesn't summon anything nasty. Mennas is evil. Fortunately, you're also at least as fast as he is, unlike most folks. I would simply avoid him and carry on.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 01:48 by BlackSheep

byrel wrote:Evokable invisiblilty is often cheaper hunger-wise than the spell for spriggans, and rC and rPois for free are good.

Evokable invisibility has less hunger cost than the spell, but it isn't mitigated by skills or stats. With enough Spellcasting and Int, you can cast Invisibility with no hunger cost. A ring of invis costs 375 hunger on average.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 03:42 by diviton

If the Ancient Lich wakes up, Iron Shot is a great alternative and a vrry reliable spell for damage. You could kill the Ancient Lich. If it summons too much then just run.

As for Mennas, I killed him with my recent SpEn before I even got Iron Shot by hasting and using Lee's Rapid Deconstruction. I just kept him near walls and hit him with shrapnel. Since his silence radius is only 6 panels and I was a hasted Spriggan, I just ran and got some space between us until I could LRD him a few times. Rinse and repeat. I eventually ran out of MP but I just hid and recovered some and lured him back for more.

Mennas is significantly more dangerous than the Ancient Lich IMO. You cant use Iron Shot on Mennas since his silence wont allow yoi to get in casting range, so I highly recommend you learn LRD if you haven't already. Its a great spell overall.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 08:13 by Magipi

Thank you for the answers, everyone.

This forum is great.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 08:40 by Magipi

I just stabbed poor old Mennas. I planned to leave him alone for now, but when I found him sleeping, the temptetion was too great.

Btw, he chose his sleeping place very carefully, in a junction, so sneaking up to him needed at least 6 moves in his LOS. But I digged another corridor, so I reduced it to 2 moves, drank a speed potion as a precaution, and... he did not wake up.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 10:14 by Magipi

Questions, questions...

I have 2 wizard hats to choose from. The first gives +3 Int, the second gives +2 Int, +2 Dex.
Yes, I know 4 is bigger than 3, but a point of Int helps reduce the hunger cost and increase the success rate of Shatter, while 2 pips of Dex won't do much good. Or am I wrong?

Another q: the spell Lehudib's Crystal Spear. Is it worth it? Is it better than Iron shot?

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 10:44 by Psieye

Actually, by sleeping at a junction with diggable rock, he committed suicide had you learnt passwall. You get a free action after passwall, meaning anyone sleeping next to a wall literally cannot wake up before you stab them.

Hmm, the +2 Dex will help with EV, stealth and stabbing. But you're a Sp with enough Dex so I'd recommend the extra Int.

Crystal Spear is awesome and is better than iron shot but shorter ranged (oh and the hunger cost).

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 11:27 by Magipi

Actually, I never used Passwall. I did not know it is so potent. Thanks!

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 13:48 by diviton

Sounds like you killed Mennas correctly. Drinking the speed potion first was a good idea, because if he wakes up and you're standing right next to him, it's often insanely hard to escape with his silence up. Unless you also have a wand of teleportation.

Anyway, Crystal Spear is a good spell, but you want to get Shatter castable before post game. I don't think you should be investing in Ice Magic and Conjurations right now.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 14:06 by Magipi

Right now, I am only trainig 3 skills: Earth magic (focused), Spellcasting and Dodging.
Stealth is already 27 (with the help of Ashenzari), and Stabbing is 23.

Meanwhile, I cleared the Crypt. I avoided the Ancient Lich, but another one was guarding the end vault. First time, he opened negotiatios by summoning first an Ice Fiend, then an Executioner. Wow. I had to teleport away.
After gathering my bravery, I tried it once again. This time the AL did not notice me until I was in Iron shot range, and after that 1-2-3 and he was down.

Next, I went into the Abyss. I guess I was lucky because I found the abyssal rune in 500 turns, and the exit in another 200. Now I have 5 runes, wow. Now I need some advice: what next? The Tomb?

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 14:28 by Psieye

Uh... if you know what you're doing then you could do Tomb now but it sounds like you don't. Many players leave it until last for good reason. Yes, even Hell is preferable to Tomb in some ways. It pretty much comes down to "skip the Tomb:2 welcome party and work your way through Tomb:3 without ever making noise, all while having a bunch of food and means of coping with the many elite mummy death curses".

Pan is a much more reasonable place to start your extended game if you're not sure where to go between Hell/Pan/Tomb.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 16:38 by rebthor

diviton wrote:Sounds like you killed Mennas correctly. Drinking the speed potion first was a good idea, because if he wakes up and you're standing right next to him, it's often insanely hard to escape with his silence up. Unless you also have a wand of teleportation.

Anyway, Crystal Spear is a good spell, but you want to get Shatter castable before post game. I don't think you should be investing in Ice Magic and Conjurations right now.

Crystal spear is earth/cj. He already trained some Cj for iron shot and it's not likely he would need to train more if he were pumping earth for shatter anyhow. Nonetheless, as he does already have iron shot at good spell power, there's no reason to learn LCS in my opinion.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 17:39 by diviton

rebthor wrote:
diviton wrote:Sounds like you killed Mennas correctly. Drinking the speed potion first was a good idea, because if he wakes up and you're standing right next to him, it's often insanely hard to escape with his silence up. Unless you also have a wand of teleportation.

Anyway, Crystal Spear is a good spell, but you want to get Shatter castable before post game. I don't think you should be investing in Ice Magic and Conjurations right now.

Crystal spear is earth/cj. He already trained some Cj for iron shot and it's not likely he would need to train more if he were pumping earth for shatter anyhow. Nonetheless, as he does already have iron shot at good spell power, there's no reason to learn LCS in my opinion.

Oh. Derp on my part. I have two 15 rune victories, but I still feel like such a n00b with this game. >_>

If you're going to start the extended game, I advise you go to Pandemonium first. It's easier than Hell and Tomb. That said, I always do Tomb first for some reason that even I don't understand. It's such a pain in the ass and can be the most difficult part of the game.That said, having Shatter makes Tomb a bit easier. Tomb:2 in particular. If you don't have a means of breaking walls, when you drop into Tomb:2 you'll be put in a wide open room and immediately be surrounded by powerful mummies. It's pretty awful. That said, if you have a means of breaking the walls and gaining access to the other staircases on Tomb:1, it makes Tomb:2 more manageable because you get dropped in a spot that allows you to take on the mummies at your own discretion. Tomb:3 is just an awful time though. The only good thing about Tomb:3 is I believe everything is asleep when you go down there, so stabbing is viable. You want to pull away any Mummies that wake up and be incredibly cautious. Oddly enough, the most dangerous thing down there are the Flying Skulls because if they see you and let out a shriek, they'll wake the entire floor, so I'd avoid any Flying Skulls you see until the last possible moment.

But yeah, you should do Pandemonium first. It's surprisingly easy if you have Shatter very castable.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 17:56 by Magipi

Thank you for the advice, everyone. So Pandemonium is next.

Questions (as usual):
-how much food do I need to bring for a Pan trip?
-what resistances? What I read on the wiki, probably I should bring all my rings

-when is Shatter "castable"? Right now, miscast rate is 12%. How bad are the miscast effects?

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 18:32 by diviton

When I went to Pan, I filled myself to Engorged and then brought 3 bread rations. It depends on how much you can carry. Food can get heavy and force you to leave stuff in Pandemonium. There is food in there, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. As for Shatter, I'd get it to at least 8% before focusing on anything else. Spriggan's Grow insanely fast, so you'll be able to max just about everything you want. When I finished my SpEn, I had 7 skills at 27 and that's without Ashenzari's skill boosting.

Advice for Pandemonium:

- Explore every floor fully until you find the "Demonic Rune".
- Once you have the Demonic Rune, just drop through every single portal you find until you reach a unique Pan lord floor. You'll know you reached a Pan lord floor because it tells you right after going through a portal.
- When exploring the Pan Lord floor, clear out the whole area before going into the pan lords vault. I'd also advise using Scrying so you know exactly where the rune is. It's also good to know exactly where the Pan Lord is, but this isn't always doable. Lom Lobon's vault is pretty big and seeing him without going into the Vault is unlikely.
- Once you see the rune and the coast is clear, use shatter and as soon as you open the walls and can see the rune, use apportation. After that just controller teleport if the Pan lord is on your trail.
- When on Mnoleg's floor, you can actually dig into his vault rather than using Shatter. This is awesome as it doesn't force you to wake everything up.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 19:58 by Psieye

diviton wrote:- Explore every floor fully until you find the "Demonic Rune".

Exception: if it's a hard floor (e.g. Hell Sentinels around every corner) and it's not a unique pan lord's floor, just skip it. The demonic rune will respawn indefinitely until you pick it up.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 19:59 by Magipi

Oh, I almost forgot. How much Translocations is needed to move a rune? Right now I have 12.6.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 20:03 by Magipi

And one more thing. Here is my spell list. Is anything vital missing?

Code:: a - Corona Hex ######## 0% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ######. 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ########. 0% 3 None d - Invisibility Hex ########. 1% 6 None e - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ########. 1% 4 None f - Dig Trmt/Erth ########. 1% 4 None g - Shatter Erth #########. 14% 9 #####.. h - Mass Confusion Hex ########.. 1% 6 None i - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air #######... 1% 2 None j - Flight Chrm/Air #######... 1% 3 None k - Insulation Chrm/Air #######... 1% 4 None l - Lehudib's Crystal Sp Conj/Erth ########.. 4% 8 ###.... m - Apportation Tloc ########.. 0% 1 None n - Blink Tloc N/A 0% 2 None o - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc ########.. 1% 4 None p - Passwall Trmt/Erth ########.. 0% 3 None q - Iron Shot Conj/Erth ########.. 1% 6 None r - Lee's Rapid Deconstr Erth #########. 0% 5 None

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 20:08 by BlackSheep

I think runes have the same mass as a wand, so if you can apport a wand from the edge of LOS, you can apport a rune. (My guess would be that 12.6 is way more than enough.)

Summon Butterflies can be a handy spell to keep on hand.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 20:55 by Psieye

cBlink, Phase Shift and Haste are missing. Make space for them by forgetting the useless lower level spells.

Tuesday, 5th February 2013, 22:16 by rebthor

Psieye wrote:cBlink, Phase Shift and Haste are missing. Make space for them by forgetting the useless lower level spells.

And 1 of LCS and iron shot too probably. You really only need one of those. I'd lean toward keeping iron shot since it's hungerless. That would free up a lot of spell levels.

By now you probably also have weapon or jewelry identified that gives rElec, so you might want to forget insulation. I'm not enough of an Ash player to know if the increase in flexibility for being able to swap that item in is offset by the curse / uncurse needed.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 10:03 by Magipi

The first level of the Pandemonium was easy. The second level, however, almost got me killed: the gate dropped me right next to an awake Shadow Fiend. But I survived, and on the third level I found the demonic rune. It was guarded by a Pan Lord who could not see invisible. Poor guy.

By the way, I am now using Passwall a lot, and it really is awesome. Thanks, Psieye.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 11:14 by Magipi

Found the vault of Gloorx Vloq and the dark rune. But now I do not know how to do it. This is the layout:

Code:: .#.E...E.#. .#.......#. .#..#E#..#. .#..#.#..#. ...##.##... .###.G.###. .###.R.###. ...##.##... .#..#.#..#. .#..#E#..#. .#.......#. .#.E...E.#.

G - Gloorx
E - Executioner
R - rune
# - stone wall (undiggable, unpassable)

Right now everyone is sleeping.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 11:21 by Psieye

Shatter way far away. Everyone walks over to the spot to investigate what the noise was. You come from the opposite direction (or just cTele in) and apport-ninja the rune and cTele away. You have Ash radar so you don't even need to guess whether they've left or not.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 11:56 by Magipi

Wow, thanks. It worked after all. The interesting thing was that Gloorx did not wake up, but all the Execs did (and ran at me in packs, it was pretty scary), so in the end I just apported the rune from the south, and now I am gone.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 12:05 by Psieye

The inner walls must have sheltered him from the noise. There are sophisticated calculations done to factor in how walls and doors ought to affect sound travel.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 13:52 by Magipi

The Pandemonium trip is completed! I have 10 runes now. Thank you for all the help.

And now?

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 14:09 by Psieye

You could try Tomb. You are now used to torment and you have shatter. Clear the sphinx squad waiting at the big gateway to the Tomb (you want Stasis for this fight and ample !curing so you don't get perma-paralysed and perma-confused). This is just so they don't show up when you're shattering through the outer wall of Tomb:1. See if you can handle the greater mummies there and their death curses after killing them. I recommend !restore abilities and haste so you can appropriately react to whatever happens. If they're too much, run away and do Hell first.

Are you familiar with the Tomb structure? The idea is you go through the main gates on Tomb:1 and find a single staircase down to Tomb:2, where a sadistic welcome party meet you. Afterwards, you find another single staircase up to Tomb:1's outer corridor which wraps around the edge of what you could previously see from the hallway past the gate. This corridor then leads to the final down staircase which then leads to the staircases that put you in Tomb:3. Your objective is to short-cut through all that and just get to the final down staircase - some trial and error may be needed to identify which is the down staircase you want but it's one of the two on the outer rim. Tomb:3 is then "do you understand noise?" alongside "would you like to commit suicide by mummy genocide?"

Hell on the other hand, is a question of "can you survive a bunch of potential badasses just spawning around you?" (you get 1 free action before they can start to react) as well as "can you cope with us making your life miserable in other ways at random intervals, including badass fights?" The latter is like an expanded repertoire of mummy death curses, which means the worst of them are diluted thin.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 14:27 by Magipi

Do I need rN+++ for the Tomb? I can manage it, but just barely, and it means I have to give up both artefact rings for 2 simple rN rings (and that will hurt my Int as well).

And where is the sphinx squad? Inside T1?

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 14:46 by diviton

Sustain Abilities is more important than having rN+++ IMO. Also, like he said, have LOTS of curing. I used my potions of curing to get rid of rotting from death curses. As a Spriggan with low HP, too much rotting can be really bad. That said, being completely immune to pain and negative spells is nice.

Tomb:3 is maybe the most dangerous floor in the entire game, so use my advice earlier for sneaking and stabbing. Avoid ALL flying skulls. If things wake up, don't be afraid to stair dance. One greater mummy isn't too much of a problem, but 2-3+ and you're gonna get destroyed. because stair dancing is so useful, I recommend you clear out the 1st and 2nd floor because you don't want to stair dance and be greeted at the top by another greater mummy or two. Even when getting through Tomb:1 and 2, use a baiting tactic to lure all greater mummies and mummy priests away from other monsters and kill them one on one. This way, you're never caught off guard by multiple torments or a really debilitating death curse.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 15:19 by Magipi

Luckily, my favourite ring has SustAb:
the cursed ring of the Skies Above (right hand) {SustAb Int+3 Stlth++}

As for rN, I plan to swap my armor from the current rF+ one to this:
the cursed +0 robe of the Black Moon {+Rage rN+ Int+3}

Plus I can wear a standard rN ring on my left hand.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 16:14 by Magipi

Psieye wrote:Are you familiar with the Tomb structure? The idea is you go through the main gates on Tomb:1 and find a single staircase down to Tomb:2 (...)

Interestingly, the current Tomb:1 has a different structure. A gigantic open hall with a large stone castle in the middle, and all 3 staircases (leading down) are inside the castle. By scrying inside I noticed at least a dozen greater mummies inside the castle, plus priests. I do not think there is a way to reach the steps without killing the mummies.

Is there any way for me to deal with greater mummies? Their torment has a much longer range than my Iron shot (or Mystic blast).

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 16:31 by Psieye

I suppose rN will help a bit but it's really not that big a deal to not have any rN against Torment. Fact remains: you don't want it happening EVER, regardless of your rN level.

Interestingly, the current Tomb:1 has a different structure. A gigantic open hall with a large stone castle in the middle, and all 3 staircases (leading down) are inside the castle.

That sounds like the traditional Tomb structure, unless those 3 staircases are bunched up. Large square castle of stone with the big gate on the opposite side of the map to the 3 staircases leading back to Crypt.

Is there any way for me to deal with greater mummies? Their torment has a much longer range than my Iron shot (or Mystic blast).

Technically, shatter with Earth magic 25 will let you hit everything you see in your LoS. This is not recommended for noise reasons. Darkness to reduce everyone's LOS to 6 so you can use range 6 Conj might be a better option, but any source of noise travels far in Tomb (and Crypt).

Sometimes you just have to declare "I need other skills" and come back later.

Wednesday, 6th February 2013, 19:08 by Magipi

I fled the Tomb, and tried Cocytus (the icy hell) instead. Hell really is difficult, you cannot rest to regain HP and MP, because monsters spawn next to you. It was not too hard to run through the first 6 levels (oh, Dig is a great spell), but Coc:7 had undiggable walls and disabled teleport control. Also, there were 3 vaults on the level, and I first checked the 2 wrong ones on my first 2 visits, of course. On my second visit, I was almost killed, and that was because of a simple vampire. While I was running out, with Ice Fiends on my tail, the vampire blocked my way completely by summoning an army of rats and bats. I tried a scroll of fear on the creatures, but half of them stayed. I had to teleport away blindly, which brought me to an equally dangerous spot. But I escaped somehow. And my third visit was almost boring. By then I already knew where the rune must be, shattered the walls, yep: there it was, apport, pick up, ctele to the stairs and bye.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 09:40 by Magipi

I went down to the Iron City of Dis. Iron walls and no way to circle round to the back of the castle, so I guess a lot of Shatters are required. Also, I am not getting any stabs, so I think of changing my short sword and buckler for a staff. But which staff? Earth or wizardry?

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 11:30 by Psieye

Both depending on circumstances. We'd need a dump to give more specific advice. Or if you really insist on cursing your weapon in extended when the skill boost shouldn't be as necessary, then go for Earth. But it's best to be able to swap to Staff of Channeling as need be.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 11:42 by Magipi

I thought of Channeling too, but unfortunately that requires Evocations, and I have none.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11.0 (tiles) character file. Bohomke the Archmage (Spriggan Enchanter) Turns: 214916, Time: 1, 04:34:10 HP 132/132 (140) AC 11 Str 10 XL: 27 MP 50/50 EV 38 Int 31 God: Ashenzari [*****.] Gold 3262 SH 20 Dex 16 Spells: 19 memorised, 3 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + w - +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance {holy, +In Res.Cold : + . . Warding : . R - +0 robe of the Black Moon {+Rage rN+ Int+3 Life Prot.: + + . Conserve : + K - +3 buckler {AC+3} (curse) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : + j - +2 wizard hat {Int+3} (curse) Res.Elec. : . Clarity : + s - +2 elf cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse) Sust.Abil.: + . Spirit.Shd : . (gloves unavailable) Res.Mut. : + Stasis : . (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . P - cursed amulet "Duavyin" {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} Saprovore : . . . Levitation : . p - cursed ring of the Skies Above {SustAb Int Ctrl.Flight: . E - ring of life protection @: very quick, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2 a: Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility }: 11/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, icy, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer You are on level 3 of the Crypt. You worship Ashenzari. Ashenzari is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 16 branches of the dungeon, and seen 94 of its levels. You have visited Pandemonium 2 times, and seen 27 of its levels. You have visited the Abyss 4 times. You have visited 1 bazaars. You have also visited: Labyrinth and Trove. You have collected 9033 gold pieces. You have spent 5791 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons w - the +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance (weapon) {holy, +Inv rPois rC+} (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It protects you from cold. It protects you from poison. It lets you turn invisible. Armour j - a cursed +2 wizard hat of intelligence (worn) s - a cursed +2 elven cloak of preservation (worn) K - a cursed +3 buckler of protection (worn) R - the cursed +0 robe of the Black Moon (worn) {+Rage rN+ Int+3} (You found it in a treasure trove) It affects your intelligence (+3). It protects you from negative energy. It lets you go berserk. It has a curse placed upon it. Magical devices n - a wand of teleportation (2) Comestibles l - 4 pears q - 4 chokos Scrolls a - 2 scrolls of identify d - 3 scrolls of recharging e - 2 scrolls of remove curse g - a scroll of holy word i - 5 scrolls of blinking k - 4 scrolls of fog y - a scroll of magic mapping Jewellery h - a +4 ring of dexterity o - the ring of Light {Fire Dex+2 Int+3} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of fire] It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+2). p - the cursed ring of the Skies Above (right hand) {SustAb Int+3 Stlth++} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of sustain abilities] It affects your intelligence (+3). It makes you much more stealthy. It has a curse placed upon it. v - the ring "Traul" {+Lev rPois rC++} (You took it off a deep elf conjurer on level 24 of the Dungeon) [ring of poison resistance] It greatly protects you from cold. It lets you levitate. E - a ring of life protection (left hand) F - an uncursed ring of wizardry H - an uncursed ring of protection from magic P - the cursed amulet "Duavyin" (around neck) {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} (You bought it in a shop on level 20 of the Dungeon) [amulet of resist mutation] It affects your strength (+1). It affects your dexterity (-3). It has a curse placed upon it. V - an uncursed ring of protection from fire Potions b - a potion of brilliance c - 2 potions of heal wounds t - 3 potions of curing x - 4 potions of speed B - 3 potions of resistance Skills: + Level 13,5 Fighting - Level 13,5 Short Blades - Level 1,1 Throwing - Level 10,3 Armour - Level 24,3(27) Dodging - Level 25,0(27) Stealth + Level 25,9 Stabbing - Level 5,9(8,6) Shields - Level 15,1 Traps & Doors O Level 27 Spellcasting - Level 11,7(14,0) Conjurations - Level 11,3(13,7) Hexes - Level 5,3(8,0) Charms - Level 11,0(13,4) Translocations - Level 4,1(6,6) Transmutations Level 4,9(7,5) Fire Magic - Level 1,7(3,6) Air Magic + Level 23,1(24,9) Earth Magic Level 4,4(6,9) Poison Magic You have 3 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex ######## 0% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ####### 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ########. 0% 3 None d - Invisibility Hex ########. 1% 6 None e - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ########. 1% 4 None f - Dig Trmt/Erth ########. 0% 4 None g - Shatter Erth #########. 4% 9 ####... h - Controlled Blink Tloc N/A 1% 7 None i - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air #######... 1% 2 None j - Flight Chrm/Air #######... 1% 3 None k - Insulation Chrm/Air #######... 1% 4 None l - Haste Chrm #######.. 3% 6 None m - Apportation Tloc ########.. 0% 1 None n - Blink Tloc N/A 0% 2 None o - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc ########.. 1% 4 None p - Passwall Trmt/Erth ########.. 0% 3 None q - Iron Shot Conj/Erth #########. 1% 6 None r - Lee's Rapid Deconstr Erth #########. 0% 5 None s - Phase Shift Tloc ########.. 1% 5 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (27/27) Temple (1/1) D:7 Orc (4/4) D:6 Elf (3/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:9 Shoals (5/5) Lair:4 Spider (5/5) Lair:4 Slime (6/6) Lair:6 Vaults (8/8) D:15 Blade (1/1) Vaults:4 Crypt (5/5) Vaults:4 Tomb (1/3) Crypt:3 Dis (7/7) Hell Geh (0/7) Hell Coc (7/7) Hell Tar (0/7) Hell Zot (5/5) D:27 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Jiyva Shops: D:9: ? D:10: [/ D:20: = D:23: %*( Orc:2: *?! Orc:3: *[ Orc:4: [!(( Elf:1: * Elf:2: / Vaults:1: * Vaults:2: ? Vaults:4: + Vaults:7: / Portals: Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:26 D:27 Abyss: D:22 D:23 D:25 D:27 Crypt:3 Pandemonium: D:21 D:24 Annotations D:18 exclusion: curse skull D:24 Boris Elf:3 exclusions: 12 item mimics and 13 ravenous item mimics Lair:5 kaptar Shoals:4 exclusion: oklob plant Vaults:1 exclusion: orange crystal statue Vaults:6 exclusion: silver statue Crypt:2 exclusion: curse skull Coc:7 exclusion: 3 ice statues, Antaeus, Serpent of Hell Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are tiny and cannot use many weapons and most armour. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. You are a herbivore. You cover ground extremely quickly. You need consume almost no food.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 11:59 by Psieye

You worship Ash. "I have a skill I no longer want and a skill I now want but have 0 training in" is reason enough for some characters to switch to Ash.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 13:27 by Magipi

Psieye wrote:You worship Ash.

So now I channel XP to Evocations. Meanwhile changed to fire resistant gear, and raiding Gehenna.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 16:40 by diviton

Gehenna is the hardest Hell branch, IMO. I'd recommend going to Tartarus first, butwhatever floats your boat.

Have fun with Hellfire. @_@

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 17:12 by Magipi

I'm glad that Gehenna is the hardest

because i'm not doing very well down there. I tried at least a dozen times, and more often than not I could not even reach G7, had to turn back earlier.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 18:24 by Psieye

Tartarus: just be prepared for the rare case of suddenly having a silent spectre spawn in your face.

Thursday, 7th February 2013, 21:48 by Magipi

And... this is the end for now.

I was stairdancing between Tomb:2 and Tomb 3. My escape route was cut in T2 when a greater mummy appeared and summoned an army of demons. I tried to run through T3 (the stairs to T2 were very close to each other), but there were a couple of mummy priests, also summoning, tormenting, and smiting.

To tell the truth, I probaby could have finished Dis... but Tartarus, Gehenna and the Tomb seemed pretty hopeless. There is still room for me to improve

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11.0 (tiles) character file. 993603 Bohomke the Archmage (level 27, -1/132 (145) HPs) Began as a Spriggan Enchanter on Feb 1, 2013. Was an Elder of Ashenzari. Killed by divine providence ... invoked by a mummy priest (13 damage) ... on Level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients on Feb 7, 2013. The game lasted 1day 08:17:03 (244347 turns). Bohomke the Archmage (Spriggan Enchanter) Turns: 244347, Time: 1, 08:17:03 HP -1/132 (145) AC 8 Str 10 XL: 27 MP 42/50 EV 40 Int 33 God: Ashenzari [****..] Gold 3348 SH 0 Dex 18 Spells: 19 memorised, 3 levels left Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : + w - +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance {holy, +In Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . R - +0 robe of the Black Moon {+Rage rN+ Int+3 Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : + (shield restricted) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : + j - +2 wizard hat {Int+3} (curse) Res.Elec. : . Clarity : + s - +2 elf cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse) Sust.Abil.: + . Spirit.Shd : . (gloves unavailable) Res.Mut. : + Stasis : . (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: x P - cursed amulet "Duavyin" {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} Saprovore : . . . Levitation : . p - cursed ring of the Skies Above {SustAb Int Ctrl.Flight: . o - ring of Light {Fire Dex+2 Int+3} @: liquid flames, glowing, very quick, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2, Int -1 a: Scrying, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility }: 11/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, icy, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer You were on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients. You worshipped Ashenzari. Ashenzari was extremely pleased with you. You were not hungry. You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 110 of its levels. You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 27 of its levels. You visited the Abyss 4 times. You visited 1 bazaars. You also visited: Labyrinth and Trove. You collected 9153 gold pieces. You spent 5825 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons w - the +10,+4 short sword of Annoyance (weapon) {holy, +Inv rPois rC+} (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It protects you from cold. It protects you from poison. It lets you turn invisible. Armour j - a cursed +2 wizard hat of intelligence (worn) s - a cursed +2 elven cloak of preservation (worn) K - a +3 buckler of protection R - the cursed +0 robe of the Black Moon (worn) {+Rage rN+ Int+3} (You found it in a treasure trove) It affects your intelligence (+3). It protects you from negative energy. It lets you go berserk. It has a curse placed upon it. Magical devices m - a wand of fire (5) n - a wand of teleportation (1) q - a wand of disintegration (17) Comestibles c - 3 honeycombs l - 2 royal jellies Scrolls a - 2 scrolls of identify g - a scroll of holy word i - 3 scrolls of blinking k - 3 scrolls of fog C - 5 scrolls of teleportation Jewellery h - a +4 ring of dexterity o - the ring of Light (left hand) {Fire Dex+2 Int+3} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of fire] It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+2). p - the cursed ring of the Skies Above (right hand) {SustAb Int+3 Stlth++} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) [ring of sustain abilities] It affects your intelligence (+3). It makes you much more stealthy. It has a curse placed upon it. v - the ring "Traul" {+Lev rPois rC++} (You took it off a deep elf conjurer on level 24 of the Dungeon) [ring of poison resistance] It greatly protects you from cold. It lets you levitate. E - an uncursed ring of life protection F - an uncursed ring of wizardry H - an uncursed ring of protection from magic P - the cursed amulet "Duavyin" (around neck) {rMut Str+1 Dex-3} (You bought it in a shop on level 20 of the Dungeon) [amulet of resist mutation] It affects your strength (+1). It affects your dexterity (-3). It has a curse placed upon it. V - an uncursed ring of protection from fire Potions b - a potion of brilliance e - a potion of invisibility t - 2 potions of curing x - 4 potions of speed B - 2 potions of resistance Magical staves u - an uncursed staff of earth Skills: + Level 15,5 Fighting - Level 13,5 Short Blades - Level 1,1 Throwing - Level 10,3 Armour + Level 26,3(27) Dodging O Level 27 Stealth O Level 27 Stabbing Level 5,9 Shields - Level 15,1 Traps & Doors O Level 27 Spellcasting - Level 11,7(13,7) Conjurations - Level 11,3(13,3) Hexes - Level 5,3(7,6) Charms - Level 11,0(13,0) Translocations - Level 4,1(6,2) Transmutations Level 0,4(1,3) Fire Magic - Level 1,7(3,3) Air Magic + Level 24,1(25,6) Earth Magic Level 4,4(6,6) Poison Magic + Level 15,8(18,1) Evocations You had 3 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex ######## 0% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ######. 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ########. 0% 3 None d - Invisibility Hex ########. 1% 6 None e - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ########. 1% 4 None f - Dig Trmt/Erth ########. 0% 4 None g - Shatter Erth #########. 3% 9 ###.... h - Controlled Blink Tloc N/A 1% 7 None i - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air #######... 1% 2 None j - Flight Chrm/Air #######... 1% 3 None k - Insulation Chrm/Air #######... 1% 4 None l - Haste Chrm ########. 4% 6 None m - Apportation Tloc ########.. 0% 1 None n - Blink Tloc N/A 0% 2 None o - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc ########.. 1% 4 None p - Passwall Trmt/Erth ########.. 0% 3 None q - Iron Shot Conj/Erth #########. 1% 6 None r - Lee's Rapid Deconstr Erth #########. 0% 5 None s - Phase Shift Tloc ########.. 1% 5 None

Friday, 8th February 2013, 02:55 by diviton

Ahhh sucks bro. At least you got to experience post game though so you'll be better prepared for it with your next character. Tomb is just nasty.

Any plans for your next character? Another SpEn or moving on?

Friday, 8th February 2013, 03:15 by moocowmoocow

Doh. Wow almost a million turns.

Friday, 8th February 2013, 09:17 by Magipi

I have 2 different projects right now: a pure blaster (started as a spriggan wizard) and a minotaur berserker. I am studying Ahmad's Youtube videos for tips and tricks. But I will not give up the shatter-ninja either, I just love this build!

Friday, 8th February 2013, 18:55 by diviton

Shatter Ninja is my favorite build so far as well.