Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 24

Joined: Sunday, 26th February 2012, 07:01

Post Wednesday, 17th October 2012, 17:43

Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

Updated about 8 posts down, I have 3 runes and need more advice please :)

Last edited by mdonais on Saturday, 20th October 2012, 21:23, edited 2 times in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5316

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 17th October 2012, 22:12

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

I'd probably use the robe of resistance if you really have no other source of resistance - with high dodging you shouldn't need too much AC for the early/mid game. Once you can find a way to at least not be cold vulnerable, use the fire dragon armor for the late game. Preferably being able to have one pip of rC even with the FDA is best, but just don't go around vulnerable :)

I don't have the spreadsheet any longer, but there is one that shows what your spellcasting penalty per armor skill per base -EV is. If someone still has that feel free to correct me, but the rule of thumb was around 9 armor skill for -EV and you have no penalty at all, but for -2 you have to go all the way to 27 to remove it (but it's very tiny at any reasonable armor level, you are really fine around armor 10), and anything -3EV or over will always have a penalty. For -3EV and higher going from 0 armor skill to 27 armor skill cuts the penalty by around 50-70%. So if you have high armor skill casting in fire dragon armor isn't that much of a penalty. There will always be some, but getting the magic school 1-2 extra levels will make up for it.

Yes, 14 skill is min delay for a 130% trident. Trident is not a good end game weapon, but a demon trident is. You just have to find one, and shouldn't have to change your skills at all.

To remove all shield penalties, it's 5 skill per base -ev. Buckler is 1, shield is 3, and large shield is -5. So skill level 5, 15, 25. For large races (centaur, naga, troll, ogre) they only need 3 skill per ev. 10 is fine if you're working on other skills first, the penalties will be small at that point, but in the long run, get 15.

Buffs that generally help melee: Abjuration, stoneskin, regeneration, blink, control teleport, insulation if you need rElec, swiftness, flight. I'm sure I'm missing a couple, but those are the ones I tend to use.

If you meant learning Ozocubu's Armour as the ice armor spell, keep in mind you have to be using light armor (EV penalty of 0 or 1) to cast that, otherwise, use stoneskin. Unfortunately you don't have as high aptitudes for earth, but really I'd focus more on the blink/flight/regen sort of spells instead of an armor spell anyways. You can learn Phase Shift for bonus EV if you're willing to learn a decent level of magic.

For this message the author tasonir has received thanks:

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 24

Joined: Sunday, 26th February 2012, 07:01

Post Thursday, 18th October 2012, 01:46

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

I have a ring of ice and a ring of fire resistance, but my other rings are so good I hesitate to use those (slaying +4/+5, +5 strength, regeneration)
I am going to use the robe for now.

Other people are telling me to swap to Bardiche, what do you think about that? I am sad to lose such a good shield but don't know what problems I will run into if my dps basically never improves from my current dps.

By the way, I love you Naga Monk guide, I played a lot of Nagas including many melee ones and a pyro monk that hides behind flames and hits things with polearms.


Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5316

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 18th October 2012, 16:32

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

Bardiches are great weapons and it's a great choice to use them. I personally am a bit more leaning towards shields than most of the forum, who utterly love 2h weapons. The catch there is I tend to play unarmed, which is generally stronger than a 1h weapon, so I can still have decent damage and a shield (the downside being you need 27 unarmed to get that high power). Even so unarmed isn't as strong as 2h unless you are either a troll, or use transmutations. With a demon trident you're at max speed by 14 skill. You could go higher and get some increase to damage, but it won't be that much.

If you're going for 3 runes and haven't won yet, a shield can be very helpful when you aren't as good at avoiding damage. In the extended game, a lot of damage will bypass a shield anyways, and when you're a more optimal-strategy player you can also tactically avoid a lot of damage, and so 2h weapons are a lot better there. In the end both are valid builds. I like shields more than most, but conventional forum advice is to use 2h. It isn't wrong.
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Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Wednesday, 10th August 2011, 01:06

Post Thursday, 18th October 2012, 16:43

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

I'd go as far to say that shields are just as good as 2hers in a 3-runer. You might be a little worse by the time you get to zot, but dear god do shields trivialize the midgame. Granted, good 2hers can do the same.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 109

Joined: Monday, 17th October 2011, 20:36

Post Thursday, 18th October 2012, 18:26

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

I have won with two merfolk.

Fire dragon armour, shields, and blessed trishulas are what i used. only 3 and 4 runers mind you, but its a good build.

a holy glaive or bardiche might* be better for extended, but i think what would be better would be more powerful spells such as haste or ice storm.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Friday, 19th October 2012, 10:08

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

I treat shields as insurance in case of a failed dodge. That's to say: if I don't have 30+ EV while wearing a shield by lategame, then I'm being suboptimal and the investment in shields was for style points. Unless it's an awesome randart shield with resists or has a useful evoke - i.e. AC+3 is not an awesome shield. Thing about ignoring shields is that it's also friendly towards crossbows and bows.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 24

Joined: Sunday, 26th February 2012, 07:01

Post Saturday, 20th October 2012, 21:21

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

Thanks for all the advice, I am still alive and I have 3 runes. I want to try to go to zot.

I would appreciate advice on what amulet and armor to wear. I have resist mutation, or clarity, or warding (and several others).
I am tempted by clarity because I have a berserk mutation. I could use some mutation cleaning potions :(

I have good damage now because I found a demon trident and have +11 damage from rings and +3 more from boots.

I have tons of mediocre armors and can't decide which is best for zot 1-5.

+6 swamp dragon armor is what I wore for most of the game. Skin of Zhor RC++ seems like a good option if I need cold resist though?
I have some elven ringmail +4 of MR, is that important?
My cloak has poison resist so the swamp dragon armor isn't helping in that way.
I have fire resist on my shield and damage ring so I don't need more of that I don't think?

Should I go for more runes? I heard that slime sucks if you don't have dig and the crypt has tons of exp drain creatures. I have an amulet and some ring mail with resist necro on them.

I fully cleared all the easy stuff already:
Dungeon (19/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:9
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:9           Swamp (5/5) Lair:5
 Spider (5/5) Lair:5        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:16
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3 

Spoiler: show
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-740-g09fba8b (tiles) character file.

curse the Acrobat (Merfolk Gladiator) Turns: 73201, Time: 12:14:27

HP 220/220 (223) AC 17 Str 17 XL: 25 Next: 79%
MP 37/37 EV 38 Int 8 God: Okawaru [******]
Gold 6085 SH 33 Dex 24 Spells: 8 memorised, 21 levels left

Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : + n - +8,+5 demon trident (elec) {god gift}
Res.Cold : + + . Warding : + f - +4 skin of Zhor {rC++}
Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : . X - +3 shield {rF+} {god gift}
Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . m - +1 wizard hat
Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . z - +2 cloak {rPois}
Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . V - +2 pair of dwarf gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . F - +2 pair of boots of Indomitability {Str-2
Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: + i - amulet of warding
Saprovore : . . . Levitation : . T - ring of Nyunwoacu {rF+ Dam+6 SInv}
Ctrl.Flight: . E - +4,+5 ring of slaying

@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: change form in water, swift swim, horns 1, berserk 1, breathe flames 1,
deformed body, teleport control, Int -2, Dex -1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Breathe Fire
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, silver, gossamer

You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and seen 51 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 2 times.
You have visited 1 bazaars.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer, Ossuary and Volcano.

You have collected 7230 gold pieces.
You have spent 187 gold pieces at shops.


Hand weapons
n - a +8,+5 demon trident of electrocution (weapon) {god gift}
h - 5 throwing nets (quivered)
v - 4 javelins of returning
b - a +2 orcish robe of resistance
c - a +2 helmet
f - the +4 skin of Zhor (worn) {rC++}
(You took it off a yaktaur on level 5 of the Vaults)

It greatly protects you from cold.
g - a +4 elven ring mail of magic resistance
k - a +6 swamp dragon armour {god gift}
l - a +2 pair of boots of running
m - a +1 wizard hat (worn)
s - a +2 fire dragon armour
z - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
A - a +0 shield of reflection {Donald}
B - a +3 leather armour of fire resistance {god gift}
D - a +2 cloak of darkness
F - the +2 pair of boots of Indomitability (worn) {Str-2 Dex+2 Dam+3}
(You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)

It affects your strength (-2).
It affects your dexterity (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+3).
K - the +3 ring mail of the Boiling Point {god gift, rN+ Stlth--}
(Okawaru gifted it to you on level 4 of the Vaults)

It protects you from negative energy.
It makes you much less stealthy.
M - a mottled dragon hide
Q - a +0 storm dragon hide
V - a +2 pair of dwarven gauntlets of strength (worn)
X - a +3 shield of fire resistance (worn) {god gift}
Magical devices
e - a wand of disintegration
r - a wand of digging {zapped: 6} {maybe digg}
O - a wand of hasting (4)
W - a wand of teleportation (5)
j - 9 honeycombs
a - 2 scrolls of remove curse
u - 3 scrolls of identify
J - 2 scrolls of blinking
L - 7 scrolls of recharging
i - an amulet of warding (around neck)
o - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
q - an uncursed amulet of conservation
t - a +5 ring of strength
w - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
x - an uncursed amulet of rage
y - a ring of protection from fire
C - a ring of regeneration
E - a +4,+5 ring of slaying (left hand)
H - an uncursed ring of wizardry
I - a +3 ring of protection
P - the ring of Shaolin {EV+8}
(You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)

[ring of evasion]
It affects your evasion (+8).
R - an uncursed ring of levitation
T - the ring of Nyunwoacu (right hand) {rF+ Dam+6 SInv}
(You took it off a yaktaur on level 5 of the Vaults)

[ring of see invisible]

It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+6).
It protects you from fire.
U - an uncursed amulet of stasis
Y - an uncursed amulet of clarity
d - 4 potions of curing
G - 3 potions of heal wounds
N - 2 potions of speed
Z - 2 potions of might
p - a +1 rod of summoning (13/13)
(You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)

+ Level 23.8 Fighting
- Level 19.6 Polearms
- Level 5.0 Throwing
- Level 9.0 Armour
+ Level 26.1 Dodging
- Level 6.0 Stealth
- Level 4.0 Stabbing
- Level 15.0 Shields
- Level 8.1 Traps
- Level 5.0 Unarmed Combat
- Level 9.1 Spellcasting
- Level 10.0 Charms
- Level 6.0 Translocations
- Level 4.0 Air Magic
- Level 8.0 Invocations
- Level 5.0 Evocations

You have 21 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger
a - Apportation Tloc ###....... 1% 1 None
b - Swiftness Chrm/Air ###....... 1% 2 ##.....
c - Flight Chrm/Air ###....... 3% 3 ###....
d - Blink Tloc N/A 2% 2 ##.....
e - Shroud of Golubria Chrm/Tloc ####...... 1% 2 ##.....
f - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air ###....... 1% 2 ##.....
g - Haste Chrm ####..... 50% 6 #######
h - Passwall Trmt/Erth #......... 61% 3 ###....

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Dungeon (19/27) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (4/4) D:9
Elf (3/3) Orc:3 Lair (8/8) D:9 Swamp (5/5) Lair:5
Spider (5/5) Lair:5 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Vaults (5/5) D:16
Blade (1/1) Vaults:4 Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3

Nemelex Xobeh
Sif Muna
the Shining One

Orc:1: * Orc:4: //(( Elf:1: ? Vaults:2: % Vaults:4: ( Vaults:5: / Abyss: ((

Dungeon: Abyss

Elf:2 Nikola
Lair:8 exclusion: oklob plant
Spider:5 Boris

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You revert to your normal form in water.
You are very nimble and swift while swimming.
You have a pair of small horns on your head.
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
You can breathe flames.
You are clumsy (Dex -1).
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
You are dopey (Int -2).
You can control translocations.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Saturday, 20th October 2012, 22:11

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

Wear those boots of running!

Slime corridors are wider than they used to be. Digging isn't needed. It's still a tough branch, though. You've got clarity, which is good, but it's also helpful to have an amulet of stasis there.

Crypt is a good source of XP. Most enemies there are vanilla undead. Draining is the least worrisome thing there. Bring plenty of food.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Tuesday, 23rd October 2012, 12:45

Re: Merfolk Armor and skill advice please!

The amulet question: clarity as your default is fine, but be sure to have that rMut ready when you meet Orbs of Fire.

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