Draining - Too much?

[HonestJim]

I'm currently playing with a TrBe at XL 22 and I can't seem to get him to lvl 23. I've cleared the last level of the vault, which had bumloads of exp, and cleared The elven halls up to level 7. In total I must have gotten at least 200k exp, but because there seem to be so many creatures that can drain you, I'm basically almost back to being level 21.

I find it slightly frustrating that draining takes so much experience, I have some rN+, but apparently not nearly enough.

Also, I'm facing a bit of a conundrum. I've been wearing and regularly upgrading this lovely robe of resistance, but now I've found a golden dragon armor and I'm contemplating cranking up my armor skill. I have some nice dodge however, and wearing the golden dragon armor severely cuts my EV. Is training armor worth it? Or should I stick with my trusty robe?

Here's the char dump:

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.7.1-1-g7ce9b19 character file.

Dargoth the Wrestler (Troll Berserker)                             Turns: 96245, Time: 12:18:44

HP 192/192       AC 24     Str 36      Exp: 22/648481 (0), need: 92518
MP  12/12        EV 11     Int  7      God: Trog [******]
Gold 5577        SH 28     Dex  9      Spells:  0 memorised, 23 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : .     - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   L - +2 gold dragon armour
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   v - +2 shield {rN+}
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   Q - +2 elf wizard hat {Int+3}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   w - +2 cloak {MR}
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   C - amulet of the Air {cFly +Lev rElec EV+3 St
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   N - ring of protection from magic
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: +   D - ring of Shaolin {EV+8}

@: quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, antennae 1, claws 3, talons 1, blink 1, fire resistance 1, speed 1, fast
metabolism 3, -10% hp, gourmand, sense surroundings 1, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough skin
2, AC +3, Int -1
a: Blink, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke
Levitation


You are on level 6 of the Elven Halls.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and seen 69 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.

You have collected 6158 gold pieces.
You have spent 601 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - the +6,+2 spear of Clor (quivered) {slay orc, rN+ MR}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   It is especially effective against all of orcish descent.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
Armour
 l - the +3 pair of gloves "Puadyasoakh" {rF+ rC+ rN+ Dam+2}
   (You took it off Nikola on level 5 of the Elven Halls)   
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 p - a +2 dwarven cloak of darkness
 r - a +7 robe of resistance
 v - a +2 shield of positive energy (worn)
 w - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 L - a +2 gold dragon armour (worn)
 Q - a +2 elven wizard hat of intelligence (worn)
Magical devices
 g - a wand of polymorph other
 h - a wand of fire {zapped: 4}
 i - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 9}
 q - a wand of polymorph other
 y - a wand of hasting (2)
 F - a wand of cold {zapped: 1}
 G - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 2}
 H - a wand of disintegration
 P - a wand of flame
Comestibles
 a - 10 meat rations
 j - 2 bread rations
 M - a choko
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 e - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 m - a scroll of fog
 o - 2 scrolls of detect curse
 t - a scroll of identify
 B - a scroll of fear
 J - a scroll of remove curse
 K - a scroll of magic mapping
Jewellery
 k - a bone ring
 u - a copper ring
 x - a ring of dexterity
 C - the amulet of the Air (around neck) {cFly +Lev rElec EV+3 Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   [amulet of controlled flight]
   It affects your evasion (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you levitate.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 D - the ring of Shaolin (left hand) {EV+8}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   [ring of evasion]
   It affects your evasion (+8).
 I - a +5 ring of evasion
 N - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 O - an uncursed ring of sustenance
 S - an uncursed ring of sustenance
Potions
 b - a potion of resistance
 f - 7 potions of healing
 n - a potion of speed
 s - a potion of mutation
 z - an emulsified green potion
 T - a potion of heal wounds
Books
 A - a manual of Stealth   


 You have 0 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 15 Fighting
 + Level 1 Throwing
 + Level 3 Armour
 - Level 16 Dodging
 - Level 6 Stealth
 + Level 5 Stabbing
 + Level 11 Shields
 + Level 3 Traps & Doors
 - Level 23 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 6 Evocations


You have 23 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (24/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (7/7) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9           Swamp (5/5) Lair:5
  Slime (0/6) Lair:7        Snake (5/5) Lair:5         Hive (2/2) D:13
  Vault (8/8) D:18          Blade (1/1) Vault:6       Crypt (2/5) Vault:4
   Tomb (1/3) Crypt:2     
   Dis: Hell:1         Geh: Hell:1         Coc: Hell:1         Tar: Hell:1

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
Beogh

Shops:
D:5: /  D:17: +  Orc:2: ?[?([  Orc:3: ?/*=?  Vault:3: (  Vault:8: %

Portals:
Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24
Abyss: D:21 D:23
Pan: D:24

Annotations
D:10 exclusion: 5 flame clouds
Swamp:1 exclusion: Roxanne
Crypt:1 exclusion: curse skull


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).
You have a pair of small antennae on your head.
You have sharp toenails.
You are partially covered in colorless scales (AC +1).
You are partially covered in colorless scales (AC +1).
You can translocate small distances at will.
You are dopey (Int -1).
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You cover ground quickly.
You are frail (-10% HP).
You passively map a small area around you.



Thanks for any advice! He's my first character to ever get a few runes, I'm quite attached to him. I also have been experimenting heavily with mutation with this one, but I decided to quit while I'm ahead after losing my magical resistance mutation. Even so, the frail mutation is still bothering me.

[KoboldLord]

If you've found an amulet of warding, those have a hidden level of negative energy resistance that goes with their stated effect. If you get three levels you are completely immune to draining, although in practice I rarely bother getting that much.

Looks like you have three levels of the main Dungeon and three levels of Crypt left -- I doubt you'll get much more loot suitable for trolls, but at least you can top off your character levels and grind your combat skills the rest of the way up. Crypt will cost you some food, because there isn't much fresh meat down there, but you can probably bury any opposition in the end vault under waves of Brothers in Arms and replenish the piety in D or Zot.

Getting through Zot will probably claim the lives of many Brothers in Arms, but with careful play you should be able to do it. Good luck!

[Grimm]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

[szanth]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

Arnold: Hey Grandpa, I've got a problem.
Grandpa: Shoot it at me, short man.
Arnold: Well, see, there's this big jerk at school, he says he's gonna...
Grandpa: - says he's gonna beat you up, eh?
Arnold: Well, yeah.
Grandpa: Gonna give you 24 hours to dangle, eh?
Arnold: That's right!
Grandpa: Big guy, huh? Slow, but with lots of power. Squash you like a bug, eh?
Arnold: Yeah, yeah! What should I do?
Grandpa: I have no idea.
Arnold: I've got to think of something, Grandpa.
Grandpa: Well, you could skip town. But then you'd have to live the rest of your life in fear, always looking over your shoulder, waiting for... that day. You try reasoning with him? Oh, a moron, eh? Well Arnold, I wish I knew what to tell you. In eighty years I think I've only learned one thing for sure.
Arnold: What's that?
Grandpa: Never eat raspberries.
[Grandpa holds his stomach]
Grandpa: Gotta go!
[Grandpa runs to the bathroom]

[HonestJim]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

I can't help myself. I'm a gambling man! And that faster movement mutation saved my ass numerous times, as well as the blink one. Now if I could only get control teleport somehow....

Maybe.... If I just quaff a few more mutation potions....

[szanth]

It's difficult, y'know? The general feeling I get from Crawl is that everything is random, and playing it safe the whole way through will end with you dead through no fault of your own regardless. So it's difficult to not indulge in the completely random and possibly beneficial mutation potion nomnoms.

[Sealer]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

Kinda misplaced as he gained additional unarmed auxiliary ,speed 1 and rf+ which is a great set indeed.

[smock]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

Kinda misplaced as he gained additional unarmed auxiliary ,speed 1 and rf+ which is a great set indeed.

With all the mutagenic corpses out there, it might be a good idea to gamble away if you find cTele or stasis. You can stop when you're ahead. This could be especially true for a Nemelexian with an upcoming legendary helix card or two.... I've never tried this. Has anyone else?

Actually, I might just try this with a SE or Dr TM of Nemelex next time around. By the end of the Vaults you can end up with 40+ potions of mutation.

[Grimm]

The thing about gambling with mutations is that if it goes wrong it costs you pots of cure mut, which given the amount of involuntary mutations that begin to rain down later in the game become very valuable.

Though I don't always follow my advice. When you get that sweet mutation, you feel like...like the king of the world! Just one more hit...

[Grimm]

I should add that my advice also stems from experiences with multiple bad mutations. Ever have increased hunger? Or berserkitis? Or teleportitis? Try ALL THREE TOGETHER for an extremely short game and a lingering fear of mauve text.

[Curio]

Never experiment with mutations! That's my advice.

I can't help myself. I'm a gambling man! And that faster movement mutation saved my ass numerous times, as well as the blink one. Now if I could only get control teleport somehow....

Maybe.... If I just quaff a few more mutation potions....

Don't forget the taste! It's always something new - from wet socks and pumpkins to gravy and mozzarella cheese.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Toying with mutations is one of the best parts of Crawl. Even though my last winner had a pretty good set aside from Teleportitis, I was disappointed when my mutations got irrevocably fixed.

[HonestJim]

Looks like I'm not the only one who cannot resist the lure of mutation gambling... Maybe we should start a support group?

"Hello everyone, my name is Jim and I'm an addict."

Little update on my troll: He has cleared Crypt, Elven Halls 7 and now I'm contemplating my first entry in the realm of Zot! Not sure if he's ready at XL 23 though. Maybe I should scum some more, or try one of the Hells? I'm not looking to get all the runes, don't feel my TrBe is up for it, and I'm kinda itching to try for my first win.

Here's the dump. Should I go for it?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.7.1-1-g7ce9b19 character file.

Dargoth the Wrestler (Troll Berserker)                            Turns: 112467, Time: 14:21:38

HP 230/230       AC 19     Str 37      Exp: 23/752322 (4), need: 107927
MP  10/10        EV 18     Int  8      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 6794        SH 30     Dex  8      Spells:  0 memorised, 24 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : .     - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   r - +7 robe {rC+ rF+}
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   v - +2 shield {rN+}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   Q - +2 elf wizard hat {Int+3}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   w - +2 cloak {MR}
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   C - amulet of the Air {cFly +Lev rElec EV+3 St
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   S - ring of sustenance
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: +   O - ring of sustenance

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy
A: unfitting armour, antennae 1, claws 3, blink 1, fire resistance 1, fast metabolism 3,
gourmand, -10% mp, sense surroundings 1, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, screaming 1, spit poison
2, tough skin 2, AC +3, Str +1, Dex -1
a: Spit Poison, Blink, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Levitation


You are in the Vestibule of Hell.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are very hungry.

You have visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and seen 75 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.

You have collected 7615 gold pieces.
You have spent 841 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 r - a +7 robe of resistance (worn)
 v - a +2 shield of positive energy (worn)
 w - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 Q - a +2 elven wizard hat of intelligence (worn)
Magical devices
 b - a wand of digging (7)
 d - a wand of lightning
 i - a wand of draining (6)
 y - a wand of hasting (5)
 A - a wand of teleportation (10)
 G - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 3}
 R - a wand of enslavement
 T - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 2}
 Y - a wand of paralysis
Comestibles
 a - 24 meat rations
 o - 12 royal jellies
 M - 28 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 14 scrolls of teleportation
 j - a scroll of blinking
 k - 2 scrolls of identify
 m - a scroll of fog
 J - 20 scrolls of remove curse
 K - 5 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
 c - the amulet of Cekugob {Ward -TELE Hunger rElec rPois rN+ AC+1 EV+1}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)   
   [amulet of warding]
   It affects your AC (+1).
   It affects your evasion (+1).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
   It speeds your metabolism.
 C - the amulet of the Air (around neck) {cFly +Lev rElec EV+3 Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   [amulet of controlled flight]
   It affects your evasion (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you levitate.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 D - the ring of Shaolin {EV+8}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   [ring of evasion]
   It affects your evasion (+8).
 N - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 O - a ring of sustenance (left hand)
 S - a ring of sustenance (right hand)
Potions
 n - 4 potions of heal wounds
 p - 10 potions of healing
 q - a potion of resistance
 F - 3 potions of cure mutation
 L - 5 potions of speed
Miscellaneous
 g - a decaying rune of Zot
 h - a serpentine rune of Zot
 l - a silver rune of Zot


 You have 4 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 17 Fighting
 + Level 1 Throwing
 + Level 3 Armour
 - Level 16 Dodging
 - Level 6 Stealth
 + Level 6 Stabbing
 + Level 13 Shields
 + Level 4 Traps & Doors
 - Level 24 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 6 Evocations


You have 24 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (27/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (7/7) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9           Swamp (5/5) Lair:5
  Slime (0/6) Lair:7        Snake (5/5) Lair:5         Hive (2/2) D:13
  Vault (8/8) D:18          Blade (1/1) Vault:6       Crypt (5/5) Vault:4
   Tomb (1/3) Crypt:2         Zot (0/5) D:27       
   Dis: Hell:1         Geh: Hell:1         Coc: Hell:1         Tar: Hell:1

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
Beogh

Shops:
D:5: /  D:17: +  D:26: +!([  Orc:2: ?[?([  Orc:3: ?/*=?  Vault:3: (  Vault:8: %

Portals:
Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:26 D:27
Abyss: D:21 D:23 D:25 D:26
Pan: D:24

Annotations
D:10 exclusion: 5 flame clouds
Swamp:1 exclusion: Roxanne
Crypt:5 exclusion: curse skull


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).
You have a pair of small antennae on your head.
You are partially covered in colorless scales (AC +1).
You are partially covered in colorless scales (AC +1).
You can translocate small distances at will.
You are clumsy (Dex -1).
Your flesh is heat resistant.
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You passively map a small area around you.
You occasionally shout uncontrollably.
You can spit moderately strong poison.
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).



[Grimm]

When the Crawl overworld comes to be designed there should be a section of the capital city with back alleys full of crazed bums mainlining mutation potions.

[mrbobbyg]

My first mutation experimentation was with glow. I got a barbed tail on my first try, and it took me several frustrating rage quits before I learned that glow mutations generally suck.

[HonestJim]

Ok, so I was doing some first time sightseeing in one of the hells, Gehenna, just minding my own business and eating some hellhounds (Spi-cy!), when suddenly I find my ass thrown in the abyss.

I've had some abyss experiences before, with lower level characters, and those didn't really end well. Now, I'm quite confident about my good ol' troll's slaughtering abilities, but torment tends to make me panicky.

Pointers, anyone?

EDIT: Never mind, I got out pretty easily. worst I encountered was a few bone dragons. My first abyss survival! Huzzah!

[danr]

This is a bit off-topic, but anyhow - Abyss is much easier than Hells - if you can handle Hells, Abyss will be a cakewalk.

[HonestJim]

Well, as it turns out, I couldn't handle hells.

I could have looked up the dangers of hells and wisely decided to avoid them, but there is no substitute for experiencing it yourself, right?

[szanth]

It's kind of cheap to do so, but starting out as a CK of Xom and forsaking him on turn 1 could net you some profitable mutations. From there you just have to deal with him occasionally screwing you over, but I mean, how is that different from what Xom usually does?