KoboldLord wrote:some12fat2move wrote:Exactly. So how do we reinforce the intended distinction, and balance Fighter and Gladiator while we're at it?
Why? Either one already covers both parts of the distinction. The distinction is completely artificial, since the same character can swap back and forth at will for most of the early game. The game mechanics don't enforce sticking with your initial choice until you've either picked up some magic or you have enormous amounts of armor or dodging skill.
While it's true that you don't have to stick with your initial choice, a lot of games are started with an idea in mind - like a heavy-armour Hill Orc of Okawaru, perhaps, or a Merfolk who wants to start with a spear and nets, armour be damned. You might switch, but there's a good chance that you won't. A more flexible species has a higher tendency to switch, and not to mention some players have more flexibility than others, but still there's a lot of characters that have a game plan in mind and are likely to stick to it, and these characters will want a class that gives them what they're looking for in a package that can survive the early game. The intended distinction between Fighter and Gladiator is, I admit, feebler than most other classes, but not completely artificial. They might be close enough that they're best off merged though. I guess I came off sounding like "OMG! We have to save these classes!", but really I was just pointing out some ways to add distinction since that's what I thought the OP was asking for. I would not disagree with a good merger idea, or removing one or the other.
KoboldLord wrote:some12fat2move wrote:Some of the proposals have suggested giving Fighters plate armour and full armour slots (gloves, boots, etc), which is definitely a good start (makes Fighters better and more focused on armour-ness). Taking the buckler (and helm) away from the Gladiator and giving it the Fighter would make things more balanced, as would giving a nice enchantment to the Fighter's starting weapon. I suggest tweaking Gladiator starting stats to have 2 or 3 points or so moved from STR to DEX to increase distinction.
I see you want gladiators to be nerfed. Can you explain why you would want to do that? Neither fighter nor gladiator is in the upper half of martial backgrounds, and they certainly don't need extra bonus nerfs to enforce a completely artificial distinction. If you're intent on nerfing the gladiator into the ground to protect the fighter's niche, why not just remove the gladiator and give all the stuff it had to the fighter?
I wasn't taking other classes into account since this seemed like a Fighter to Gladiator thread, but I guess I can do that. Heck, I probably should have been doing that to start with. Here goes:
As it is, there's no reason to choose Fighter since Gladiator is just better (free throwing nets), and no reason to choose Gladiator since javelin Hunters are just better (javelins + throwing nets). This is why, as you say, neither fighter nor glad is in the upper half of martial backgrounds. In addition, we have a distinction problem between glads and javelin hunters - both are dodgy, netty classes liable to branch into magic quickly or just pick up the heaviest armour they find (depending on your plan, or what you find). From this perspective it appears Gladiators are responsible for the distinction problems - they are somewhere between Fighter and Hunter and just too similar to both. Removing glads and buffing fighters does look like the best plan, as it would solve the problems of distinction and of balance.