Instant death situation. Could it have been avoided?

[sirprim]

Howdy forum,

My TeWn just got splatted by a centaur wielding a wand of fire on D:6. Centaur comes into sight, zaps twice, dead.

So while I could do nothing in that particular situation, is there something to be done beforehand? Like: Was my evasion too low? Or something else? Or is this just really really bad luck?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0-32-gfa280cc character file.

559 sirprim the Cutter (level 7, -6/40 HPs)
             Began as a Tengu Wanderer on May 3, 2012.
             Killed from afar by a centaur (27 damage)
             ... with a wand of fire
             
             ... on Level 6 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 01:03:05 (6433 turns).

sirprim the Cutter (Tengu Wanderer)                 Turns: 6433, Time: 01:03:05

HP  -6/40        AC  6     Str 13      XL: 7   Next:  8%
MP  11/11        EV 12     Int 16      God:
Gold 48          SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  1 memorised,  8 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +    f - +1,+3 dagger (vamp)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  s - +0 mottled dragon armour
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (helmet restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    y - amulet of the gourmand
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    z - ring of see invisible {unknown}
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: +    j - +2 ring of intelligence

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: able to fly, beak, talons 3
a: Fly


You were on level 6 of the Dungeon.
You were completely stuffed.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 6 of its levels.

You collected 278 gold pieces.
You spent 280 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0,+0 sling
 f - a +1,+3 vampiric dagger (weapon)
 o - a +1,+1 dagger of venom (quivered)
 w - a +1,+2 orcish dagger
 E - a +0,+0 spear
 J - a -1,+1 orcish dagger
 K - a +1,+1 dagger
Missiles
 b - 21 poisoned +0 needles
 d - 60 +0 stones
 A - a -3 throwing net
Armour
 c - a +0 robe
 k - a cursed +0 buckler
 s - a +0 mottled dragon armour (worn)
Magical devices
 x - a wand of heal wounds (6)
Comestibles
 i - an apple
 l - 4 rotting chunks of giant frog flesh
 p - a rotting chunk of giant frog flesh
 v - 2 meat rations
 D - a bread ration
 H - a rotting chunk of giant cockroach flesh
Scrolls
 h - a scroll of remove curse
 m - 4 scrolls of blinking
 r - a scroll of detect curse
 C - a scroll of fog
 I - a scroll of fear
 L - 2 scrolls of identify
Jewellery
 j - a +2 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 q - a cursed -2 ring of protection {unknown}
 u - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 y - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 z - a ring of see invisible (right hand) {unknown}
Potions
 g - a potion of mutation {unknown}
 n - a potion of magic
 B - 2 potions of curing
 F - a potion of restore abilities {unknown}
Books
 t - a book of Minor Magic   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   Blink                              Translocation                2
   Call Imp                           Summoning                    2
   Repel Missiles                     Charms/Air                   2
   Slow                               Hexes                        2
   Conjure Flame                      Conjuration/Fire             3
   Mephitic Cloud                     Conjuration/Poison/Air       3
Magical staves
 e - a staff of cold {unknown}


   Skills:
 - Level 4,0 Fighting
 + Level 6,3 Short Blades
 + Level 1,1 Polearms
 + Level 3,3 Armour
 - Level 2,6 Dodging
 - Level 4,0 Stealth
 + Level 1,0 Shields
 + Level 1,5 Spellcasting
 + Level 0,5 Conjurations
 - Level 1,0 Evocations


You had 8 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           #....        24%         1    Strawberry


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (6/27)           
Temple: D:4-7          Orc: D:6-11     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Kikubaaqudgha
The Shining One
Zin

Shops:
D:4: +  D:5: +

Annotations
D:2 Sigmund
D:4 Menkaure
D:5 loot behind glass, Grinder, Pikel


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can fly.
You have a beak for a mouth.
You have claws for feet.


Message History

The goblin shoots a stone. The stone hits you!
The goblin unwields an uncursed sling. The goblin hits you.
You see here a stone.
You puncture the goblin. You feel better.
The goblin is heavily wounded.
The goblin hits you but does no damage.
You puncture the goblin. You feel better.
You kill the goblin!
A centaur comes into view.
The centaur shouts!
The centaur moves out of view.
Things that are here:
an uncursed sling; 22 stones
There are several objects here.
Pick up an uncursed sling? ((y)es/(n)o/(a)ll/(m)enu/*?g,/q)
a - an uncursed sling; d - 60 stones
The centaur zaps a wand. The bolt of fire hits you! The centaur zaps a wand.
The bolt of fire hits you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

#.#.#########
#.............  .
.##....######  #.#####
.##<.....#..#  #.......
.#..........#  #........
.#.##......##.##..c......
.#.##..........#.........
.#.##...#.#######........
.#.##........((.@.........
.#.##.#...#######(......#
.#.#..#####    #........#
.%.........   .....$....#
........... ............#
........................#
....%.....B.............
......################.
......#


You could see a centaur.

Vanquished Creatures
  4 giant frogs (D:6)
  An iguana (D:5)
  2 worker ants
  An orc wizard (D:5)
  2 adders
  2 iguana skeletons
  A worm (D:2)
  5 giant geckos
  8 orcs
  18 goblins
  14 hobgoblins
  10 kobolds
  An ooze (D:1)
  5 ball pythons
  11 bats
  6 giant cockroaches
  A giant newt (D:2)
  11 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:5)
104 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc priest (D:3)
  A rat (D:1)
  2 toadstools
4 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 108 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | sirprim, the Tengu Wanderer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 1/1
   147 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Polearms
   436 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
   438 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/16 MP: 3/3
  1095 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 18/20 MP: 4/4
  1163 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  1292 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  1836 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/26 MP: 5/5
  3716 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 26/30 MP: 7/7
  3917 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3947 | D:5      | Found Ucenoer's Book Emporium.
  4087 | D:4      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4173 | D:4      | Noticed Menkaure
  4327 | D:5      | Bought a book of Minor Magic for 280 gold pieces
  4332 | D:5      | Learned a level 1 spell: Magic Dart
  4513 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  4571 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  4831 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  4906 | D:5      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  4980 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  5056 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  5535 | D:5      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  5746 | D:6      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5931 | D:6      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 36/36 MP: 10/10
  6087 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades
  6427 | D:6      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 35/40 MP: 11/11
  6433 | D:6      | Killed from afar by a centaur


[mageykun]

Well, it's a little hard to say what you could have done, since you're a wanderer and I don't see your item list; I've got no idea what resources you had at your disposal.

Looking at the messages though- I see you choosing to pick up a sling and rocks, but no "a centaur comes into view". That means you wasted two turns on pickup with a dangerous enemy in sight. That probably wasn't a good idea. You should have been ducking for cover (or not, you don't have much of a corner to work with, and running down a hallway from ranged attacks is bad), or disabling / aggressing the centaur in some way at range, or closing to melee.

Edit: Oh, you added a dump.

Yup, you definitely chose to loot rather than engage. Bad move. You don't really have any good spells or wands, so you probably should have closed for melee. ...or if you didn't like those odds, used a scroll (blink down the hallway and corner hide, blink to melee, escape with fear, cloud cover fog and then charge or flee, etc).

[Patashu]

-You could have been wielding the buckler if you weren't using two handed weaponry.
-If you didn't take a multi-turn action with an enemy in sight, you could have zapped heal wounds at yourself, read blinking, read fog and backed away (though that one is unreliable in an open area, only do it if you won't die in one turn!), read fear... You had a lot of options available.)

[sirprim]

Ah you are totally right, I derped.

But I actually did not pick up stuff with a centaur in sight :p

  Code:

A centaur comes into view.
The centaur shouts!
The centaur moves out of view.

Appears I wasnt paying attention enough and missed these lines (Oh boy, I am already of the slow and cautious type, but looks like Crawl got me there)

Lesson learned:

check
every
single
line
of
text

Thx

P.S.: In case you are wondering, I started with stealth and fighting @4 and shields and Evocations @1.

[sirprim]

-You could have been wielding the buckler if you weren't using two handed weaponry.

I didn't want to wear the buckler in the beginning, because EV seemed like my only defensive skill and taking an EV penalty wasn't appealing. Wrong decision?

-If you didn't take a multi-turn action with an enemy in sight, you could have zapped heal wounds at yourself, read blinking, read fog and backed away (though that one is unreliable in an open area, only do it if you won't die in one turn!), read fear... You had a lot of options available.)

Yeah, the stuff I've found with him was beyond awesome, thats why I was so mad that he killed me in a single turn (he did, right? Or is it more like: I pick up the sling. Zap. I pick up the bullets. Zap? Reading the log I am under the impression it was a single turn (for the centaur), but I'm not grasping every Crawl mechanic ... obviously ... )

[mageykun]

The evasion penalty is the least significant of the shield penalties. It's usually a much bigger deal that it's penalizing casting, or your melee damage / delay. That said, a buckler on a fragile early character is probably worth it.

Hrm. I'm not sure the real time order of those events! How turns work in crawl is you act, then you get a delay applied (duration depends on the action). Then you can't do anything till your delay runs out. (So your "turn" is always instantaneous, with varying lengths of time in between). I'm unsure of the order here though- if it went "2x pickup, long delay, centaur, centaur" or "pickup, delay, centaur, pickup, delay, centaur". Same result for you though, either way.

[sirprim]

"2x pickup, long delay, centaur, centaur" or "pickup, delay, centaur, pickup, delay, centaur". Same result for you though, either way.

Maybe I should start picking things up one by one, so that the new order is "pickup, delay, centaur, gtfo"
But on a more serious note: A centaur is faster than me, so it is possible to go like "regular action, delay, centaur, centaur", right?

[galehar]

picking up is a single turn action no matter how many items are being picked up. Dropping is multi-turn.
So, I think what happened was:

Turn 1: player move and see centaur. Centaur shout and move out of LOS.
Turn 2: player move on top of loot. Centaur move back into view.
Turn 3: player don't notice the centaur and pick up loot. Centaur zap twice, player die.

Although, even if you did something else on turn 2 and 3, you would still have died to the double zap. And you had no way of knowing that it had a wand of fire.

The one thing you could have done is learn rMsl before and cast it upon seeing the centaur.
There's not many t

[sirprim]

picking up is a single turn action no matter how many items are being picked up. Dropping is multi-turn.

Thank you for clarifying that. Picking up stuff one by one would feel pretty tedious I presume.

So, I think what happened was:

Turn 1: player move and see centaur. Centaur shout and move out of LOS.
Turn 2: player move on top of loot. Centaur move back into view.
Turn 3: player don't notice the centaur and pick up loot. Centaur zap twice, player die.

I am pretty sure, that the centaur wasn't visible on turn 2. But that doesn't change the fact, that I missed the warning on turn 1

And you had no way of knowing that it had a wand of fire.

Thats evil

The one thing you could have done is learn rMsl before and cast it upon seeing the centaur.

That sounds like reasonable advice there, though I guess the success rate would've been around the 50% mark. Still better than dying

There's not many t

??

[galehar]

Turn 1: player move and see centaur. Centaur shout and move out of LOS.
Turn 2: player move on top of loot. Centaur move back into view.
Turn 3: player don't notice the centaur and pick up loot. Centaur zap twice, player die.

I am pretty sure, that the centaur wasn't visible on turn 2. But that doesn't change the fact, that I missed the warning on turn 1

Well, centaur are fast, but not fast enough to move 2 squares and zap a wand twice in a single turn.
The other possibility would be that you picked up stuff, then move and see the centaur again. Then it shots you to death.

There's not many t

hings you could have done to avoid this death.

[sirprim]

Well, centaur are fast, but not fast enough to move 2 squares and zap a wand twice in a single turn.
The other possibility would be that you picked up stuff, then move and see the centaur again. Then it shots you to death.

After reviewing the screenshot, I think it was the second option. Judging by the blood on the floor, the sling probably lay one space next to where I died. So I moved and saw the centaur (again) and he went pew pew

Thank you everybody for your help, there are literally a million things to improve in order to succeed at Crawl.

[mageykun]

picking up is a single turn action no matter how many items are being picked up. Dropping is multi-turn.

Okay, just to be clear- does that also mean the delay is always the same? Or just that you can't be interrupted while picking things up.

If it's the former, it might make some new dash and grab tactics more viable in certain situations- I never even considered trying to grab a whole pile of loot while at risk, assuming it was suicide.

[galehar]

picking up is a single turn action no matter how many items are being picked up. Dropping is multi-turn.

Okay, just to be clear- does that also mean the delay is always the same? Or just that you can't be interrupted while picking things up.

There's no delay. It's a normal action, it takes 10 aut.

[varsovie]

I got nearly the same situation last week, come in sight of a centaur with fire arrow/bow, but made a move in the wrong direction (was tired). Of course this jerk had to burn my last blink scroll, and the teleport didn't kick-in fast enough.

[sirprim]

I watched this on FooTV.

This probably sounds like a really really dumb question, but what is FooTV?

I can see three ways you could have avoided this after noticing the centaur.
- use scrolls of blinking to get off the floor (this is an overreaction to a D:6 centaur though, they're very common by that depth).
- use Mephitic Cloud to confuse it while it was offscreen (I'm aware you didn't have it memorized, but you could have, and investing in the skills for that would have been a lot more useful than Armour or Stealth).
- this is by far the easiest one: don't move TOWARDS the centaur and give it two actions. Had you stayed still, it would have gotten only one action in your LOS, which is not enough for a centaur to kill you from 38 HP unless you have an elemental weakness or it has an improbable melee weapon. Had it zapped the wand of fire in that action you'd have been able to blink away without hesitation, since you would have just realized you were fighting something with a wand of fire. I can't guess what would have happened if you hadn't, though, because your character was really bad at killing things, but you had a book that gave you the option to make a character that wasn't really bad at killing things.

So basically finding Mephitic Cloud early makes it worth it to devote a major (all?) part of XP towards making it castable? I'm not sure how early I found it, but I will remember that advise next time.

[sirprim]

http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=footv

Ok, so this FooTV is able to replay games. But I honestly don't have a clue what all these lines want to tell me. It probably has to do with me playing on tiles and not on console. Is there a more beginner-friendly guide on how to use that?

[cerebovssquire]

You connect to "fooTV" via telnet. By typing the lines that guide gives into ##crawl IRC with some game-specific text added, fooTV plays the replays of games in the ASCII format. You can either connect to fooTV via a terminal in Linux or via putty (downloadable for free) in Windows. You just want telnet termcast.develz.org in your terminal (or putty, I guess? only have Linux) to connect to footv.

##crawl IRC can be connected to via browser or IRC client.

For instance, !lm randomplayer xxyy uniq=mennas -tv typed into IRC
would show randomplayer's XXYY killing mennas to anyone connected to fooTV.

[sirprim]

via a terminal in Linux or via putty (downloadable for free) in Windows.

I'm sitting in front of a Mac
Sorry to bother you guys, but any chance to use FooTV there?

[tasonir]

I don't have a mac myself, but I believe it has the same terminal buried under there as linux, as it's based off a similar codebase (way back, years ago, etc etc). If not there should certainly be a telnet/ssh client that can do it, but I don't know the details.

[varsovie]

as it's based off a similar codebase (way back, years ago, etc etc).

It's based on BSD, which is a Unix like Linux. But back then they didn't shared lot of code (maybe just the TCP/IP).

Anyway, from the doc:

as we expect
Linux and OS/X users to have simple access to ssh.

[Stormfox]

Finder -> Applications -> Utilities -> Terminal.app. Not good enough for console Crawl online without fiddling with some settings (and I use iTerm myself), but it gives you a command line.

[omegasean]

Haha 40 HP wanderer.

you will die hundreds of deaths

[sirprim]

Looks like that FooTV works on Terminals on Mac. Just got to get used to ASCII
Thanks everybody for the helpful contributions.

Haha 40 HP wanderer.

you will die hundreds of deaths

What is a good way to get more HP?

[Southpaw]

There are many ways to get more HP.

Leveling up gives more HP
Getting better armor gives you more "effective HP" (you take less damage per attack, therefore you can take more punishment)
Leveling up Fighting gives you more HP, but this effect is not very noticeable before level 10-12

[sirprim]

Well, yeah, all true. Maybe I should have asked differently: What would have been a good way to have more HP in that situation?
I cleared all D:1 to D:5, so likely no XP missed. I wore the heaviest armor I had and even had some points in figthing. I don't see how I could've had more at that point.

[Blade]

A good way to have more hp in that situation: don't play tengu. Your hp was fine for tengu, but tengu have terrible hp.

[Southpaw]

Blade is right. There really isn't a whole lot you can do to get more hp in the early game.

[moocowmoocow]

You should sum up one or two major things you learned from this and not overcomplicate things. One is tengu wanderer is more of a challenge combination not suitable for beginner. Two is learn about skill specialization. You need to focus on offensive power only in the beginning to have best chance of survival.

[sirprim]

tengu wanderer is more of a challenge combination not suitable for beginner.

I'll remember that. This will probably not stop me from taking random chars into the dungeon though

Two is learn about skill specialization. You need to focus on offensive power only in the beginning to have best chance of survival.

On a related note: I probably made the wrong weapon choice anyway. But I will focus much more on offense early, I promise.

[sirprim]

I recently had another instant death situation, but it was rather funny than frustrating this time:

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0-32-gfa280cc character file.

20 sirprim the Skirmisher (level 1, 17/20 HPs)
             Began as an Ogre Abyssal Knight on May 5, 2012.
             Was an Initiate of Lugonu.
             Was drained of all life
             ... on Level 1 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:01:32 (56 turns).

sirprim the Skirmisher (Ogre Abyssal Knight)          Turns: 56, Time: 00:01:32

HP  17/20        AC  3     Str 16      XL: 1   Next:  0%
MP   0/1         EV 10     Int 11      God: Lugonu [......]
Gold 20          SH  0     Dex  9      Spells:  0 memorised,  0 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    a - +2 mace
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  b - +0 robe
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (shield restricted)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (helmet restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    (no ring)
Saprovore : + . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    (no ring)

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, fast metabolism 1, saprovore 1, tough skin 1
a: Renounce Religion


You were on level 1 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Lugonu.
Lugonu was pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 1 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +2,+2 mace (weapon)
Armour
 b - a +0 robe (worn)
Comestibles
 c - 2 meat rations


   Skills:
 + Level 4,0 Fighting
 * Level 2,6 Maces & Flails
 + Level 0,7 Armour
 - Level 1,7 Dodging
 - Level 2,0 Invocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (1/27)           

Altars:


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have a fast metabolism.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
You have tough skin (AC +1).


Message History

Welcome, sirprim the Ogre Abyssal Knight.
Will you be the one to retrieve the fabulous Orb of Zot from the depths?
Lugonu says: Take this gate or call upon me to unleash you onto the world, my servant!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Found a dagger. Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
Found a pair of boots.
A sixfirhy comes into view.
Use which ability? (? or * to list)
You pass through the gate.
Welcome back to the Dungeon! You feel somewhat more hungry.
You can no longer depart the Abyss at will.
A kobold comes into view. It is wielding a glowing short sword.
The kobold shouts!
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Found 15 gold pieces.
You barely miss the kobold. The kobold barely misses you.
You closely miss the kobold.
The kobold hits you with a glowing short sword.
You die...

   ##########
####........#
 ...........#
   #........#
   #..<.....#
   #...@K...#
   #........#
$.............#
####........#.#
   #........# #
   #........#
   ########.#
           .


You could see a kobold.


Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | Abyss    | sirprim, the Ogre Abyssal Knight, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | Abyss    | Reached XP level 1. HP: 20/20 MP: 1/1
    53 | D:1      | You pass through the gate.
    56 | D:1      | Was drained of all life


The Kobold started 2 squares away from me, maybe I should've run ...

[Patashu]

The Kobold started 2 squares away from me, maybe I should've run ...

If you worshipped ash instead of lucy you'd know it had draining and run! Ash reasons

[A spy]

What happened there ?

Did you go into negative XP due to the draining ?

[TehDruid]

The Kobold started 2 squares away from me, maybe I should've run ...

If you worshipped ash instead of lucy you'd know it had draining and run! Ash reasons

Too bad there's no background starting with Ash.

[sirprim]

What happened there ?

Did you go into negative XP due to the draining ?

Yeah, instant death due to draining.

[TehDruid]

What happened there ?

Did you go into negative XP due to the draining ?

Yeah, instant death due to draining.

It has happened at least twice to me. Always a kobold.

[A spy]

Never ever ever let anything with a glowing weapon hit you on D:1. Or D:2.

Yeah, most weapon brands are likely to kill you in one or two hits at that stage of the game

[sirprim]

Never ever ever let anything with a glowing weapon hit you on D:1. Or D:2.

So that leaves running away from the Kobold.
Would you search for stairs and go to D:2? I see no other way to get away from the Kobold since he is the same speed as me.

[sirprim]

I would do everything possible to kill it before it hits me, which, since this is D:1, would probably be throwing crap at it.

I literally just spawned there. Would you throw a bread ration? I mean I had nothing except my mace, a robe and bread. I guess the mace could kill the kobold, but if it doesn't, then I just suicided even more.

[KoboldLord]

I think minmay is trying to say that you indeed completely and totally screwed. Crawl doesn't have a lot of unavoidable deaths, but starting cornered by an enemy with a branded weapon is one of them.

[rebthor]

I had 2 games in a row (IIRC) where I died to a Kobold with a poison dagger in less than 200 turns. I wish I could say that I've learned my lesson and run from glowing weapons, but unless you're streaking, it's a loss of 5 minutes.

[Stormfox]

The corollary to this is that if the enemy is wielding a glowing/runed weapon and does not manage to kill you with it despite hitting you several times, don't wield it. It probably has a decent -hit/-dam and will get you killed indirectly.