Vampire Summoner - what god?

[Oddysee]

Ok, I'm playing a Vampire Summoner at the moment and have just gotten to the Temple. I don't want yet another early death on a promising character so I was wondering what god to go with that will give me the easiest time?

[cerebovssquire]

Sif Muna. You can and should spam spells and channeling as much as you can in a fight, since Bloodless prevents regeneration but not casting/invoking, you get all the spells you need, and you are protected from the (very dangerous) summoning miscasts. Plus, my summoners tend to use amnesia a lot.
(this choice is basically a no-brainer, don't consider anyone else really)

Also - Character Builds, somemod?

[Oddysee]

Thanks, I've always been a little confused about Piety gain with Sif as there is never a "god message" when you do something she likes. About character builds, I'm not really sure. I'm not very experienced at all with casters. At the moment, I'm just flipping between training Spellcasting, Summonings and Ice Magic (for Ice Beasts) beyond that, I'm unsure.

[cerebovssquire]

Thanks, I've always been a little confused about Piety gain with Sif as there is never a "god message" when you do something she likes. About character builds, I'm not really sure. I'm not very experienced at all with casters. At the moment, I'm just flipping between training Spellcasting, Summonings and Ice Magic (for Ice Beasts) beyond that, I'm unsure.

Don't train Ice Magic. You only need it for one low-level spell, so just train Summonings and Spellcasting for now. Later you will want some Charms, and like on every light-armoured character some Dodging and Fighting (later!) won't go amiss.
Sif piety is pretty fast. Once you have * you have basically won the game because you can spam whatever whenever to whatever extent. Just continue training Summonings and Spellcasting, Summonings till you have your biggest spell castable under 10%, Spellcasting inbetween. Once you have ugly things, I'd get some support skills.

Also, don't underestimate Summon Scorpions!

[Oddysee]

Thank you again. Well unfortunately my promising Vampire Summoner died to a very unlucky encounter with a few Ogres and Joseph. I've now started a Spriggan Venom Mage. Any advice concerning what god to go with and skill training?

[cerebovssquire]

Vehumet for guaranteed, 5-MP full-LOS poison arrow and MP for no hunger cost. Remember to watch out for spell hunger.

Skill training will be usually something like this:
1) get mephitic cloud up without training air, hungerless Sting
2) get venom bolt up
3) get venom bolt to sub-honeycomb hunger
4) get some dodging (~25 ev)
5) get hungerless venom bolt
6) get poison arrow (with about 14 poison/conj), IMB, poisonous cloud

(after this, it depends on book finds), but possibly:
5) 5-10 T&D
8) haste, hungerless poison arrow, 30 ev, ~10 Fighting
9) cblink

[Oddysee]

Thanks again cerebovssquire. You've been amazingly helpful.

Sorry to ask you again but what about a Demonspawn FE? My apologies if this is getting annoying.

[cerebovssquire]

DsFE advice:

1) A fire elementalist's first goal is Sticky Flame - it clears everything up to and including Lair. After getting Sticky Flame you probably want some Spellcasting followed by Fireball at -10% failure rate. Following that, Fireball at sub-Honeycomb hunger and then some Dodging to EV 17-18 or so. If you find a buckler, put it on because there are barely any penalties for using it with a robe.

2) Now there are various routes to which you can take this character, depending mostly on god. I'll give you a short summary of my two favourites below. A simple (FE-style) choice is Vehumet, who gives full-range 4 MP fireball which is extremely powerful, and also gifts Bolt of Magma (which he enhances too).
Kikubaaqudgha isn't FE-style, but helps in building a necromancy hybrid with a pain weapon and high Necromancy skill, which is also extremely powerful.
If you are Kikubaaqudgha, this, if you are Vehumet, skip to 3):
You want a weapon skill to min delay (and Necromancy 15) after step 1) is completed. Good weapons to pain-brand at ****** are:
spear, whip, sabre (very fast, low-investment)
demon anything (very fast, high damage, low investment, but rare)
scimitar, trident (standard speed, decent damage, common)
quickblade (insane speed, extremely rare)

The demon weapons or qblade are obvious choices if you do have them by the time you hit ******, because pain damage does not depend on weapon damage but is calculated seperately (1dNecromancy skill), so a fast weapon is a good choice for maximum pain damage. However, don't wait for them if you don't, but instead brand any of the others with pain. In combat, cast Sticky Flame first and proceed to hit the monster with your pain weapon till it dies.

From Kiku you want the following spells:
Regeneration
Vampiric Draining (optional)
Agony
Dispel Undead
Sublimation of Blood

3) After those it depends on book finds (both Vehumet and Kiku). Bolt of Fire, Haste and Controlled Blink are extremely useful spells for either, besides the standard set of charms and translocations. Training evocations to ~14 and some more fire for a staff of fire is also good, in the case of Vehumet. You then want 12 staves.
Fighting 10 after 1) and 2) is especially important on a necromancer melee hybrid but also doesn't go amiss on a Vehumet blaster.

4) On a Vehumet char, get some melee skill if you find:
-staff of fire (12 staves)
-good lajatang (14 staves)
-demon weapon (12 for whip, 14 for blade/trident)
-good quickblade (8)

and if you completed step 1). For basically every character melee skill is important, and Vehumet characters with no melee are screwed when they run out of MP.

5) If you are a Kikubaaqudgha char and have completed steps 1)-3), and you find a Necronomicon, get Borgnjor's Revivication and Haunt. If you find a Grand Grimoire get Demonic Horde and Haunt.

As usual the content of this guide is something I'd commonly do, but it isn't optimal in all cases. Floor finds can suddenly change the course of any character.
Fire Storm is nothing you want for a three-rune game, and if you want to do extended with it I strongly advise waiting training for it until you have everything described in steps 1)-4). And of course you can pick other gods too, such as Nemelex or Sif Muna, and still get an easy win. This guide is just about Kiku and Veh.


I put this on the wiki because it is a lot less horrible than most stuff on the wiki: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=DsFE_guide

[banei]

Sorry to ask you again but what about a Demonspawn FE? My apologies if this is getting annoying.

You should concentrate on same build for a few days until you truly understand the basics. Just switching around like that won't help you to go further.

[Blade]

Sorry to ask you again but what about a Demonspawn FE? My apologies if this is getting annoying.

You should concentrate on same build for a few days until you truly understand the basics. Just switching around like that won't help you to go further.

It seems foolish to restrict yourself to a single combo just for the sake of "getting further." Play whatever you want to play; stick with one if you're still having fun, switch if you want to switch.

[Oddysee]

Thank you very much again cerebovssquire.

Well, I do tend to stick with builds I like for awhile. Before this, I played 10-15 Naga Monks of Chei (I loved the stat boosts). So now I wanted something completely different. I'm playing another Vampire Summoner at the moment, I really like them. I've found a Sif alter on D:2 aswell with this one so some nice early Piety.

[brickroad]

Speaking of, is there a weight to which gods drop early alters?

It seems I find, more than others, alters of Sif, Trog and Kiku, but I'm sure it's due to confirmation bias.

[KoboldLord]

Speaking of, is there a weight to which gods drop early alters?

It seems I find, more than others, alters of Sif, Trog and Kiku, but I'm sure it's due to confirmation bias.

Jiyva, Beogh, and Lugonu are not guaranteed overflow altars, so they are substantially more uncommon than the others. Other than that, I don't think there's any particular weight. There are a few non-overflow altars that can spawn at shallow levels for certain deities, but I don't think that would have the impact you saw, particularly since several of them are for other deities.

[Blade]

It might be just that siftrogkiku have several minitemple vaults, making them a lot more obvious than others. You're far more likely to notice and remember a human dying and being reborn as a zombie than a lone altar somewhere on the floor.

[brickroad]

It might be just that siftrogkiku have several minitemple vaults, making them a lot more obvious than others. You're far more likely to notice and remember a human dying and being reborn as a zombie than a lone altar somewhere on the floor.

That's a good point. I especially like that Kiku alter. Very twisted. What's the deal with the Sif vault though? The one that I always find stuffed into the broom closet at the end of the long hall. You know the one I mean? The Trog vault (with the burning book) is also very clever flavor wise. But if I am supposed to get a sense of flavor from the Sif vault, it's over my head.