Late Game Beogh


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Slime Squisher

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2011, 07:14

Late Game Beogh

Hey everyone,

Since I've never made it past the Vaults with a HOPr of Beogh, I was just wondering, is Beogh a viable god in the late game and extended late game? I've heard stories about how even Orc Warlords don't hold up in Zot, yet Beogh's wrath seems pretty dangerous.

Also, is Beogh a viable choice for non-priests? For example, if you played a HOFi, would it be viable to pick Beogh instead of Okawaru or Makhleb at the Temple?
TrCK:
Xom grants you an implement of some kind.
_Something appears at your feet!
4790 gold pieces {god gift}.

DsAr:
You blink. You feel slightly more hungry. Prince Ribbit hits you. You die...
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2011, 08:44

Re: Late Game Beogh

Beogh's altars don't guarantee spawn at any point in the game as far as I know, so hoping to pick Beogh up later would be a risky gamble for a hill orc, really.

The only reason you'd want to play anything other than a priest as an Orc is if you wanted to worship a different god, or wanted to play a primary caster.

The only advantage other starting builds would seem to have would be certain equipment (eg darts of blinking for warpers, spellbooks), and none of that has as great an advantage as the early Beogh piety would give you.

Most HOPr I play end up being able to convert followers very soon after hostile orcs are first encountered. These friendly orcs are very, very helpful.

Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2011, 11:40

Re: Late Game Beogh

I definitely wouldn't want to take orc followers to Hell/Pan/Tomb (although maybe I'll try it sometime anyway if I play another HOPr). Properly equipped orc warlords deal with just about everything in Zot, though.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2011, 17:28

Re: Late Game Beogh

I almost wish that Beogh would gift weapons/armor, but his gifts would have to be a bit more limited than Okawaru/Trog's/
Like Beogh has a longer gift timer and can only gift Orcish gear with a lower chance of gifting randarts.

He also needs more group support abilities, That you are able to activate.
I would not mind it if the walking on water thing was taken out for a Heal/Battlecry ability that affects all friendlies. (but not you)

That and if you start as a HOPr the game Auto boosts the chance of spawning a Saint Roka by 50% lol
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2011, 23:15

Re: Late Game Beogh

Orcs are not very good in Zot. I walked in with several warlords and a dozen knights, and left with only three orcs. Two of my warlords got instant-killed by an electric golem at the same time. If you have evaporate and a few mutation potions you can turn your warlords into shadow and storm dragons.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 27th January 2011, 04:09

Re: Late Game Beogh

I had a few moderately successful HOPr's and found them to be a disadvantage by the time you start hitting up branch end vaults, or Beogh help you, Zot. You end up being very dependent on your Orcs, sometimes to the point where if one linchpin goes down, most the rest of your army is doomed. And once your crowd of distributed damage dealing meat-shields goes down, you're in trouble.

If you ever get in over your head, you have a horrible dilemma- you could run (like a normal crawl player) and die a little bit later since you've lost your biggest source of damage / meat shields. Or you can stay and die now trying to defend your investment. I've experienced both- dying underpowered and alone in Zot, and falling in front of my orcs, desperately trying to save them from Elf:7.

The last straw? When you do finally lose your orcs, you often find yourself underleveled due to the experience penalty from your minons killstealing all game.

Mutating Orcs into other things is cool, but then your recall ability no longer works on them. If you don't have the spell, this makes life tedious. :roll:

I love HOPr's thematically, but because of the late game fizzle I don't play them very often anymore. Never tried a HO as anything else.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 27th January 2011, 20:03

Re: Late Game Beogh

I agree with you 100%
I think Beogh Needs to be Buffed, I mean he is an exclusive to one race, so he should be better or at least competitive with the other gods end game.

Those Warlords Died because you didn't give them any items with rE.
When going into Zot they all need the standard
rF+++
rN+++
rE+
Or else they will all get Melted Zapped and Zombified.
That means for a band of 6 Orcs (including you) need a Total of
rF+++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
rN+++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
rE++++++
Good Luck finding THAT many randarts/Ego Items!
Beogh NEEDS to help out with that.

Beogh should be HEAVILY modified/refined to help out with the gameplay style that he brings you.
I would not miss that silly Water Walking joke AT ALL if it ment that my orcs wouldn't get hopelessly slaughtered in Zot.

Maybe if Beogh randomly Blessed Orcish Items with an Ego, or turned them into randarts that would be Awesome, and make him comparable to non-exclusive gods like Okawaru.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 27th January 2011, 20:35

Re: Late Game Beogh

I like the water walking ability- it replaces levitation (mostly) so there's one less thing for you to search for. It also helps you brave the shoals and swamp earlier- two areas where crowds of orcs are surprisingly effective (so long as they don't get drowned by swamp drakes or aquamancers). Plus, it's thematic!

My biggest complaint, power wise, would probably be smite. The piety cost means you almost never use it- early game you can't afford it or else you'll lack the piety to convert early orc bands, and later on you don't want to risk losing recall, or worse, water walking. I'd love it if the cost were nerfed, removed, or replaced with something else (hunger, mp?).

The other thing that would help a lot was if the reinforcements scaled as the game went on (higher class orcs, better equipment, etc). Right now, if you lose your army late game, all the reinforcements are good for is a god gifted summon butterflies. They never survive long enough to be anything but temporary meat shields.

It would be nice if Beogh provided followers with resistances- this could probably be worked into the existing blessing framework. Or maybe it could work like Chie's resistances- free pips for wearing orcish gear, scaling with piety. I dislike the idea that he should do this by converting/producing randarts or ego armors- it would inevitably lead to the player trying to steal the armor for themselves. Heck, worst case senario- it would encourage player to deliberately get high level allies killed so they loot them.

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Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 28th January 2011, 07:17

Re: Late Game Beogh

As for looting good equipment off high level allies, that already sort of exists... when Beogh blesses an ally "with attack power" they get a fail-free EW II scroll on their weapon.

Some questions: How do you mutate orcs, and does Beogh punish you for it? Is it worth training Invocations at all? When you decide to leave Beogh for another more useful endgame god, do you lose your Orc army (turn hostile?)
TrCK:
Xom grants you an implement of some kind.
_Something appears at your feet!
4790 gold pieces {god gift}.

DsAr:
You blink. You feel slightly more hungry. Prince Ribbit hits you. You die...
"Hey, that's my toy!"
Xom revives you!
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 28th January 2011, 16:48

Re: Late Game Beogh

tormodpwns wrote:As for looting good equipment off high level allies, that already sort of exists... when Beogh blesses an ally "with attack power" they get a fail-free EW II scroll on their weapon.

Some questions: How do you mutate orcs, and does Beogh punish you for it? Is it worth training Invocations at all? When you decide to leave Beogh for another more useful endgame god, do you lose your Orc army (turn hostile?)


1. Mutagenic clouds or monsters with Polymorph Other. No, Beogh doesn't punish you for indirectly changing your orcs.
2. No, Invocations only increases Smiting damage.
3. Yes, unless you turn them into something else.

Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 04:13

Re: Late Game Beogh

all right so my HOPr is now in the Lair. Since I barely get the chance to fight ( I have like 4 knights, 3 warriors, 2 priests, a sorcerer, and an Orc) I have over 13k experience to spend. It's hard to train anything at all so I turned on Dodging, Stabbing, and Invocations to use some exp.

Is it viable to switch to TSO right bedew the Crypt? I've got tons of Invocations skill (nearly 10, and I can victory dance forever), and I can leave my Orc army somewhere I'll never go (like bottom of Lair) so I won't have to face my hostile army.
TrCK:
Xom grants you an implement of some kind.
_Something appears at your feet!
4790 gold pieces {god gift}.

DsAr:
You blink. You feel slightly more hungry. Prince Ribbit hits you. You die...
"Hey, that's my toy!"
Xom revives you!

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 05:16

Re: Late Game Beogh

tormodpwns wrote:all right so my HOPr is now in the Lair. Since I barely get the chance to fight ( I have like 4 knights, 3 warriors, 2 priests, a sorcerer, and an Orc) I have over 13k experience to spend. It's hard to train anything at all so I turned on Dodging, Stabbing, and Invocations to use some exp.


Train some spellcasting schools. You can get the low-level stuff castable in medium armor pretty easily, and the low-level self-buffs will help immensely. If you can get Haste, you can cast it on yourself and your knights and warlords.

tormodpwns wrote:Is it viable to switch to TSO right bedew the Crypt?


Switching to TSO for the post-endgame is always viable, no matter what your build was before then. Her conducts are painful in the less-suitable branches, though, since she insists you alert EVERY yaktaur and stone giant before you're allowed to fight them. Woe to you if you give one a minor boo-boo while trying to get at another dire threat.

You'll make Beogh sad, though. She put her trust in you.

tormodpwns wrote:I've got tons of Invocations skill (nearly 10, and I can victory dance forever), and I can leave my Orc army somewhere I'll never go (like bottom of Lair) so I won't have to face my hostile army.


If you're seriously worried about four knights and a sorceror, then you might want to put off abandoning Beogh some more. She sends more orcs after you as part of her wrath, and unlike most god wrath they won't unsummon after a period of time if you just try to run away. You'll also get TSO penance if you break chivalry against them.

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 11:16

Re: Late Game Beogh

I know it's a bit off topic, but I gotta ask - Since when is TSO a "she"? I thought it was male deity.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 14:50

Re: Late Game Beogh

The gods are genderless.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 15:59

Re: Late Game Beogh

The Crawl deities are non-gendered, but in English 'it' has a pejorative connotation so it's better to use whichever pronoun feels right for you. I see TSO as a Joan of Arc-type figure, so she gets a female pronoun. Other players see TSO in other ways, so they use a different pronoun, or the same pronoun for a different reason.

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 20:00

Re: Late Game Beogh

See, this is strange since I'm pretty sure the proper gender neutral pronoun is "he"..but I might be wrong, English isn't my first language.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 20:32

Re: Late Game Beogh

English isn't my first language either, but I've seen "she" used as a sort of neutral gender sometimes ("he" never). For boats and pets for example.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Sunday, 30th January 2011, 22:02

Re: Late Game Beogh

galehar wrote:English isn't my first language either, but I've seen "she" used as a sort of neutral gender sometimes ("he" never). For boats and pets for example.


Yeah I don't know why people do that. I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with, "Well, I own this boat, so it must be a woman, cause you can own them" or some crap.

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 31st January 2011, 07:51

Re: Late Game Beogh

Actually no with boats it's not "gender neutral", it's a "she". It's not just in English really, it's tradition to refer to boats as female.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 31st January 2011, 15:55

Re: Late Game Beogh

Hm. I'm pretty sure I've read elsewhere that Lugonu is expressly described as female, and I think at least one other god as well.

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Post Monday, 31st January 2011, 20:52

Re: Late Game Beogh

In-game, the gods deliberately are described without gender. Xom (at least in older versions) comes the closest to having gender declared, with one message referring to an "avuncular chuckle". (Look it up.)

Outside the game, it is traditional to refer to Lugonu as female, as this god's filler name during development was Lucy. An old learndb entry for Elyvilon listed this god as a goddess, and Sif also has a learndb entry indicating femininity.

(Dropping this now before it gets even more OT, though.)
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Slime Squisher

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 00:43

Re: Late Game Beogh

Anyways, I just finished the HOPr I was playing (I've posted it in the YASD/YAVP section if anyone is interested). I ended up dying in Zot:5.

I'll never know if an orc army is strong enough to take down Zot enemies because I had an unfortunate Water card from a legendary deck drown everybody except me on Zot:1. I think that if I take down enemies one at a time, I can surround them with my army and kill them fairly easily, including orbs of fire. It's when you face a large mob of, say, draconians or demon summons, that your army falters.

As for being underleveled, I found this was not the case. Although I probably only got about 30% of kills overall, I stayed at a high level throughout the game (although drawing 3 Experience cards probably helped). But still, I hit level 27 on Zot:1.
TrCK:
Xom grants you an implement of some kind.
_Something appears at your feet!
4790 gold pieces {god gift}.

DsAr:
You blink. You feel slightly more hungry. Prince Ribbit hits you. You die...
"Hey, that's my toy!"
Xom revives you!

Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 21st February 2011, 10:33

Re: Late Game Beogh

Holy Beogh, commanding an army was never so much fun as with Beogh!

Just for the knowledge, how does Beogh's orcish weapon's support work? Innate slaying bonus dependant on piety, e.g. at 5* piety you gain +5,+5?

Just for the record, on D:4 and D:5 respectively I found a +0,+6 and +0,+7 rings of slaying - pillowcasing times even with a simple orcish hand axe :)
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 23rd February 2011, 19:45

Re: Late Game Beogh

I just posted this elsewhere, so it's fresh in my brain.

Beogh's bonus is randomized. With max piety I think the max dam bonus is +7, but it will average to +4. But remember that this bonus is again randomized in the damage roll, so with max piety with beogh you will do on average 2 HP more damage per hit - and of course any brand damage based on base damage will increase accordingly.

As far as I know there's no orcish accuracy bonus.

Do the beogh army minions have piety or do they just get the base 50% chance of a +1 to damage for orcish equipment?

Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 23rd February 2011, 22:05

Re: Late Game Beogh

minmay wrote:Nope. In some languages "he" is gender neutral, in English it's always masculine. "It" is gender-neutral but is usually only used to refer to inanimate objects; "they" is technically incorrect but is frequently used.


This is not true. "He" is a traditional way to refer to something if you are unsure of the actual gender of the subject. Silly debates have sprung up over the correctness of use "they" for politeness, but "he" is the correct way to phrase it. Lugonu, though, had the codename "Lucy" during game development, so I always refer to her as a female.

Beogh, comparatively, is a weak god when lined up against the likes of Okawaru, Nemelex Xobeh, the Shining One, Makhleb, Kikubaaqudgha, etc.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 6th June 2011, 23:31

Re: Late Game Beogh

I am a great champion of Beogh. While I've never won with him, I've gotten a few level 25-27's, most of whom died to stupid deaths (Trying to explore Slime for the first time, or getting my 28 Str switched with 10 Dex at level 27). Going through this topic, there has been plenty said that I agree with, and plenty that I disagree with.

First off- I almost never play HOPr. Hill orcs are a hardy, solid early-game character, and unless the floor god doesn't generate any decent wands or blowgun/curare for you, making it to Orcish Mines really shouldn't be too much of a problem with any build. I instead use my background to try out different leaders. Some of my latest Beoghites have been a Crossbow-wielding armoured wanderer and a shield-using Earth elementalist (LRD is fun, Dig allows more room for your army, and I was really hoping for Statue Form so I could tank for my army). I'm currently discovering that Gladiators can turn into excellent armoured meatshields, especially with the piety bonus that applies to the helmet and buckler that you start with. Crusaders are also good, both for branding and berserking through the early game, and especially if you victory dance Charms, leading to the ability to Haste your Warlords later on. Playing through the early game without relying on Beogh support also gives you a great sense of your survivability without an army, which is important for later situations.

Anyway- once I hit the mines (usually ignoring the lair, unless I'm too weak), I grab the best orcish equipment I can find and go about finding the Beogh altar. Immediately upon converting to him (I could never even fathom Beogh as a she! He's certainly a great father figure, with an avuncular Orcish grin), I backtrack and pray over all of the orcish corpses and skeletons, which gives me a huge jump start on piety. Typically, I start converting minions halfway through Orc:3, unless the Beogh altar was really late or well-hidden.

The buff that Orc:4 got with all the new end vaults is amazing. My HOEE came out of it with 5 High Priest followers. As my spectators joked, I pretty much had Demonic Guardian mutation. Other than that, it's a great place to find weapons and armor to equip your new army (Ctrl-T and allowing them to pick up all is essential!). One of my knights in the most recent game has an orcish morningstar of distortion. The hobgoblin was devoured by a tear in reality!

Another great place is the Bailey vaults. In the best case scenario, you'll come out with a squadron of crossbow orcs and maybe a few with Crystal Plate (I got two suits in my last go!). I tend to pick up a fair amount of extra reaching weapons for my followers, as orc knights with reaching polearms are both helpful in combat and less likely to die in melee. Even in the least useful Baileys, you can get a few returning axes for your shock troops, and there's all that delicious Bailey loot for yourself.

Now, notice how I put the focus on the orcs. Your army is not your only asset, but it is a great asset- One that you want to keep well-equipped at all times. I generally work best as a damage tank for my orcs, thanks to Beogh's boost to armour effectiveness and the ease of retreating by swapping places. Once you have a cadre of 3 to 5 knights, it doesn't really matter if one or two of them dies. I usually end up traveling with no more than a dozen orcs, mostly warriors. Wizards and Priests have a tendency to die pretty fast, but if you give them plate mail or crystal (and possibly a strong/reaching weapon), you'll improve their chances of promoting to an even nicer glass cannon. I typically leave warlords behind if I get any before Vaults.

If you do get a particularly good and reliable follower, he should be getting a lot of boosts from Beogh. This means that, when he dies, you should loot his corpse before your followers can to see if there's anything you can use. The boosts always apply to the weapon and armour (with the exception of healing and priesthood), so if your warlord finally died, you'll probably have a nice set of platemail or better on him. If he drops a weapon you think is useful but you don't have skill in (say, orcish trident of vampirism) or can't use (orcish battleaxe of flaming but you need your awesome shield), keep it with you so you can give it to any converts you come across. If you identified the weapon/armour before wearing it, you can even see the boosts on it. I once gave a knight a Gold Dragon armour that I found at +1; when he died, it was +6, at which point I gave it to a sorcerer. I still wonder if they would have survived Zot, as that was one of my earliest games, in which I died in the Slime Pits.

If you have some nice armour, whether by finding it or looting dead followers, you can use a spare Enchant armour scroll to make Storm, Pearl, or Golden Dragon armour. Let the orcs wear it for resistances and to get Beogh boosts, then take it when they die if you want (Although I prefer sticking with Orcish Plate myself, or Scale if I'm trying a caster). Don't try the same with Troll Leather or the weaker Dragon Armours, as they're likely to get ignored by followers in favour of Plate.

As for body slots, I wear and fully enchant orcish gear if I can find it, unless I run into a randart with either A) more than a +3 bonus, or B) useful resistances and boosts. Sadly, orcish gloves, boots, cloaks, and helmets seem pretty rare (Unless you're playing a dwarf or elf, of course). I kind of cheated on the helmet bit by playing gladiator- One could theoretically do the same with cloaks for stalkers or assassins, too.

I'd like to say Axes are the only weapon you should think about, but two additional notes. If you're not going for heavy armour or melee builds (maybe you want to play a conjurer, blowgunner/javalineer, etc?), keep Polearms in mind, due to the somewhat common reaching brand. My other note is more of an anecdote- I was playing an EE with no weapon skill, and stumbled across an orcish dagger of speed. I had an amulet of rage, and between the two of those, I managed to take quite a few things (including Donald) down, raising Short Blades to 8 in no time. I still did pitiful damage without rage, and ended up dying while slowed to an Orc:2 Knight before finding Beogh. Why do I mention this, then? Because if I had gotten an army, enemies are often "distracted" if being attacked from multiple allies. And HO has a Stabbing aptitude of +2. Combine that with speed and Beogh bonus damage, and that really might have been a playable niche!

I haven't found smite very useful, except perhaps on retreating hydrae or death yaks. Recall is great for saving knights trying to fight a stone giant 1-on-1, and for walking right next to a moderate threat and then summoning the horde in a twisted version of the 'Haunt' spell. Water walking helped save me in Abyss a few times, and makes retreating easier sometimes, as well as being useful in Swamp and Shoals. Reinforcements are usually worthless, but again they might help you in Abyss or any other portal that isolates you from your squad.

As for spells? Debuffs like Corona or Ensorcelled Hibernation are useful if they aren't resisted, since everyone who attacks the debuffed opponent gets a boost. Vorpalise along with Fire Brand or Freezing Aura can enchant your war axe if it doesn't have a brand (Just don't use poison weapon, or really any poison- The last thing you want is that sorcerer to surrender to you and then die of poison damage). Rage is great, as the squad can cover for your slowness sometimes. Haste is awesome if you can cast it, especially if you have a few warlords. Avoid clouds- I'm not sure if this was changed for 0.8, but in my experience, if you make a poison or confusion cloud using evaporate and an orc walks into it and gets damaged, he'll no longer be friendly (I know this directly conflicts with the information above. Was it changed?). I have no experience with polymorphing my orcs. Low level spells are generally better, since using high level ones requires you to not use heavy armour, which is one of Beogh's selling points. Summons and necromancy are mostly redundant. Translocation can help with Portal Projectile for throwers, although blinking isn't as useful (unless semi-controlled).

I don't usually pick up other gods before Beogh. But on my most recent game, getting Xom helped, as his wrath isn't that bad (until he banishes me... still waiting) and he gave my Gl plenty of +AC mutations, some of which he didn't even remove (yet). I'm guessing Sif might be good for a caster, or maybe Elyvilon for a melee orc. Wrath is pretty tough, though, so I'd advise against it if you really really want to live. Speaking of which, don't leave Beogh if you want to live. Even if your squad becomes dead/outclassed, there's still weapon/armour bonuses and reinforcement meatshields. It's better than the multiple squads led by warlords you'll have to deal with as early as xl10!

Okay, wow. That basically turned into a Beogh guide. My summary- Your minions aren't simple summons, and you shouldn't limit yourself to what they can do, but instead work with them. Don't worry about them stealing exp- you'll get plenty anyway. And, um. DROWN THE UNBELIEVERS IN A SEA OF BLOOD!

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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 04:59

Re: Late Game Beogh

speaking of orc leveling, how does monster leveling work? you can get orc warlords from orcs iiuc but if you poly an orc to a green rat i doubt you can get a storm dragon from it, huh
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Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 03:22

Re: Late Game Beogh

I'm not certain, but I think orcs are special-cased to promote. Any monster can level up ("Your orc dies! The gnoll looks more experienced."), which I believe increases their hp and hit die, but I don't think other monsters promote like that- I had a merfolk follower who leveled up several times and still didn't hit impaler status. Also, even if promoting did happen, a green rat wouldn't promote to a steam dragon, that's just absurd. Of course, anyone who wants to mess around in wiz mode may confirm or deny any of this.

Speaking of polymorphing- Played a rather successful round where I abandoned Xom for Beogh. In revenge, Xom poly'd several of my orcs. I got 2 humans, a merfolk, a swamp drake, and a shapeshifter. None were particularly useful except the merfolk who helped a bit in Shoals, though he almost died to poison several times. The shapeshifter transformed into a rat and charged a spiny worm. :/ All in all, orcs are better off being orcs imho.

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 10:46

Re: Late Game Beogh

Zuboki wrote:I'm not certain, but I think orcs are special-cased to promote. Any monster can level up ("Your orc dies! The gnoll looks more experienced."), which I believe increases their hp and hit die, but I don't think other monsters promote like that- I had a merfolk follower who leveled up several times and still didn't hit impaler status. Also, even if promoting did happen, a green rat wouldn't promote to a steam dragon, that's just absurd. Of course, anyone who wants to mess around in wiz mode may confirm or deny any of this.

Speaking of polymorphing- Played a rather successful round where I abandoned Xom for Beogh. In revenge, Xom poly'd several of my orcs. I got 2 humans, a merfolk, a swamp drake, and a shapeshifter. None were particularly useful except the merfolk who helped a bit in Shoals, though he almost died to poison several times. The shapeshifter transformed into a rat and charged a spiny worm. :/ All in all, orcs are better off being orcs imho.


This mostly matches my experience... Until my last HOPr game where I got multi-headed hydras and a storm dragon. :twisted:
Warlords vs neqoxecs is a fun matchup on so many levels. :mrgreen:
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Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 15:26

Re: Late Game Beogh

dassem wrote: multi-headed hydras

Awesome. Run them back and forth over blade traps!

Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 22:40

Re: Late Game Beogh

Zuboki wrote:
dassem wrote: multi-headed hydras

Awesome. Run them back and forth over blade traps!


Aw, crap! Does this work? :idea:
I obtained one hydra quite early and got it to 6-heads using monsters with swords or axes. My problem was to find suitable blade-wielders that would last long enough to get a hit in, without posing too much danger for me. :-)
Then I lost it to a titanic slime creature, due to forgetting that I could only recall orcish followers. :(

The next was sufficiently late game that I wasn't as excited. If I understood it correctly, the second one was an orc that got banished and found me again in the Abyss, only a little altered by his experiences...
If my interpretation was correct, that seemed like a wonderful touch.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 23:21

Re: Late Game Beogh

dassem wrote:
Zuboki wrote:
dassem wrote: multi-headed hydras

Awesome. Run them back and forth over blade traps!


Aw, crap! Does this work? :idea:

No.
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Post Monday, 4th July 2011, 11:12

Re: Late Game Beogh

Zuboki wrote:Okay, wow. That basically turned into a Beogh guide. My summary- Your minions aren't simple summons, and you shouldn't limit yourself to what they can do, but instead work with them. Don't worry about them stealing exp- you'll get plenty anyway. And, um. DROWN THE UNBELIEVERS IN A SEA OF BLOOD!


Nice guide!

I ascended with a slightly different plan: I picked HOPr, because I'm worried I won't get an altar until Orc:3 or 4, which means wasting Orcs. So I skip Mines and do Lair etc. There are enough orc mobs around. Whenever an orc gets to warlord/high priest/sorcerer/ I store him somewhere in Lair, and continue with the lower ranked one. The higher ranking ones tend to hog XP and are too valuable to risk.

After I do the 2 non-Slime Lair branches, vault, dungeon I do Orc and convert/kill everyone. I get some of the followers from there and rampage Elf. This is followed by abyss, slime (both alone) and finishing Zot:1-4, 5's entry with some followers. I then get the stored A-Team (warlords etc.) from Lair and everyorc remaining and attack the chamber with the entire army.

I found it to be fun, but extremely labourious. Getting orcs to pick up stuff can only be done semi-reliably (with armour) or not reliably at all (weapons).

Some extra notes:
A) Use-ID is dangerous, as hurting your orcs will make them permanently hostile and often triggers Beogh penance. Notable threats are scrolls of immolation and (rare) torment, decks of war (contain Venom), and potions of confusion. Caution is also required to manage Air miscasts (which create clouds) and with scrolls of vorpalize weapon (which can do immolation/freezing effect depending on brand).

B) Berserk is usually a bad idea, since it's not possible to chug healing potion if confused. Lost a char to being very stupid with this.

C) Beware narrow corridors where an enemy in front has bolt of fire/draining/etc. The orcs will cluster behind and die helplessly. Teleporting out and recall to save them is sometimes advised. Alternatively, recall may put some orcs behind the enemy.

D) Acquiring wands is very useful. Wands of healing are especially great. Note that Wands of teleport trigger MR check, so one is unlikely to manage to teleport a promoted orc with it.

E) Given very recent magic skill gain nerf, not sure support magic is right path anymore. I don't think I used it very much...

F) Everything in Shoals *will* mesmerize. Pack an MR ring to be safe.

G) orcs will throw explosive darts and fire penetrating bolts even if it harms nearby/on the other side/ orcs.
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Post Monday, 4th July 2011, 20:06

Re: Late Game Beogh

I've always reckoned you should be able to apply your resistances to your followers as a Beorgh Messiah. That would stop them being turned to paste in later levels. Besides, I see it very much as a 'contagious' faith in a real and metaphorical sense.
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Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 17:01

Re: Late Game Beogh

As Eharper says, I think Beogh could do with a buff for getting full piety. Waterwalking is pretty rubbish as a final ability, and although interesting flavour, doesn't really make sense as a final ability.
(Perhaps even if it was just a + in fire and ice, it'd make them just slightly stronger?)

To be honest though, I think it just needs generally balancing. As mentioned before, you always come out hopelessly underpowered if your army dies, or if you don't rely on your army, you're pretty much better off with another God.
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Post Monday, 18th July 2011, 14:50

Re: Late Game Beogh

If you were to follow the comparison with Jesus through, why not have the final ability for the Beoghite follower be the ability to upgrade followers, à la the twelve apostles? Random, powerful upgrades and maybe even titles. Maybe have the final ability be just some halo of orcy awesomeness that increases resistances, I don't know. Both? Resurrection after death in a tomb?
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 18th July 2011, 18:49

Re: Late Game Beogh

I kind of like the challenge of keeping (some of) them alive. I do like the ability to designate certain orcs as your "top followers" and give them titles and powers- A good limit would be capping it at twice your piety in stars, so max 12. The only thing is- you already can do that, by hoarding artefacts and good armours and deciding which orc gets them. As such, I don't see it adding to much to the playstyle.

My preferred way would be for orcish recruitment to rely more on orcish gear, so that even with max piety, you're less likely to convert unless you're decked out in orcish gear. For this to be a viable change, though, there would need to be a way to reliably get orcish gear; perhaps Beogh could give equipment gifts? Then the good gifts, like ego boots or vampiric orcish war axes, could go to the player, while the platemail or battleaxe that you can't use could be given to your followers. Which would basically "upgrade" them in the same manner that some designation would increase their power/resistances.
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Post Tuesday, 19th July 2011, 14:36

Re: Late Game Beogh

Bim wrote:As Eharper says, I think Beogh could do with a buff for getting full piety. Waterwalking is pretty rubbish as a final ability, and although interesting flavour, doesn't really make sense as a final ability.
(Perhaps even if it was just a + in fire and ice, it'd make them just slightly stronger?)

To be honest though, I think it just needs generally balancing. As mentioned before, you always come out hopelessly underpowered if your army dies, or if you don't rely on your army, you're pretty much better off with another God.

Then the final power should be something like "call the horde" which whould summon orcs based on some combination of piety and the number of current followers from the orcs who would naturally spawn on your current level.
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Post Monday, 8th August 2011, 16:11

Re: Late Game Beogh

The only thing is- you already can do that, by hoarding artefacts and good armours and deciding which orc gets them. As such, I don't see it adding to much to the playstyle.


How do you decide which orc gets a certain piece of armor. I thought you could just drop it and hope that the right guy picks it up ?
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 8th August 2011, 21:16

Re: Late Game Beogh

A quick way, that usually works about 90% of the time, is to get out in the open, stand next to the orc you wish to equip, drop the armour/weapon, and swap places with the orc. Rarely a stronger orc will push through and steal the equipment, but typically this works pretty well. It's why my current-game Saint Roka has a heavily-enchanted broad axe, a large shield, and a +3 Crystal Plate Mail right now. ^^

By the way- anyone have any luck recruiting Nergalle? It used to be tough for me before, with her demon-summons, but her spectral orcs are even spammier, and they always kill her right after I recruit her! I want all that dangerous spam on my side...

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2011, 01:28

Re: Late Game Beogh

Agree that water-walking is 'cute' but makes little sense for a playstyle based around non-aquatic allies!
'Call the horde' style abilities are just replicating Trog
Definitely like the idea of buffing your 'apostles'. Perhaps the final ability could be a high piety 'bless' that upgrades (knight > warlord etc.) or confers resistances/damage increases/other boosts on your chosen favourites. Would also move Beogh further away from hundreds of popcorn allies to a few dedicated followers of higher power.

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Post Wednesday, 12th October 2011, 06:40

Re: Late Game Beogh

Zuboki wrote:By the way- anyone have any luck recruiting Nergalle? It used to be tough for me before, with her demon-summons, but her spectral orcs are even spammier, and they always kill her right after I recruit her! I want all that dangerous spam on my side...


If you're lucky enough to convert her, just recall her right after the conversion to move her away from her minions. A common tactic I used once when tackling the Elf:5 castle was to fight, teleport away, then instantly recall my orcs and heal up.
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