CIP: Midgame advice request


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 14:19

CIP: Midgame advice request

So I seem to have the early game pretty well figured out, and I don't have too much problem reaching the Orc Mines and the Lair, barring random "you're dead" events or "I'm stupid" events. However, once I reach the point where I have a lot of different inventory and character options, I seem to struggle. I don't have a good feel for how far I can push my character, or which weaknesses I need to shore up. Since I've now lost a number of characters in the Lair, the Mines, or a branch off the Lair, I figure I'll ask for a bit of advice on my most recent character.

This is Sergeant, a Human sword-and-board heavy armor fighter who worships Okawaru. Until very recently I had to make do with just a regular old +1 falchion. Okawaru gave me a couple of nice upgrades, though. I really, really like the look of the vampiric demonblade, but the problem is that I've been very effective at swapping in my sling and my rod of ice for range, and the vampiric weapon kind of kills that strategy.

So, does anyone have any advice for what I should be doing right now? Am I ready to start tackling a few runes, should I explore more and build up strength, maybe get some more resistances? Is there something I'm missing that is sure to kill me? Also, what can I dump out of my inventory? It seems like I have so few inventory spaces left, I'm having a hard time picking what to carry and what to stash. I guess my question is, if you had this character, what would you do with him?


  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0 character file.

Sergeant the Hoplite (Human Fighter)               Turns: 22033, Time: 03:40:05

HP  72/82        AC 29     Str 26      XL: 12   Next: 93%
MP  17/17        EV 12     Int  9      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 763         SH 33     Dex 17      Spells:  0 memorised, 11 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : .    a - +4,+1 elf falchion (slice) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  U - +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig {rF++ rC-
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    C - +1 dwarf shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    p - +1 plumed helmet
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : +    X - +0 cloak of Grot {Str+1 Dex+5}
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    x - +0 pair of dwarf gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    r - +2 pair of dwarf boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: +    i - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    A - ring of protection from cold
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    E - ring of Oronips {cTele Acc+5}

@: heroism, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: fast metabolism 1, -10% hp, -10% mp, Str +1, Int +1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 18 of its levels.
You have visited 1 Labyrinth.

You have collected 747 gold pieces.
You have spent 4 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +4,+1 elven falchion of slicing (weapon) {god gift}
 b - a +3,+4 sling of frost
 c - a +2,+7 vampiric demon blade {god gift}
 e - a +1,+1 flail of protection
 V - a +0,+2 whip of venom
Missiles
 n - 77 +0 sling bullets
 F - 9 +0 javelins (quivered)
 Y - 12 +1 sling bullets
Armour
 p - a +1 plumed helmet (worn)
 r - a +2 pair of dwarven boots (worn)
 x - a +0 pair of dwarven gauntlets (worn)
 C - a +1 dwarven shield (worn)
 J - a steaming robe
 U - the +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig (worn) {rF++ rC- Str+2 Acc+2}
 X - the +0 cloak of Grot (worn) {Str+1 Dex+5}
Magical devices
 j - a wand of digging {zapped: 3}
 l - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 t - a wand of fire {zapped: 7}
 v - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 5}
 D - a wand of digging
 H - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 2}
 L - a wand of frost {zapped: 1}
 N - a wand of polymorph other {zapped: 2}
 S - a wand of flame {zapped: 7}
Comestibles
 d - 4 bread rations
 Q - 4 meat rations
Scrolls
 m - a scroll of fear
 s - a scroll of magic mapping
 B - 2 scrolls of fog
 I - 8 scrolls of teleportation
 O - a scroll of immolation
 P - a scroll of blinking
Jewellery
 f - the brooch of Shielding {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
 h - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
 k - a twisted zirconium amulet
 y - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 z - a +4 ring of protection
 A - a ring of protection from cold (right hand)
 E - the ring of Oronips (left hand) {cTele Acc+5}
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 R - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 T - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
Potions
 g - 4 potions of curing
 o - 3 potions of levitation
 W - a potion of invisibility
Books
 K - a book of the Tempests   
Magical staves
 q - a staff of cold
 u - a twisted jewelled staff
 w - a +3 rod of destruction [ice] (9/9)
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 Z - a long runed staff
Miscellaneous
 M - an ornate deck of cards


   Skills:
 + Level 8.7(13.7) Fighting
 + Level 9.6(14.6) Long Blades
 + Level 2.0(7.0) Maces & Flails
 + Level 7.4(12.4) Slings
 + Level 5.0(10.0) Throwing
 * Level 9.8(14.8) Armour
 - Level 2.0(7.0) Dodging
 - Level 0.6(5.6) Stealth
 + Level 0.4(5.4) Stabbing
 + Level 10.8(15.8) Shields
 - Level 1.2(6.2) Traps & Doors
 + Level 5.2 Invocations
 + Level 4.4 Evocations


You have 11 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:11
   Lair (4/8) D:12          Swamp (1/5) Lair:2       Shoals (0/5) Lair:4

Shops:
D:10: %

Portals:
Frozen archway: Lair:4

Annotations
D:11 Erica, Joseph, Urug


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Your mind is acute (Int +1).
You have a fast metabolism.
You are frail (-10% HP).
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1500

Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 14:44

Re: Midgame advice

XL 12 is too early to try to get any runes. And anyhow they're useless until you need to go to Zot, so there's no rush on them.

You've only done half of Lair, finish the other half, then do Orc:1-3, then do D until you find the vaults. After that, for me it would be a toss-up of vaults:1-7 or swamp:1-4. Depending on how I felt in swamp at that time, I'd probably peep down to Swamp 5, read a magic mapping scroll and see which vault was created. I'd also finish up Orc and if I had sInv go do the first part of Elf since it's usually not that difficult.

For character advice - stop training Maces, throwing, stabbing, and evocations. I'd probably stop training slings too, unless you're really planning on using them as a main weapon and not just to plink incoming or fleeing monsters. I'd turn off fighting for a while too.

It's a shame your character has such low int. Unless your end-game goal is gold dragon armour, you're better off putting your level-up gains into int, so that you can cast some lower level spells like blink or swiftness.

For this message the author rebthor has received thanks:
schmoe
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:07

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Move-ed to appropriate subforum.

On Topic:

Sling v vampire blade- personally, I'd keep the sling. Having a good ranged attack is useful versatility, especially if you're not going to cast at all. Oka will provide something better for mele, eventually.

Drop the flail. You don't need it, and it won't work as a hydra killer. Drop the javelins, they're heavy and you have slinging. Stash some of your scrolls of tele (you only need 3 or so on your person at any given time). Ditch the book and staff, since you're not planning on casting. The deck might be worth using, but use an ID scroll to see what the top card is first.

Turn off throwing and slings before you Oka decides you want sling bullet and dart gifts! Generally, it's best to wait till you've gotten some nice equips before you let your god gifts get diluted by ammo. Turn off evocations for now, ^ is right, you don't have anything that needs it. Stabbing too, you're not a stealth character. I'd turn on traps and doors, you're going to want a few levels in that soon.

You have a lot of jewelry there. Resistance swapping much? You probably can ditch protection. MR probably too, unless you're religious about swapping to it when you meet enchantment casting monsters it's not doing you any good. Regeneration is good enough you might want to be wearing it now- although with that and fast metabolism you might run into food problems, so maybe swapping it on as needed is better. The ctele ring doesn't do much for you unless you're actually blinking/teleing. If you find a randart with the evoke blink property (which is quite possible with Oka gifts) it would be worth wearing for reusable semi-controlled blink. As is, I'd save it for swap (danger! Read scroll of tele, put on ring on ctele, wait for tele to kick in...) unless you know you're going into a dangerous situation you'd want to flee from.

For this message the author mageykun has received thanks:
schmoe

Slime Squisher

Posts: 375

Joined: Sunday, 15th January 2012, 16:59

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:16

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

I agree with minmay. Good branded demon blade + javelins is much better than bad falchion + slings.

Your skills are kind of a mess; I would turn off everything but long blades until the dblade hits min delay and go from there.

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schmoe

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 718

Joined: Monday, 14th February 2011, 05:35

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:17

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

I'm glad you're now starting to reach lair and orc more reliably. To keep improving, you have to start learning which items are good for your character and which monsters will pose problems for you. These are just things you're likely to pick up with experience, but I can also point you to this link for looking things up: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots.

Also, since you asked, I will spoil you about what your character should be using.
1) Wield c immediately. Your current weapon is barely good even for d:5, and a +7 vampiric demon blade is an endgame quality weapon.
2) Swap out i for f and E for T.
3) Turn off every skill except long blades until it is at 14. Then you can train armour, fighting, traps and doors (to 5-10), shields (to 15), and spell skills if you find good spells you would like to use.
4) Start raising int on levelups if you would like to cast; otherwise, raise dex. The highest evp armour in the game requires 27 str for a minimum penalty.
mikee_ has won 166 times in 396 games (41.92%): 4xDSFi 4xMDFi 3xDDCK 3xDDEE 3xHOPr 2xDDHe 2xDDNe 2xDSBe 2xKeAE 2xMfCr 2xMfSt 2xMiAr 2xMiBe 2xNaTm 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCePa 1xCeTm 1xCeWz 1xDDAs 1xDDCr 1xDDHu 1xDDTm 1xDENe 1xDEWz

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schmoe

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:44

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Wow, thanks for all the replies. It looks like two of my biggest strategic problems are that I'm not focusing my skills correctly, and I'm too eager to dive into acquiring runes. All of your suggestions definitely help me figure out a general course of action. I think I'll do as rebthor recommends and avoid the branch endings for a while.

Mageykun, that is exactly what I had planned with the amulet of teleport control. It so far hasn't come up, though, and I'm not sure it's worth the loss of an inventory slot just to control an emergency teleport. I'll probably want to be running away instead of swapping, anyway. You're definitely right that I don't need to be wearing it right now.

For the weapon, I had a hunch the demonblade was really damn good, but I don't have much experience with them, so I was still unsure. After reading some of the replies here, I think I'm going to commit to it for a while. I'll admit, losing access to the slings, card decks, and the rod of destruction will hurt. I killed a lot of things with my sling that were otherwise untouchable to me, like somewhere around 20+ electric eels and such, and the freezing cloud from the rod has been a lifesaver. I'll stash the sling and bullets, but keep the rod for emergencies. If I run into a place that I need it I guess I can always run back and pick up the sling.

The flail was my intended hydra killer. If I drop that and go with a vampiric blade, I need to hope I have enough javelins to finish the deal. I suppose my wands can fill in as needed, and I have two steel javelins in a stash that I'll need to pick up.

I have no interest in trying to turn this guy into a caster (hey, he's just a regular fighter guy!). It will be interesting to see how far I can make it.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:53

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Oh, and one more thing. Given my current gear layout (no good cold resistance with current armor), I'm thinking I should avoid the icy portal that is 5 steps away from me. Do you agree?
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1729

Joined: Wednesday, 19th October 2011, 21:25

Location: New England.

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 15:59

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

You have two rings of protection of cold which should suffice.
What made you happy today?
Shatari wrote:I traded a goat for a Nintendo DS XL, and a ton of games.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1500

Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 16:18

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Awaiting the died to an Ice Fiend in 3...2...1

Spider Stomper

Posts: 238

Joined: Wednesday, 29th February 2012, 04:18

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 21:13

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

schmoe wrote:Wow, thanks for all the replies. It looks like two of my biggest strategic problems are that I'm not focusing my skills correctly, and I'm too eager to dive into acquiring runes. All of your suggestions definitely help me figure out a general course of action. I think I'll do as rebthor recommends and avoid the branch endings for a while.

Mageykun, that is exactly what I had planned with the amulet of teleport control. It so far hasn't come up, though, and I'm not sure it's worth the loss of an inventory slot just to control an emergency teleport. I'll probably want to be running away instead of swapping, anyway. You're definitely right that I don't need to be wearing it right now.

For the weapon, I had a hunch the demonblade was really damn good, but I don't have much experience with them, so I was still unsure. After reading some of the replies here, I think I'm going to commit to it for a while. I'll admit, losing access to the slings, card decks, and the rod of destruction will hurt. I killed a lot of things with my sling that were otherwise untouchable to me, like somewhere around 20+ electric eels and such, and the freezing cloud from the rod has been a lifesaver. I'll stash the sling and bullets, but keep the rod for emergencies. If I run into a place that I need it I guess I can always run back and pick up the sling.

The flail was my intended hydra killer. If I drop that and go with a vampiric blade, I need to hope I have enough javelins to finish the deal. I suppose my wands can fill in as needed, and I have two steel javelins in a stash that I'll need to pick up.

I have no interest in trying to turn this guy into a caster (hey, he's just a regular fighter guy!). It will be interesting to see how far I can make it.



A few things:

The trident isn't considered a slashing weapon so it won't give the hydra extra heads and you can kill them just fine with it.

You don't "have" to give up your sling/decks/rods with the vampiric brand, it will just cost you a permafood each time, but I'll trade a permafood to avoid death 100% of the time, and you still have the javelins to deal with your ranged needs (and the reaching property of polearms helps too)

Just because you have a badass weapon doesn't make you invincible (evidence: my DDFi's death with a +6 glaive of speed, elec) so make sure to play it cautiously and don't hesitate to back away from anything you're unfamiliar with.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5375

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 16th March 2012, 23:41

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Just some general advice about playing melee characters:

You only need the following skills: Fighting, <insert weapon skill of your choice>, armor. People have won with that kind of extreme focus. I would however recommend also branching out a bit into traps and doors (around 10), invocations if your god uses it, and dodging. And of course shields if you are using shields, although you don't need that if you use two handed weapons. Dodging isn't great when you use heavy armor (which is more typical for melee characters unless they are small races) but it's still good to have some, even with heavy armor. Just focus on armor more.

Secondly, while human is fine, more physically focused races like minotaurs are faster to train their skills and usually offer some decent perks like a minotaur's headbutt. Something to consider for your next character(s).

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Saturday, 17th March 2012, 16:04

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Regarding the ice cave - the exit is usually near the entrance, so you can quite safely pop in for a look around and then run if it looks dangerous

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 14:21

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

This is just an update the progress of my unremarkable human fighter with a sword.

I decided to go with the vampiric demonblade. I switched off all skills other than long blades until I got up to a 12, then switched off longblades and turned on fighting, armor, and shields. I then added invocations, planning to get my Finesse activation up to a reliable failure rate.

I put on both rings of protection cold to get up to RC+, dropped all my potions, then went into the ice cave. I figured this would be a good test to see whether I chose wisely or not, and my sling of frost would have been worthless in there anyway. Overall everything went pretty smoothly. Even the room with three ice statues wasn't too tough, as the extra punch from the demonblade was able to bring each down in 6-10 blows. Afterward I continued exploring the Lair, fell into a shaft to Lair 8, and decided to clear it out. After being petrified in my first ever encounter with a catoblepas (I survived due to good armor), I figured out I could use a scroll of fog to block the petrifying breath and was able to clear out all of Lair 8. I since then have worked my way up to clear the rest of the Lair and cleared out Swamp 1-4. I left Mara on Swamp 4, since he looks to be a big badass from his description and I'm not quite ready to tackle him.

I have to say the combination of good armor, nice shield skill, and a strong vampiric weapon is a pretty badass combination. Not much can even hurt me in melee, and whatever damage I take is usually healed up in 1-2 swings. I've taken out multiple packs of death yaks, vampiric mosquitoes, that dwarf dude, the statue chick, you name it, all without much fuss. Except for the near mishap with the catoblepas, I haven't been below 80% health. There was a close call with Roxanne in the swamp, where she blinked me a couple times, almost into deep water. I put on my ring of MR and drank a potion of Levitation, but not until she had blinked me twice, so I think I got lucky there. I also forgot about my amulet of Control Teleport, so probably didn't need to use the potion, but, eh, alive is alive. The javelins have worked well on the hydras, too. My biggest problem has been electric eels, where I don't want to use my javelins because of the risk of losing them in deep water. I've been relying on random darts for eel duty, and avoiding them when possible.

Anyway, I have an updated char dump below. I'm not in the mood for the Shoals just yet (hate, hate, hate harpies and sirens) and I've never tried the Slime Pits before but don't want to try them until I can get RAcid+, so I'm probably going to head to the Orc Mines, give it a shot of clearing out the very bottom, then dive a little further into the main dungeon. I'll probably clear D11 on the way up, since I think by now I should be able to take Erica, Joseph, Urug, and a few skeleton warriors with some judicious divide-and-conquer.

I have a huge stash of books (Burglary, Enchantments, Envenomations, Power, Transfigurations, the Dragon, the Earth, the Tempests), but I'm holding fast to my no-caster stance on this guy unless it becomes obvious that I can support some spellcasting without a huge investment. I forget why I'm building up Evocations - maybe because I found a Lamp of Fire and want to see if I can get it to work. The description says fire magic improves the chances, but it seems to me like fire magic might be a requirement. I also have a couple of unidentified artifact weapons in my stash, so I need to get some scrolls to ID them (I don't want to unequip the vampiric blade just to ID them).

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0 character file.

Sergeant the Hoplite (Human Fighter)               Turns: 33418, Time: 06:11:53

HP 115/115       AC 36     Str 27      XL: 16   Next: 53%
MP  24/24        EV 12     Int  9      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 1597        SH 32     Dex 18      Spells:  0 memorised, 15 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : .    c - +5,+7 demon blade (vamp) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : x . .   Warding    : + .  U - +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig {rF++ rC-
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .    S - +1 dwarf shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    p - +1 plumed helmet
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .    X - +0 cloak of Grot {Str+1 Dex+5}
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    x - +0 pair of dwarf gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    r - +2 pair of dwarf boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    f - brooch of Shielding {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    z - +4 ring of protection
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    y - ring of poison resistance

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: fast metabolism 1, -10% hp, -10% mp, Str +1, Int +1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels.
You have visited 1 Labyrinth.
You have visited 1 portal chamber: ice cave.

You have collected 1581 gold pieces.
You have spent 4 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - a +5,+7 vampiric demon blade (weapon) {god gift}
 g - a glowing spiked flail {god gift}
 s - a dwarven war axe of freezing
 C - the +2,+6 hammer of Impeachment {slay orc, +Lev rElec}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)   
 Z - a cursed slimy crossbow {god gift}
Missiles
 a - 2 steel +0 javelins
 i - 13 darts of dispersal
 F - 6 +0 javelins
 W - a +0 dart (quivered)
Armour
 p - a +1 plumed helmet (worn)
 r - a +2 pair of dwarven boots (worn)
 x - a +0 pair of dwarven gauntlets (worn)
 O - a runed dwarven splint mail
 S - a +1 dwarven shield (worn)
 U - the +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig (worn) {rF++ rC- Str+2 Acc+2}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
 V - the +1 robe of the Forest {rElec rN+ Str+4}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
 X - the cursed +0 cloak of Grot (worn) {Str+1 Dex+5}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
Magical devices
 b - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 4}
 e - a wand of fire
 j - a wand of digging {zapped: 3}
 k - a wand of confusion
 l - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 t - a wand of fire {zapped: 7}
 H - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 2}
 L - a wand of frost {zapped: 2}
 N - a wand of polymorph other {zapped: 2}
Comestibles
 d - 4 bread rations
 w - an apple
 Q - 5 meat rations
Scrolls
 q - a scroll of fear
 B - 2 scrolls of fog
 D - 2 scrolls of immolation
 I - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 M - a scroll of amnesia
 P - a scroll of blinking
 Y - 3 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 f - the brooch of Shielding (around neck) {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
 h - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 y - a ring of poison resistance (left hand)
 z - a +4 ring of protection (right hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 E - the ring of Oronips {cTele Acc+5}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 J - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 R - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 T - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
Potions
 m - 2 potions of speed
 n - 9 potions of curing
 o - a potion of levitation
 u - 2 potions of restore abilities
 K - a potion of might
Miscellaneous
 v - a plain deck of cards


   Skills:
 + Level 13.6 Fighting
 - Level 12.4 Long Blades
 + Level 2.0 Maces & Flails
 + Level 7.4 Slings
 - Level 5.0 Throwing
 * Level 12.8 Armour
 - Level 2.0 Dodging
 - Level 0.6 Stealth
 - Level 0.4 Stabbing
 + Level 14.8 Shields
 - Level 6.0 Traps & Doors
 - Level 9.0 Invocations
 * Level 6.5 Evocations


You have 15 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:11
   Lair (8/8) D:12          Swamp (4/5) Lair:2       Shoals (0/5) Lair:4
  Slime (1/6) Lair:7     

Altars:

Shops:
D:10: %

Annotations
D:11 Erica, Joseph, Urug
Lair:7 !Azure Jelly on Slime 1
Swamp:4 Mara


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Your mind is acute (Int +1).
You have a fast metabolism.
You are frail (-10% HP).
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 14:30

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

tasonir wrote:Just some general advice about playing melee characters:

You only need the following skills: Fighting, <insert weapon skill of your choice>, armor. People have won with that kind of extreme focus. I would however recommend also branching out a bit into traps and doors (around 10), invocations if your god uses it, and dodging. And of course shields if you are using shields, although you don't need that if you use two handed weapons. Dodging isn't great when you use heavy armor (which is more typical for melee characters unless they are small races) but it's still good to have some, even with heavy armor. Just focus on armor more.

Secondly, while human is fine, more physically focused races like minotaurs are faster to train their skills and usually offer some decent perks like a minotaur's headbutt. Something to consider for your next character(s).


Thanks, I'll try to build up some more dodging. I can definitely see how that would be useful, considering most of the damage I take is from energy bolts and such.

I know what you're saying about minotaurs. This character was just something I started as a break from trying to make a "strong" combination character. He was deliberately chosen as an average, unremarkable character, just to see how it would work out. So far it's been fun. :D

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 14:48

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

minmay wrote:You can't be blinked into deep water or lava unless you can swim in it.


Hmm, good to know. I got nervous when she was blinking me around right next to the deep water pools. :shock:
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 14:52

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

I respectfully bow to everyone else's wisdom in choosing the vampiric demon blade. I'm sometimes an idiot about these things. :P

The lamp of fire is basically summon fire elemental. You don't need fire magic to make it work, per se. Evocation alone will train up the success rate, fire just makes the elemental friendly (and gives you ways to generate flame clouds to make them out of). Basically, I didn't find it worth using on a fire elementalist. I don't think you have much reason to build up evocations, actually. Wands don't need it, none of the summon elemental items are really worth your time, you're not a nemelex-ite, and you can't use rods with your vampiric blade.

For this message the author mageykun has received thanks:
schmoe

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 16:46

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Good call on the evocations.

For another update, although I've been kicking but with the vampiric demonblade, Okawaru seems determined to give me difficult choices. Now I have this:

  Code:
 s - the +11,+3 double sword of Hedonism (weapon) {god gift, slice, rPois rC+}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.


So between that and the +5,+7 vampiric demon blade, I have a tough decision to make. I'm not complaining, though! I think I'm going to work with the double sword for a while and see how I like it. It already feels like it does a good bit more damage, but I haven't been in a battle yet where I really want the healing. The resistances are nice, so I don't run around with cold vulnerability.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 19th March 2012, 16:55

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

That isn't a difficult choice. The vampiric demon blade is way, way better - more +dam enchantment, better base type, much better brand.
You might want to swap to that against frost giants and ice dragons. That's about it though.
Seriously, you don't even need to consider any other weapon. That's the best this character is ever going to get, barring really exceptional randarts. :)

If you're running with rC-, be warned that ancient liches, liches, Boris and Frederick deal hellish damage with bolts of cold. It really isn't that much of a problem otherwise though. Just remember that you are constantly endangered if you aren't attentive.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Wednesday, 21st March 2012, 16:46

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

I just wanted to provide an update. My generic human fighter is still going strong. His combination of good weapon with built-in healing + solid defense is proving to be a tough nut to crack. I cleared out Elf (including Elf:5) using a judicious combination of scrolls of fog, stair-dancing, and luring annihilators around corners. I had to use a few consumables, but hey, that's what they are there for. I explored down to D:19 or so, where I found the Vaults for the first time ever. I explored down to Vault:6, found the Hall of Blades and cleared that out, which was rather anti-climatic except for a nuisance encounter with a great mace of draining. By now I had found or been gifted several artifacts to give me evocable levitation and invisibility, so I trained up a bit of evocations skill. Invisibility is great when I run into packs of yaktaurs. I also have evocable Blink and a source of Control Teleport, so I'm keeping that around in case things get hairy.

After clearing the Hall of Blades I figured it was time to go finish off the swamp. Found out that the swamp was plagued with hordes of hydras and the Lernaean Hydra. Hmm. I decided to go back to my stash and use some different weapons for this. Picked up an artifact spear with Reaping, figuring hydra zombies might help, and a god gift spiked flail of piercing as a backup. Well, the more experienced here probably know what came next. I was able to make plenty of hydra zombies, but they did little more than make speedbumps and make Okawaru very pissed off. So I switched to the spiked flail and put a traditional beat-down on the Lernaean Hydra with Heroism, might, and speed, allowing me to pick up my second ever rune, and my first time getting the Decaying Rune.

At this point I figure I'll probably try to conquer shoals, then dive down and see what later levels of the Vaults, or maybe the Crypts (which I found) have in store for me. I should probably make amends with Okawaru first, though :D. I've never been this far in the game, so it's all new to me right now, which is fun. I'm a bit concerned about the Crypts, since vampirism doesn't work on the undead, so if I go that route I'll be ready to run when I get in over my head.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5375

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 21st March 2012, 17:50

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Really the vampiric not working on crypt is about the only problem you'll face. You need food since there's very few corpses, otherwise it's pretty easy. Vaults 1-7 should also be easy for you, but 8 is much more difficult.

Stay away from the Tomb, which is inside of the crypt, however; that is a much harder branch. Sometimes there can be some tomb type monsters generated near the stairs to it, which can be tough, but most of the time it is clear.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 238

Joined: Wednesday, 29th February 2012, 04:18

Post Thursday, 22nd March 2012, 08:29

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

I'm going to second the warning for Vault:8. There is a very (un-)friendly greeting party when you go down the stairs and you'll probably have to stair-dance a bit in order to manage them all. If you can, try to use a down-stair on Vault:7 that is adjacent to a wall of some sort (so you have to deal with less guys if you happen to be surrounded on Vault:8 when you go down and come back up)

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 41

Joined: Wednesday, 7th March 2012, 16:44

Post Thursday, 22nd March 2012, 13:44

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

Another day, another update.

I started out by tackling the Shoals. Killed a Kraken along the way and found a couple of weapon shops that were completely surrounded by water. I chose to avoid those since I am already pretty set, weapon-wise. On the bottom of the Shoals (first time ever here) the layout was a number of enclosures surrounded by shallow and deep water, with a single door opening into each one. I explored a bit and opened one of the enclosures, revealing some aquamancers and master javelin throwers. Explored some more and found one enclosure where the only access to the door was over deep water. Since I didn't feel like drinking a levitate potion or going back to my stash for my evocable levitation, I found a safe spot in a corner and zapped a wand of digging. Lo and behold the enclosure was full to the brim with aquamancers, master javelin throwers, and other bad dudes. I backed up a space out of LOS from a lot of them and went to work. In the end they weren't able to harm me too badly, and the javelin throwers left me with a nice stash of 21 returning +1 javelins! Perfect for my character. Oh, and the Barnacled Rune.

I decided not to try clearing out Shoals:5 and instead returned to my stash, hauling as much loot as my few inventory spaces would allow.

I returned to the Vaults and dove into the Crypts, hoping to clear it. The first level greeted me with Margery and a band of chaos knights, which took some tactical fighting to overcome. I finally lured Margery close enough to me that I could get into melee and beat her down, and things got easier after that. After not too much exploration I found the Tomb entrance, surrounded by mummies. I killed the mummies, eating a few death curses and some cursed equipment, and figured I'd peek my head in to the Tomb. I explored along the southern wall of an open area, killing a few more mummies along the way. As I started to head north from the SW corner, I saw a big purple L and "Boris comes into view". After examining him, I decided I wasn't much in the mood to tackle liches, much less a named ancient lich, so I retreated to the nearest stairs (after eating an Orb of Destruction to the face) and said goodby to the Tomb for now.

Back in the Crypt I continued down to the bottom. Even without my vampiric weapon working, most of the things had a very hard time penetrating my defenses. The only things that gave me pause were a couple of curse skulls on the way day (which I avoided), and an ancient lich and a curse skull on Crypt:5, both of which I killed looking for a rune. I scoured the level looking for a rune, only discover that there was none. Hmm. Oh well, at least there was tons of treasure and a whole bunch of artifacts. I picked a few nice ones and headed back to the Vaults.

In the Vaults I cleared down to Vault:7 and poked my head in to Vault:8. I have to say, for someone who has never been there before, the welcoming committee is very impressive. I did some stair-dancing to clear out the guards in manageable chunks, then returned to finish off the shadow dragon and some random giants that were still lingering. Once the stairs were pretty much clear, I decided to start by exploring to the northeast, where I had seen the shadow dragon emerge. It was a large pillared room with lots bad stuff - giants, titans, amorphous blobs, even a gold dragon. I bottle-necked the enemy and whittled them down, skinning the dragon and sacrificing the rest of the corpses to Okawaru, who by now was again very happy with me. As I got to the end of the pillared hall I saw the silver rune, so I snatched it and left, returning to my stash.

That's where things stand now. I've picked up a few resistances (notably rElec and SInvis), but still don't feel like I have all the bases covered. I also managed to find a nice upgrade for my +3 shield of reflection. Scrolls of Acquirement have been going in to armor and jewelry in the hopes of shoring up my defenses. My biggest problem now seems to be mutation. I'm picking up more mutations, and I've run out of potions to cure them. I have to wear the ring of Oronips because I have teleportitis, even though I'd rather be wearing something else. I think now I'm going to dive for Zot and see if I can get the orb, going for the victory.

Here's a character dump, for those who are interested. It looks like I'm training maces & flails, but I'm not because of the vampiric weapon:

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0 character file.

Sergeant the Slayer (Human Fighter)                Turns: 82296, Time: 14:56:47

HP 199/199 (201) AC 34     Str 27      XL: 26   Next: 71%
MP  32/32        EV 23     Int  9      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 4365        SH 50     Dex 21      Spells:  0 memorised, 25 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +    c - +7,+8 demon blade (vamp) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : + .  U - +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig {rF++ rC-
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .    C - +1 large shield {rflct}
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    a - +1 orc helmet {SInv}
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    X - +0 cloak of Grot {Str+1 Dex+5}
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .    x - +0 pair of dwarf gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : +    r - +2 pair of dwarf boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: +    f - brooch of Shielding {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    B - ring "Riaroa" {Ice rElec Dam+5}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    E - ring of Oronips {cTele Acc+5}

@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: -10% hp, -10% mp, teleportitis 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, barnacled, silver


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and seen 65 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have visited 1 Labyrinth.
You have visited 2 portal chambers: ice cave, wizlab.

You have collected 6427 gold pieces.
You have spent 2082 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - a +7,+8 vampiric demon blade (weapon) {god gift}
Missiles
 l - 7 +4 javelins of penetration
 p - 18 +1 javelins of returning
 t - 4 runed javelins {god gift}
 N - a javelin of penetration (quivered) {god gift}
 W - 2 steel +0 javelins
Armour
 a - a +1 orcish helmet of see invisible (worn)
 r - a +2 pair of dwarven boots (worn)
 x - a +0 pair of dwarven gauntlets (worn)
 C - a +1 large shield of reflection (worn)
 U - the +6 fire dragon armour of Atrupig (worn) {rF++ rC- Str+2 Acc+2}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
 X - the +0 cloak of Grot (worn) {Str+1 Dex+5}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
Magical devices
 e - a wand of lightning (9)
 j - a wand of digging {zapped: 4}
 k - a wand of cold (7)
 D - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 2}
 H - a wand of teleportation (1)
 L - a wand of frost (10)
 M - a wand of magic darts (8)
 P - a wand of fire {zapped: 5}
 Q - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 2}
 Y - a wand of disintegration (3)
Comestibles
 b - 4 meat rations
 d - 7 bread rations
 g - 3 honeycombs
Scrolls
 q - 2 scrolls of fear
 u - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 G - a scroll of blinking
 I - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 R - a scroll of fog
Jewellery
 f - the brooch of Shielding (around neck) {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
   (You found it in a Labyrinth)   
 h - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 i - an uncursed ring of levitation
 m - an uncursed ring of life protection
 v - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 y - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 z - a +4 ring of protection
 A - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 B - the ring "Riaroa" (right hand) {Ice rElec Dam+5}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)   
 E - the ring of Oronips (left hand) {cTele Acc+5}
 J - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 K - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 S - the amulet "Niwiwila" {cFly +Inv}
 T - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
Potions
 n - 10 potions of curing
 o - 2 potions of levitation
 s - a potion of might
 F - a potion of berserk rage
 V - a potion of heal wounds


   Skills:
 - Level 21.0 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Long Blades
 * Level 2.3 Maces & Flails
 - Level 1.1 Polearms
 - Level 7.4 Slings
 - Level 11.0 Throwing
 * Level 17.0 Armour
 - Level 13.0 Dodging
 - Level 0.6 Stealth
 - Level 0.4 Stabbing
 - Level 20.0 Shields
 - Level 12.0 Traps & Doors
 - Level 11.0 Invocations
 - Level 8.0 Evocations


You have 25 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (21/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (5/5) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:12          Swamp (5/5) Lair:2
 Shoals (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (1/6) Lair:7        Vault (8/8) D:19
  Blade (1/1) Vault:5       Crypt (5/5) Vault:2        Tomb (1/3) Crypt:2

Altars:

Shops:
D:10: %  D:15: *[?(+  D:19: =  D:20: (  Orc:3: %  Orc:4: !*+%  Shoals:3: **((
Vault:2: =  Vault:4: (

Annotations
Lair:7 !Azure Jelly on Slime 1
Swamp:4 Mara
Crypt:3 exclusion: curse skull
Crypt:5 exclusion: curse skull
Tomb:1 Boris


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are frail (-10% HP).
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
Space occasionally distorts in your vicinity.

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Thursday, 22nd March 2012, 14:23

Re: CIP: Midgame advice request

There's quite a fair bit of loot on V:8 aside from the rune, so it might be worth the trouble to clear that level.. your resistances could do with some upgrade

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