CIP SpVM 11


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 21

Joined: Sunday, 12th June 2011, 20:24

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 10:25

CIP SpVM 11

Hi, I usually player fighters but after my last one died in Elven Halls despite having MR+++ I decided to try playing a mage because I heard they were easier. Since my characters usually never cast spells and I barely even know how spellcasting works I expected my first Venom Mage to die quickly... and that's exactly what happened. My second Venom Mage however has gotten farther than I imagined and I believe has gotten EXTREMELY lucky with items. He is currently clearing our Lair 4 and has reached D8 in the main dungeon.



TOMES:
book of Power
book of Wizardry
book of Debilitation
book of Annihilations
book of Stalking
book of Summoning

Notable items:
book of Annihilations
staff of Power
staff of Channeling

I found the book of Annihilations in the Lair (wow) and the staff of Power in the labyrinth which is the last thing I've done so for. The only problem right now is that I have zero food (yikes) but hopefully I'll find some soon. It seems like the staff of Power is more useful than the staff of channeling, is that right?

I would like advice on anything at all since I'm new to the whole spellcasting game. However specifically I'd like to know what skills I should train and what spells I should memorize. Thanks in advance!
Last edited by lazylink on Monday, 19th March 2012, 02:05, edited 1 time in total.

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 13:11

Re: CIP SpVM 11

some random tips:
- carry only important items with you, and only small quantities. Spriggans have very low strength.
- having a negative resist (in this case rC-) is not a good idea. you have no fire spells that would benefit from your ring of fire. take it off.
- as a Spriggan, you cannot eat corpses or other meat, this means food is very limited. The hunger costs of your spells are very high. Focus on spellcasting, and stop training stealth and dodging until you can cast them hungerless.
- the staff of channeling also costs nutrition to use, i would use it only in emergency situations on a spriggan
- if you cast spells you should put all stat raises into intelligence. this also lowers the nutrition cost of spells.
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 13:59

Re: CIP SpVM 11

You have a Book of Power - memorize the Poisonous Cloud spell from it. You're still in a stage of the game where it's extremely effective.

That said, you can stop training Poison Magic. 10 levels is more than enough, and right now you need your XP going to more important skills (like Spellcasting, as slowcar said). Try to learn a spell from the Charms school, so you can build up that skill as well and someday be able to cast Haste (from your Book of Wizardry).

Also as slowcar said, food is a serious issue for you. To help deal with that, you might learn some of your summoning spells. Summoning is an extremely useful pasttime for Spriggans, because their fragile characters need all the meatshields they can get, and they're also really good at stabbing distracted enemies (use a dagger). Having some summons to do your fighting is also easier on your food supply than casting those honeycomb-level attack spells repeatedly.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 14:36

Re: CIP SpVM 11

You may want to put two or three points into Strength as well. The lower you delve in the dungeon, the more you'll start to encounter things than can drain your stats. Keeping the ring of sustain abilities on will mitigate that risk, and I agree with slowcar that you should not keep the ring of fire on.

Beyond that, the advice above is good. I would turn off all skills except Spellcasting at least until Iskenderun's is hungerless, then turn on Conjurations for a while.

In terms of your future path, I'd recommend exploring Lair down to 7. If you feel like you're handling everything easily, try Lair:8. If that starts to get overwhelming, leave and explore the main dungeon for a while. Don't feel the need to enter the Orcish Mines as soon as you encounter the entrance. While almost everything in there is vulnerable to poison, it's easy to get mobbed. Sometimes you'll face packs of orcs all having ranged attacks, which can be overwhelming to a squishy race like spriggans.

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 13:38

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 17:00

Re: CIP SpVM 11

- I would not turn off Poison Magic and Conjuration off yet. 9% failure is still not good enough. Once you get it to, say, 2-3%, you're probably fine.
- Poisonous Cloud, when used correctly, can be useful in mid to late game as well. Elven Halls, yaktaur packs, draconian packs, all of them fall like flies. Definitely worth taking.
- Even Lair:8 is probably fine for you. Most of the things are not rPois there, and those that are would then easily succumb to a few IMBs. Just don't get yourself overwhelmed.
- Swamp and Shoals would probably be the next step, except for the final levels. Make sure you have rPois or Clarity for Swamp (it's easy to drown because of swamp drakes' mephs) and at least RMsl for Shoals. Keep the final levels for later.
- Grab some Charms and Air for Haste and Deflect Missiles, Summoning for Abjuration and Necromancy for Dispel Undead. All of those are very useful for any character, for SpVM IMHO even doubly so.
- Get more resistances. You may find some nice loot at the bottom of Elf, but you should probably defer that until you get some good MR and ways to deal with summons.
- Generally just play it tight and run from anything you can't handle.

Good luck!
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 17:36

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Baby steps. He's only on Lair:4. Very little in Lair merits casting Poison Arrow at Honeycomb with a spriggan. With a +3 spellcasting apptitude, he'll very quickly drop his hunger costs if he focuses just on that for a few floors. That plus any Int increases he accrues will also help drop his failure chance for PA. After that, raising conjurations will help not only PA, but also poisonous cloud and improve the damage on IMB. Once Conj and Poison are equal, continuing to raise Conj will help with a wide variety of spells, whereas once he has Poison Arrow down to 2-3%, he'll have mastered the highest level spell in the poison magic school, and further increases to that skill will offer very diminished returns.

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 13:38

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 17:59

Re: CIP SpVM 11

BlackSheep wrote:Baby steps. He's only on Lair:4. Very little in Lair merits casting Poison Arrow at Honeycomb with a spriggan. With a +3 spellcasting apptitude, he'll very quickly drop his hunger costs if he focuses just on that for a few floors. That plus any Int increases he accrues will also help drop his failure chance for PA. After that, raising conjurations will help not only PA, but also poisonous cloud and improve the damage on IMB. Once Conj and Poison are equal, continuing to raise Conj will help with a wide variety of spells, whereas once he has Poison Arrow down to 2-3%, he'll have mastered the highest level spell in the poison magic school, and further increases to that skill will offer very diminished returns.

You certainly have a point there.
But - depends on playstyle. Sometimes, you want to get rid of an enemy (hydrae are fairly safe with IMB, some uniques are not) as quick as possible and from a greater range - and that is time for PA to be realiable. The aptitudes in Poison and Conj _do_ make a difference here, while Spc and Int boost are (in my experience) way lower. Further increase in Poison is then next to worthless, true - but at times, Poison Arrow can be a lifesaver even this early. So I personally would still not turn Poison off.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 21

Joined: Sunday, 12th June 2011, 20:24

Post Friday, 24th February 2012, 22:32

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Thanks for the great replies, I really appreciate all the help I can get! My little spriggan has cleared out the whole Lair, and the closest call was a komodo dragon that reduced me to 20 hp all by itself, forcing me to use a scroll of blinking. Lair 8 was easy, there were several pack of death yaks that were easily dispatched by poisonous cloud and venom bolts, also hydras, but those bear no threat at all if I use venom bolts. There were also those monsters that have calcifying breath (kind of like Gorgons, they are big bulls), Poison Arrow destroyed them easily.

As for items, my luck hasn't run out yet. I found a hive of bees on Lair 4 that I got 27 honeycombs from so my food problems are gone. Other notable items I found are:

+3 hat of Pondering (ponderous, MR MP+10 Int+5)
the ring of Shor (-CAST +Inv Acc+3 Dam+4 Stlth++)
staff of wizardry
air elemental fan
staff of air
wand of digging



I could use advice on anything at all, but specifically I'd like to know what skills to train, spells to memorize and also what items to wear. Here are some of my stats:

I can memorize orb of Destruction with a 4% chance of failure.
Should I use the hat of Pondering? If I equip it and +4 ring of intelligence the hunger cost of Poison Arrow is strawberry.
Should I use the ring of Shor? I not sure what -CAST does, because it doesn't seem to effect my spell effectiveness.

Thanks again for all the help you all have given to far, definitely saved my butt!
Last edited by lazylink on Friday, 13th September 2013, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 02:22

Re: CIP SpVM 11

I suggest getting your Strength up another point or two. Strength 4 can be dangerous if you're hit with stat drain. You can be too overloaded to flee.
Your skills list look a little short at this stage of the game.
You have no Traps&Doors at all. Pls find some traps and try disarming them. You need about 8~12 T&D by the time you hit Zot.
You have more than enough Poison Magic - turn it off.
Orb of Destruction is situationally useful. Its targeting is inaccurate and is not useful in corridors. But good if you can spare the spell slot.
Pick up some utility spells if you find them - Repel Missiles / Flight / Regeneration / Haste / etc..

The hat will bring you down to normal movement speed. Not that bad I suppose.
-CAST ring is a no-no for spellcaster.

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 09:00

Re: CIP SpVM 11

hxy, you don't have to disarm traps to level t&d anymore, you can just train the skill.
i played several spriggans with str 4 to the extended endgame, i don't think raising a stat only to avoid death by statdrain is worth it, at least not if you carry means of curing it.
i would wear the hat only if you had swiftness or other means of getting faster again. speed is the main boon of a spriggan, trading it away so cheap is not worth it. i think you are still faster than the average with it though.
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 21

Joined: Sunday, 12th June 2011, 20:24

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 11:24

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Well it's official, this is by far my best character yet. I have cleared out the main dungeon, Swamp, Shoals, Elven Halls and Vault down to 7. I've never beaten the game before, so I was thinking of doing a 3 rune run unless you suggest otherwise. So all that's left is Crypt and Vault 8 (in that order). The problem is that I only have rN++ with zero penalties, however if I wear an artefact amulet with HUNGER I can get rN+++, is the hunger worth it? I have a similar problem with rElec for Vault 8, there is a sword with rElec that I can use and that same HUNGER amulet has rElec as well. Is rElec++ enough to clear Vault 8 (I've never done it before)?

As always, any advice is appreciated. I realized I should have memorized deflect missiles instead of repel missiles so now I'm leveling up air magic. I'd also like to know how to handle large packs of poison resistant monsters, since poisonous cloud doesn't work on them.
Last edited by lazylink on Friday, 13th September 2013, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 12:33

Re: CIP SpVM 11

slowcar wrote:hxy, you don't have to disarm traps to level t&d anymore, you can just train the skill.

right.. I've just started my first 0.10 game.. looking forward to all the changes ;)

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 12:42

Re: CIP SpVM 11

lazylink wrote:The problem is that I only have rN++ with zero penalties, however if I wear an artefact amulet with HUNGER I can get rN+++, is the hunger worth it? I have a similar problem with rElec for Vault 8, there is a sword with rElec that I can use and that same HUNGER amulet has rElec as well. Is rElec++ enough to clear Vault 8 (I've never done it before)?

There WILL be Shadow Dragons in V:8, so you need rN+++ unless you don't mind getting drained.
But do mind the -TELE on your amulet - you won't be able to blink away in a hurry.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 16:46

Re: CIP SpVM 11

-TELE isn't as much of a death sentence for Spriggans, as they can move fast. He might also be able to take off the amulet in a hurry (so it's not quite as bad as a -TELE armor or weapon).

Also, I think rElec only goes up to one level for players. But having it is essential, especially for low-HP characters like Spriggans. You could probably get by without a staff of power (as Spriggans have uber MP naturally), so rElec sword might be better than the amulet if the hunger or -TELE issue bothers you.

You can use other cloud spells to deal with poison-resistant groups (Freeze Cloud is probably castable if you've been using Poisonous Cloud). As a Vehumet worshiper, you should eventually be able to cast one of the top-level destructive spells - Fire Storm, Ice Storm, or Tornado, all of which are good for exterminating groups. Also be aware that Poison Arrow can hurt even poison-resistant enemies. If you don't have access to other cloud spells, you can try the various bolt spells or Chain Lightning as they can hit multiple targets.

I notice that you do not have any Air Magic skill, despite using Poisonous Cloud and Repel/Deflect Missiles for so long now. Not to lecture you, but that was a mistake - obviously not a fatal one for you, but still you would be better off with Air Magic skill. Blasty casters (which you are) should pick at least one of the four elemental schools to have, and increase that skill as much as they can get away with. So I would turn Air Magic back on immediately, and maybe even focus it for a while. Leveling that will also make it easier to cast Deflect Missiles, and open the door for other useful air spells.

Finally, a full rN+++ isn't absolutely necessary for Vault:8. You can get by with rN++, and you probably won't get drained too badly. Especially as you have decent EV - that plus Repel/Deflect Missiles will help you avoid getting hit by draining breath.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 18:36

Re: CIP SpVM 11

You are no longer gaining the full benefit of the Staff of Power because your base MP is so high now. You'd probably be better off using the staff of air, which will boost the strength of all your air spells and provide rElec.

Spriggans innately have very high magic resistance, so your cloak is a little superfluous. At this point I would trade it out for a cloak with another resistance or a cloak of preservation if you can find it. After Vault:8, you can probably improve your robe as well. A better hat would be nice, too, but those can be rare.

Another way to shore up your resistances and improve your defense is to pick up a buckler. Elf is usually full of branded bucklers, and your skill would raise pretty quickly at this stage in the game if you focused on it. Spriggans need a shield skill of 9 to eliminate the spellcasting penalty from a buckler.

If you'd like to pick up some more experience before tackling Vault:8, the first four levels of the Crypt should be pretty easy for you. Also, you have access to a treasure trove on Vault:3, and the only entrance requirement is to bring it the Horn of Geryon. That too might be manageable for you at this point and may yield some great loot.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 20:36

Re: CIP SpVM 11

It's not the damage that's an issue, it's the XP loss.
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1729

Joined: Wednesday, 19th October 2011, 21:25

Location: New England.

Post Saturday, 25th February 2012, 20:58

Re: CIP SpVM 11

minmay wrote:There is no XP loss.

Unless something has been changed in 0.10 draining reduces the XP you have. Shadow dragons can be killed or avoided without rN but for a new player tackling V:8 I would recommend they have at least rN+ to reduce the XP loss.
What made you happy today?
Shatari wrote:I traded a goat for a Nintendo DS XL, and a ton of games.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 21

Joined: Sunday, 12th June 2011, 20:24

Post Monday, 27th February 2012, 07:50

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Prepare for a tale. I cleared out the Crypts with some difficulty. Even with Dispel Undead it usually took 2-3 spells to kill the skeletal warriors! Not to the mention the bone dragons, which usually take 75% of my MP to kill. I had to fight Khufu and his mummies and he hit hard, had to use a scroll of blinking to live. Final level of the Crypt was easy since I went very slow and had a lot of stealth. I trained up my Air Magic to about 12, but by then I saw that I would never learn Tornado in time, so I started training up Conjurations.

I was completely unprepared for Vault 8, I had no idea that I would be surrounded by enemies like that. I had to go back and memorize the "Intoxication" spell and by that time they had crowded the stairs and I had to do some stair dancing and blinking to survive. After I cleared the stairs it was fairly easy. Shadow dragons didn't cause much trouble because I put on my rN+ amulet whenever I saw one.

Then it was onto Zot. I only faced 1 orb of fire in Zot:1-4, and I was fairly prepared for them with rf++ and resist mutation amulet. I think one pack of draconians put me below 50%, but overall I used Venom Bolt a lot, which worked wonders in the corridors!

In Zot 5 by far the hardest challenge was Tiamat. First time I faced him I took out a lot of his guards but had to run away. Lucky for me, the stairs down were far apart from each other, if they weren't I would have been finished for sure. After I rested and came back I cleared out the non-static chambers of Zot 5 and I realized that Tiamat had run off to the static section of the dungeon. That was bad. But I went slowly and surely, luring out monsters one at a time. Orb Guardians were no threat at all with Poison Arrow I killed them in 2-3 hits. By now Conjurations was maxed at 27 (I don't know if that was a mistake) and I started training Necromancy to handle undead easier (can someone PLEASE tell me how to handle Bone Dragons??? They have so much HP!). When I spotted an orb of fire I stepped back, hasted myself, and then shot orbs of destructions, making sure that I exposed myself as little as possible. Using this method I only had to use one cure mutation potion. Then I faced Tiamat. It was truly a battle of battles. I kept throwing orb after orb but he took them like a champ, and I had to quaff a Magic potion to finish him off! My reward was a +4 dragonskin cloak! It's weird though, in the game it doesn't actually tell you what the cloak does and in your character information the cloak doesn't affect any of your stats, but according to the wiki it massively improves all of your resistances. I think it should say in the game exactly what the cloak does, if anything at all! After that fight the rest of the chamber was easy as long as I went slowly and recharged by mana after each fight.

After that I gathered by healing potions, and charged my wand of digging for the trip to the surface. I was lucky enough to face a pandemonium lord on D21, and I immediately hit teleport, but he still got off a torment spell which hurt a lot. My teleport was good and I quickly got out of there. There was one time I was surrounded by some weak monsters but I blasted myself out. With lots of uses of wand of digging, getting to the surface to pretty easy, and I finally got my first win!

I really enjoyed this character, it seems like spellcasters are stronger and a bit more fun than fighters, for me anyway. My next character will be the same, and I'll use what I learned to get more runes. Thanks everybody for the advice, I would never have won without it!
Last edited by lazylink on Friday, 13th September 2013, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 13:38

Post Monday, 27th February 2012, 09:07

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Woohoo, congratulations! :)
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Monday, 27th February 2012, 14:37

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Congrats :D

Here's what the knowledge bot says about Tiamat's cloak:
  Code:
Tiamat's new cloak after mean people took away her gda. When worn, every time your resistances are checked, it has a 50% chance of adding +1 to them.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Monday, 27th February 2012, 15:07

Re: CIP SpVM 11

Huzzah! Congratulations!

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Monday, 27th February 2012, 17:14

Re: CIP SpVM 11

well done!
first win is always something special, and really nice to see that somebody who put much effort into succeeding achieved the victory!
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

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