I play so slooowly


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 96

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Tuesday, 5th November 2019, 23:29

I play so slooowly

How do peoply play so fast?
I'm not talking about speed running, I just mean in normal games.

A basic 3-runer on a melee dude with heavy use of o and tab takes me 8-10 hours.
A 3-runer with a caster takes me 15-20 hours.

Most people seem to be able to win in 4-5 hours.
Last edited by MrDizzy on Friday, 8th November 2019, 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 751

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Wednesday, 6th November 2019, 01:42

Re: How do people play so fast?

How many games have you won? The first couple wins take that long for everyone. By the time you are on your 10th-ish win you should be faster too.

Lots of little things that add up: Not having to look up enemies. Not having to spend time evaluating items. Seeing at a single glance the situation on the screen - dangerous situations take time, but tabbing+retreating are fast. Muscle memory for *everything*. Not fighting the interface. Generally not a lot of time spent thinking.

You can also train to play faster. First take note how long milestones like lair+first rune take you. Run MiBe quick+sloppy until you improve on those. Playing faster this way means you drink more potions and use more Trog abilities. Just be a little reckless to go *faster*.

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MrDizzy

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8676

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 6th November 2019, 05:08

Re: How do people play so fast?

Stop seeing things as words and sentences. For example, it's a waste of time to read the full message "You are feeling very hungry", when all the information can be gleaned by just seeing that "very hung" appeared in yellow. It's even worse if you read by sounding things out with your inner voice. If you play games with messages a lot, eventually you become able to pick out the relevant information while not reading 90% of message content, based on the shape of the message, the context of the actions you're doing, particular characters and colours being in the message, and so on.
The same goes for items and monsters.

Being able to intuit the target that autofight will choose, and the default target that 'f' or a spell targeter will choose, is also helpful.

Turn off animations. Set travel_delay and rest_delay to -1. Set explore_delay to -1 if playing tiles (you can discern the path autoexplore took by glancing the minimap). In console it may be faster to set it to a positive value than it is to open the map all the time, but the default is like 20 which is really slow.

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MrDizzy

Snake Sneak

Posts: 96

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Wednesday, 6th November 2019, 08:01

Re: How do people play so fast?

le_nerd wrote:How many games have you won? The first couple wins take that long for everyone. By the time you are on your 10th-ish win you should be faster too. .

That's what I thought, but I'm actually getting slower. Some of my early melee dude wins were 7.5 hours. Now 10 hours is more usual for the same combo.

duvessa wrote:Stop seeing things as words and sentences. For example, it's a waste of time to read the full message "You are feeling very hungry", when all the information can be gleaned by just seeing that "very hung" appeared in yellow. It's even worse if you read by sounding things out with your inner voice. If you play games with messages a lot, eventually you become able to pick out the relevant information while not reading 90% of message content, based on the shape of the message, the context of the actions you're doing, particular characters and colours being in the message, and so on.
The same goes for items and monsters.

I mostly don't read the text at all. I just look at the pretty pictures. Lol.
I have force_more set to flag important stuff.

duvessa wrote:Set travel_delay and rest_delay to -1. Set explore_delay to -1 if playing tiles (you can discern the path autoexplore took by glancing the minimap).

Thanks. I'll try that.
I've tried it before and found it pretty disorienting because you suddenly appear in another place, but I'll give it another go.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2185

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Wednesday, 6th November 2019, 08:38

Re: How do people play so fast?

MrDizzy wrote:Thanks. I'll try that.
I've tried it before and found it pretty disorienting because you suddenly appear in another place, but I'll give it another go.


In titles "show_travel_trail = true" shows footprints marking your autoexplore path. It helps a lot to understand with a glance the path taken and avoiding to be "disoriented" by instant travel, without delays.
However it should be enabled by default on webservers. Are you playing offline?

Another suggestion:

autofight_throw = true
autofight_throw_nomove = true

That will prevent "tab" to move forwards the nearest monster but instead throw things to him (set also autopick for stones to have something to throw anytime).
This helps me a lot to save time because most of time I just avoid to positioning - it is not so important when fighting "not so dangerous" monsters near explored terriritory. So most of the game with a melee dude becomes o-tab-o-tab which is much faster.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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MrDizzy

Snake Sneak

Posts: 96

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Wednesday, 6th November 2019, 10:24

Re: How do people play so fast?

nago wrote:In titles "show_travel_trail = true" shows footprints marking your autoexplore path. It helps a lot to understand with a glance the path taken and avoiding to be "disoriented" by instant travel, without delays.
However it should be enabled by default on webservers. Are you playing offline?

I play webtiles. And yes, those trails show.

nago wrote:Another suggestion:

autofight_throw = true
autofight_throw_nomove = true

That will prevent "tab" to move forwards the nearest monster but instead throw things to him (set also autopick for stones to have something to throw anytime).
This helps me a lot to save time because most of time I just avoid to positioning - it is not so important when fighting "not so dangerous" monsters near explored terriritory. So most of the game with a melee dude becomes o-tab-o-tab which is much faster.

Thanks. I had the first one, but not the 2nd, which meant my character would start moving once he ran out of missiles.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1217

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Wednesday, 13th November 2019, 17:09

Re: I play so slooowly

Out of curiosity, are you actually interested in playing faster? If so, why?

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 445

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Wednesday, 13th November 2019, 17:27

Re: I play so slooowly

I don't know about OP, but I value playing more rapidly in games generally for the following reasons:

- Choice density: the faster the player gets through the game, the more interesting choices are presented per time spent

- More games: very relevant in times like the tournament, but it can also let you say win 2-3 games of crawl a week and still have time for playing other games entirely

- Avoiding tedium: if players don't *need* to spend 10 hours, there must be something going on in games during those 10 hours that is not strictly part of the gameplay. Sometimes that is unfamiliarity with the game. Sometimes it is unfamiliarity with UI tricks to go faster. Sometimes it's because the player is doing laundry, cooking food, and leaving the game on. Alas, not all tedium can be avoided, but might as well iron it out when possible.

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duvessa, nago, onomastikon

Snake Sneak

Posts: 96

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Thursday, 14th November 2019, 01:52

Re: I play so slooowly

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Out of curiosity, are you actually interested in playing faster? If so, why?

Yes. Pretty much for the reasons that TheMelnTeam listed. Reduce tedium. Try more combos.

TheMeInTeam wrote:if players don't *need* to spend 10 hours, there must be something going on in games during those 10 hours that is not strictly part of the gameplay. Sometimes that is unfamiliarity with the game. Sometimes it is unfamiliarity with UI tricks to go faster. Sometimes it's because the player is doing laundry, cooking food, and leaving the game on. Alas, not all tedium can be avoided, but might as well iron it out when possible.

I think I'm probably playing too conservatively because I'm afraid of dying. Ironically, I think it actually gets me killed sometimes.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 201

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Thursday, 14th November 2019, 14:22

Re: I play so slooowly

MrDizzy wrote:I think I'm probaby playing too conservatively because I'm afraid of dying. Ironically, I think it actually gets me killed sometimes.

I have the same problem! I either take a long time agonizing about what decision to take or I get bored and stupidly rush through a series of bad decisions and commit suicide by stupidity.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 163

Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Thursday, 14th November 2019, 14:56

Re: I play so slooowly

MrDizzy wrote:I think I'm probably playing too conservatively because I'm afraid of dying.

Well, this suggests that your priorities have evolved, and you now care more about winning a lot of games than starting a lot of games :) It is logical to expect that putting more time into a character results in a higher chance of winning. Personally, I like to play at a slow pace and a high winrate.

MrDizzy wrote:Ironically, I think it actually gets me killed sometimes.

This suggests that you are putting time into the wrong places. Tactics matter much more than strategy. For example, a great use of time is to take a deep breath and look through your inventory whenever you see a dangerous enemy (early centaur or killer bee, later lich or shrike, etc), get shafted/teleported, or find yourself at 2/3 HP. Deciding whether to use a cloak or a scarf (for example) matters very, very little in comparison; you can settle those kinds of questions by coinflip with little impact on your winrate. In fact spending time on those little decisions can hurt your winrate, as you may be experiencing, by fatiguing you as a player, leading to sloppier play.

If you care about winrate but also about win speed, I suggest trying to improve your ability to identify "critical moments" (threat evaluation and using consumables pre-emptively, and emergency recognition and reacting correctly) and spend time thinking in those situations. At the same time, when you catch yourself thinking about other decisions (which lair branch first? buckler, or train for a shield? what's the most efficient way to kill this popcorn?), limit yourself to one minute and then remind yourself that you might just be fatiguing yourself.

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onomastikon

Spider Stomper

Posts: 201

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Thursday, 14th November 2019, 17:35

Re: I play so slooowly

Personally, a large amount of my time is spent on spellcasters. I never know what spell to use.
Your advice of taking a deep breath is key here. Most of my stupid deaths have to do with this.
I've often wondered if I should just play simple combinations like MiBe until I have high streaks and then focus on other combinations.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 117

Joined: Wednesday, 1st May 2019, 19:31

Post Saturday, 16th November 2019, 10:36

Re: I play so slooowly

Me too. Just a note, perhaps a twist on TheMeInTeam's comment regarding tedium: A signigicant part of our culture is the high value that instrumental reason plays, and insofar that we are at least in some part influenced by our culture there is a part of us that values "efficiency" highly, and this might play a role in interpreting being "faster" as something inherently worthwhile, and thus as something that actually reduces tedium -- but an equally rational explanation could be that making choices and puzzling over small bits, even the strategic bits that have been correctly identified as time sinks, is inherently pleasing or inherently "fun" and thus less tedious. Perhaps it is not coincidental that everyone here is enjoying a turn-based game, which should at least implicitly encourage the possibility of taking one's time. Bend the knee at Chei for a bit and smell the flowers, for travelling the path is itself inherently enjoyable (and not merely a means to some goal).

Spider Stomper

Posts: 201

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Saturday, 16th November 2019, 12:40

Re: I play so slooowly

My opinion is that I take a long amount of time without having a good win percentage to show for it. For instance, I only won 3 games in the tournament. And had some high level splats. So I am clearly not using all that time for taking good decisions.

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