Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 25

Joined: Monday, 23rd April 2018, 04:59

Post Saturday, 1st June 2019, 23:21

Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

Will probably be dead before I get an answer, but asking anyway.

Just found +9 Heavy Cross bow "Sniper" (Velocity, infinite Acc, sinv) base accuracy 0, 22 damage, 27 delay. I have no skills at crossbow

I have been using a +5 shortbow (velocity) base accuracy 2, damage 9, delay 13 and +1 shortbow (freeze). For archery I have a skill of 10.

So questions:

What the heck cos infinite Acc mean?

Right now, Damage per unit time (DpUT) rank the weapons Shortbow Velocity, shortbow freeze, Crossbow.

At optimum skill levels, the Crossbow is slightly better then all the short bows.

So, what do folks suggest? Start training crossbow? Use the crossbow now even though lower DpUT?

(I worship Okawaru if that effects the discussion).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6072

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 2nd June 2019, 04:44

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

Infinite accuracy means "it never misses, ever" which is not bad, however it does come at the cost of being slower to fire than a standard +9 triple crossbow (which doesn't miss *much* by the time you can fire it at min delay)

10 skill isn't a *lot* to sacrifice, but it's not insignificant either, honestly, I'd stick with what does the most damage right now (the shortbows) there's only very very few creatures that are particularly hard to hit in the first place.

I definitely wouldn't use the slow crossbow with no skill.
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Dis Charger

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Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Sunday, 2nd June 2019, 17:56

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

I have a hard time to believe that those shortbows are competitive. Those are early game weapons, while Sniper is world class.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 368

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Sunday, 2nd June 2019, 18:10

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

I wouldn't use Sniper unless I had no trained ranged options, or to hit exceptionally evasive enemies. Missing isn't usually a problem (for me), whereas the high (min)delay is always a disadvantage.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 2nd June 2019, 18:15

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

Magipi wrote:I have a hard time to believe that those shortbows are competitive. Those are early game weapons, while Sniper is world class.

Honestly in most cases I'd rather have a regular triple crossbow, or even an arbelist over the Sniper. Sniper's special ability is only useful in a very very small set of cases, and it's disadvantage is large and effects every combat.
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Snake Sneak

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Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Post Monday, 3rd June 2019, 13:31

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

First of all don't use the +1 shortbow, ever. The +5 shortbow entirely surpasses it.

How are you measuring DpUT? Does your measurement account for enemy AC? This is important because AC hampers the shortbow a lot more than it hampers the crossbow. If you are using fsim, then you're good, that accounts for AC.

Siegurt is correct that Sniper is not really better than a +9 triple crossbow, but you don't have a +9 triple crossbow. +9 weapons are really good and generally compare favorably to +5 weapons. With 10 levels of crossbow training, Sniper will likely surpass your shortbow. On the other hand, a +5 shortbow is a "good enough" weapon to serve until you find an enchanted longbow (which should occur before you get a rune, thanks to Okawaru gifts and centaur warriors), which will be significantly better than anything else. Personally I would probably stick with bows because it is simpler and good enough, and simple strategies prevent deadly mistakes. But technically, it is better not to account for weapons you don't already have, so I encourage you to fsim Sniper with 10 levels of crossbow skill and verify - if it is really better, go for it. If not, there is no point.

Realistically both strategies are strong, so the way you lose is not likely to be a strategic mistake. I would advise you to pick whichever strategy is more motivating to you, since demotivation leads to deadly tactical mistakes.
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Barkeep

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Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Friday, 7th June 2019, 19:29

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

If you use Sniper, remember that it'll give monsters a bunch of time to do stuff before you get a chance to act again. Also remember that you have Oka's heroism which will make it take less time to fire.

Personally, I'm of the "if I find an unrand and it looks fun, use it unless it is abjectly wrong" camp. Even if it is abjectly wrong, I might still use it because using weird unrands is fun. I die a lot, may as well die using a weapon I haven't used before.
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Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 490

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Saturday, 8th June 2019, 17:43

Re: Dumb AM ranger question 12 which to use??

I'm not a fan of shortbows primarily because they preclude the ability to use shields, and a normal shortbow sucks compared to a more well defended basic melee character. If you find sniper early on enough, it is a good enough case to consider a substantial investment in crossbows and foregoing the use of shields. Because sniper is perfectly accurate, it is actually pretty good for even lower levels of skills. The trick is to utilize it strategically. A few recommendations for it's use:

Stealth works well with sniper, because you'll get the drop on a lot more monsters at range. Keep it wielded as your primary weapon, and then take the first shot at range, followed by subsequent shots based on how far away the target is and how many other targets are behind it. Leave yourself time to escape and not get hit a bunch by melee. Don't use sniper at close or zero range unless there is a reason, instead switch to a melee close to or when they reach melee range, if you plan to continue the engagement. Crawl has so many exception cases, it's hard to give them all to you, when to break general guidelines, but let's say in the case you run into a highly evasive spriggan that you may have difficulty hitting with a melee weapon, here's a time when you might consider keeping the sniper wielded into melee, because it'll still hit it, and even if you aren't doing the maximum amount of damage it can deliver (which is significant), highly evasive creatures also tend to have fewer hit points, so it can still be a good choice. Use your brain and think about the capabilities of your weapons and of your targets is the best overall advice. If you want to stick with crossbows as your primary weapon, all the way into late game and extended, I prefer velocity or TSO blessed holy crossbows. Portal projectile and apportation make handy utility spells to invest towards. Translocations isn't a waste on almost any character because of lesser beckoning and the basic blink spell as well. You don't need to spend a lot on it, it shouldn't be focused on much until after your basic defenses and offense are in place, with exception of blink spell perhaps. It depends mainly on what kind of body armour you find.

Remember that you don't have to only use sniper, or use sniper. Most people know by now that I scoff at two-handed anything, but sniper is one of the rare weapons I make exception for, so take that into consideration. It's good. It's certainly way better than any run of the mill junk you'll typically find by even mid-game.

Good luck

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