Bring back Pakellas


Although the central place for this kind of discussion is on the CDO wiki, some may find it helpful to discuss potential requests and suggestions here first.

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4022

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 13th September 2018, 23:52

Bring back Pakellas

Now that the big three wands have been history for a while, I think it's time we bring back Pakellas. The concept is still interesting. If the god is considered too weak, maybe make it gift evokables more often.
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEEHEMoDEHuDDAsHaBeKoAK
CeVMMfWnMiAKTeAMDrIEFoVMVSFiMuVMGhGlVpMoHaWrSpWzOgGlTrMoCeWnMfBeMiSkDrEEGrFiFoGlDgEnFeNe
OpGlHuSuDDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVMHaAMBaEnHuMoHOWnDsWzDDHuDgWnGnBeFeIEMiEnMfCj

For this message the author Sprucery has received thanks:
VeryAngryFelid

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8239

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 00:42

Re: Bring back Pakellas

Sprucery wrote:Now that the big three wands have been history for a while, I think it's time we bring back Pakellas. The concept is still interesting.
Is it? I found that Pakellas games felt like playing a conjurer or summoner that uses V instead of Z. I don't think the yellow wands were the issue.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago

Temple Termagant

Posts: 12

Joined: Wednesday, 5th September 2018, 02:27

Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 01:09

Re: Bring back Pakellas

It could be. Besides being limited use, evokables are distinguished from spells in that you didn't start with enough to carry you through the middle game, but had to adapt to what you found. You knew exactly what you were getting with a spell start, not so with evokables. Your armor and skill options are also much more flexible with evokables, compared to spells.

But that was the problem. There needs to be less power for evokables compared to spells, but Pakellas felt like he gave you the benefit of spells, without the disadvantages, which was more than most other gods for warriors. So in that sense, removing the big three does help in bringing balance to Pakellas, and removes a lot of the cheap builds. The question, though, is whether there are still enough diversity in evokables in the game to make Pakellas worth while?
User avatar

Slime Squisher

Posts: 363

Joined: Thursday, 1st March 2012, 01:42

Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 08:36

Re: Bring back Pakellas

Honestly, I think that having a god tied so closely evocables will always be problematic.

Evocables are meant to be limited resources, if you have a god that makes them more powerful and less limited that is likely to cause problems. Any change you make to this items will affect the god too, which makes him a pain in the ass to balance.

I think the way to go is to decouple him from regular evocables a bit more. Just keep device surge as an ability for wands and evocables - but keep them at the same charges, and make him gift his own evocables, that don't spawn on the dungeon (so they can be balanced separately). There should be more things about the god not related to evocables IMO

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8239

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 21:09

Re: Bring back Pakellas

Keep in mind that when Pakellas existed, there were still rods, which were unlimited evokables, and Pakellas was guaranteed to give you a rod. I suppose you could bring back Pakellas and rods, and make rods Pakellas-exclusive, much like with Nemelex and decks. But rods are basically spells with their own MP bars, and that's not that exciting, which is why they were removed in the first place. Decks at least have a cool element of risk (you don't know exactly what card you'll draw unless you spend piety).

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1568

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Friday, 14th September 2018, 23:14

Re: Bring back Pakellas

Pereza0 wrote:Evocables are meant to be limited resources, if you have a god that makes them more powerful and less limited that is likely to cause problems.


What if he mostly just made them more powerful?

Temple Termagant

Posts: 12

Joined: Wednesday, 5th September 2018, 02:27

Post Saturday, 15th September 2018, 00:13

Re: Bring back Pakellas

They're already powerful, and you don't want to tie a god to making them powerful because then people who don't worship the god would be missing out on a feature of the game.

Pakellas is an interesting concept, but I think the emphasis should be on him being a god of inventions and contraptions, rather than a god of wands. The aspect of Pakellas that initially attracted me was the whole Rube Goldberg factor - the idea that he would reward followers for getting past challenges in elaborate and inventive ways.

I think Pakellas would work well as a traps and devices god. Currently, there's no player traps in the game, so this would be new. Pakellas could allow you to craft mechanical traps using weapons, magic traps using scrolls, and stationary turrets using wands and ranged weapons. Then he could reward you for killing or removing monsters using them. There is similarity with Fedhas, but not enough to be too similar. I'd especially like it for Pakellas to reward people for, as an example, killing monsters by making them fall through a dungeon hole onto open water and drown, but it could be hard to detect these inventive methods.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1568

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Saturday, 15th September 2018, 00:52

Re: Bring back Pakellas

EtadanikM wrote:They're already powerful,


Evokables are already a little too powerful.

Regardless, Pakellas granting a passive skill boost to Evocations wouldn't be broken. He could buff wands of flame and random effects too, then maybe a capstone ability to make evocations useage only take half a turn.



Pakellas is an interesting concept, but I think the emphasis should be on him being a god of inventions and contraptions, rather than a god of wands. The aspect of Pakellas that initially attracted me was the whole Rube Goldberg factor - the idea that he would reward followers for getting past challenges in elaborate and inventive ways.

I think Pakellas would work well as a traps and devices god. Currently, there's no player traps in the game, so this would be new. Pakellas could allow you to craft mechanical traps using weapons, magic traps using scrolls, and stationary turrets using wands and ranged weapons. Then he could reward you for killing or removing monsters using them. There is similarity with Fedhas, but not enough to be too similar. I'd especially like it for Pakellas to reward people for, as an example, killing monsters by making them fall through a dungeon hole onto open water and drown, but it could be hard to detect these inventive methods.



The only thing this has in common with previous Pakellas incarnations is the name.

For this message the author Rast has received thanks:
VeryAngryFelid

Snake Sneak

Posts: 99

Joined: Friday, 9th March 2018, 20:26

Post Sunday, 16th September 2018, 01:00

Re: Bring back Pakellas

Pakellas returning would be neat, but he'd need... significant changes. Some of the wands being super strong was only a single issue. Another problem ontop of only being "god of using more wands" was that evocations was already good, and then all his abilities powered up via evocations, and obviously benefited from evokable power increase on evocations too. But that's easily adjusted by shifting his god powers from evo to invo.

Quick Charge would need to go, but Supercharge could just apply to wands instead of wands and rods. Either same effect, or make one wand gain charges with exp. Device Surge, in addition to being invo-powered, could be separated into Wand Surge and Artifact Surge; the latter being a higher piety cost ability that doesn't just increase the elemental evokable's spellpower, but actually does something more impressive, e.g. Lamp of Fire becoming more of a fire-type glaciate. Weaker than the average god nuke ability, but offering more variety. Phial of floods could inflict Engulf on an area for awhile outright instead of relying on the water elementals to do it.

An ability like Artifact Surge would be nice for the factor of Pak's abilities doing something new, instead of just evoking with more spellpower and more often. Raising the cost of Wand Surge and making it function similarly would be interesting, but, it'd probably just be too strong.

A few Pak-exclusive evokables could also be nice. Maybe a "choose one out of selection" type thing, possibly even replacing Supercharge entirely to help distance Pak from mainly being "god of uses more wands".

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.