VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage


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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 19:18

VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

Sup, dudes.

Me and some of my friends are planning on doing a semi-competitive thing between the few of us: We're gonna play DCSS and see who can get to five runes, then win. None of us are terribly good at the game, so it could take a while.

The twist: Each of us is stuck playing a different class combo, based on the five different Vermintide characters (The other thing we've been playing a lot of recently.) In no particular order:

"Ryan:" Kruber (HuFi), based on the "Foot Knight" subclass.
"Ben:" Bardin (DDBe), based on the "Slayer" subclass.
"Dylan:" Kerillian (DEEn), based on the "Shade" subclass.
"Greg:" Saltzpyre (HuMo), based on the "Zealot" subclass.
"Al:" Sienna (DsFE), based on the "Unchained" subclass.

Got advice for any of us? Who do you think will win? Any other comments?
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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 19:22

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

If it is competitive, wouldn't it be good for the options to be close in power level? As it is, DDBe is great and HuMo is terrible.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 19:39

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

Are they really that unbalanced? Huh.

In that case, any ways to make the characters more balanced without losing the Vermintide flavor? What should the comps be?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 20:08

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

Well if you're looking to copy the races, I think Bardin is a dwarf (I just looked up Vermintide quickly - I haven't seen it) so you might be "stuck" with DD. DD is pretty strong and would probably be the easiest. If you wanted to go with crossbows on a weaker race, Kobolds have +2, but they aren't really associated with hammers/melee fighting, and they're fairly weak overall. Also terrible theme in that they aren't much like dwarves. I would consider doing a different background though - BE has a lot of focus on the god Trog and going berserk - does the Vermintide worship a god/berserk? He's called the dwarf ranger, so DDHu might be better.

High elf would have been a better flavor than deep elf for Kerillian, as high elves are more generalists who can do the "ranger" playstyle; deep elves are more magic focused and if you're trying to melee with one it's going to be hard. They're still fairly good with a bow, though. High elves are available in version .20, which isn't that far back, and is playable on most of the servers. DEEn would end up going into damaging magic (not necessarily fire) but it might end up being a bit more like a mage. You could try to use bows as much as possible for flavor, but there could be ammo problems if you don't know what monsters you don't need to waste an arrow on.

Really at this point from what I can tell most of them seem like hybrid melee/ranged fighters, with the exception of the clearly fire mage. I didn't find any info on what the subclasses are, though, maybe they have a bit more build diversity.

Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 21:07

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

I do miss both the mountain dwarf and the high elf (and the sludge elf, for that matter.) Otherwise i'd definitely have gone with a mountain dwarf for bardin and a high elf for Kerillian. That said, you're right that .19 isn't far away at all, and we could re-download that and use it for the challenge instead.

if the DDBe is too powerful relative to the other classes, then DDHu would be a better fit. And yes, the base version of Bardin is a ranger, which fits with Hu better. The Berserker choice was because there's a different version of Bardin that's a berserker in all but name, which appealed to said friend - i think he'll be amenable to the hunter version instead, though. Or at least, I don't think he'll grouse too much.

So would HuFi, DDHu, HEhu, HuMo and DsFE be more balanced between the five, then?
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Zot Zealot

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Post Monday, 26th March 2018, 22:48

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

More generally, species and backgrounds in DCSS aren't meant to be balanced. Mo is a weak background, and Be is sometimes called "easy mode". Ds have a poor early game, while DD has unlimited potions of heal wounds.

EDIT: if you want a balanced challenge, perhaps let everyone play whatever character they want but assign different amounts of points for winning them. For example every rune with DDBe is worth 1 point while HuMo gets 10 per rune.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 27th March 2018, 00:24

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

I don't think 10 to 1 is really needed to make it more fair, but you could let the monk play as a gladiator instead if you want them to have a bit more physical strength early on. Really though the backgrounds aren't too important. Race wise humans/high elf are reasonably good, but DS/DD are a bit stronger.

If you wanted to go the bonus points method I'd probably give the humans/high elf about a 50% point bonus over DS/DD. DS can be seriously strong with a good mutation set, and if you're not very good at crawl you will probably die several times and thus reroll your mutations until you get a fairly good one.

Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 27th March 2018, 01:48

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

I can definitely change Saltzpyre to a human gladiator, then. In any case, "Greg" wanted to use long swords, and the gladiator's throwing nets should be a bit more accessible than the monk's piety boost.

And while i'm not sure about bonus points, how about i make it so that the DS and DD (Bardin and Sienna) need to collect 9 runes and the others need to collect 6. Does that sound about right?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 27th March 2018, 06:50

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

I don't think there's a big difference in getting 6 or 9 runes. The break points are 3 runes, 5 runes, then maybe 14 runes and 15 runes (if Tomb is considered the hardest, this depends on the character though). Personally, I would also say that Pan runes are easier than Hell runes so that would make 9 runes a break point too, but this is just my personal opinion.
DCSS: 77: ...HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}
DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}
FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Tuesday, 8th January 2013, 17:24

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Post Tuesday, 27th March 2018, 12:28

Re: VerminCrawl: Pungent Potage

So 5 runes for the DS and DD, and 3 runes for everyone else?
Cheers, luv! The CeFi's here!

Wins: MiFi of Qaz (6 runes)

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