Wundvrond - tloc style deity


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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 00:24

Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Conduct:

Wundvrond empowers worshipers who stay close to their disembodied Souls, which remain stationary (drops on the ground) while the player is in sight of hostile monsters. The Soul offers tremendous offensive and defensive powers confined to a large area that grows with piety. Followers can manipulate their own tactical position within the aura and control the movement of hostile monsters, even preventing movement all together. Flight is granted automatically without the need to (a)ctivate in advance when traveling over undesirable terrain like water and lava. Player is given flight to mitigate potential problems that can arise with movement limitations and impassible terrain like Lava. Because this is involuntary, effects that would otherwise deal extra damage to flying characters do not deal the bonus damage. Wundvrond passively increases the ability to evade attacks as player devoutness grows and proximity to the Soul remains close.

Initiating worship of Wundvrond gives the player a Soul Aura extending 4 tiles in all directions and unaffected by Line of Sight (LoS) which grows with every piety, resulting in an aura radius of 14 tiles at maximum piety. Travel outside the Soul Aura causes permanent slow until the player comes in contact with the aura once more. Additionally, traveling outside the current level while the Soul is dropped causes rot. The Soul, and thus the Aura, both remain stationary when hostile monsters are in view - the Soul is dropped for lack of a better term, and remains stationary so long as the player, not the Soul itself, is in LoS of hostiles. When LoS with hostiles is broken, the soul moves towards the player at a rate of 2 tiles per movement turn. Naga souls move 2 tiles for every tile the player moves, same with Spriggans and characters equipped with increased movement speed gear. Teleportation destinations are always inside the soul aura regardless of the source. Finally, worshipers in sight of hostiles cannot use stairs or shafts, and do not reveal or trigger shaft traps.


Active Abilities:
*.....: Tight Spot: Haste + Mesm
**....: Soul Pivot: Noisy ctele to any tile in soul range (drain penalty for breaking los). Piety cost, exhaustion
***...: Anchor Enemies: Prevents all monsters in LOS from moving, blinking, teleporting and summoning, duration scales with piety. Anchored enemies are always visible. Piety cost, hard pass/fail based on Invocations, cannot be resisted; either 100% pass or fail on all monsters. For the duration, monsters entering LOS are frozen in place
****..: Greater Beckoning: Smite targeted "blink other close." Anchor effect: Prevents affected monster from moving, blinking, teleporting and summoning, duration scales with invocations. Piety cost, invocations based success rate
******: Monster Smash: Powerful version of Gell`s Gravitas. Smite targeting, forces every monster in LOS towards the target, dealing massive damage. Anchor effect: Prevents all affected from moving, blinking, teleporting and summoning, duration scales with invocations. High piety cost


Passive Abilities:
......: Automatic flight over water and lava.
*....: Being close to the soul increases evasion. Scales with piety, bonus starts at +1 and falls by rapidly for every square the player is away from the soul. Bonus maxes out at +20


Wrath:
Your soul still drops around enemies in LoS, aura radius permanently reduced to 7 (LoS) and all negative effects like teleportation limitations and stair traveling rot remain. All positive effects like bonus EV are removed. Lost Souls spawn often.


Long Descriptions:

Tight Spot: You are hasted and can only move towards enemies. Duration based on invocations. Possible to move away from an enemy if that movement puts you closer to another enemy. Mesmerizing effect persists beyond haste effect - this duration is reduced with higher invocation skill until both effects end simultaneously.

Soul Pivot: Dramatically powerful escape option with a base exhaustion cost which drains the player only when leaving the LoS of dangerous enemies. Drain cost will be a function of the number of dangerous enemies that leave player LoS only, meaning the player can use this ability to reposition cheaply themselves. In other words, if the same monsters are in sight before and after using the ability, there is no associated drain cost. Fog and other sight breakers will reduce this draining cost. This ability always makes monsters alert to prevent this from being a stabbing feature, therefore stepping on the toes of Dithmenos. At ****** piety, the range for this ability is 19 tiles in any direction. Keep in mind that after using this ability, the soul still needs to catch up (2 tiles per movement turn) and so, in addition to exhaustion, Soul Pivot cannot be chained. Dangerous to use no matter what: since your soul can only catch up to you two tiles at a time, and only while you are not in LoS of enemies, a maximum length Soul Pivot can severely limit your movement options if you land in sight of a hostile monster.

Anchor Enemies: Stops all enemies from moving, blinking, teleporting and summoning. Enemies who are invisible, or who become invisible after being anchored, are revealed. Player is `buffed` with Anchor status effect, and any enemies outside LoS upon activation will be stuck in place when coming into sight. These enemies are stuck in place for as long as the effect remains on the player. This is also a powerful offensive ability for ranged characters, limiting options for enemies who do not have ranged options.

Greater Beckoning: Similar to the Lesser Beckoning spell (blinks the target to an empty tile next to the player) except instead of beam targeting any monster can be pulled via smite targeting. Target monster is then "anchored," receiving all penalties associated with the Anchor Enemies effect. Straightforward piety cost with duration dependent on invocations skill. The ability can fail to be used, but it cannot be resisted. If implemented, Lesser Beckoning will be removed from the game.

Monster Smash: Smite targeted top-tier ability modeled after Gell`s Gravitas on steroids. Affects all monsters, giving them the Anchor effect. Target monster takes damage based on the number and size of monsters moved adjacently. Very high piety cost with a hard pass/fail invocations check - it either works on every monster, or the ability fails completely. There is no margin for some enemies to be affected while others are not. If implemented, Gell`s Gravitas will be removed from the game.


:twisted: You can test a conduct patch on CPO webtiles! :twisted:

Revisions in this color

Current playtesting features:
Soul is dropped and remains immobile while player is in LoS on hostiles
Soul Aura range begins at 4 tiles and grows up to 14 with piety
+EV bonus begins at *..... scales with both piety (determines maximum positive ev bonus) and proximity to soul (determines current ev bonus) and maxes out at +20ev
All teleports land within Soul Aura
Travel outside Soul Aura causes slow
Travel outside current level while your Soul is dropped causes rot
Piety decay is currently off


Inspiration: This god is designed to be to Translocations what Yred is to Necromancy - movement and tactical positioning of the player and monsters without spellcasting investment.

Credit to PleasingFungus, gammafunk and Lasty for hours of discussion about abilities and balance. Co-created and programming in progress by chequers
Last edited by twelwe on Thursday, 22nd December 2016, 00:14, edited 12 times in total.
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 00:38

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style diety

Just a note about me supposedly contributing "hours of discussion about abilities and balance":

twelwe wrote:because gammafunk we spent 30 minutes to come up with `light green`

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 00:54

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style diety

and I thank you for that, because my prior conversation was with a box of crayola
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 01:40

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style diety

I don't honestly have much to say about this other than it sounds very cool.
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 02:19

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Small revision: The Anchor Enemies effect reveals invisible monsters for the duration. **.... ability renamed
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 07:24

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

I find the idea of a translocations God to be really intriguing, and I'd love that idea to be explored. I don't think I like this incarnation however. Even if I did, I'd say it needs to be beaten to death with the simple stick. Let me try to be constructive :)

Thematically, I'm not really feeling it. It's a bit messy with connections to gravity, souls, translocations... I'd stick to one of these and develop it more until you can say "it's the God of XXX" instinctively.

Then, I think it's mechanically too complex for what it's trying to achieve. It seems to me that the net result is going to be similar to worshipping Cheibriados (i.e you are encouraged to remain stationary when enemies appear) with some extra escape options built in. Reading the kit as it is, I don't see any reason why I'd ever want to move; I get a substantial buff from staying where I started and a set of abilities that can keep enemies where they are anyway, which renders the whole "disconnected from my soul" mechanic a bit obsolete.

If I was rewarded from moving away from my soul now that'd be interesting; this could become a risk/reward mechanic (defensive bonuses when close, offensive when far).

I also really dislike soul pivot. Hidden costs are bad I think, specially when based on something spoilery like monster difficulty.

Here are a couple tweaks that would make it a bit more interesting in my opinion:

  • Tight Spot is now Silver Thread: same mechanic, except you're mesmerised to only walk towards your soul.
  • Soul pivot teleports your soul, not yourself (same range)
  • Rethink soul mechanics so there is a point (preferably for offense) in staying away from your soul.
  • Get rid of either anchor enemies or monster smash, the god has way too much going on already.
Last edited by Steel Neuron on Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 07:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 07:28

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

This is now semi-playable on CPO! Do not expect a 100% complete build, the god is still less than 48 hours old as of this posting, and may not work at all!
Last edited by twelwe on Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 08:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 07:56

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity (PLAYABLE!)

I played to temple but as soon as I joined Wund I was unable to move. Something with the soul anchor is borked I guess. I Q'd out at that point. Too bad it sounds interesting. I was playing a troll monk BTW, so that might have had something to do with it, starting with ** piety maybe.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 08:01

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity (PLAYABLE!)

PlatinumSpider wrote:I played to temple but as soon as I joined Wund I was unable to move. Something with the soul anchor is borked I guess. I Q'd out at that point. Too bad it sounds interesting. I was playing a troll monk BTW, so that might have had something to do with it, starting with ** piety maybe.


Thanks for trying it out! You are the second person to report that issue - did it happen in Temple? Other player was also a monk
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 08:07

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity (PLAYABLE!)

Yep in temple, sitting on the altar.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 08:31

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

This is the very first barebones build. Keep checking for updates, it`ll be fully playable in the future! chequers runs CPO and tossed up what we had because hey, why not?
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 09:42

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

If you wait about 50 turns, save and reload it might work. You'll have to do this every time you enter a new branch. I'll work on fixing this bug ASAP. This should be fixed.

Also, exploration piety may not work? I'm not entirely clear if you can gain piety. You should be able to (like Hep).

The god has only the soul anchor related negative conducts. There are no benefits to worshipping it yet. The goal is to see how the conduct mechanic plays -- if it's too harsh, or too light.
Last edited by chequers on Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 11:02, edited 3 times in total.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 10:09

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Got to temple with a Naga fighter this time. Same thing happened, but ^^^^ that tip from chequers worked.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 10:20

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Unfortunately it seems to happen every time I take the stairs. The workaround works but it'll get tedious quickly. I will keep testing to see if the other things work though.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 11:30

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Looks like neither the passive nor active abilities work, also Inv is not trainable. The stairs are blocked when monsters are in view so that works. I'm at *** now without any bonus EV and no "a" other than spit poison. Nice challenge game though :)
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 11:40

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

The god has only the soul anchor related negative conducts. There are no benefits to worshipping it yet. The goal is to see how the conduct mechanic plays -- if it's too harsh, or too light.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 13:07

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Well, I'm clearing lair after doing orc with a naga and haven't had any major problems with the conduct other than the stairs glitch I outlined earlier. Though a race more geared toward kiting might see it differently. I have reached the end of my tether once or twice when re-positioning in orc2 without realizing it, so a marker showing the edges would be nice also a marker for the soul itself, though I assume those were coming just not implemented yet.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 13:40

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Wait... so twelwe is possibly getting something into the game, and it's completely unrelated to pizza?

My world makes no sense.

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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 13:58

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

The pizza is the Aura, the toppings are the enemies, these so-called "god" abilities are just different ways of "cooking" this "pizza".
He's not fooling anyone!!

(I'll give this god a tryout too)
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Post Wednesday, 16th November 2016, 22:55

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Wait, twelwe actually made a serious suggestion? My whole world is shattered!
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Post Saturday, 19th November 2016, 04:01

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

We might scrap the travel-outside-restrictions, but keep things like teleport limitations while punishing this kind of stray movement. Travel outside the aura would, of course, strip the player of evasion bonuses, remove god abilities, and exhaust + drain / stat-drain (especially int) the player. These would be temporary until the player reunites with the aura. Regular blink restrictions might lead to some odd behavior like being unable to blink at all while outside your aura.
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Post Saturday, 19th November 2016, 15:16

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

I believe you about how much you guys thought through the actives and passives, but could you talk a bit more about anchor enemies/greater beckoning? it seems awfully powerful not only for ranged characters but for polearm users, who could beckon someone, take a step backwards, and hack away. I don't like the idea of a god that rewards specific weapons so much.
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Post Saturday, 19th November 2016, 16:49

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Sure. They`re meant to be very powerful abilities, given as the option to backtrack into a corridor will not always be there. Keep in mind that this is not paralysis, and enemies with ranged options can and will use those options against you if you are not in melee range. This means smite attacks, confusion, etc. So, you would want to anchor Nessos, but you wouldn`t want to take that step back with your polearm. I don`t think anchor enemies or beckoning will make this a `polearms god` anymore than, say, digging makes hepl, or walking past plant allies makes fedhas, a `polearms god.` A formicid with a knight ancestor can do a ton of clever positioning to take advantage of reaching that doesn`t cost piety like Wundvrond would. That said, we do acknowledge that this is a powerful ability for ranged based player attacks.
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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 06:23

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

There are some changes to the god on CPO.

The soul anchor area is smaller (7-19 -> 4->14). You can now leave the soul anchor area but will be slowed. You can use stairs in los of enemies but are rotted.

More importantly, the first beneficial effect has been added: bonus EV from being near your soul anchor! Bonus is currently about +0-15, depending on piety and distance.

This build will be on CPO in about an hour.

EDIT: if you play and have tile corruption issues, try clearing your browser cache and tell me

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 14:09

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

i just played a game after those recent changes (will continue it later, when some abilities are added maybe)

https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/p0w ... erm0de.txt

got quite lucky with equipment, so its prob not as representative.
but that aura concept seems interesting to me.. i played with +0 TLA/SwampDA through lair and its rune branches and had ~40 EV with 12 dodging skill.
elec waraxe+flaming battleaxe were used at first
i also got teleportitis 1 from emergency quaffing quite early, and it teleports me inside of the aura only.. or when i dont have that aura - anywhere ofc.

dealing with rupert with a holy wrath great mace was most challenging part (just escaping, with no MR) until one of the teleports eventually landed me on the other side of a wall. haste seems a very valueable consumable with this god.

id say it is similar to wudzu with that defensive boost. 15 ev is quite a lot (it even seems more to me dunno) midgame.. but it has a way more serious drawback of course
so the main thing at the moment to look at, is where the center of your soul aura is, and fight there. i think some kind of better visibility for it (where the center is) might be helpful, right now you got to remember where it was, or guess from moving and looking at the changing EV number (i played autoexplore)

cool idea imo. hope this gets further, thx to all involved.

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 15:51

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Thanks for trying it out!

Teleports of all kinds, intended, unintended, from scrolls to mutations and even hostile intentions, will always land you in your Soul Aura in more stable versions. There will be an indicator as to where your Soul is dropped, which is always the center of the Aura and provides the highest EV as you experienced.
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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 03:17

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Is it based on 0.17? I see 0.17.xxx on CPO in ?V
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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 03:46

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

It's based on trunk from a few weeks ago, yes

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 01:41

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

I entered a new level and was slowed during 2 turns while attacking, is it intended? So far it looks the hardest god ever, I died with pretty OP character: you need luck to survive when you enter a new level and see 2 frogs, orc warrior with electro weapon, orc priest, 2 orc wizards and a couple of plain orcs. Give it "all stairs are sealed while there are enemies in view" IMHO, we don't have hard gods in crawl except that one who decided to kill you randomly sometimes.
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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 01:45

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Just to be clear, you're aware that benefits are planned but not implemented?

And why do you prefer stair sealing to optional rot? Simplicity?

The Aura not appearing on new level until you move is a known bug.

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 01:48

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

I saw my EV change depending on my position so at least some benefits were implemented.

Not really simplicity, with the way teleportation works players are really encouraged to stay near stairs and cure rot with XP if needed. So instead of fixing known problems of luring and kiting it can be made worse.

I see, thank you. I will wait for more changes then.
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Post Thursday, 22nd December 2016, 04:46

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

now that tele&haste wands are gone, you`re all just gonna love the god that provides ownage versions of both! ctele within aura, haste+mesmerize
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Post Friday, 28th August 2020, 20:01

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Bumping this now that cBlink is gone. Wundvrond at top piety would allow cTele *anywhere* within a 17 tile radius of the player's anchored soul, with the downside of being unable to teleport outside that region in any way. I`ve been pushing some developers to take another look at the diety as a home for problematic translocations.
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Post Friday, 28th August 2020, 23:37

Re: Wundvrond - tloc style deity

Is your old branch for this currently available online anywhere? It no longer appears to be on CPO, and I don't see a github link here.

I have some thoughts about this*, but I'd like to look at what you currently have before jumping in with a full critique.

Spoiler: show
* noise luring exploration pattern incentives are going to be a problem as-written

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