YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?


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Snake Sneak

Posts: 91

Joined: Saturday, 6th August 2016, 18:03

Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 17:22

YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Yo,
i lost an other good char, but i really can't get why.
Gotta say i'm not confident with chei nor transmutations, still not fully understand LRD power (which learning i postponed a lot, didn't cast once this game).
After cleaning Lair i tried orc but it was a mess: everything awakened unusually fast and lots orc sorcerers + a few orc warlords on the same screen got me close to death. I spent most of my cei appreciation there, Step From Time + tp works well but is pretty expensive when unluck forces u to cast multiple times.
Since i had a bad encounter with an OOD vault guard in mid dungeon (hardly killed) i postponed dungeon clearing. Statue form at low failure made me confident to try a few lvls on rune branches.
Snake:1 was hard but affordable. Went back when a small band of 2 sleeping naga fighters came on sight.
Shoals:1 was a little easier, but shoals:2 NOT. F**kin lack of MR. Back to snake.
Killed those figthers with caution, then Snake:2 looked easier. discovered 1/4 of the floor, found a lonely asleep Nagaraya in a fairly curvy tunnel and tried the backstab. When close to it he wakened up and stole my hp to red before i can realise what was goin on. Chei abilities was missing, blink didn't work and heh...

What did i fail in the char development?
Since 0.19 lost 2 lair floors, what i had to focus? Every place looked way too hard to me at this point..
I tried orc 2 times but chei doesn't allow fair escapes when things turn bad due to smites and para, unless u waste ur chei support..
Dunno, maybe an other god would've been easier (Dith?)... more stealth is usually easier time in orc, but i didn't roll any ring and early stopped training to get that statue online. But atm i want chei :P
Help!

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0 (tiles) character file.

113057 1311-octo the Spry (level 16, 0/116 HPs)
             Began as an Octopode Earth Elementalist on Nov 14, 2016.
             Was a Priest of Cheibriados.
             Slain by a nagaraja
             ... wielding a cursed -3 spear
              (5 damage)
             ... on level 2 of the Snake Pit.
             The game lasted 03:17:21 (35543 turns).

1311-octo the Spry (Octopode Earth Elementalist)   Turns: 35543, Time: 03:17:21

Health: 0/116      AC:  1    Str: 22    XL:     16   Next: 62%
Magic:  56/60      EV: 28    Int: 27    God:    Cheibriados [***...]
Gold:   1746       SH: 14    Dex: 30    Spells: 7 memorised, 1 level left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis .    b - +11 hand axe {pain, rN+ Dex+3}
rCold  x . .      Gourm    .    j - +0 buckler "Heonere" {rF+ rCorr}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    (helmet restricted)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    E - +6 amulet of reflection
rElec  .          Reflect  +    r - ring of magical power
rCorr  +          Harm     .    B - ring of magical power
MR     +....                    e - +4 ring of strength
Stlth  ++++++....               g - ring of wizardry
                                M - ring of magical power
                                w - ring of magical power
                                O - ring of fire
                                W - +4 ring of dexterity

@: lethally poisoned (0 -> -10), constricted, repel missiles, very slow
A: almost no armour, stealthy swim, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage
1, gelatinous body 1
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Renounce Religion


You were on level 2 of the Snake Pit.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was most pleased with you.
You were full.

You visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and saw 27 of its levels.

You collected 1746 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +2 dagger of draining
 b - the +11 hand axe of Sulphur (weapon) {pain, rN+ Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 x - a +1 broad axe of venom
 A - the +1 long sword "Lakhuniu" {slice, Str+5}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
 C - the +0 spear of Uskayaw's Reproof {speed, rC++ Str+3}
   (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon are significantly faster.
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   
   Cheibriados disapproves of the use of such an item.
 F - a +1 falchion of holy wrath
Missiles
 X - 5 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 h - a +3 buckler of reflection
 j - the +0 buckler "Heonere" (worn) {rF+ rCorr}
   (You acquired it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
Magical Staves
 y - an uncursed staff of earth
Rods
 H - a -3 rod of ignition (12/12)
   (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
Jewellery
 e - a +4 ring of strength (on tentacle)
 g - a ring of wizardry (on tentacle)
 r - a ring of magical power (left tentacle)
 w - a ring of magical power (on tentacle)
 B - a ring of magical power (right tentacle)
 E - a +6 amulet of reflection (around mantle)
 M - a ring of magical power (on tentacle)
 O - a ring of fire (on tentacle)
 T - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 W - a +4 ring of dexterity (on tentacle)
Wands
 l - a wand of acid (5/15)
 s - a wand of enslavement (13/24)
 u - a wand of iceblast (5/15)
 D - a wand of digging (4/24)
 J - a wand of teleportation (2/9)
 V - a wand of paralysis (5/24)
 Z - a wand of confusion (26/48)
Scrolls
 n - a scroll of recharging
 p - a scroll of magic mapping {unknown}
 q - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 K - 2 scrolls of brand weapon
 P - a scroll of silence {unknown}
Potions
 m - 2 potions of magic
 o - a potion of might
 t - 2 potions of brilliance
 z - a potion of ambrosia
 G - a potion of resistance
 L - 3 potions of invisibility
 N - a potion of agility
 Q - a potion of curing
Books
 v - a book of Geomancy   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Sandblast                    Earth                         1
    b - Passwall                     Transmutation/Earth           2
    c - Stone Arrow                  Conjuration/Earth             3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction   Earth                         5
 R - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    b - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    c - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    d - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
Miscellaneous
 d - a phial of floods
 f - a fan of gales
 i - a disc of storms
 S - 3 boxes of beasts
 U - a phantom mirror
Comestibles
 c - 11 bread rations
 I - 12 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 + Level 12,4 Fighting
 - Level 5,8 Axes
 + Level 15,2 Dodging
 - Level 9,4 Stealth
 - Level 5,9 Shields
 + Level 4,6 Spellcasting
 - Level 9,2 Transmutations
 + Level 1,2 Air Magic
 - Level 10,9 Earth Magic
 - Level 11,3 Invocations
 - Level 8,1 Evocations


You had one spell level left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       1%          1    None
b - Passwall              Tmut/Erth      ######....   1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      #####.       1%          3    ##.....
d - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      ######..     1%          4    ####...
e - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      ######...    9%          6    #######
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       4%          2    None
g - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ######....   1%          5    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:11
 Shoals (2/4) Lair:3        Snake (2/4) Lair:2        Slime (0/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:12       
   Elf: Orc:2       Vaults: D:13-14     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Gozag
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Annotations:
D:13 exclusion: door
Shoals:1 shield of reflection
Shoals:2 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear most types of armour.
You are very stealthy in the water. (Stealth+)
You are amphibious.
You can wear up to eight rings at the same time.
You can use your tentacles to constrict eight enemies at once.
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth+).
Your rubbery body absorbs attacks. (AC +1, EV +1)


Message History

Okay, then.
Blink to where?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor
The nagaraja's grasp on you weakens, but your attempt to escape fails.
As you read the scroll of blinking, it crumbles to dust.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick.
The nagaraja points at you and mumbles some strange words.
The bolt of poison misses you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The nagaraja constricts you.
Okay, then.
Throwing (i - inventory): X - 6 throwing nets (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - nagaraja
Aim: a nagaraja, wielding an enchanted spear and wearing a robe (moderately wounded, constricting you, fast)
You throw a throwing net. The throwing net hits the nagaraja. The nagaraja is caught in the net!
The nagaraja is moderately wounded.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick.
You die...

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   #.##.........##....#
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 #.........#....## ####
 #.....#...#.##..# ###.
.......#.....###.###...
.............# #.##..#.
............[#####..##.
...####........###..#..
.......###..##.....)#†.
.#  #..N@...####.#..#..
    #...#....###.#..##.
    #...##$......##..#.
    #### #..:###..##...
         ##..%.##..###.
          #..>.###...##
          #....# ##....
          ######  ###..
                    #..
                    ##.


You could see a nagaraja (caught).

Vanquished Creatures
  Donald (Shoals:1)
  A nagaraja (Snake:2)
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  The ghost of 2310-octo the Unseen, a journeyman OpEn of Nemelex Xobeh (Orc:1)
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:1)
  A fire dragon (Lair:6)
  A naga warrior (Snake:1)
  4 hydras
  An alligator snapping turtle (Shoals:2)
  A catoblepas (Lair:2)
  3 anacondas (Snake:1)
  Erica (D:8)
  2 merfolk avatars (Shoals:1)
  An ogre mage (Orc:2)
  A death knight (D:12)
  3 naga sharpshooters (Snake:1)
  Urug (Lair:5)
  2 shock serpents
  Nergalle (D:12)
  An unseen horror (D:11)
  4 sea snakes
  A naga ritualist (Snake:1)
  Pikel (D:7)
  5 harpies (Shoals:2)
  2 lindwurms (Lair:6)
  5 hill giants
  An orc knight (D:11)
  4 oklob plants
  5 mana vipers
  6 orc sorcerers
  2 ugly things
  A deep elf mage (D:12)
  3 cyclopes
  5 fauns
  Joseph (D:7)
  12 manticores
  4 salamanders
  A water nymph (Shoals:2)
  5 sirens
  21 black mambas
  A naga mage (Snake:1)
  4 molten gargoyles
  A gargoyle (D:11)
  7 spiny frogs
  4 rime drakes
  2 centaur skeletons
  9 komodo dragons
  2 wind drakes
  17 merfolk
  A troll (Orc:1)
  3 hornets
  2 two-headed ogres
  39 blink frogs
  5 snapping turtles
  10 dream sheep
  14 hippogriffs
  Sigmund (D:4)
  2 water elementals (Shoals:2)
  8 wyverns
  3 shadows
  A wraith (D:13)
  62 yaks
  5 basilisks
  2 vampire mosquitoes (D:9)
  3 wargs
  A mottled dragon (Lair:6)
  11 nagas
  The ghost of 1311-octo the Sneak, an amateur OpEE (D:4)
  4 hell hounds (Lair:6)
  14 water moccasins
  15 porcupines
  3 slaves (D:6)
  2 black bears
  4 sky beasts
  An eye of draining (D:12)
  25 orc warriors
  5 ice beasts
  2 necrophages
  13 ogres
  4 phantoms
  19 centaurs
  18 wolves
  20 crocodiles
  20 bullfrogs
  A wyvern zombie (D:13)
  4 scorpions
  25 killer bees
  3 howler monkeys (D:9)
  5 crimson imps
  3 bullfrog zombies
  5 lava snakes (Lair:6)
  3 centaur zombies
  4 jellies
  A quasit (D:11)
  5 bullfrog skeletons
  7 hounds
  33 orc wizards
  17 orc priests
  2 iguanas
  9 worker ants
  2 worker ant zombies
  4 gnolls (D:7)
  18 adders
  3 shadow imps
  5 oozes
  2 adder zombies
  3 adder skeletons
  3 worms
  A dart slug (D:2)
  8 leopard geckos
  72 orcs
  2 ball pythons (D:2)
  9 bats
  3 giant cockroaches
  6 goblins
  7 hobgoblins
  14 jackals
  11 kobolds
  9 quokkas
  A frilled lizard (D:1)
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:6)
  A leopard gecko zombie (D:4)
  A quokka skeleton (D:10)
  10 rats
  2 fungi
  2 plants
835 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  3 oklob plants (D:11)
  A manticore (Shoals:1)
  An orc wizard (D:12)
  An orc (D:12)
6 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hydra (Lair:6)
  A cyclops (D:11)
  A spiny frog (Lair:2)
  A hippogriff (Lair:6)
  A slave (D:6)
  A wolf (Lair:6)
  A bullfrog (Lair:2)
  An orc priest (D:6)
  A bush (D:6)
  A fire vortex (Lair:2)
  9 fungi
  15 plants
34 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 875 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | 1311-octo the Octopode Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 3/3
   309 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/17 MP: 5/5
   788 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 21/21 MP: 6/6
   812 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Passwall
   819 | D:1      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  1028 | D:2      | Found a faded altar of an unknown god.
  1133 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  1555 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 27/27 MP: 7/7
  2547 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 9/31 MP: 8/8
  2689 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  3326 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 36/36 MP: 9/9
  3417 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3444 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  3492 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Cheibriados the Contemplative
  3559 | D:4      | Noticed 1311-octo's ghost (amateur OpEE)
  3679 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  3689 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  3699 | D:4      | Killed Sigmund
  3699 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3699 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 27/41 MP: 10/10
  3735 | D:4      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
  3900 | D:4      | Got a pitted hand axe
  3901 | D:4      | Identified the +11 hand axe of Sulphur {pain, rN+ Dex+3} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
  4124 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4269 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Axes
  4275 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  4524 | D:5      | Reached * piety under Cheibriados
  4650 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 22/46 MP: 9/11
  5329 | D:7      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  6070 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  6427 | D:8      | Noticed Erica
  6841 | D:7      | Reached ** piety under Cheibriados
  7258 | D:8      | Killed Erica
  7258 | D:8      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  7258 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 25/51 MP: 12/12
  7786 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8010 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  8175 | D:9      | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
  8472 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 16/56 MP: 13/13
  8829 | D:8      | Reached *** piety under Cheibriados
  9309 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
  9309 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
  9309 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  9747 | D:6      | Noticed Pikel
  9759 | D:7      | Killed Pikel
 10522 | D:6      | Reached **** piety under Cheibriados
 10908 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [mutagenic meat]
 10909 | D:6      | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP) [mutagenic meat]
 10910 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You are resistant to hostile enchantments. (MR+) [mutagenic meat]
 10910 | D:6      | Gained mutation: Potions and wands are less effective at restoring your health. [potion of mutation]
 10910 | D:6      | Gained mutation: Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage. [potion of mutation]
 10953 | D:6      | Gained mutation: One of your tentacles bears a spike. [potion of mutation]
 10953 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in thin metallic scales. (AC +2) [potion of mutation]
 10954 | D:6      | Lost mutation: You are partially covered in thin metallic scales. (AC +2) [potion of mutation]
 10954 | D:6      | Lost mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [potion of mutation]
 11259 | D:4      | Killed 1311-octo's ghost
 11259 | D:4      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 11473 | D:9      | Lost mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP) [potion of cure mutation]
 11473 | D:9      | Lost mutation: Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage. [potion of cure mutation]
 11473 | D:9      | Lost mutation: One of your tentacles bears a spike. [potion of cure mutation]
 11473 | D:9      | Lost mutation: You are resistant to hostile enchantments. (MR+) [potion of cure mutation]
 11473 | D:9      | Lost mutation: Potions and wands are less effective at restoring your health. [potion of cure mutation]
 11512 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 11736 | D:9      | Reached ***** piety under Cheibriados
 11989 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 64/64 MP: 14/14
 12552 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 13036 | D:11     | Noticed an oklob plant
 13191 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 13311 | D:11     | Noticed a cyclops
 13319 | D:11     | Killed a cyclops
 13319 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 13825 | D:10     | Reached ****** piety under Cheibriados
 13915 | D:11     | Noticed an orc knight
 13915 | D:11     | Noticed an orc sorcerer
 13920 | D:11     | Noticed an orc sorcerer
 13920 | D:11     | Noticed an orc sorcerer
 13964 | D:11     | Noticed an oklob plant
 13964 | D:11     | Noticed an oklob plant
 14440 | D:11     | Noticed an oklob plant
 14442 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 14581 | D:12     | Noticed a deep elf mage
 14605 | D:12     | Killed a deep elf mage
 14619 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
 14643 | D:12     | Noticed a hill giant
 14876 | D:11     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 49/77 MP: 16/16
 15062 | D:12     | Noticed Nergalle
 15070 | D:12     | Killed Nergalle
 15192 | D:12     | Identified 2 scrolls of acquirement
 15194 | D:12     | Got a twisted buckler
 15200 | D:12     | Identified the +0 buckler "Heonere" {rF+ rCorr} (You acquired it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 15514 | D:13     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 15771 | D:12     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 15780 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15816 | D:13     | Got a bloodstained spear
 15821 | D:13     | Identified the +0 spear of Uskayaw's Reproof {speed, rC++ Str+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 16359 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 16569 | D:12     | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 17487 | D:12     | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 17612 | D:12     | Noticed a death knight
 18255 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 18547 | D:11     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 75/85 MP: 18/19
 18556 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 18787 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
 19858 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 19937 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form
 21211 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
 21241 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 21278 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 21698 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 95/95 MP: 21/21
 21976 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging
 23103 | Lair:5   | Noticed Urug
 23308 | Lair:5   | Killed Urug
 24140 | Lair:5   | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 24292 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 24763 | Lair:6   | Got a jewelled rapier
 24788 | Lair:6   | Identified the +10 rapier "Fiqeec Afuih" {vamp, rElec rPois Int+4 Dex-3} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 24841 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 24843 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 25215 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 25785 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 105/105 MP: 23/23
 26345 | Lair:6   | Found a large runed door.
 26346 | Lair:6   | Found a large runed door.
 27341 | D:12     | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 27521 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 27529 | Orc:1    | Noticed 2310-octo's ghost (journeyman OpEn)
 27736 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 14 in Dodging
 27741 | Orc:1    | Killed 2310-octo's ghost
 28030 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 28393 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 28431 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 28440 | Orc:2    | Noticed an orc warlord
 28442 | Orc:2    | Killed an orc warlord
 28443 | Orc:2    | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 5 turns
 29257 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 29606 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 29667 | Snake:1  | Got a scorched long sword
 29669 | Snake:1  | Identified the +1 long sword "Lakhuniu" {slice, Str+5} (You found it on level 1 of the Snake Pit)
 31242 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 31380 | Shoals:1 | Noticed Donald
 31696 | Shoals:1 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 114/114 MP: 24/24
 32853 | Shoals:1 | Killed Donald
 33464 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 33617 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Roxanne
 35022 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
 35434 | Snake:2  | Identified a -3 rod of ignition (12/12) (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
 35451 | Snake:2  | Noticed a nagaraja
 35456 | Snake:2  | Killed a nagaraja
 35463 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 35529 | Snake:2  | Noticed a nagaraja
 35543 | Snake:2  | HP: 5/116 [poisoned by a nagaraja (poison arrow)]
 35543 | Snake:2  | Slain by a nagaraja

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------+-----
Stealth        |        3  4     5  6  9                         |  9,4
Dodging        |        3     4  5     7  8 10 11    12 13 14 15 | 15,2
Earth Magic    |              4     5  6  7  8 10                | 10,9
Axes           |                    2  4  5                      |  5,8
Invocations    |                             4  6  8 10 11       | 11,3
Fighting       |                             2  5  6  8 10 11 12 | 12,4
Transmutations |                                   2  5  7  9    |  9,2
Shields        |                                   5             |  5,9
Evocations     |                                         2  6  8 |  8,1
Spellcasting   |                                               4 |  4,6
Air Magic      |                                               1 |  1,2

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    16 |       |       |       |       |       ||    16
       Constrict         |    23 |    30 |    36 |    90 |   146 |    32 ||   357
       Dagger            |    70 |    74 |     5 |    42 |   123 |    32 ||   346
       Tentacles         |     7 |    21 |    36 |   217 |   402 |   107 ||   790
       Falchion          |       |    19 |       |       |       |       ||    19
       Flail             |       |    15 |     7 |       |       |       ||    22
       Hand axe          |       |       |   150 |   484 |   760 |   190 ||  1584
       Kick              |       |       |       |     7 |       |       ||     7
       Broad axe         |       |       |       |       |    44 |       ||    44
       Long sword        |       |       |       |       |    12 |       ||    12
 Fire: Shortbow          |       |       |     7 |    33 |       |       ||    40
       Hunting sling     |       |       |       |    12 |     2 |       ||    14
Throw: Throwing net      |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 ||     4
 Cast: Sandblast         |     9 |     1 |       |       |     4 |       ||    14
       Passwall          |     1 |       |     4 |    25 |    25 |     6 ||    61
       Stone Arrow       |       |     4 |    10 |    31 |    88 |    24 ||   157
       Petrify           |       |       |       |    46 |    63 |    28 ||   137
       Statue Form       |       |       |       |       |    15 |     6 ||    21
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     4 |     3 ||     7
Invok: Step From Time    |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     2 ||     5
       Temporal Distorti |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Slouch            |       |       |       |       |     5 |     8 ||    13
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |    12 |    20 |     3 ||    38
       Box of beasts     |       |       |       |     5 |       |       ||     5
       Disc of storms    |       |       |       |       |     2 |     3 ||     5
       Phial of floods   |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Use: Potion            |     1 |       |     2 |    12 |     3 |     1 ||    19
       Scroll            |       |       |    15 |    13 |    14 |     6 ||    48
 Stab: Sleeping          |     9 |     8 |    12 |    18 |    53 |     9 ||   109
       Distracted        |       |     1 |       |     6 |     6 |     2 ||    15
       Petrified         |       |       |       |    37 |    75 |    47 ||   159
       Petrifying        |       |       |       |     6 |     8 |       ||    14
       Held in net/web   |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     6 |     1 |    11 |    24 |     7 ||    51
       Bread ration      |       |     1 |       |     1 |     2 |     1 ||     5
       Fruit             |       |       |     3 |     3 |       |     8 ||    14
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     5 |       ||     8
       Pizza             |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |       ||     3
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Armor: Skin              |     8 |     7 |    11 |     6 |    73 |    19 ||   124
Dodge: Dodged            |    49 |    60 |   168 |   521 |   864 |   232 ||  1894
       Deflected         |       |       |       |       |     5 |    11 ||    16
Block: Other             |       |       |       |    94 |     9 |    11 ||   114
       Reflection        |       |       |       |    22 |    30 |    31 ||    83
       Buckler           |       |       |       |    79 |   853 |   114 ||  1046
Rpst.: Falchion          |       |     3 |       |       |       |       ||     3
       Long sword        |       |       |       |       |     4 |       ||     4


Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 18:49

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

5.8 levels in axes meant you had offensive power of D:5 character. Use UC with Transmutations, it's especially great with Chei.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 19:08

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

uh, i wasn't sure a pain simple axe (no necro books around) was the good one to spend early game efforts.
It's just about weapon skills?
U said UC because of the statue form? Or does it fit any Op game because of constriction?

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Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 20:23

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Constriction damage is independent of using Unarmed Combat/sword/mace etc. Going UC with Chei is awesome because the +15 STR/DEX you get lets you have enourmous damage.

However, in regard to your original question "where did this char go wrong" I'd say when you pressed p/> over the cheibriados altar. Orc doesnt need to be hard for a chei-char. Just use slouch liberally.

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Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 21:25

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Use uac.

Pump Rmissiles to near max or max power (or get dmissile) before snake/shoals if they spawn.

Lrd is disgustingly strong vs anything without high AC and autokills most brittle enemies, use it with animate skeleton and imolation for bonus points. Breaking into the back door of a vault is also incredibly useful if you don't have an overwhelming desire to kill all the things. Spam the shit out of it.

Spam chei powers more, all of them
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 15th November 2016, 02:55

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

no melee with Chei is awful. Running away to recover MP is fundamental to playing a conjurer.
remove food

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Post Tuesday, 15th November 2016, 03:44

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

le_nerd wrote:Going UC with Chei is awesome because the +15 STR/DEX you get lets you have enourmous damage.
str and dex have exactly the same effect on unarmed combat that they do on weapons, unless the character is currently in blade hands, statue form, or dragon form

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Post Sunday, 20th November 2016, 11:56

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

neverEnough wrote:uh, i wasn't sure a pain simple axe (no necro books around) was the good one to spend early game efforts.
thats why UC is better, you don't have to worry about different weapon types, brands, you don't need to find good weapon to start training it
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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 12:58

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

UC with 5.8 skill would make this char actually more terrible, not less.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 13:07

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

With UC you're stuck with a bad weapon for a long time.
...MiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}
DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu
{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWr

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 13:35

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

duvessa wrote:
le_nerd wrote:Going UC with Chei is awesome because the +15 STR/DEX you get lets you have enourmous damage.
str and dex have exactly the same effect on unarmed combat that they do on weapons, unless the character is currently in blade hands, statue form, or dragon form



No.

Damage outputs of unarmed combat/statue form/dragon form are affected by STR, there is 0% effect of DEX. (In case of hydra form, it is affected by spell power also)

In terms of attacks, DEX only have effects on accuracy of attacks (which are very very small, 1 to-hit per 2 dex) and base damage of blade hands.


For transmuters (and *EVERY* characters except assassins/enchanters/mages), STR is always best option to give stat points on.


Here are relevant source codes:

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc#L1219
https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc#L1290
https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc#L1127
https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc#L494
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 17:20

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Damage outputs of unarmed combat/statue form/dragon form are affected by STR,

Just as with weapons.

there is 0% effect of DEX. (In case of hydra form, it is affected by spell power also)

Accuracy has an effect on damage output.

For transmuters (and *EVERY* characters except assassins/enchanters/mages), STR is always best option to give stat points on.

This is just your opinion, and while it depends on what we define as "better", it's likely to be far from true.


These prove his point - same effect, except mentioned forms.

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 17:49

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

stickyfingers wrote:UC with 5.8 skill would make this char actually more terrible, not less.
wrong

stats I used for fsim:
16 XL OpEE
Str:22 Int:27 Dex:30
piety: ***...
UC: 5,8
Axes: 5,8
Fighting: 12,4
Spellcasting: 4,6
Transmutations: 9,2
Earth magic: 10,9
Necromancy: 0

+11 pain hand axe vs death yak:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      9.4 |     35 |      88% |   8.3 |   101  |  0.99 |      8.2
Defending:     15.2 |     30 |      64% |   9.8 |   100  |  1.00 |      9.8


just UC (no forms) vs death yak:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      6.0 |     30 |      87% |   5.2 |    89  |  1.12 |      5.8
Defending:     14.9 |     30 |      64% |   9.6 |   100  |  1.00 |      9.6


UC+statue form vs death yak:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     23.6 |     72 |      88% |  21.0 |   134  |  0.75 |     15.7
Defending:      4.3 |     19 |      67% |   2.9 |   100  |  1.00 |      2.9


blade hands vs death yak:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     24.1 |     74 |      90% |  21.7 |    89  |  1.12 |     24.4
Defending:     15.1 |     30 |      64% |   9.7 |   100  |  1.00 |      9.7
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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 22:32

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

stickyfingers wrote:
Damage outputs of unarmed combat/statue form/dragon form are affected by STR,

Just as with weapons.

there is 0% effect of DEX. (In case of hydra form, it is affected by spell power also)

Accuracy has an effect on damage output.

For transmuters (and *EVERY* characters except assassins/enchanters/mages), STR is always best option to give stat points on.

This is just your opinion, and while it depends on what we define as "better", it's likely to be far from true.


These prove his point - same effect, except mentioned forms.



Effects of Dex on attack accuracy is really small.
Dex 10 gives 5 to-hit increase.
Str 10 gives 25~26% increase in base damage, which could be multiplied by fighting/weapon skill damage factor.
Comparing them is ridiculous.


Also, the source codes clearly do not prove that DEX has equal effect as STR on attacks. Fourth link is only about just the base damage of blade hands.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 22:56

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

papilio wrote:For transmuters (and *EVERY* characters except assassins/enchanters/mages), STR is always best option to give stat points on.
for transmuters Im taking Int on lvlups, until I find Chei, after that it doesn't matter what you will take, but still I continue to take Int, mixed with Str depending on species
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Post Monday, 21st November 2016, 23:13

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Eyesburn wrote:
papilio wrote:For transmuters (and *EVERY* characters except assassins/enchanters/mages), STR is always best option to give stat points on.
for transmuters Im taking Int on lvlups, until I find Chei, after that it doesn't matter what you will take, but still I continue to take Int, mixed with Str depending on species


Yup, INT is indeed a good option for transmuters. High INT gives earlier stable Statue/Dragon form.
But I prefer STR cause it affects the whole game throughout. Once you get <3~5% for your transmut spell failure, further INTs become not meaningful.

I was wrong in some of my word; giving stats on INT is better option for transmuters with low start INT and high start STR, like trolls without chei but who want to use statue form. (I failed to consider them at first because I mostly go with Chei with transmuters of low starting INT.. whew.)
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 11:20

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

papilio wrote:Effects of Dex on attack accuracy is really small.
Dex 10 gives 5 to-hit increase.

That's right. However, the statement "DEX has zero effect on damage output" is provably false.

Str 10 gives 25~26% increase in base damage, which could be multiplied by fighting/weapon skill damage factor.
Comparing them is ridiculous.

Nobody does compare STR and DEX' influence on damage output.

Also, the source codes clearly do not prove that DEX has equal effect as STR on attacks. Fourth link is only about just the base damage of blade hands.

That's right. It looks like you misunderstood what has been said here. The stats' effect on the melee damage output with a weapon is the same as it is with unarmed (except some forms). The STR's effect on damage is different than DEX' effect, and nobody denies that.

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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 18:27

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

-I heavily reccomend against Chei for Op of any sort. Op are already delicate, making it harder to escape and close distance is a death sentence. Generally when I do play Chei, and I have won twice with Chei, I want to be very very tough AND have an excellent ranged option. The ranged option is considerably more important than it may initially seem. As Chei it takes way too long to close distance and its even more dangerous to advance you LOS since you can't escape. If you are going statue form this is even worse. As an OpTr you almost have to go statue form in mid game and closing distance at Chei can be deadly. You can try doing a warper start if you really must do Chei, but I would still caution you against. All of this can be made to work. But OpXX of Chei has an incredibly small margin of error without controlled blink. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who did a 3 rune win on a Formicid of Chei. I made that character just for the heck of it but I made him a literal tank. He had 26 Axe and crossbow with an +9 Exec Axe and +10 Triple Xbow and 35/25/35 defense and like 35 str. He literally didn't move he just shot things with a frigging tank cannon and if they got close he chewed em up with axe. He was a pure win or die character, that was the whole point I wanted to see if he would just eventually die like many Chei characters. Its very hard to make an Op of any sort be like that and Transmuters require a lot of extra skill since they need to be good at melee and casting. So an OpTr together is terrible for Chei, not only is it extremely hard to get high enough defenses but all the things you would want to help with your inability to escape well will need even more skills (translocations) and books.

-For OpTr I think UC is your best option. First off Op offhand hit damage is based on UC and I believe they do their offhand hit even when you have a shield (I am assuming the tentacle slap hits you see are in fact that offhand attack which definitely procs with a shield) the OP offhand proc much more often than other species so this is a real concerns. Secondly OP need every bit of defense they can get. So you almost certainly will make use of statue form and having a shield in statue form helps and UC is basically the most damaging attack you can use with a shield.

-Stats are extremely difficult for an OpTr each one is very useful. Str is great for damage but as an Op, especially early game every smidgin of EV helps so dex is highly attractive. Int is nice for getting forms early. For a pure melee transmuter I would say you can actually sacrifice int, especially when you consider Op can quite often get multiple sources of wizardry. However if you want to also cast other spells then int is always good because of the extra spellpower and then the choice is pretty hard. Keep two things in mind you can eventually get a decent amount of stats from ring and dex starts to get steppeddown at 25 for its contribution to EV and secondly statue form and dragon form always hit hard with good UC+fighting even with crap strength, high STR can make you hit like a truck full of bears but you can always hit hard.

-Lastly transmuter is a poor start for Op IMO. If you are not trying to max Str (which Tr is bad for anyway) IE is a much better start. For Op specifically you basically want statue form (dragon can also work but I would say maturing enough defense on that takes a while and you will need to use statue form to transition anyway) so you need to find a book and having the Tr start won't help. IE gives Ozo Armor and this spell not only is amazing for Op in general but is castable in most forms too. Additionally Summon Ice beast is incredibly strong and can clear all of lair. Lastly if you do find the Book of changes IE will already train Ice Magic for Ice Form anyway and IMO Ice form is probably better than Blade Hands for Op since it gives armor and roughly similar damage. I have tried OpTr starts and although I have gotten a couple to statue form which is when I feel they start cruising I simply cannot justify actually using the background instead of IE for any other reason than novelty. IE is strictly better than Tr for Op is almost every sense. Now I currently have an OpFi that I purposely intended to go transmutations with and I currently have two runes with him so I am not saying IE is the only way (I wanted to try out pure Str) but if you are focusing on either being Int based or balanced (i.e. use pickable stats and even all three stats out) IE is the best IMO. Also I found book of frost early on that OpFi so even then I actually played him as a IE/Fi hybrid (I didn't nuke at all, I buffed armor and summoned and meleed).


For the most part you were at a point where you could have done well if you had UC at roughly 12 fighting at 8-10 and were not Chei. Maybe try Hepl with Battlemage that is very nice for a starting god for Op. Obviously not being chei means you need some more skills or need to shift how you stated something. But statue UC at those levels will be pretty reliable amounts of !!! hits at a speed of about 1.2. At XL 16 your battlemage of Hepl will get !! hits pretty regularly and will cast magma bolt. Switching from Chei to Hepl with BM is actually more damage not less. Being Chei in shoals is EXTREMELY dangerous. In statute form you defense are good but not great, definitely doable with good damage. 25Ac 25EV 14sh should be pretty good overall. If you weren't chei and weren't using a hand axe at skill 5. You couldn't get away with blink because of constriction. It looks like your transformation ended because you died to poison and statue form is immune to poison so it wasn't in effect. So basically you had 1 AC instead of 25-27 and got hit really frigging hard then you got poisoned and constricted and it killed you and prevented escape. This is basically in a nuthsell why you should not do chei on an Op. One mistake and you die. Possibly step from time would have saved you but your were not at that piety with only ***.

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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 18:34

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

I believe when people choose Chei, they don't do it to maximize their chance of winning, they have other goals in mind: speedrunning, fun, challenge, something unusual (kind of fun too) etc. I greatly enjoyed watching damage numbers with Chei statue form, for example ;)
Also it is optimal to have some form of ranged attack with Chei preferably throwing or some launcher.
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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 16:05

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

severen wrote:Generally when I do play Chei, and I have won twice with Chei, I want to be very very tough AND have an excellent ranged option
Excellent ranged option is not needed that much(but it is ok to have)

severen wrote:He literally didn't move he just shot things with a frigging tank cannon and if they got close he chewed em up with axe.
I won lots of Chei+UC+Statue with no ranged attack and with moving, just o-tab once you get strong enough (including FoTm^Chei with 15 runes)
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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 16:49

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Eyesburn wrote:
severen wrote:Generally when I do play Chei, and I have won twice with Chei, I want to be very very tough AND have an excellent ranged option
Excellent ranged option is not needed that much(but it is ok to have)

severen wrote:He literally didn't move he just shot things with a frigging tank cannon and if they got close he chewed em up with axe.
I won lots of Chei+UC+Statue with no ranged attack and with moving, just o-tab once you get strong enough (including FoTm^Chei with 15 runes)


Yeah in some offline games when chei first came out I had a few naga Tr like this. They work no doubt, but a Naga+chei+statue form move is like almost 3 aut. Every time you move they get 3 actions. If there is a far away torment capable thing and you move once you can take alot of damage even with rN+++ and statue extra torment resistance if they torment 3 times and this happens often enough. One of the great things about Chei is you can do most anything. If you have portal projectile and a triple xbow at max even the really nice hits of statue form really can't compare to simply shooting stuff when getting to that guy takes 10 turns. You could have killed that thing in three turns instead. I literally two shotted an Orb of Fire with that FoFi of Chei. Now granted on some other OOFs I missed a few times or had some bad rolls and it took 6 turns to kill it, but even so walking even twice on just normal Chei is 4 turns. So you know it can be close if we assume statue form kills the OOF in two hits (this is possible but with 20EV not actually a reliable assumption). Now add on the actual slow of statue form and moving two take 5 turns instead.

Basically the slower you move the greater the advantage of ranged combat. Or conversely (is that the right kind of verse?) the greater the advantage of lesser beckoning/transference. Keep in mind you played a FoTr of chei. You could wear body armor and you played the absolute best shield species. Playing an Op is much more dicey. If you move instead of shoot as Chei statue form you WILL take a lot of fire. Chei statue form is giving everything on screen 1.5 more turns than a "normal" player whenever you move, whenever you move its like you triple hasted everything during that time frame. Therefore you should minimize movement whenever possible. Is it necessary? Not always. But I would encourage people who play Chei and are having trouble with it to think in these terms.

Edit: The reason I am not going with the just tabstorm them to death, is that basically I believe this relies on luck. Crawl can and will eventually spawn a situation where you will get killed no matter how rough and tough your character is. If you give the guys on screen such a huge advanatage. Enough hellfire/torment/smiting will kill anything and the magnification of moving in chei/statueform is very significant. Never believe you can just take it. This is even more important for Chei characters that may not be inherently fast at getting tanky (like Naga or Fo).

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 17:08

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Thank u all for this good discussion. Whenever items generator will be friendly again i'll try your suggestions.
Still unclear to me, are Slouch damages calculated after speed modifiers? Does statue form improve damages from it? (also, an enemy buffed with haste should call slouchin out of me?)

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 18:24

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

neverEnough wrote:Thank u all for this good discussion. Whenever items generator will be friendly again i'll try your suggestions.
Still unclear to me, are Slouch damages calculated after speed modifiers? Does statue form improve damages from it? (also, an enemy buffed with haste should call slouchin out of me?)


This is from learndb:

Does about 4*(movement speed difference) damage. Naga versus hasted executioner means 4*(30-3) = 108 damage on average.

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 19:39

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

If there is a far away torment capable thing and you move once you can take alot of damage even with rN+++ and statue extra torment resistance if they torment 3 times and this happens often enough. One of the great things about Chei is you can do most anything. If you have portal projectile and a triple xbow at max even the really nice hits of statue form really can't compare to simply shooting stuff when getting to that guy takes 10 turns
Im well aware of what Chei can and can't do,

I didn't say I move towards torment capable thing, and ofc I will not move and let that guy take 10 turns on me (if it is tormentor then just one slouch is enough to kill it);
same for orbs of fire, I will not move towards it (there are other ways how you can make it to come in melee range), and Im not advising people to do it, Im just saying that you can win statuechei even without excellent ranged option (which is nice to have)
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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 22:53

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Eyesburn wrote:
If there is a far away torment capable thing and you move once you can take alot of damage even with rN+++ and statue extra torment resistance if they torment 3 times and this happens often enough. One of the great things about Chei is you can do most anything. If you have portal projectile and a triple xbow at max even the really nice hits of statue form really can't compare to simply shooting stuff when getting to that guy takes 10 turns
Im well aware of what Chei can and can't do,

I didn't say I move towards torment capable thing, and ofc I will not move and let that guy take 10 turns on me (if it is tormentor then just one slouch is enough to kill it);
same for orbs of fire, I will not move towards it (there are other ways how you can make it to come in melee range), and Im not advising people to do it, Im just saying that you can win statuechei even without excellent ranged option (which is nice to have)


Yes its not impossible, but has a very small margin of error due to the magnifying effect, each move you make needs to be well thought. An incorrect move on Cheistatue punishes far worse than other things. So its easier for people to develop a good ranged attack when they are struggling with chei. I think VeryAngryFelid used the word "optimal" in reference to this and perhaps that is a poorly chosen word as one could argue in a 3 rune game it is not optimal to invest in a ranged skill if you are confident you can do your movement reliably in a way that will minimize the magnified danger. On the other hand developing a strong ranged option allows for extra tactics that can work well on maps that are more open etc and one could argue it is therefore "optimal". I dunno and I don't think it matters. Personally I am not all that comfortable with larger margin of error on pure melee Chei. Its easily possible to be someone with multiple wins under your belt and not feel comfortable with that margin of error. This of course also heavily depends on playstyle preference as well.

In my example I didn't say one would just move continously towards a tormentor that is, say, 6 tiles away. Because that is not 3 torments that could be 15 torments for the worst case of a naga+chei+statue and is generally just a stupid thing to do anyway. I specifically said one move because it is easily plausible to believe that you can easily get caught in a situation where you need to reposition into some safer/smarter position and even this one minor reposition is much more major for a chei person. For a naga+statue+chei this one move "error" can be made up for since you kill fast and have 20%+ hp and extra AC and torment resistance etc. Even the worst case of getting tormented three times would still leave quite a substanial amount of HP. But if you are a person who even only somewhat often gets caught out in situations where it takes two or heaven forbid three moves away from a "good" position then pure melee Chei is going to be really rough for you(depending on exactly how slow you are). Shooting stuff instead is not necessarily the optimal playstyle since not getting in that position instead is better. But if you have the option to shoot stuff that situation may not even be that dangerous. By having a strong ranged option you turn some rather bad situations into manageable or even easy situations. I prefer to have more safe options rather than rely on always doing things correctly. But this does not mean its impossible to do stuff well enough to get pure melee statue Chei to work. I was watching a guy the other night do his first win, it was actually 15 runes as his first win he was a GrFi of TSO. He did Tomb last and had never been there. He won tombs. But had he been Chei instead of TSO he probably would have died. There were at least a couple cases where he had to escape back away from multiple greater mummies. Of course the answer for playing Chei is don't get caught out with 4 greater mummies in your LOS or use controlled blink since you have +15 int or whatever. A player with 20 15 rune wins under their might have been fine if we transferred over the same base character to a Chei worshipper. Yes sure, its possible. But the point still stands Chei very much punishes you if you get caught out like that especially on certain map configurations. This is probably one the reasons the OP had such significant trouble in Shoals, its extremely tricky to try to be pure melee in shoals AND get them to come to you in a safe manner and if you don't do that and just get a ton of merfolk/sirens etc surrounding you you can get super fucked and have to blow a teleport or just plain die if the wrong thing procs on you like bad throwing net rolls or whatever.

It is not required to have ranged as Chei. You are not "doing it wrong" (at least idon't think so) if you do Chei without ranged. But if you find you die often with Chei I would suggest trying to develop a strong ranged + melee attack(or maybe pure ranged with tanky defense). The other option is to develop excellent and very consistent movement decisions, but while this is something that is valuable to pick up no matter what, I am not sure that Chei is the best way to learn this for many although for some people this may very well be the case. And even having said this I still doubt Op statuechei is a great idea as pure melee (unless you had just some super effing amazing ring drops then all bets are off). I am sure some great players can do it and probably have done it. But man, seriously.

Finally this is related but somewhat tangential I seriously doubt Chei can ever match up to the raw damage of a finessed statue form. Finesse is literally double damage. +15 str absolutely does not double your statue form damage. Obviously the other stats do various other things and there is slouch/step from time so this is not a fair comparison. But seriously Chei is not really doing as much as some people may think. Okawaru is considerably more damage for Tr if we are solely considering killing stuff with your hands/tentacles/claws/bladehands and has no effect that adds danger to your playstyle. This is especially true when the Tr is lower level and Heroism skill boost is adding 50%+ to UC and dodge and shield (i.e. 10 to 15). Chei is not actually best used for damage but because he adds other things like dex for EV and enough str+int together to be able to cast in armor. For an Op specifically one of the nice possibilities about Chei, being able to cast spells in heavier armor and also still have good EV, is pointless since you can't wear armor. An OpTr of Chei needs to understand you are not making the ultimate melee powerhouse, not taking Okawaru is definitely an offensive downgrade and early on the defense is probably on par when you consider heroism boosts dodge (not later on though). You would take Chei to be a powerful hybrid that still has high values even though hybridized. Or you might do it for fun too. Zin can give you +9 to all stats on demand with vitalisation. So if you are taking Chei because of the +15 to all stats, realize that you are getting a massively dangerous slow for only a +6 to all stats gain over a easily comparable option and Zin is a top-tier extended game god as well. Zin's sancutary is also at least as powerful of a "save your ass move" as Step From Time but Zin does not penalize you with a hinderance dangerous enough to make you highly likely to need to use it.

Chei is nice and is an interesting playthrough but it is by absolutely no means a powerhouse compared to other gods even when you take the slow away. With the slow Chei is not that good. All you have to do is compare it with Zin to see this. It is winnable and you can make a strong character of various sorts. If you want a challenge play Chei as pure melee, if you can win it you are probably pretty darn good at playing your positions/movements right. If you want an easier time of it probably pick up ranged. If you want your character to be the absolute strongest it can be then, outside of certain setups, there are probably better options although Chei is fine. Any character that was strong as Chei can be almost as strong with Zin and also not be slow and immune to mutations and have the best life saving power in the game and be able to turn things into pillars of salt and resist hellforce and be immune to confusion/rot/stat drain. Losing the slow alone is easily worth the +6 stat difference and when you add the other things on top its pretty easy to say that Zin is just plain stronger. Even the invocations required for Zin is moot because Chei needs pretty high invo to get step from time castable (which IMO you should do). Although of course there are exceptions to this such as demonspawn, they are stuck with chei if you need large stat boosts for some reason.

So its very simple if you are having trouble with Chei. Don't do Chei. You should only do Chei if you know what you are doing or you just think it would be fun. This is why I did a FoFi of chei; it was novel and interesting to play something with the absolute worst options for escape. Is Chei a challenge game? Not exactly, you can turn out pretty strong if you are normally cautious and are playing certain setups. I don't think my FoFi of Chei 3 rune win was that hard actually. But Chei is not a straight up simple as pie powerful helper like Okawaru nor is he actually that powerful in comparison to certain top-tier choices unless you are purposely running something that just desparately needs all those stats. I currently have an Octopode using transmutation that two shotted an Orb of Fire in Dragon form (str at 40 20/20 UC/fighting) and one shotted golden dragons a few time; he isn't Chei. Even if he was chei and the +15 str had made that into a one shot using finesse instead would still have killed in the same time frame AND would still not be slow AND it wouldn't have helped on those Golden dragon one shots. So even though I would not have been able to kill that OOF any faster, if I went chei I would have to be as optimal as possible in getting that OOF to me, and somehow minimize LOS to avoid mutations etc. In this case though I was actually Hepl and I just teleported it to me easy peasy and then killed it before it did anything. But I could have killed it as pure melee Chei no question.

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 23:07

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

severen wrote:I think VeryAngryFelid used the word "optimal" in reference to this and perhaps that is a poorly chosen word as one could argue in a 3 rune game it is not optimal to invest in a ranged skill if you are confident you can do your movement reliably in a way that will minimize the magnified danger. On the other hand developing a strong ranged option allows for extra tactics that can work well on maps that are more open etc and one could argue it is therefore "optimal". I dunno and I don't think it matters. Personally I am not all that comfortable with larger margin of error on pure melee Chei. Its easily possible to be someone with multiple wins under your belt and not feel comfortable with that margin of error. This of course also heavily depends on playstyle preference as well.


Optimal is correct word. It is suboptimal to train Armour/Dodging/Fighting etc. above 15 when instead you can have javelins at min delay with Throwing 18 and Chei. It is easy to prove that you have enough XP for that and even more in 3 rune game provided you clear every floor including Elf and Crypt (yes, it's optimal too except for Hall of Blades). It is impossible to be sure you would not need to move because Zot 5 exists.
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Post Thursday, 24th November 2016, 02:53

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

severen wrote:
neverEnough wrote:Thank u all for this good discussion. Whenever items generator will be friendly again i'll try your suggestions.
Still unclear to me, are Slouch damages calculated after speed modifiers? Does statue form improve damages from it? (also, an enemy buffed with haste should call slouchin out of me?)


This is from learndb:

Does about 4*(movement speed difference) damage. Naga versus hasted executioner means 4*(30-3) = 108 damage on average.


Ok my last weeks on petrify ain't a good idea with chei :roll:

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Post Thursday, 24th November 2016, 09:45

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

I was all set to jump in with advice after reading OP, and then found out that the thread has already been completely swarmed. Anyways, some simple basics which are probably already covered, but hopefully in a helpful non-flame war tone:

When going statue form (which is an amazing choice for octopodes, of course), you probably want to use unarmed. It isn't required, but it's definitely the strongest melee attack you can use when in statue form. You were lethally poisoned when you died, and statue form would have made you completely immune to it. You should have been using it for this fight - it's perfectly fine to cast it at 9% fail. In fact if I see what appears to be a tough group of monsters up ahead, and my statue form is at 30% fail, that's when I quaff a potion of brilliance to cheat myself access to statue form for that tough fight (you had two potions of brilliance).

Side point - With Chei and statue form, it's actually acceptable to fight with unarmed and zero skill. No joke, try it yourself in wiz mode some time. The raw stats and statue form bonuses will give you good damage output even with no skill. I've done this on EE backgrounds who only picked up melee after statue form was castable. Of course, you'll want to start putting all your experience into unarmed right away, those first 5-10 levels will make a huge difference (and help prevent you from attacking at 15 aut speed).

Also I wouldn't use a ring of fire when you're already resistant to fire, and have no resistance to cold, and aren't casting fire spells. You'd be better off with no ring in that slot at all.

In summary: When you have statue form castable use it (especially when dying to poison), use unarmed with statue form, and being vulnerable to cold is a bad idea in 99.8% of cases.

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Post Thursday, 24th November 2016, 22:01

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

tasonir wrote:When going statue form (which is an amazing choice for octopodes, of course), you probably want to use unarmed. It isn't required, but it's definitely the strongest melee attack you can use when in statue form. You were lethally poisoned when you died, and statue form would have made you completely immune to it. You should have been using it for this fight - it's perfectly fine to cast it at 9% fail. In fact if I see what appears to be a tough group of monsters up ahead, and my statue form is at 30% fail, that's when I quaff a potion of brilliance to cheat myself access to statue form for that tough fight (you had two potions of brilliance).


It was my very first game where it become castable, tbh i played mostly for it since lucky book finds (i still think low stealth was a big mistake, should've preferably delayed statue). I've found EE branches into transmuter pretty smooth, and i wasn't aware of it till then.
U are right, even if backstabbin a nagaraya at such point may be debatable, i had to turn into statue. I didn't even consider it, since statue makes u slower i thought the chances to wake up would increase (still not sure it works like that). When the creep attacked i was kinda scared, my hp dropped in a human-turn, constriction without AC is painful especially with chei. Learnt a lesson.


tasonir wrote:
Side point - With Chei and statue form, it's actually acceptable to fight with unarmed and zero skill. No joke, try it yourself in wiz mode some time. The raw stats and statue form bonuses will give you good damage output even with no skill. I've done this on EE backgrounds who only picked up melee after statue form was castable. Of course, you'll want to start putting all your experience into unarmed right away, those first 5-10 levels will make a huge difference (and help prevent you from attacking at 15 aut speed).


Ye i think i'll go this way next. As for now i find Op weak enough to not avoid skillin any good weapon u may find around. Pumpin UC at start would lead to less HP (fightin), less stealth, less dodgin or less magics without a proper gain, compared to .. say an electrocution weapon. When found the proper book,learn statue (i avoid learning spellcasting until Lair), then skilling UC may be ok.
Thanks for the advices

tasonir wrote:Also I wouldn't use a ring of fire when you're already resistant to fire, and have no resistance to cold, and aren't casting fire spells. You'd be better off with no ring in that slot at all.


i'm used to swapping, i just forgot about it

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Post Friday, 25th November 2016, 03:16

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

It's getting better thanks to suggestions.
This time didn't find statue form, still an OpEE^Chei there, but i had my first long game relying on ice form ( awesome in swamp) and blade hands. They are SO powerful!

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0 (tiles) character file.

201730 2411-octo the Unseen (level 18, -4/130 HPs)
             Began as an Octopode Earth Elementalist on Nov 24, 2016.
             Was a High Priest of Cheibriados.
             Shot with a bolt by a yaktaur (16 damage)
             ... led by a yaktaur captain
             ... on level 2 of the Vaults on Nov 25, 2016.
             The game lasted 03:58:44 (34627 turns).

2411-octo the Unseen (Octopode Earth Elementalist) Turns: 34627, Time: 03:58:44

Health: -4/130     AC:  8    Str: 24    XL:     18   Next: 55%
Magic:  13/38      EV: 39    Int: 32    God:    Cheibriados [*****.]
Gold:   2492       SH:  7    Dex: 28    Spells: 9 memorised, 4 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    a - +3 dagger (elec)
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    n - +0 buckler
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    N - +2 hat {SInv}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    i - amulet "Qethiolu" {RegenMP Slay+2}
rElec  .          Reflect  .    K - +3 ring of evasion
rCorr  .          Harm     .    u - ring of poison resistance
MR     +....                    w - ring of magical power
Stlth  +++++++++.               l - +3 ring of evasion
                                g - +5 ring of protection
                                E - ring of protection from fire
                                L - +4 ring of evasion
                                e - ring of stealth

@: marked, very slow
A: almost no armour, stealthy swim, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage
1, gelatinous body 1
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce Religion
}: 1/15 runes: decaying


You were on level 2 of the Vaults.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and saw 31 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth and Sewer.

You collected 3654 gold pieces.
You spent 1162 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +3 dagger of electrocution (weapon)
 d - a +2 falchion of holy wrath
 f - a +4 eveningstar
 r - a +0 hand crossbow of velocity
Missiles
 k - a throwing net (quivered)
 q - 805 bolts
Armour
 n - a +0 buckler (worn)
 N - a +2 hat of see invisible (worn)
Jewellery
 e - a ring of stealth (on tentacle)
 g - a +5 ring of protection (on tentacle)
 h - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 i - the amulet "Qethiolu" (around mantle) {RegenMP Slay+2}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of magic regeneration]
   
   It increases your magic regeneration.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
 l - a +3 ring of evasion (on tentacle)
 t - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 u - a ring of poison resistance (right tentacle)
 w - a ring of magical power (on tentacle)
 x - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 C - an uncursed ring of fire
 E - a ring of protection from fire (on tentacle)
 F - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 K - a +3 ring of evasion (left tentacle)
 L - a +4 ring of evasion (on tentacle)
Wands
 b - a wand of iceblast (6/15)
 z - a wand of enslavement (11/24)
 J - a wand of paralysis (6/24)
 M - a wand of confusion (20/48)
 S - a wand of lightning (2/15)
 X - a wand of teleportation (3/9)
Scrolls
 j - 4 scrolls of immolation
 o - 10 scrolls of remove curse
 y - a scroll of teleportation
 D - 4 scrolls of identify
 I - a scroll of fear
 P - 2 scrolls of recharging
 Q - 2 scrolls of summoning
Potions
 m - a potion of resistance
 p - 2 potions of lignification
 s - 7 potions of might
 A - 3 potions of brilliance
 G - 2 potions of magic
 O - a potion of heal wounds
 R - 2 potions of invisibility
 W - 10 potions of curing
 Y - a potion of ambrosia
Books
 v - the Disquisition on Dislocated Glamour
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Apportation                  Translocation                 1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Dazzling Spray               Conjuration/Hexes             3
    d - Summon Guardian Golem        Hexes/Summoning               3
    e - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    f - Dispersal                    Translocation                 6
 B - the Papyrus of Entrancing Feathers
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Tukima's Dance               Hexes                         3
    d - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
    e - Tornado                      Air                           9
 T - a book of Misfortune   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         1
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    f - Yara's Violent Unravelling   Hexes/Transmutation           5
Miscellaneous
 Z - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 c - 13 bread rations
 H - 2 slices of pizza
 V - 15 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 13,6 Fighting
 - Level 3,9 Short Blades
 - Level 13,9 Dodging
 - Level 15,0 Stealth
 - Level 4,4 Shields
 - Level 13,1 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 7,8 Spellcasting
 - Level 4,3 Charms
 - Level 1,7 Translocations
 - Level 8,3 Transmutations
 - Level 3,3 Air Magic
 - Level 10,7 Earth Magic
 - Level 10,2 Invocations
 + Level 8,4 Evocations


You had 4 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
b - Passwall              Tmut/Erth      ######....   1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      #####.       1%          3    None
d - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      ######..     1%          4    None
e - Blade Hands           Tmut           ######....   4%          5    ####...
f - Ice Form              Ice/Tmut       #####...     10%         4    None
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #####.       1%          2    None
h - Apportation           Tloc           ###.......   1%          1    None
i - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ######....   1%          5    ####...
j - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          2%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:9
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4        Snake (1/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (2/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       
 Crypt: Vaults:2-3 

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:9 [   Orc:1 *   Orc:2 %**=

Portals:
Trove: D:11 (give +8 demon trident)

Annotations:
D:6 1 runed door, exclusion: 2 doors
Lair:5 catoblepas
Lair:6 exclusion: 3 oklob plants
Swamp:2 Frances
Snake:1 Louise


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear most types of armour.
You are very stealthy in the water. (Stealth+)
You are amphibious.
You can wear up to eight rings at the same time.
You can use your tentacles to constrict eight enemies at once.
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth+).
Your rubbery body absorbs attacks. (AC +1, EV +1)


Message History

The bolt of lightning misses you. The bolt of lightning hits you! The bolt of lightning hits the yaktaur.
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The two-headed ogre moves out of view.
The yaktaur unwields an uncursed arbalest.
The yaktaur hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The slime creature misses you. The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow misses you.
The arrow barely misses the slime creature.
The ogre mage hits you but does no damage.
The slime creature misses you.
The yaktaur captain unwields an uncursed arbalest of velocity.
You block the yaktaur captain's attack.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You see here an arrow.
You step out of the flow of time. You return to the normal time flow. You feel somewhat more hungry.
Cheibriados lowers the support of your attributes as your movement quickens.
The yaktaur wields an uncursed arbalest.
The yaktaur shoots a bolt. The bolt hits you!
You die...

       #########+###
       #O..........#
       #.Oc.#.#....#
       #c.....(...(#
       #..).#.#(...#
       #......(...(#
       #JJ..#.#(...#
       #.C....@...(#
       #.u..#.#....#
       #.o....O....#
       #....#.#....#
#......#O..........#
+......######'######
#.................
#..................
#...................
#.....u.............


You could see a yaktaur captain, a cyan ugly thing, an ettin, 2 slime creatures,
an ogre mage, a yaktaur, 2 two-headed ogres and an orc wizard.

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (Lair:2)
  A storm dragon (Vaults:1)
  A thorn hunter (Swamp:4)
  A fire giant (D:15)
  6 vault wardens
  An orc warlord (Orc:1)
  3 ironheart preservers (Vaults:2)
  A very ugly thing (Swamp:4)
  A stone giant (Orc:2)
  Snorg (Lair:6)
  A minotaur (Lab)
  A yaktaur captain (Vaults:1)
  2 ogre magi (Vaults:1)
  8 vault guards
  Josephine (Orc:1)
  Fannar (Lair:1)
  A great orb of eyes (Vaults:1)
  27 hydras
  A ghost crab (Swamp:3)
  6 centaur warriors
  A death knight (D:14)
  Erica (Lair:1)
  3 alligators
  A tengu warrior (D:14)
  A spriggan berserker (Swamp:4)
  Urug (Orc:1)
  4 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  3 deep elf knights
  A skeletal warrior (D:14)
  2 spriggan druids
  A glowing orange brain (Vaults:2)
  A deep troll (Vaults:2)
  7 hill giants
  9 swamp dragons
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:4)
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  An unseen horror (Vaults:1)
  5 wizards
  5 deep elf archers
  5 harpies (Vaults:1)
  3 ironbrand convokers
  A necromancer (D:14)
  9 orc knights
  A wolf spider (Vaults:1)
  26 ugly things
  A manticore (D:13)
  4 cyclopes
  10 deep elf magi
  5 orc sorcerers (Orc:2)
  Maurice (D:13)
  9 elephants
  8 black mambas
  A vault sentinel (Vaults:2)
  2 centaur zombies
  18 spiny frogs
  2 rime drakes
  10 komodo dragons
  22 yaktaurs
  2 freezing wraiths
  A kobold demonologist (D:14)
  3 meliai (D:15)
  4 trolls
  3 polar bears
  5 tyrant leeches
  A wolf spider simulacrum (D:14)
  5 two-headed ogres
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  2 bog bodies
  19 hornets
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (D:12)
  37 slime creatures
  A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  Grinder (D:5)
  6 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  19 blink frogs
  Sigmund (D:5)
  12 hippogriffs
  A centaur simulacrum (D:15)
  7 wraiths
  6 shadows
  4 wyverns
  18 spriggans
  A vampire (D:13)
  Eustachio (D:5)
  3 hogs (D:7)
  6 basilisks
  18 humans
  2 hungry ghosts (D:13)
  2 boggarts (Lair:6)
  A steam dragon (Lair:4)
  61 yaks
  21 vampire mosquitoes
  21 swamp worms
  3 nagas (Lair:4)
  4 wargs
  6 insubstantial wisps
  2 mottled dragons
  7 porcupines
  Duvessa (D:5)
  10 water moccasins
  11 swamp drakes
  42 orc warriors
  2 sky beasts
  5 black bears
  5 ice beasts
  4 phantoms
  30 wolves
  2 necrophages
  An eye of draining (D:9)
  11 centaurs
  21 ogres
  12 crocodiles
  3 big kobolds
  17 bullfrogs
  Dowan (D:5)
  6 scorpions
  3 killer bees (D:11)
  2 wyvern skeletons
  A howler monkey (D:8)
  8 electric eels
  10 crimson imps
  A quasit (D:10)
  4 bullfrog zombies
  2 jellies
  14 hounds
  An iron imp (Orc:1)
  21 orc priests
  8 centaur skeletons
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:10)
  3 iguanas
  27 orc wizards
  6 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:7)
  3 hound zombies
  2 hound skeletons
  2 worker ant zombies (D:9)
  A gnoll (D:8)
  11 adders
  6 shadow imps
  A white imp (Orc:1)
  2 oozes
  2 worms
  An adder skeleton (D:9)
  6 dart slugs
  7 leopard geckos
  72 orcs
  4 bats
  8 giant cockroaches
  10 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  13 jackals
  6 quokkas
  5 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:9)
  30 kobolds
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:7)
  A leopard gecko zombie (D:5)
  A quokka skeleton (D:5)
  6 rats
  A plant (Lair:4)
1084 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A hydra (Swamp:4)
  A swamp dragon (Swamp:4)
  A bog body (Swamp:4)
3 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An alligator (Swamp:3)
  An unseen horror (D:12)
  An orc warrior (Orc:2)
  A swamp drake (Swamp:3)
  A wolf (Lair:6)
  An orc wizard (Orc:2)
  An orc (Orc:1)
  A kobold (D:11)
  22 fungi
  18 plants
48 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1135 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | 2411-octo the Octopode Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 3/3
   706 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
   706 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 7/18 MP: 1/5
   710 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Passwall
   888 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Stealth
  1144 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 23/23 MP: 6/6
  1666 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 27/28 MP: 7/7
  2513 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Stealth
  2513 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 26/34 MP: 8/8
  2828 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
  2828 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 25/41 MP: 9/9
  3096 | D:4      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  3102 | D:4      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  3272 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  3604 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3604 | D:5      | Noticed Eustachio
  3604 | D:5      | Noticed Sigmund
  3653 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  3675 | D:5      | Noticed Duvessa
  3716 | D:5      | Killed Grinder
  3716 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/46 MP: 10/10
  3741 | D:5      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
  3909 | D:5      | Killed Sigmund
  3909 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth
  3909 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  4002 | D:5      | Noticed Dowan
  4025 | D:5      | Killed Duvessa
  4025 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 48/54 MP: 11/11
  4029 | D:5      | Killed Dowan
  4140 | D:5      | Killed Eustachio
  4140 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth
  4197 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4206 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4370 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Cheibriados the Contemplative
  4571 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4660 | D:6      | Found a runed door.
  4731 | D:6      | Found a glowing drain.
  4766 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  4774 | Sewer    | Reached * piety under Cheibriados
  4841 | Sewer    | Learned a level 1 spell: Beastly Appendage
  4851 | Sewer    | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth
  4851 | Sewer    | Reached XP level 9. HP: 60/60 MP: 12/12
  4969 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  5003 | D:6      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  5003 | D:6      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  6233 | D:7      | Reached ** piety under Cheibriados
  6431 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth
  6588 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 68/68 MP: 2/13
  6686 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
  7091 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
  7240 | D:8      | Reached *** piety under Cheibriados
  7733 | D:9      | Found Kiask's Antique Armour Emporium.
  8226 | D:9      | Reached **** piety under Cheibriados
  8372 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8480 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8708 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  8956 | Lair:1   | Noticed a spiny frog
  8963 | Lair:1   | Killed a spiny frog
  8963 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  9069 | Lair:1   | Noticed a spiny frog
  9079 | Lair:1   | Killed a spiny frog
  9079 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 74/74 MP: 9/14
  9101 | Lair:1   | Noticed Erica
  9115 | Lair:1   | Noticed Fannar
  9301 | Lair:2   | Noticed Gastronok
  9615 | Lair:2   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
  9630 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands
  9638 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
  9930 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
  9947 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
  9947 | Lab      | Reached skill level 1 in Unarmed Combat
  9959 | Lab      | Identified the Disquisition on Dislocated Glamour
 10345 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 10681 | Lair:2   | Killed Gastronok
 10681 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 72/80 MP: 3/19
 10791 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form
 10943 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 10945 | Lair:2   | Reached ***** piety under Cheibriados
 11204 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 11388 | Lair:1   | Killed Fannar
 11388 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 11770 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
 11801 | Lair:1   | Killed Erica
 12904 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
 13252 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 13367 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 13539 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 13588 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 13683 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 88/88 MP: 22/22
 15048 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 15253 | Lair:6   | Noticed Snorg
 15418 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 15747 | Lair:6   | Killed Snorg
 15792 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
 16211 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 16214 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 28/97 MP: 14/25
 18733 | D:11     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 19438 | D:12     | Reached ****** piety under Cheibriados
 19510 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 19648 | D:12     | Identified the Papyrus of Entrancing Feathers
 20020 | D:13     | Noticed Maurice
 20027 | D:13     | Killed Maurice
 20077 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 20884 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 20929 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 21056 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 21166 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 21414 | Orc:2    | Found Sophuchi's Jewellery Shoppe.
 21422 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 76/105 MP: 15/26
 22080 | Orc:2    | Found Teucw's Food Shoppe.
 22163 | Orc:2    | Found Xomiagaf's General Store.
 22163 | Orc:2    | Found Elefreid's General Store.
 22193 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon for 82 gold pieces
 22203 | Orc:2    | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 195 gold pieces
 22530 | Orc:1    | Noticed Urug
 22538 | Orc:1    | Killed Urug
 22538 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
 22547 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 22684 | Orc:1    | Noticed Josephine
 22689 | Orc:1    | Killed Josephine
 22807 | Orc:1    | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 22934 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc warlord
 23196 | Orc:1    | Found Kaip Gipt's Assorted Antiques.
 23203 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 81 gold pieces
 23203 | Orc:1    | Bought 2 potions of might for 216 gold pieces
 23203 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of immolation for 94 gold pieces
 23325 | Orc:2    | Bought an uncursed amulet of harm for 390 gold pieces
 23342 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 82 gold pieces
 23353 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 23596 | D:12     | Got a crude crystal amulet
 23597 | D:12     | Identified the amulet "Qethiolu" {RegenMP Slay+2} (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 23875 | D:14     | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 24467 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 25219 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 25246 | D:15     | Paralysed by a hornet for 2 turns
 25548 | D:14     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 104/114 MP: 27/27
 25760 | D:15     | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth
 25781 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 26757 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 27356 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Frances
 27837 | Swamp:2  | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth
 27885 | Swamp:2  | Identified a -2 rod of ignition (11/11) (You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)
 29079 | Swamp:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Swamp
 29233 | Swamp:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 72/121 MP: 22/28
 29354 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 13 in Stealth
 30673 | Swamp:4  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 30903 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 30903 | Snake:1  | Noticed Louise
 31277 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 31517 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
 31825 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 14 in Stealth
 33247 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 118/129 MP: 29/29
 33489 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 33655 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 34149 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 34627 | Vaults:2 | Shot with a bolt by a yaktaur

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------+-----
Fighting       |  1        2     3     4  5  6     8  9 10 11 12 13    | 13,6
Stealth        |     3     4     5  6  8  9 10                12 14 15 | 15,0
Dodging        |           3        4  5  6  7        9 10 11 13       | 13,9
Earth Magic    |              4     5     6  7     8           9 10    | 10,7
Short Blades   |              1  2  3                                  |  3,9
Transmutations |                       2  4  6  8                      |  8,3
Invocations    |                             2  6        9 10          | 10,2
Spellcasting   |                                4  6  7                |  7,8
Unarmed Combat |                                4  6  8  9 11 12 13    | 13,1
Air Magic      |                                   3                   |  3,3
Translocations |                                   1                   |  1,7
Charms         |                                   1  4                |  4,3
Shields        |                                      1  4             |  4,4
Evocations     |                                                     8 |  8,4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    13 |       |       |    68 |   253 |   388 ||   722
       Constrict         |    24 |    24 |    40 |    58 |   130 |   120 ||   396
       Dagger            |    78 |    78 |   222 |   340 |   588 |   469 ||  1775
       Tentacles         |    16 |    14 |    44 |   130 |   291 |   312 ||   807
       Whip              |       |    29 |       |       |       |       ||    29
       Kick              |       |       |     2 |       |     5 |       ||     7
       Punch             |       |       |       |    15 |   102 |   154 ||   271
       Great sword       |       |       |       |     8 |       |       ||     8
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |     4 |       ||     4
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |     1 |     1 |       |       ||     2
       Hand crossbow     |       |       |       |       |    28 |    36 ||    64
Throw: Throwing net      |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
 Cast: Sandblast         |     4 |       |       |       |       |       ||     4
       Passwall          |       |       |     5 |     3 |    41 |     5 ||    54
       Stone Arrow       |       |       |     8 |     8 |    27 |    19 ||    62
       Petrify           |       |       |     6 |    39 |   102 |    90 ||   237
       Beastly Appendage |       |       |     3 |       |     4 |       ||     7
       Blade Hands       |       |       |       |     7 |    33 |    36 ||    76
       Apportation       |       |       |       |     3 |    13 |     9 ||    25
       Ice Form          |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     6 ||    10
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |     1 ||     3
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |       |       |    19 |     2 ||    21
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |     3 |    14 ||    17
Invok: Slouch            |       |       |       |     3 |    15 |    10 ||    28
       Temporal Distorti |       |       |       |       |    10 |     3 ||    13
       Step From Time    |       |       |       |       |     1 |     2 ||     3
       Bend Time         |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Abil: End Transformatio |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     6 |     1 |    12 |     8 ||    27
       Rod               |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Sack of spiders   |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
  Use: Scroll            |       |     4 |    11 |    18 |    16 |    13 ||    62
       Potion            |       |     1 |     4 |     4 |     6 |     2 ||    17
 Stab: Sleeping          |    13 |    12 |     8 |    30 |    64 |    25 ||   152
       Confused          |       |       |     2 |     1 |       |       ||     3
       Petrified         |       |       |     3 |    28 |    79 |    59 ||   169
       Distracted        |       |       |     3 |     2 |     8 |     9 ||    22
       Petrifying        |       |       |     1 |     3 |    13 |    18 ||    35
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |     6 |     8 |    15 |    16 |    11 ||    58
       Pizza             |       |       |     1 |       |     2 |     8 ||    11
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |     4 |     1 |     2 ||     7
       Fruit             |       |       |       |       |    12 |     2 ||    14
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Armor: Skin              |     6 |     1 |    36 |    29 |    58 |    53 ||   183
Dodge: Dodged            |    52 |    53 |   195 |   296 |   783 |  1026 ||  2405
       Deflected         |       |       |       |     1 |     7 |    20 ||    28
Block: Other             |     5 |    13 |    42 |    59 |    53 |       ||   172
       Reflection        |     1 |       |     2 |     2 |    14 |       ||    19
       Buckler           |       |       |       |       |   216 |   154 ||   370
Rpst.: Great sword       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2


It was damn powerful compared to many other chars at same level.
Swamp become easy when i noticed in swamp:4 that ice form was really good against hydras( :lol: ), instead of the unsafe petrify-and-pray which wasted LOTS tps from wand. Luckily there was no Learnaen, since i'm not sure i would be able to escape with Chei. Blade hands made shambling mangrove and thorn hunter ridicously easy!
Stairs down to snake lead to an open space surrounded by many dangers: some anacondas, some nagas and Louise with a shield. No room to get better position, had to leave.
Vaults was going well thx to blade hands but i got suddenly marked and was not able to reach upstairs. Tactical mistake, i already died once this way not long ago.
Thx again, hope to get one more YAVP soon :mrgreen:

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6356

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Friday, 25th November 2016, 04:14

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

neverEnough wrote:U are right, even if backstabbin a nagaraya at such point may be debatable, i had to turn into statue. I didn't even consider it, since statue makes u slower i thought the chances to wake up would increase (still not sure it works like that).

Jffi: Speed doesn't effect the monster's chances of waking up. They get a chance *per each one of your actions* of waking up, not relative to the length of time taken.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4409

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 25th November 2016, 15:18

Re: YASD: OpEE^Cei, 0.19 harder on exp?

Don't forget about consumables, you seem to underuse potions (based on action tables). Quaffing invisibility + agility might help (I suppose invisibility still decreases monster to-hit even when you are marked), read fear, summoning, teleport etc.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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neverEnough

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