Make Demigods appealing


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 40

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 04:08

Make Demigods appealing

Edit: Adjusted the mutation mechanic for increased appeal - instead of a random mutation (like Ds) they now choose
Edit: Changed "Grant them immunity to negative mutations and deformation and gain a random good mutation every three levels" to full mutation immunity and gain a mutation form the list

Issue: Demigod lack appeal between their low xp gain, specialized stat gain and bellow average aptitudes.

1 - Every 3 levels they gain +1 in all attributes instead of selecting one attribute to boost (hence they are jack of all trades - differently from other races that tend to excel in just one or two attributes)
2 - Start with Mutation Resistance III - they body cannot be tweaked by external forces
3 - At every 3 levels (starting in 3) they can select one mutation from the list bellow - "your divine nature manifest itself"- They receive 3 random choices from that list BUT if they have already the first version of a mutation, the next mutation in that line will always show up - So their evolution is more controlled that Demonspawn's
4 - Increase aptitudes all over the board (mostly to zero) but keep the low Experience gain
5 - They lose any innate HP or MP bonuses - after all those can be chosen

Tough skin 123
Magic Resistance 123
Heat Resistance 123
Cold Resistance 123
Robust 123
High MP 123
Clarity 1
Slow Metabolism 12
Repulsion field 123

---------------
With this they would fill the jack of all trades niche more interestingly than humans - because they would be inherently adept at anything and their stat would back that up - but they would still be bellow specialists in any field.
Given their "atheism" they need to be able to specialize in several tactics anyway (hence the need for higher aptitudes) but wouldn't have the specialist focus we see in most races.
Last edited by Deso on Saturday, 12th November 2016, 19:10, edited 4 times in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 04:44

Re: Make Demigods appealing

What do you mean by "appeal"? They are already well above median in power.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 3
nago, Sprucery, VeryAngryFelid
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4478

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 08:15

Re: Make Demigods appealing

duvessa wrote:What do you mean by "appeal"? They are already well above median in power.

These 'buff demigods' proposals come so often that I think the fact that Dg can't worship a god makes them quite unappealing to many players. So to make Dg fun to play for them it should become an OP species.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 09:14

Re: Make Demigods appealing

it's already OP though

Sar

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 09:18

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I think Demigods are really weak, to be honest, but I don't think it's a bad thing.

For this message the author Sar has received thanks:
vergil

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 724

Joined: Tuesday, 29th November 2011, 11:04

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 10:14

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I like the idea of a race with mutation affinity. I'd like if Demigods had a 75/25 chance to get a good/bad mutation from chunks/potions.

It's not a OP idea, requires very little coding, and makes Dg a little bit more interesting. The thing that makes Dg unattractive to new players is that getting cool god powers is a pretty bit dopamine boost. Dg lack that altogether, and mutations could be an ersatz of that.
"Damned, damned be the legions of the damned..."

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 746

Joined: Thursday, 5th December 2013, 04:01

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 17:51

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I think trying to make Demigods appeal to people who don't currently like them is a bad goal, personally. People who don't like them don't like them either because they think they're weak, or because they think gods are fun and therefor Dg are boring.

If you make them stronger to appeal to the first group, they're not more interesting, they're just strong. This thread shows there's already debate about whether they're weak in the first place, and I don't think buffing them solves anything.

If you make them more complex to appeal to the second group by adding unique mechanics, then I feel like at that point it's like you're creating a new god that can only be worshiped by one species. If you've got a mechanic complex and interesting enough to replace the interestingness that a good provides for people who like gods, then why not make it a new god instead of attaching it to demigods?

Ultimately, demigods kind of work now because the benefit they get is something very simple, that's interesting enough to appeal to some people without being interesting enough that it could have been a god.

For this message the author Quazifuji has received thanks: 8
archaeo, duvessa, Lasty, luckless, Sar, Shard1697, Sprucery, VeryAngryFelid

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 11th November 2016, 18:22

Re: Make Demigods appealing

giving Dg god powers makes no sense. not having god powers is the sole and entire point of Dg and is what makes it unique. if not having god powers is boring then Dg should just be removed

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
Deso, Sprucery

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 724

Joined: Tuesday, 29th November 2011, 11:04

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:03

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I still think a race that has positive affinity for mutations sounds cool. Could it be bolted on Demigods for a while to see how it works out in practice?
"Damned, damned be the legions of the damned..."
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 40

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:05

Re: Make Demigods appealing

duvessa wrote:giving Dg god powers makes no sense. not having god powers is the sole and entire point of Dg and is what makes it unique. if not having god powers is boring then Dg should just be removed

I agree would prefer any new species in their place as they currently are - if anything I would mix them and humans and delete one of them.

Well any other race can have no god - it can be done as a self imposed handicap with any race. Slow xp and low affinities is also sort of boring since their attribute advantage leads to attribute specialization (there are already several races fit for specializing in Str Dex or Int with a bigger skill pool and flashy god abilities).


Quazifuji wrote:I think trying to make Demigods appeal to people who don't currently like them is a bad goal, personally. People who don't like them don't like them either because they think they're weak, or because they think gods are fun and therefor Dg are boring.

If you make them stronger to appeal to the first group, they're not more interesting, they're just strong. This thread shows there's already debate about whether they're weak in the first place, and I don't think buffing them solves anything.

If you make them more complex to appeal to the second group by adding unique mechanics, then I feel like at that point it's like you're creating a new god that can only be worshiped by one species. If you've got a mechanic complex and interesting enough to replace the interestingness that a good provides for people who like gods, then why not make it a new god instead of attaching it to demigods?

Ultimately, demigods kind of work now because the benefit they get is something very simple, that's interesting enough to appeal to some people without being interesting enough that it could have been a god.

Well their early game isn't exciting (due low skill progression and no big synergy right of the character selection) and they lack the crazy change worshiping a god provides (and flashy tweaks).

1 - Well I nerfed their attribute specialization - they would get +1 in three attributes instead of +2 in one attribute every 3 levels - they would be distinct in a sort of unique way (jack of all trades attributes - actually about 60~80% of the very best in each category given their attribute headstart).
2 - Still you rise a good point on the god ability - currently Cheibriados provides an attribute boost way above Dg's advantage (in all fields) at the cost of speed/mobility i.e. it's more appealing to play any race with that god than a demigod.
3 - On the subject of uniqueness we could even get crazier - How about "Dg skill levels are equal to their XL (no skill point system)" such skill flexibility (but a slow progression at first) would have great appeal in the place of worshiping. Maybe humans could have a similar ability all their skills are set to half their XL if that would be higher than it's current rank.



kuniqs wrote:I like the idea of a race with mutation affinity. I'd like if Demigods had a 75/25 chance to get a good/bad mutation from chunks/potions.

It's not a OP idea, requires very little coding, and makes Dg a little bit more interesting. The thing that makes Dg unattractive to new players is that getting cool god powers is a pretty bit dopamine boost. Dg lack that altogether, and mutations could be an ersatz of that.

I've updated the mutation selection idea to be a choice they have in the place of the stat - since as per my proposal Dg don't get attribute choice every three levels.
Maybe DS could use a mechanic similar to that one you proposed (i.e. 50% of the time after they consume mutation potions or meat they get a demon spawn mutation, otherwise they roll as normal ) - thus they would become way more demoniac by mutating (and overly mutated limbs) - which is cool and fun.
Last edited by Deso on Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:08, edited 1 time in total.

Sar

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:06

Re: Make Demigods appealing

honestly it should be Jiyva's passive
User avatar

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 318

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 10:16

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:12

Re: Make Demigods appealing

kuniqs wrote:I like the idea of a race with mutation affinity. I'd like if Demigods had a 75/25 chance to get a good/bad mutation from chunks/potions.

It's not a OP idea, requires very little coding, and makes Dg a little bit more interesting. The thing that makes Dg unattractive to new players is that getting cool god powers is a pretty bit dopamine boost. Dg lack that altogether, and mutations could be an ersatz of that.


well the fundamental thing that makes mutations bad is that the bad mutations are way worse than the good mutations are good, so a small change like that would just make mut pots more of a newbie trap.
"No one should have two lives / Now you know my middle names are wrong and right / But baby there's no guidance / When random rules"
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: Toronto, Canada

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:47

Re: Make Demigods appealing

[quote="Deso"][/quote]

why are you talking like this
take it easy

For this message the author Arrhythmia has received thanks: 3
duvessa, Lasty, nago

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 00:56

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Deso wrote:Well any other race can have no god - it can be done as a self imposed handicap with any race.
Any other race can also quit when their HP goes below 20% to simulate the main drawback of being a deep elf, never drink potions to simulate the main drawback of being a mummy, skip 30% of their moves to simulate the main drawback of being a naga, or never train dodging to simulate the main drawback of being a centaur. A drawback being easy to self-impose says nothing about how interesting it is.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 3
nago, Shard1697, VeryAngryFelid

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 724

Joined: Tuesday, 29th November 2011, 11:04

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 01:12

Re: Make Demigods appealing

scorpionwarrior wrote:
kuniqs wrote:I like the idea of a race with mutation affinity. I'd like if Demigods had a 75/25 chance to get a good/bad mutation from chunks/potions.

It's not a OP idea, requires very little coding, and makes Dg a little bit more interesting. The thing that makes Dg unattractive to new players is that getting cool god powers is a pretty bit dopamine boost. Dg lack that altogether, and mutations could be an ersatz of that.


well the fundamental thing that makes mutations bad is that the bad mutations are way worse than the good mutations are good, so a small change like that would just make mut pots more of a newbie trap.


But it's newbies who dabble with mutations. Experienced players avoid them like a plague, not because good mutations aren't worth it, but that they avoid unecessary risks and can deal with challenges without good mutations. Eating sky beasts early is a good chance to gain bonus MR and AC, if you get something nasty just reroll. It's only a problem if you care about winrate, which new players don't.
"Damned, damned be the legions of the damned..."
User avatar

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 318

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 10:16

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 01:40

Re: Make Demigods appealing

kuniqs wrote:
scorpionwarrior wrote:
kuniqs wrote:I like the idea of a race with mutation affinity. I'd like if Demigods had a 75/25 chance to get a good/bad mutation from chunks/potions.

It's not a OP idea, requires very little coding, and makes Dg a little bit more interesting. The thing that makes Dg unattractive to new players is that getting cool god powers is a pretty bit dopamine boost. Dg lack that altogether, and mutations could be an ersatz of that.


well the fundamental thing that makes mutations bad is that the bad mutations are way worse than the good mutations are good, so a small change like that would just make mut pots more of a newbie trap.


But it's newbies who dabble with mutations.


Sure, but I think that's the wrong way to go with it. Do we want newbies playing Dg just for the +25% chance or whatever to get a "good" mutation?
"No one should have two lives / Now you know my middle names are wrong and right / But baby there's no guidance / When random rules"
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 40

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 01:43

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Arrhythmia wrote:
Deso wrote:


why are you talking like this

The quote windows have nearly the same format as regular text for me. Most forums have a different colored background in quote "frames". This felt particular confusing since i quoted 3 people in the same reply.



kuniqs wrote:But it's newbies who dabble with mutations. Experienced players avoid them like a plague, not because good mutations aren't worth it, but that they avoid unecessary risks and can deal with challenges without good mutations. Eating sky beasts early is a good chance to gain bonus MR and AC, if you get something nasty just reroll. It's only a problem if you care about winrate, which new players don't.

Well my proposal is making Demigods immune to mutation - but I think having more mutation on Demonspawns would be cool.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 01:46

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I think the problem with demigods is how amazingly bland they are.

I personally would enjoy demigods as hyped demonspawns that get more powerful mutations and have somewhat better attributes, but have to do without a god (and have no holy wrath problems).

Actually, I wanted to ask, who likes demigods, and why? ("likes" as "has fun playing them" rather than "thinks they are powerful").
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 02:01

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I like demigods because I believe all the gods currently in Crawl make the game less interesting, and I believe uneven aptitudes make the game less interesting.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago
User avatar

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 273

Joined: Monday, 23rd November 2015, 23:18

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 02:03

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Shtopit wrote:I think the problem with demigods is how amazingly bland they are.

I personally would enjoy demigods as hyped demonspawns that get more powerful mutations and have somewhat better attributes, but have to do without a god (and have no holy wrath problems).

Actually, I wanted to ask, who likes demigods, and why? ("likes" as "has fun playing them" rather than "thinks they are powerful").


I like Demigods for Transmuters. They cast well and fight well without having to sacrifice one. I do not like Demigods for anything else because they're worse than everyone else, at everything else. By the time they're better, you've won the game, I reckon.
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling


duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 02:42

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Shtopit wrote:Actually, I wanted to ask, who likes demigods, and why? ("likes" as "has fun playing them" rather than "thinks they are powerful").
Not as much as Fo/Ds, but I like them once in a while for the challenge of godless crawl(having to adapt to what RNG spawns for me more) and for having big stats.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1341

Joined: Monday, 24th October 2011, 06:13

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 04:05

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Demidogs / Caninus

You are a bunch of dogs broke free from the chains of the masters. At level one you are three dogs, and you gain a dog every three levels. When one demidog dies, you just have to wait around for a little bit like that ancestor god and he`ll come back. The dogs are all males (for mating)


Replaces demigods

No masters: you cannot worship because you are free of mind
Bite the hand: you often disarm those weapon wielding fuckers
Lyrical growl: you are loud
Jaws, claws & paws: You bark, and have no hands, and therefore just forget about spellcasting
Normal: Unlike cats, there is nothing magical about you, and you cannot figure out scrolls, potions, or anything but your teeth
Mating: I dunno ask nicolae, maybe minmay has ideas too
seattle washington. friends for life. mods hate on me and devs ignore my posts. creater of exoelfs and dc:pt

For this message the author twelwe has received thanks: 4
Cimanyd, nago, Sar, scorpionwarrior

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 325

Joined: Tuesday, 13th October 2015, 06:02

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 04:36

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Demi-God is all all about stats. Demi-God's need more stats. Adding Chei to me made Demi-God stats look bad.
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 40

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 05:24

Re: Make Demigods appealing

TonberryJam wrote:Demi-God is all all about stats. Demi-God's need more stats. Adding Chei to me made Demi-God stats look bad.

True... But Chei is kinda cool unlike demigods given several interesting gameplay options.

I'd say that halflings, humans and even high elves have a similar low appeal to demigods <--- but this is offtopic

Spider Stomper

Posts: 242

Joined: Friday, 17th April 2015, 16:22

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 06:10

Re: Make Demigods appealing

imo please nerf demigod so that you have to have the skill of a demigod to win one
User avatar

Slime Squisher

Posts: 354

Joined: Thursday, 14th April 2011, 17:28

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 06:34

Re: Make Demigods appealing

kuniqs wrote:But it's newbies who dabble with mutations. .


I'm going to stop you right there. That statement is categorically false.
It's boring people who play for score that avoid mutations like the plague. Some of us play this game for fun, and my idea of fun just so happens to be playing Ds who chug potions of mutation and gorge on mutagenic chunks.
infinitevox on akrasiac & berotato
Busy dying horrible deaths from chugging too many pots of Mutation.

For this message the author infinitevox has received thanks:
kuniqs

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 724

Joined: Tuesday, 29th November 2011, 11:04

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 07:18

Re: Make Demigods appealing

infinitevox wrote:
kuniqs wrote:But it's newbies who dabble with mutations. .


I'm going to stop you right there. That statement is categorically false.
It's boring people who play for score that avoid mutations like the plague. Some of us play this game for fun, and my idea of fun just so happens to be playing Ds who chug potions of mutation and gorge on mutagenic chunks.

I agree, except it's people who care about winrate, not score. I just avoid saying those things explicitly 'cause that shoots you into CYC faster than the speed of light :roll:
duvessa wrote:I like demigods because I believe all the gods currently in Crawl make the game less interesting, and I believe uneven aptitudes make the game less interesting.

Demigod is more interesting than human because it's like a human Chei worshipper, but Chei gives him less stats and permits normal movement delay and haste.
"Damned, damned be the legions of the damned..."

Halls Hopper

Posts: 85

Joined: Thursday, 26th May 2016, 13:22

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 08:59

Re: Make Demigods appealing

How about at creation a damigod chooses the god who spawned them and that mods their start with abilities/stat/aptitudes. The child should have something from their parent.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 11:46

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Devs have said that they will not add more options to character creation.

Also, again, the whole point of demigods is that you do not get the benefit of god abilities with them. Anything that adds god interactions to them is running counter to the reason they exist.

For this message the author Shard1697 has received thanks:
duvessa

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 15:53

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Ideas like these have come up many times on the forums if you're curious why they aren't adopted or why people like demigods as they are, take a look back at the old threads.

For this message the author Lasty has received thanks: 2
duvessa, nago

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 20:12

Re: Make Demigods appealing

I think there's something more fundamental here: new players can't evaluate what Dg stats actually mean in-game. Perhaps the 'solution' to all these Dg idea threads is to document stats better. 'Better' being "easier to find in-game" as well as "clear wording".

For this message the author Psieye has received thanks: 2
duvessa, nago

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Saturday, 12th November 2016, 20:39

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Psieye wrote:I think there's something more fundamental here: new players can't evaluate what Dg stats actually mean in-game. Perhaps the 'solution' to all these Dg idea threads is to document stats better. 'Better' being "easier to find in-game" as well as "clear wording".

I think that is a lot of the truth, it is very hard to evaluate how good demigods are without playing them a bunch, that makes them less appealing to people because there isn't a clear and obvious thing that makes the benefits they get worth losing a god, which is by and large something people can grasp in terms of how it benefits them (even if they frequently mis-evaluate god power, i feel like most players have a more concrete relationship to it.)
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks:
nago
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 40

Joined: Friday, 11th November 2016, 02:35

Post Sunday, 13th November 2016, 20:45

Re: Make Demigods appealing

Siegurt wrote:
Psieye wrote:I think there's something more fundamental here: new players can't evaluate what Dg stats actually mean in-game. Perhaps the 'solution' to all these Dg idea threads is to document stats better. 'Better' being "easier to find in-game" as well as "clear wording".

I think that is a lot of the truth, it is very hard to evaluate how good demigods are without playing them a bunch, that makes them less appealing to people because there isn't a clear and obvious thing that makes the benefits they get worth losing a god, which is by and large something people can grasp in terms of how it benefits them (even if they frequently mis-evaluate god power, i feel like most players have a more concrete relationship to it.)

Makes sense. I've done some tests with Wizard mode and it's indeed hard indeed to evaluate attribute effects - even more so early game (where they spend considerable time due considerable xp penalty)

I mean players (and the user interface) need simpler derivatives easy to gauge - even the armor formula being translated to +4% AC is a great help. More stuff should be like that.
For instance I suppose having more str increase melee damage, but I have no clue by how much - same goes for several other tiny things related to attributes - maybe we need more info on attribute effects on "%"

What does their 7 strength over a deep elf mean for a caster build? How that affects encumbrance? Melee performance? (It also lost a some appeal with the removal of item weight). Is it worth having no god?
Same goes for dexterity - How much extra dodge ac the dex is worth? (compared to a non elves anyway)
How much easier does this base int make splashing into basic spell casting as a hybrid that started with melee?

Maybe the attribute advantage could be implemented another "flashier" way - like doubling the modified in game value (after reducing the base/growth). Just an idea.


They have base Int and Dex tied with the specialists of those - even surpassing them afterwards if they focus. Their Strength is bellow Ogre's and Trolls tough.
Even with their doubled attribute growth every 3 levels, they cannot surpass neither Troll or Ogre - they can easily match Minotaurs tough (because those have less growth split between str and dex)

Still I will try the ideas i brainstormed up here on wiz mode - the set skills level based on XL and the different attribute growth (+1x3 instead of +2x1).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 13th November 2016, 22:40

Re: Make Demigods appealing

im not 100% sure on this but i think Dg has a little more HP than DE

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 3
nago, PlatinumSpider, vergil

Blades Runner

Posts: 536

Joined: Friday, 1st April 2016, 18:15

Post Monday, 14th November 2016, 19:24

Re: Make Demigods appealing

[/sarcasm]
twelwe wrote:It's like Blink, but you end up drowning.

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.