YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb


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Slime Squisher

Posts: 419

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:38

YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

  Code:
2315644 Damerell the Hoplite (level 27, 265/265 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Dwarf Fighter on Aug 21, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Makhleb.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Aug 26, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 19:55:52 (75947 turns).


Hooray, first ascension, and indeed first game with at least three runes (and second game with any runes). I admit, though, I don't have the same sense of what happened as in a game of NetHack... and games of Crawl are _longer_, both turns and clock time (especially if you aren't really used to autoexplore, I guess - which Crawl needs with those big densely packed levels).


Four runes? I'd been involuntarily Abyssed on Depths:5 and found it to be quite harmless at that point. Later, I was in there voluntarily for reasons I'll discuss, and thought I might as well go down to Abyss:3 and try and score an extra rune.

I was lucky enough to find an altar to Makhleb on D:2. I've been trying to use Makhleb as my source of divine healing as a deep dwarf, but that does leave you scratching your head if you've reached the Temple and found only Trog. Trog's Hand has the advantage that you can use it on-demand, but you just don't get so much of it per kill.

Makhleb's downside is that you can be left between fights on half hitpoints wondering if you should burn some precious wand charges (and by extension, Max MP). On reflection, I know now they're not that precious: I was never at any risk of running low on Max MP. In the early game, it's probably not worth healing "just in case" unless HP are very low but by all means pop a charge when something hefty comes into view.

That said, I found a decent robe on D:2 and a book of Necromancy, and went around first animating skeletons then trying to poke things with Vampiric Draining. I don't know how well this worked - I was obviously taking more damage without the scale mail, but Draining is a decent attack and returns some hitpoints, which may have helped to tide me over before reaching ** piety on D:5.

For the rest of the game I would read books and learn spells that sounded like they might be useful (and use scrolls of amnesia to shuffle the spell set). Of course, I never used one, although I did stash a spellcasting kit (ring of wizardry, ring of intelligence, potions of brilliance) and was careful never to leave a book in a temporary branch, so if I'd wanted spells in an extended game they would have been available.

Dungeon:8 had four shops on it, which radically changed the game. Vexingly, I glutted myself on scrolls from the first one before finding the other three, which of course also had stuff I wanted. In particular, one of them had a randart scimitar which I couldn't quite afford but felt would be worth a look.

Down a level and into a bailey, the one with a bunch of orcs with reach weapons behind a moat (which they are singularly bad at using: as far as I can see they try and close with you by the circuitous route around the moat so they are basically free kills with stones). Things got quite hairy in the bailey proper but I'd picked up a legendary deck of changes somewhere which saved me - not for the first time.

Enough gold thanks to the bailey, so I bought the +11 scimitar of the Coward {elec, rF+ Int+4}. Very well, RNG, I will switch to Long Blades.

Now, I know Crawl veterans will say, don't swap weapon type, there will be better axes coming, etc. I am not a Crawl veteran and don't know these things, and as it turned out there were no artifact axes at all.

Aha, they say, but base weapon type matters too, you don't want to be using a scimitar in the endgame. As it turned out artifact scimitars were my only convenient source of rFire - later I'd find a ring of fire but for most of the game I had only one spot of rCold, so the ring's cold vulnerability meant it was a bit of a mixed blessing.

I stuck my nose into the Lair but didn't much fancy tickling hydras to death with my +1 spear of piercing, so instead I had a bash at the Orcish Mines. They were mostly OK except for a seemingly endless supply of tough orcs at the end, more so than usual: I seem to have been down to 5/109 HP here but I burned consumables like candy and survived the experience.

By now I had a scimitar of flaming so could more sensibly tackle the Lair. I don't remember much happened here except I killed a third "Moorlo's ghost". Poor Moorlo wasn't having much luck.

With rPois from a large shield (which I'd use all game, albeit that for two separate chunks of the game I had the poison resistance mutation - but I'd trained Shields, so why not?) I figured I could try the Spider Nest.

This wasn't much of a problem apart from ghost moths, which are a complete pain without SInv; I got half a dozen or so while working through to the treasure, and - it pains me to admit - only realised afterwards I was carrying around a ring of sustain abilities. I was drained of about twelve stat points total after that, so if there was a mistake I deserved to die of, this was it. I seem to recall Arachne was also moderately annoying.

Next I did Swamp, which is really incredibly annoying with the map being such an incoherent mess. I don't remember any serious problems here apart from the Lernaean Hydra, but heavy armour characters are good at monsters with many weak attacks, right? I think by now I'd already found the crystal plate armour of resist cold I'd use for the rest of the game.

After these two rune branches, which I probably did too early, the rest of the Dungeon was a pushover. On D:13 I found a shop with two Manuals of Long Blades, one of which I'd later buy, and also pulled and paid for a Mercenary card. I'd later regret spending all this money, but it worked out in the end.

I was pretty nervous about Depths:1. That's where I'd died in my only previous game with any runes, and although something else had actually polished me off, the death was fairly directly attributable to a combination of overconfidence and fighting spark wasps without rElec, a resistance I still lacked this game.

Down to Depths:1 to find myself in a big open space surrounded by a warg, an ice dragon, 12 orcs, 3 yaktaurs, an ogre, a troll, 2 stone giants, a rakshasa and Saint Roka. Teleported away (I should perhaps instead have read magic mapping, hasted myself, and run for cover) to find myself in a big open space with the Enchantress and a wide assortment of other nasties.

Fortunately these two assortments of unpleasantness were on opposite sides of the level so, burning more consumables, I could get between them and pick them off one at a time. Sojobo the Tengu King turned up at some point with his cohorts, but that wasn't such a problem.

Depths:4 combined a runed door vault (with gateways to the Abyss, Pan, Hell, a ziggurat...) with a side area outside the vault with an iron giant (not a problem once I realised not to melee it) and a vast horde of deep trolls (who kept breaking up the cover), salamanders, and other annoyances. By now this sort of thing wasn't an existential threat, though, just needed a bit of caution.

Otherwise the Depths were not a serious problem... until I got Abyssed by a hell knight on Depths:5. At first I was quite concerned but in fact at this point it was quite manageable - easier, in fact, than the stuff I'd been wrestling outside. (In fact, I see now I was sent to Abyss:3, not Abyss:1).

Back out and I was really quite concerned about my lack of rElec and the supposed lethality of the Vaults. I figured I'd stick my nose into the Elven Halls and see how bad they were. The answer was, not really - a slightly nervous run-in with Nikola (I used Silence to stop him zapping me) and Roxanne (just rushed her) but the elves themselves were not a serious issue. I found a silent bazaar on Elf:2 where I bought my artifact cloak, and got a randart ring with rN++ in Elf:3 which was nice but didn't solve the rElec problem.

Nothing for it but the Vaults. I don't remember any serious issues on Vaults 1-4: I found a wizlab on Vaults:3 where a cacodemon gave me Deformed, consuming a potion of cure mutation, which was annoying.

Vaults:5 wasn't as bad as I had feared. I arrived hasted but could see a hidey-hole to fight monsters in one at a time: that was OK until I managed to get myself stuck in shallow water from my own phial of floods (these experience-recharging items are great in Depths and Zot where half a dozen kills bring them back to life) and then had two ancient liches summon demons that could use torment. Teleported away, dealt with the horde of dragons etc waiting there, then mugged the ancient liches one at a time.

I got an ornate deck of wonders which I spammed in the hope of getting beneficial mutations (got one) and Focus (with plenty of Int to spare).

However, I still had no rElec, and I knew there were electric golems coming in Zot. I'd seen the +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {rElec Int+2 SInv} in a shop - since I was also having to swap in a ring of see invisible as needed, this was an attractive proposition, but I was a full 900 gold short.

My first thought was that, well, the Abyss is infinite, and probably contains at least some gold. However, it wasn't long before someone on IRC pointed out I hadn't done the Crypt yet, and I was confusing the Crypt with the dire nature of the Tomb.

The Crypt was straightforward enough but didn't get me enough cash. Well, I'd seen an entrance to a ziggurat - surely the first few levels would be OK, and if I got in out of my depth I could spam consumables and try and rush for the exit. I did 8 levels in the end - the 8th level was not seriously hairy, but I was starting to feel things could go sour in a hurry.

I found the +10 scimitar of Plague {flame, +Blink rF+ Dex+4 SInv} which was handy to swap in and out both according to monster resistances and the need for see invisible; I also found the ring "Kyoc" {rC+ MP+9 Str+3} which I could use when my second ring slot wasn't needed situationally - or put a ring of fire in the first ring slot without losing all cold resistance.

However, I still didn't have rElec., although I was getting closer to the requisite gold. I stuck my nose into Slime, which seemed manageable but annoying - minor wall damage is more of an issue on a deep dwarf that won't heal it out. I had another go at the Abyss; the gold rate was terrible, but it seemed like I might as well get an idea of the difficulty of getting the abyssal rune, which is how this became a 4-rune ascension. (Easier than Vaults:5, it turns out).

I was very close at this point: I thought I'd see if there was anything I could snatch and grab in the opening area of the Tomb without any greater mummy difficulties. There was just the right amount of gold; so I legged it, finally bought the crown of Dyrovepreva, and went to Zot.

What fearsome challenges might await me in the Realm of Zot, I thought, going through the portal to be faced with... 21 stones, 36 gold pieces, and a scroll of enchant armour.

Zot:1-4 weren't too bad (although orbs of fire are a pain); Zot 5 found me in a bit of a press as I worked my way through the choke point halfway down the orb vault, but as mentioned above the phial of floods and similar items are easily recharged and so should be used freely - the allies they spawn make excellent meatshields / speedbumps. The super-high XP values on Zot:5 also meant I was regularly gaining Max HP from training Fighting.

Grabbed the orb and jumped in a teleport trap to find myself near an orange crystal statue in the west side of the orb vault, which I hadn't cleared. I found myself a bit stuck with an Orb Guardian in the exit door, but then a Panlord banished me to the Abyss. After an initial hesitation I realised this was brilliant - the Abyss was no tougher than normal and I could heal up on windshield kills.

Bit of a struggle to get out the door, burning a cure mutation on berserkities, but I got clear. The same Panlord Abyssed me again on Zot:4 but then got in the way, so I killed them. The rest of the orb run posed no real problems except another cacodemon gave me Deformed (again!) using up another cure mutation. I had plenty of digging, so made shortcuts as necessary, including one around the Panlord who turned up near the final exit.

I dunno what to do next. Vine stalker, maybe?

  Code:
Damerell the Hoplite (Deep Dwarf Fighter)          Turns: 75947, Time: 19:55:53

Health: 265/265    AC: 52    Str: 36      XL:     27
Magic:  34/34      EV: 23    Int:  8      God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   850        SH: 34    Dex: 26 (27) Spells: 9 memorised, 0 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    b - +10 scimitar {flame, +Blink rF+ Dex+4 SInv}
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    j - +11 crystal plate armour {rC+}
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    E - +0 large shield {rPois}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    A - +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {rElec Int+2 SInv}
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    y - +0 cloak of Agnosticism {Str+6 Int-2}
rCorr  .          Reflect  +    x - +2 pair of gloves of Hairiness {Dex+2}
SustAt .          Harm     .    u - +2 pair of boots of Befudo {Dex+2}
MR     ++++.                    P - +6 amulet of reflection
Stlth  ..........               X - ring "Kyoc" {rC+ MP+9 Str+3}
                                H - ring "Let Ixti" {rPois rN++ Stlth+}

@: very slightly contaminated, non-regenerating, hasted, very quick, incredibly
resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow regeneration 3, wild magic 1
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, silver, abyssal, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Makhleb.
Makhleb was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and saw 56 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 5 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 1 ziggurat, and saw 8 of its levels.
You also visited: Sewer, Bailey, Ice Cave and Wizlab.

You collected 9753 gold pieces.
You spent 8313 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +11 scimitar of the Coward {elec, rF+ Int+4}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
 b - the +10 scimitar of Plague (weapon) {flame, +Blink rF+ Dex+4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 5 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades are also staple armaments of
   hydra-hunters.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you blink.
Missiles
 Y - 9 javelins of returning (quivered)
Armour
 j - a +11 crystal plate armour of cold resistance (worn)
 u - the +2 pair of boots of Befudo (worn) {Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 x - the +2 pair of gloves of Hairiness (worn) {Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 y - the +0 cloak of Agnosticism (worn) {Str+6 Int-2}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   
   It affects your strength (+6).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
 A - the +3 crown of Dyrovepreva (worn) {rElec Int+2 SInv}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
 E - a +0 large shield of poison resistance (worn)
Rods
 Z - a +3 rod of shadows (14/14)
   (You found it in a wizard's laboratory)
Jewellery
 t - an uncursed ring of fire
 z - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 B - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 H - the ring "Let Ixti" (left hand) {rPois rN++ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of stealth]
   
   It protects you from poison.
   It greatly protects you from negative energy.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 J - an uncursed ring of sustain attributes
 P - a +6 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 T - an uncursed ring of flight
 X - the ring "Kyoc" (right hand) {rC+ MP+9 Str+3}
   (You found it on level 6 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
Wands
 c - a wand of disintegration (9/24)
 d - a wand of heal wounds (6/9)
 e - a wand of heal wounds (5/9)
 G - a wand of digging (3/24)
 S - a wand of hasting (4/9)
Scrolls
 h - 3 scrolls of holy word
 i - 9 scrolls of identify
 p - 18 scrolls of remove curse
 r - 24 scrolls of teleportation
 D - 6 scrolls of fog
 I - 6 scrolls of fear
 M - 5 scrolls of summoning
 N - 9 scrolls of magic mapping
 O - 4 scrolls of blinking
 Q - a scroll of recharging
Potions
 g - 20 potions of curing
 m - 2 potions of berserk rage
 v - 7 potions of ambrosia
 F - 5 potions of cancellation
 L - a potion of might
 V - 5 potions of heal wounds
 W - 5 potions of invisibility
Miscellaneous
 n - a fan of gales
 q - a phial of floods
 s - a disc of storms
 w - a legendary deck of changes {drawn: 11}
 C - a stone of tremors
Comestibles
 f - 18 bread rations
 k - 36 meat rations
 l - 16 beef jerkies
 o - 7 slices of pizza


   Skills:
 * Level 19.0 Fighting
 + Level 20.9 Long Blades
   Level 2.6(5.6) Axes
   Level 6.4(6.6) Polearms
 + Level 16.7 Throwing
 + Level 22.2 Armour
 + Level 16.7 Dodging
 + Level 12.1 Stealth
 + Level 22.3 Shields
 - Level 3.6 Spellcasting
   Level 5.5 Necromancy
   Level 2.6 Ice Magic
 + Level 21.9 Invocations
 + Level 20.4 Evocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      #.........   100%        2    ###....
b - Summon Guardian Gole  Hex/Summ       #.......     100%        3    ####...
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          100%        2    ###....
d - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      #........    100%        6    #######
e - Summon Hydra          Summ           #.........   100%        7    #######
f - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      #.......     100%        4    #####..
g - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #.......     100%        3    ####...
h - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       100%        2    ###....
i - Olgreb's Toxic Radia  Pois           #.......     100%        4    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5            Lair (8/8) D:8
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (1/6) Lair:7
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (1/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (5/5) Depths:5   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
The Shining One
Jiyva
Lugonu

Shops:
D:8 *?(*   D:10 !   D:13 *   D:15 }   Orc:2 ([*:   Elf:1 (   Elf:3 [
Vaults:1 %   Vaults:2 =((*

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:2 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:4
Trove: Elf:3 (give 12 potions of heal wounds)

Annotations:
D:8 shops - spare SoEA
D:11 SoEW here, attack wands, another brand weapon
D:13 manuals of Long Blades, 2100GP
Spider:2 disc of storms here for rElec
Orc:1 stash - special armours, brand weapon, spellcasting kit
Vaults:3 disc of storms, SDA
Vaults:5 wands of disint
Crypt:1 small cache here
Depths:4 fruits, brilliance, demon blade
Zot:5 exclusion: orange crystal statue


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You resist negative energy.
You passively map a large area around you.
You do not regenerate naturally.
Your spells are a little harder to cast, but a little more powerful.


Message History

Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - you
You feel yourself speed up.
You are very lightly contaminated with residual magic.
This wand has 4 charges left.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: G - a wand of digging (4/24)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - you
The rock shatters into small pieces. This wand has 3 charges left.
You block Jakh's attack. You block the red devil's attack.
A sixfirhy comes into view.
A bat comes into view.
You hit the bat. You burn the bat.
You kill the bat!
Makhleb accepts your kill.
A rat comes into view.
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
You block the rat's attack.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Jakh hits you but does no damage. You block the rat's attack.
You have escaped!

      ##.#(............########(#
      #..#.###########.#......#.#
########.#..#.......#..######.#.#
.........#.#.#######.#.# ####.#.#
########.#.##.......##.# #......#
#      #.#.#.###'###.#.# #.######
       #.#.#.#.....#4#.# #.#
     #####.#.#.....#.#.###.#
     #.'.'.#.'..@..+.#X'.'.#
 #####.###.#.#..r&.#.#4#.###
##.......#.#.#.....#.#.&##
...#####.#.#.###'###4#.##
####   #.#.##.......#..#
########.#.#.#######.#.#
.........#..#.......#..#
#######).#.#######.###.#
      #..#.............#


You could see Jakh and a rat.
Ascension reports with too many words since 2016.

For this message the author damerell has received thanks:
Sprucery

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 17:08

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Congrats!
+11 electric scimitar is a good weapon, with might potion you can kill even orb of fire.
Switching weapon categories is fine, especially fine when you decided to use a shield since there are no excellent 1h axes.
Have you been unlucky with demon blades/double swords? They are much better than scimitar.

If you want to play another pure melee character, try unarmed Ghoul of Okawaru, it has very easy early game due to HP and immunity to poison, Heroism is great with UC.
If you want something more standard, MiBe is classic.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Slime Squisher

Posts: 419

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 17:26

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Have you been unlucky with demon blades/double swords? They are much better than scimitar.


Not with anything like those properties, especially since I was dependent on the weapon slot for rFire.
Ascension reports with too many words since 2016.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 17:32

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

You might have rF+ from ring of fire, ring "Let Ixti" {rPois rN++ Stlth+} is only situationally useful, exactly like rF+.
You probably underestimate damage from demon blade/double sword, demon blade spends 0.6 turn to attack, double sword has 125% base damage of scimitar and you had very high Str.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 17:49

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

I'd suggest MfGl^Oka or MfBe. This will keep you in the melee mode, but these tend to be EV-heavy instead of AC-heavy, and do not use a shield. These relatively weaker defenses will teach you good tactics.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 18:50

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Don't forget potions of resistance can easily fix your resistance problems. Just use them early in the fight, when the can still protect most of your HP.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 419

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 19:01

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

VeryAngryFelid wrote:You might have rF+ from ring of fire

I might? I imagine I did, since I had one and I explicitly described the possible use of it...
You probably underestimate damage from demon blade/double sword, demon blade spends 0.6 turn to attack,

Scimitar takes 0.7 with a base damage only one lower. Or perhaps I don't underestimate it, was capable of running wizmode tests, but had to work with the items I actually had.
Airwolf wrote:Don't forget potions of resistance can easily fix your resistance problems.

An excellent idea, modulo the detail that I didn't have any.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 19:05

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Ok, maybe I overestimate demon blade ;)
I will run fsim tests when I have a chance.
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Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 19:12

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Ok, potions of resistance are pretty rare.

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Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 19:34

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Yes they're rare, but their count by the time you get to Zot usually is comparable to the number of OoFs you'll encounter.
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Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 22:16

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Vs Stone giant, no shield:
  Code:
+9 demon blade
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     16,8 |     73 |      93% |  15,7 |    60  |  1,67 |     26,1
Defending:      7,1 |     30 |      38% |   2,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      2,7
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You hear the crackle of electricity.
h - a +11 scimitar of electrocution (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     21,2 |     79 |      94% |  20,0 |    70  |  1,43 |     28,5
Defending:      6,7 |     30 |      39% |   2,6 |   100  |  1,00 |      2,6
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Your +11 scimitar of electrocution stops crackling.
j - a +9 demon blade of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     20,3 |    106 |      93% |  19,0 |    60  |  1,67 |     31,7
Defending:      6,9 |     30 |      40% |   2,8 |   100  |  1,00 |      2,8
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
k - a +9 double sword (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     19,9 |     91 |      94% |  18,7 |    70  |  1,43 |     26,7
Defending:      6,4 |     30 |      38% |   2,5 |   100  |  1,00 |      2,5
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
l - a +9 double sword of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     23,3 |    113 |      94% |  22,0 |    70  |  1,43 |     31,4
Defending:      6,7 |     30 |      40% |   2,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      2,7


With 22.4 in shields and large shield:
  Code:
You finish putting on your +0 large shield.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
i - a +9 demon blade (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     16,8 |     80 |      93% |  15,7 |    62  |  1,60 |     25,3
Defending:      6,9 |     30 |      26% |   1,8 |   100  |  1,00 |      1,8
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You hear the crackle of electricity.
h - a +11 scimitar of electrocution (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     20,7 |     86 |      93% |  19,3 |    72  |  1,38 |     26,8
Defending:      6,7 |     30 |      25% |   1,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      1,7
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Your +11 scimitar of electrocution stops crackling.
j - a +9 demon blade of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     20,0 |     91 |      93% |  18,8 |    62  |  1,61 |     30,3
Defending:      6,6 |     30 |      26% |   1,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      1,7
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
l - a +9 double sword of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     23,5 |    107 |      93% |  21,9 |    72  |  1,39 |     30,4
Defending:      6,8 |     30 |      24% |   1,6 |   100  |  1,00 |      1,6


With 22.4 in shields and large shield vs Orb of Fire, no potion of might:
  Code:
i - a +9 demon blade (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     13,7 |     69 |      60% |   8,3 |    62  |  1,60 |     13,4
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You hear the crackle of electricity.
h - a +11 scimitar of electrocution (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     12,7 |     67 |      61% |   7,9 |    72  |  1,38 |     10,9
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Your +11 scimitar of electrocution stops crackling.
j - a +9 demon blade of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     16,4 |     86 |      62% |  10,2 |    62  |  1,61 |     16,5
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
l - a +9 double sword of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     19,6 |     98 |      61% |  12,0 |    72  |  1,38 |     16,7
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0


With potion of might:
  Code:
i - a +9 demon blade (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     20,3 |     83 |      61% |  12,4 |    62  |  1,60 |     19,9
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You hear the crackle of electricity.
h - a +11 scimitar of electrocution (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     19,2 |     83 |      62% |  12,0 |    72  |  1,38 |     16,6
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Your +11 scimitar of electrocution stops crackling.
j - a +9 demon blade of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     23,7 |    109 |      60% |  14,3 |    62  |  1,61 |     23,1
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
l - a +9 double sword of slicing (weapon)
Enter Wizard Command (? - help):
Enter monster name (or MONS spec):
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     27,5 |    129 |      62% |  17,2 |    72  |  1,38 |     24,0
Defending:      0,0 |      0 |       0% |   0,0 |    66  |  1,52 |      0,0


Conclusion. +9 demon blade of slicing is always better than +11 electro scimitar, the scimitar is the weakest weapon among all those weapons vs orb of fire no matter if might is used or not. +9 double sword of slicing deals 150% of scimitar damage to orb of fire with might.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 12th September 2016, 23:08

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:Hooray, first ascension

Congrats! You might have been overvaluing resistances a bit. This is understandable, as you are a Nethack veteran (possibly also a r.g.r.n. veteran?). In Crawl, resistances are not as important. You definitely want one pip of rF for Zot, but personally I would never go collect gold in the Abyss to by some rElec gear :)

It's generally a good idea to train only one or two skills at a time, and definitely don't train stealth in a crystal plate :)

Anyway, well done and the first one is always the best. Some fun combos in my opinion: HOFE, DrIE, MiAK.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 12:13

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Conclusion. +9 demon blade of slicing is always better than +11 electro scimitar

I know. I already said I am capable of conducting my own wizmode tests.
Sprucery wrote:
damerell wrote:Hooray, first ascension

Congrats! You might have been overvaluing resistances a bit. This is understandable, as you are a Nethack veteran (possibly also a r.g.r.n. veteran?). In Crawl, resistances are not as important. You definitely want one pip of rF for Zot, but personally I would never go collect gold in the Abyss to by some rElec gear :) It's generally a good idea to train only one or two skills at a time, and definitely don't train stealth in a crystal plate :)

I still read RGRN. My previous annoying death (with two runes, and the only other game I'd had with any runes) I'd died to spark wasps without rElec, so I was reluctant to do without, but IRC soon dissuaded me of the idea of trying to find the gold in the Abyss.

I try and confine my urge to train too many skills at once by focussing something important like getting mindelay. I could be wrong, but if memory serves me well, I trained Stealth early while wearing a robe and using spells.
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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 12:25

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Conclusion. +9 demon blade of slicing is always better than +11 electro scimitar

I know. I already said I am capable of conducting my own wizmode tests.


Sorry, it was not obvious to me based on your
"Not with anything like those properties, especially since I was dependent on the weapon slot for rFire".
It sounded like you believed +11 makes it better than demon blades. Maybe my English is too bad idk.
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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:02

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Sorry, it was not obvious to me based on your
"Not with anything like those properties, especially since I was dependent on the weapon slot for rFire".
It sounded like you believed +11 makes it better than demon blades. Maybe my English is too bad idk.


What I meant by that is that while a +9 branded demon blade would be better than a +11 branded scimitar, I didn't _have_ a +9 branded demon blade - at all, let alone one with a set of useful intrinsics into the bargain. You have to work with what you've actually got...
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:09

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:What I meant by that is that while a +9 branded demon blade would be better than a +11 branded scimitar, I didn't _have_ a +9 branded demon blade - at all, let alone one with a set of useful intrinsics into the bargain. You have to work with what you've actually got...


I see, you meant you didn't have a demon blade with close properties.
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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:19

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:What I meant by that is that while a +9 branded demon blade would be better than a +11 branded scimitar, I didn't _have_ a +9 branded demon blade - at all, let alone one with a set of useful intrinsics into the bargain. You have to work with what you've actually got...

You only need a +0 unbranded demon blade to make a +9 branded demon blade, given enough time. An endgame weapon doesn't need to be an artifact. Still, you won and that's a pretty good randart to find early enough that you could switch without much loss. Indeed, your unusual skilling path of investing in Necromancy early meant you hadn't put much into Axes when you chose to switch: the orthodox way is to beeline for weapon min. delay.

I have yet to read all of your post, but a quick point: there are more gods than Makhleb and Trog who can offer divine healing. Trog's alternate way of 'offering healing' is to give you a vampiric weapon (luck dependent).
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:33

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Psieye wrote:
damerell wrote:What I meant by that is that while a +9 branded demon blade would be better than a +11 branded scimitar, I didn't _have_ a +9 branded demon blade - at all, let alone one with a set of useful intrinsics into the bargain. You have to work with what you've actually got...

You only need a +0 unbranded demon blade to make a +9 branded demon blade, given enough time.
You will not always get that many EW-and even if you do, it will usually take long enough for that weapon to become worth using over a +11 elec scimitar that you'll basically still be using the scimitar most of the game.

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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:52

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

Psieye wrote:You only need a +0 unbranded demon blade to make a +9 branded demon blade, given enough time.


Quite a lot of time. I have no idea how many scrolls of enchant weapon I had lying around, but I'm guessing it wasn't 9 - and I don't know that I had a scroll of brand weapon, either. Besides, I'd cleaned out every branch I wanted to touch, so short of scumming...

I have yet to read all of your post, but a quick point: there are more gods than Makhleb and Trog who can offer divine healing.


I know.
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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 14:55

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:
Psieye wrote:You only need a +0 unbranded demon blade to make a +9 branded demon blade, given enough time.


Quite a lot of time. I have no idea how many scrolls of enchant weapon I had lying around, but I'm guessing it wasn't 9 - and I don't know that I had a scroll of brand weapon, either. Besides, I'd cleaned out every branch I wanted to touch, so short of scumming...


Shard1697 wrote:
Psieye wrote:
damerell wrote:What I meant by that is that while a +9 branded demon blade would be better than a +11 branded scimitar, I didn't _have_ a +9 branded demon blade - at all, let alone one with a set of useful intrinsics into the bargain. You have to work with what you've actually got...

You only need a +0 unbranded demon blade to make a +9 branded demon blade, given enough time.
You will not always get that many EW-and even if you do, it will usually take long enough for that weapon to become worth using over a +11 elec scimitar that you'll basically still be using the scimitar most of the game.

Agreed. Just wanted to make sure the notion "my endgame weapon has to be a big artifact of the right base type" is not an absolute. Some games (like this one), you get that artifact. Some games, you get a bunch of scrolls instead.

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Post Wednesday, 14th September 2016, 15:17

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:I have no idea how many scrolls of enchant weapon I had lying around, but I'm guessing it wasn't 9 - and I don't know that I had a scroll of brand weapon, either. Besides, I'd cleaned out every branch I wanted to touch, so short of scumming...


Now I am confused. Did you have any demon blade or double sword in that game? If you did, then not knowing how many EW scrolls and scrolls of brand weapon you had looks like a mistake.
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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 09:38

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

damerell wrote:I try and confine my urge to train too many skills at once by focussing something important like getting mindelay. I could be wrong, but if memory serves me well, I trained Stealth early while wearing a robe and using spells.

It's just that you have Stealth training on in that character dump you posted. Getting a few levels while in a robe is fine by me.

(Sadly I haven't played Nethack for years - or visited rgrn for that matter. There's apparently a new version out there, I'll try it as soon as I win the remaining backgrounds and gods in Crawl...)
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

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Post Thursday, 15th September 2016, 16:03

Re: YAVP, first, DDFi of Makhleb

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Did you have any demon blade or double sword in that game? If you did, then not knowing how many EW scrolls and scrolls of brand weapon you had looks like a mistake.

When I was playing the game, I let the game remember that, something it does very well. Now I've won the game the information is not in my head because it never had to be. This seems unremarkable.
Sprucery wrote:(Sadly I haven't played Nethack for years - or visited rgrn for that matter. There's apparently a new version out there, I'll try it as soon as I win the remaining backgrounds and gods in Crawl...)

3.6.0 and 3.6.1 are mostly patch-ups of the "leakhack" unfinished 3.5.0, which itself is not much different from 3.4.3. With Derek "Sporkhack" Ray on the Dev Team, though, I hope we'll see some more radical changes in later versions.
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