caster dungeon order

[sage1234]

I know it's here already but I couldn't find it. What is the easiest weak caster (DEWZ or OCWZ) dungeon order assuming you get sinv and rpois?
Here is what I think it is
d1-d11
Lair
D12-D13
Orc 1-2
D14-D15
Snake or spider to level 3
Shoals or swamp to level 3
Elf 1-2
Vaults 1-4
Snake or spider to rune
Shoals or swamp to ruin
Abyss 3 for ruin
Crypt 1-3
Depths 1-5
Zot 1-5
Surface

Not sure crypt 3 is of benefit considering the risks. I also feel like Depths 1-4 might be easier than ruin levels.

[MainiacJoe]

You have to swap "snake or spider to rune" with "Vaults 1-4" at the very least.

[ydeve]

I do Elf after Vaults. It's even worse now than before with elementalists and dancing weapons everywhere.

If you're playing a blaster, don't do V5. Slime is way easier since you have high spellpower bolt spells.

[Hands]

I would avoid abyss in general as a caster*, or as anything that didn't have high move speed and stealth, unless I was going for extra runes. I would especially try to avoid getting ruined there (or anywhere else for that matter). I would do swamp before spider or snake on almost all characters. I generally don't do crypt at all unless I feel like it, in which case I'll do it whenever the urge takes me. Same for elf. I would consider depths to be much more dangerous than the lair branch rune floors.

This isn't optimal but I usually just do all levels of each lair branch in one go. I generally just feel in the zone by the time I've done 1-3, and I play at a cautious pace that makes glaciers get bored so the extra risk doesn't bother me.

*By caster I mean someone who intends to deal with dangerous things via direct damage spells.

[elmdor]

This plan seems pretty cautious. It may not be necessary to delay grabbing the runes till later if you've gotten good spells. I often don't bother if I'm feeling good about damage output.

Cracking Elf:3 early can be a significant boon to a caster due to the staves and books that are usually in there. When I did Elf would depend on the spellbooks and MR I found. I don't think it would be prudent for a caster to attempt Elf without at least 3 pips of MR and a reliable method of doing non-elemental damage to dancing weapons, such as iron shot.

I would do V5 or slime for the rune rather than Abyss. Far too much can go wrong in the abyss for a squishy caster who runs out of mana.

[Arrhythmia]

I usually do Elf just after the S branches. I'm going to be fighting top-tier elves in vaults anyways, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

I don't normally have a rigid plan. Just head down the dungeon until the going gets tough (hill giants, centaur warriors, etc.) then dip into lair. Maybe leave the vault on the last level. Do a few levels of the easy rune branches. Got some tough uniques or something, dip into a orc. Then back to lair, or dungeon. Struggling with the second rune? Dip into vaults a bit. And so on.

Be flexible. Look at your gear. Think about the likely enemies. Some species are better suited to certain branches.

[duvessa]

Branch order is mostly the same for all characters. Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot

[njvack]

Just head down the dungeon until the going gets tough (hill giants, centaur warriors, etc.) then dip into lair.

I'd normally like to have Lair cleared way before meeting a centaur warrior.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

That's fair. Usually ordinary centaurs are a good enough reason to head into lair.

[sage1234]

Branch order is mostly the same for all characters. Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot

I normally follow this but it doesn't appear to be optimal especially for week characters. I am looking to remove as much risk as possible while maximizing my chances of winning. Since I know have a 0% winrate with DEWZ out of 100 games I have a lot of opportunity to improve.

[Sprucery]

Branch order is mostly the same for all characters. Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot

I normally follow this but it doesn't appear to be optimal especially for week characters. I am looking to remove as much risk as possible while maximizing my chances of winning. Since I know have a 0% winrate with DEWZ out of 100 games I have a lot of opportunity to improve.

That is pretty much the optimal route for weak characters as well. Unless you're a VM in which case you might want to do more D or even Orc before Lair.

(Personally, I do S rune branches in one go but it is not as safe.)

[and into]

The weaker your character, the harder it is to deviate from that path, actually.

[tabstorm]

Same as the dungeon order for every other character.

[Reptisaurus]

I pretty much do lair as soon as I find it. Except for the frog swamp lair:8 generally feels easier to me that D:11.

[sage1234]

The weaker your character, the harder it is to deviate from that path, actually.

I was told that by not doing the vaults 1-4 before doing the S ruins that my play was impatient. I read this and thought the dungeon order is way more complex than I thought.

Here is where I am at, I suck at DE so I need to improve dungeon order is one area the other is improved gameplay. I can quantify dungeon order but not sure how to improve my gameplay except more reading and more games, which I am doing.

[and into]

The weaker your character, the harder it is to deviate from that path, actually.

I was told that by not doing the vaults 1-4 before doing the S ruins that my play was impatient. I read this and thought the dungeon order is way more complex than I thought.

Here is where I am at, I suck at DE so I need to improve dungeon order is one area the other is improved gameplay. I can quantify dungeon order but not sure how to improve my gameplay except more reading and more games, which I am doing.

That makes sense, a reasonable dungeon order is important, but I wouldn't fixate too much on that specifically. Also keep in mind that a particularly dangerous level can spawn due to some combination of bad layout, uniques, higher than usual density of enemies, and higher than usual proportion of actually dangerous enemies. If that happens on Snake:2 or whatever, and you already did the other lair branch down to level 3, then it would probably be a good idea to let things cool down on Snake 2 and dip into Vaults instead even though it deviates from what is usually the path of least resistance.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

[...] but not sure how to improve my gameplay except more reading and more games [...]

I'd recommend watching some good players. People with streaks and high winrates are good to learn from you if you just want to win.

[Magipi]

Is it really useful to talk about a "caster" dungeon order? Is it really different from the other characters'?
Is it really useful to talk about a "casters" in Crawl? What is that, anyway?
What is the joke behind calling runes "ruins"? I don't get it.
"Abyss 3 for ruin". So, why would anyone go to the Abyss (except when you go for all the runes)?

[sage1234]

Is it really useful to talk about a "caster" dungeon order? Is it really different from the other characters'?
Is it really useful to talk about a "casters" in Crawl? What is that, anyway?
What is the joke behind calling runes "ruins"? I don't get it.
"Abyss 3 for ruin". So, why would anyone go to the Abyss (except when you go for all the runes)?

I was told that abyss is the easiest path, vaults as a caster is incredibly difficult.

From my perspective a faster type is way more difficult than melee which requires a higher level of play. For example, my last death was due to confusion with melee I wouldn't have died. Also teleport as a caster is a much riskier method of escape.


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[Magipi]

I was told that abyss is the easiest path, vaults as a caster is incredibly difficult.

From my perspective a faster type is way more difficult than melee which requires a higher level of play. For example, my last death was due to confusion with melee I wouldn't have died. Also teleport as a caster is a much riskier method of escape.

I don't understand a word of all this.

[sage1234]

After re-reading my last post I will stop responding on my iPhone.

Abyss with a bit of stealth is easier than vaults:5, so this would appear to be a better choice for obtaining the third rune. Is there an easier option?

Playing a DE in my experience is far more difficult than playing a melee character. A situation that would be trivial for a melee character can be almost certain death for a true caster. In a recent death I was confused by a summoned Tarantella, I am sure had I been a melee character I would have survived but lacking clarity, curing, blink, and rpois I did not know how to escape. A melee character could have stumbled around depending upon amour, hit points, dexterity etc. With my current skill level I need to maximize every situation and possibility including dungeon orders, play style, skill optimization, use of stairs etc.

So far I haven't figured this out with DE or OC, but I continue the fight.

[Magipi]

OK, I get it now.

The easiest 3rd rune for all characters is Slime, except in unusual circumstances. If you have pretty much any area spell with decent spellpower, it is not even a question.

A "caster" should kill tarantulas before they get into melee range. I would say that melee characters are in the most danger here.

DE is kinda weak, and Op is terrible. Don't play those (unless you are going for all the species).

[sage1234]

OK, I get it now.

The easiest 3rd rune for all characters is Slime, except in unusual circumstances. If you have pretty much any area spell with decent spellpower, it is not even a question.

A "caster" should kill tarantulas before they get into melee range. I would say that melee characters are in the most danger here.

DE is kinda weak, and Op is terrible. Don't play those (unless you are going for all the species).

Thank you I will try Slime. I am trying for all species, the first 19 species were "easy". After getting these done I was excited about finishing up my greatplayer status, then comes DE and OP. As you know they are more than a little bit harder than a MiBe.

[and into]

Personally I don't think I'd do Slime with a DE that lacks a source of resist corrosion. If you got rCorr it can be easier than V5, sure. Note rC+(+) is also nice in Slime because azure jellies are pretty scary!

[Magipi]

Personally I don't think I'd do Slime with a DE that lacks a source of resist corrosion.

Yes, that would be the "unusual circumstance" I mentioned.

[ydeve]

Slime is pretty trivial as a stairdancing blaster.

[TonberryJam]

I just go down the main dungeon until it feels scary, then head to lair. Scary being not fire/ice res and dragons. Biggest threat always seems to be blink frogs in lair.