XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra


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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 08:08

XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

A level 11 troll berserker fell through a shaft from lair 4 to lair 7. On the way back up he met a 4 headed hydra. What is the correct tactical choice

a) BiA*3 then berserk
b) use wand of fire (13 charges) (was actually a wand of flame)
c) BiA twice then run for the stairs
d) run for the stairs
e) scroll of teleport on this unexplored level as nothing can be as bad (Had 6!)
f) try wand of polymorph
g) something else

Note b then f then d is the wrong answer, but am interested to know whether any of the bright ideas I thought of afterwards would have worked any better.

EDIT character morgue file

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.8.0 character file.

14565 random II the Grappler (level 11, 0/85 (101) HPs)
             Began as a Troll Berserker on July 5, 2011.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Slain by a four-headed hydra (15 damage)
             ... on Level 4 of the Lair of Beasts on July 6, 2011.
             The game lasted 01:52:42 (11974 turns).

random II the Grappler (Troll Berserker)                                               Turns: 11974, Time: 01:52:43

HP   0/85 (101)  AC 12     Str 30      Exp: 11/20090 (1), need: 3084
MP   3/3         EV 16     Int  7      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 502         SH  0     Dex  9      Spells:  0 memorised, 10 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  T - +4 robe of the Equator {rF+ MR}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : +    (shield restricted)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    B - +2 wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    p - +0 cloak of Ploa {MR Int+1}
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: + .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    L - amulet "Vustrut" {Cons Str+3}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    U - +4 ring of evasion
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    G - ring of sustain abilities

@: extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +1
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You were on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were very full.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 15 of its levels.

You collected 482 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - a +0,+3 quarterstaff of protection {god gift}
 r - a +2,+1 sling of flame
 t - the +1,+7 lajatang of Deformation {god gift, slice, rF+}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   
   It protects you from fire.
 O - a +0,+0 bow of flame
Missiles
 d - 82 poisoned +0 needles
 f - 235 +0 stones (quivered)
 D - 2 curare-tipped +0 needles
 I - 15 +0 arrows of frost
Armour
 p - the +0 cloak of Ploa (worn) {MR Int+1}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
 B - a +2 wizard hat (worn)
 E - a +1 robe of resistance
 T - the +4 robe of the Equator (worn) {rF+ MR}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
Magical devices
 g - a wand of polymorph other (8)
 z - a wand of cold (11)
 C - a wand of polymorph other (6)
 H - a wand of flame (4)
 N - a wand of confusion (0) {unknown}
 Q - a wand of slowing (10) {unknown}
 S - a wand of paralysis (7) {unknown}
 V - a wand of random effects (16) {unknown}
 X - a wand of invisibility (2)
Comestibles
 a - 6 meat rations
 m - a pear
 s - 13 sultanas
 J - a royal jelly
 K - 10 strawberries
 M - 26 grapes
 Z - 11 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of summoning
 i - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 j - a scroll of fog
 k - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 n - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 o - 3 scrolls of detect curse
 q - a scroll of enchant armour {unknown}
 u - a scroll of blinking
 v - a scroll of fear
 y - 3 scrolls of identify
 A - 4 scrolls of curse jewellery {unknown}
 F - 2 scrolls of amnesia {unknown}
 P - a scroll of curse weapon {unknown}
 W - a scroll of enchant weapon I {unknown}
Jewellery
 G - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand)
 L - the amulet "Vustrut" (around neck) {Cons Str+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of conservation]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
 U - a +4 ring of evasion (right hand)
 Y - an uncursed amulet of faith
Potions
 b - 2 potions of might
 l - a potion of invisibility
 w - 2 potions of cure mutation
 x - a potion of brilliance
 R - a potion of speed


 You had 1 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 6 Fighting
 + Level 3 Throwing
 + Level 8 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 + Level 1 Stabbing
 + Level 13 Unarmed Combat


You had 10 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/27)             Temple (0/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:8
   Lair (7/8) D:8           Swamp (0/5) Lair:3        Snake (0/5) Lair:3
 Slime: Lair:6-8   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Fedhas

Annotations
D:5 exclusion: oklob plant
Lair:2 exclusion: ice statue


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).


Message History

Aim: A four-headed hydra (moderately wounded)
The puff of flame hits the four-headed hydra.
The four-headed hydra is moderately wounded.
This wand has 4 charges left.
The four-headed hydra completely misses you.
The four-headed hydra bites you!
You die...

¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦·¦¦·¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦·P···¦········¦
¦¦@·········P····
¦·¦D·············
¦¦···············
 ¦·······<·······
¦¦···············
¦················
¦¦···············
 ¦···············
¦¦···············
¦·········<·¦¦··¦


You could see a four-headed hydra.

Vanquished Creatures
  Joseph (D:8)
  A black mamba (Lair:5)
  2 spiny frogs
  Grinder (D:3)
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  A polar bear (Lair:2)
  3 blink frogs (Lair:2)
  7 giant toads
  Eustachio (D:7)
  Grum (D:8)
  6 hippogriffs
  A fire drake (Lair:4)
  8 yaks
  8 ice beasts (Lair:2)
  2 war dogs (D:8)
  2 orc warriors (D:7)
  Menkaure (D:5)
  5 gila monsters
  A centaur (D:7)
  4 wargs (D:8)
  A wolf (Lair:4)
  Sigmund (D:4)
  3 crocodiles
  5 ogres
  A giant slug (Lair:1)
  8 giant frogs
  8 big kobolds (D:7)
  7 water moccasins
  Blork the orc (D:6)
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:4)
  3 agate snails
  3 wights (D:7)
  3 imps
  2 orc priests
  A shadow (D:7)
  A hound zombie (D:7)
  A big fish (D:5)
  3 hounds
  5 porcupines
  4 orc wizards
  5 scorpions
  8 iguanas
  A worker ant (D:7)
  A sheep (Lair:5)
  6 jellies
  4 giant centipedes
  15 snakes
  7 gnolls
  31 green rats
  8 worms
  5 giant mites
  A white imp (Lair:2)
  A gnoll skeleton (D:5)
  4 giant geckos
  An ooze (D:6)
  21 orcs
  8 giant cockroaches
  2 grey rats (D:7)
  12 hobgoblins
  14 jackals
  21 megabats
  8 quokkas
  10 giant newts
  17 goblins
  5 hobgoblin skeletons
  17 kobolds
  17 rats
  5 small snakes
  7 fungi
  3 plants
384 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Maud (Lair:7)
  An elephant slug (Lair:7)
  A spiny frog (Lair:7)
  A blink frog (Lair:2)
  An ice beast (Lair:2)
  2 boring beetles (Lair:7)
  An agate snail (Lair:3)
  An iguana (Lair:3)
  A porcupine (Lair:7)
  10 green rats
20 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A small abomination (Lair:3)
  A quokka (Lair:3)
  A giant newt (D:6)
  A toadstool (Lair:2)
4 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 408 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place   | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | random II, the Troll Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 0/0
   263 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/25 MP: 0/0
  1234 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 1/1
  1325 | D:2      | Acquired Trog's second power
  1891 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 37/40 MP: 1/1
  1938 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  2182 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  2199 | D:3      | Defeated Grinder
  2199 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 30/48 MP: 1/1
  2199 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 34/55 MP: 2/2
  2521 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  3203 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  3217 | D:4      | Defeated Sigmund
  3217 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 64/64 MP: 2/2
  3726 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  3846 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3922 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3946 | D:5      | Noticed an oklob plant
  4046 | D:5      | Noticed Menkaure
  4053 | D:5      | Defeated Menkaure
  4269 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  4761 | D:6      | Acquired Trog's third power
  4869 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  4872 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  4876 | D:6      | Defeated Blork the orc
  4876 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 54/71 MP: 2/2
  4894 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4926 | D:6      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  4927 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4943 | D:6      | Defeated Prince Ribbit
  5385 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5806 | D:7      | Noticed Eustachio
  5819 | D:7      | Defeated Eustachio
  5978 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  6157 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 76/81 MP: 3/3
  6673 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  6843 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  7049 | D:8      | Got a fine robe
  7056 | D:8      | Identified the +4 robe of the Equator (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  7136 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  7188 | D:8      | Noticed Grum
  7196 | D:8      | Defeated Grum
  7389 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  7404 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  7575 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
  7592 | D:8      | Defeated Joseph
  7592 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 64/89 MP: 3/3
  7598 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  7757 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  7819 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
  8686 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
  8859 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
  8913 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 1 in Stabbing
  9763 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
  9769 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 73/83 MP: 3/3
  9940 | Lair:3   | Got a faintly glowing tin amulet
  9942 | Lair:3   | Identified the amulet "Vustrut" (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 10059 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 10502 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
 11169 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 11280 | Lair:5   | Got an encrusted lajatang {god gift}
 11281 | Lair:5   | Identified the lajatang of Deformation {god gift, slice, rF+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11340 | Lair:5   | You fall through a shaft!
 11425 | Lair:7   | Noticed Maud
 11441 | Lair:7   | Defeated Maud
 11502 | Lair:7   | Got a slimy cloak
 11505 | Lair:7   | Identified the +0 cloak of Ploa (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11974 | Lair:4   | Slain by a four-headed hydra

Last edited by RFHolloway on Friday, 8th July 2011, 12:31, edited 4 times in total.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 08:29

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Being a newbie, I would say A, but only with two brothers in arms. F might be Way Too Dangerous.
Was your wand of fire throwing great bolts or small puffs? If it was throwing only small puffs, then using it against a hydra is a Desperate Step.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 08:44

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

MyOtheHedgeFox wrote:Being a newbie, I would say A, but only with two brothers in arms. F might be Way Too Dangerous.
Was your wand of fire throwing great bolts or small puffs? If it was throwing only small puffs, then using it against a hydra is a Desperate Step.


not sure but i managed to knock it into the yellow after 4 hits. The wand of poly gave a "very easily resisted" message so i gave it up after one charge.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 11:36

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote:What is the correct tactical choice


The correct tactical choice is to have a plan in place before you encounter a hydra, and then implement that plan.

When you decide to enter the Lair, you know that you will have to face hydras. A four headed hydra is the easiest one you will encounter. Hydras are scary, the first few times you run into them; but somewhere along the line you have to fight them. So you have to have a plan in mind, before you enter the lair, as to how you're going to fight them.

You want to hit them with your strength. For a berserker, that's melee. Up against a hydra, that will mean using either a sword of flame, or a mace (either is fine, but a flaming sword is more fun, as you chop off those heads one after another).

If you have a flaming sword or a decent mace, and reasonable skill with it, you can kill a hydra in straight up melee, though maybe not at XL 11 (for example, if all your skill is in swords but you don't have a flame brand, and so you are clumsily swinging a mace; and that would show a lack of planning ahead on your part, wouldn't it). At XL 11 even a clumsy mace wielder should be able to turn that hydra to paste with berserk. If you feel uncertain about it, call a brother first. Two brothers is overkill; three is a waste of piety.

In short: use your best power against a hydra -- a mace to the face -- rather than using those sissy wands.

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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 11:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote:e) scroll of teleport on this unexplored level as nothing can be as bad (not sure I had one, but didn't check)


This would be the right choice, if random teleport didn't have a 99% chance of landing you adjacent to the eight-headed hydra that's elsewhere on the level.

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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 11:57

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote:
MyOtheHedgeFox wrote:Being a newbie, I would say A, but only with two brothers in arms. F might be Way Too Dangerous.
Was your wand of fire throwing great bolts or small puffs? If it was throwing only small puffs, then using it against a hydra is a Desperate Step.


not sure but i managed to knock it into the yellow after 4 hits. The wand of poly gave a "very easily resisted" message so i gave it up after one charge.


Wand of Fire = Great Bolts of Fire ~= Bolt of Fire (spell lvl 6)

Wand of Flame = Small puffs of flame ~= Throw Flame (spell lvl 2)

If it was only on yellow after 4 hits, I'm guessing it was flame not fire...

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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 12:27

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote:A level 11 troll berserker fell through a shaft from lair 4 to lair 7. On the way back up he met a 4 headed hydra. What is the correct tactical choice

a) BiA*3 then berserk
b) use wand of fire (13 charges)
c) BiA twice then run for the stairs
d) run for the stairs
e) scroll of teleport on this unexplored level as nothing can be as bad (not sure I had one, but didn't check)
f) try wand of polymorph
g) something else

Note b then f then d is the wrong answer, but am interested to know whether any of the bright ideas I thought of afterwards would have worked any better.


Its g) BiA three times and don't berserk unless under 2/3 HP. See if you can go without. With Hydra, chances are you'll come out of Rage before you kill it at this stage. And that would be very bad.

Also, never use a Polymorph Wand on... well most things. Its only situationally useful if the creature has a bad ability you don't want it to activate; since Polymorph will always typically make it stronger.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 13:35

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

three BiA? total overkill. wand of fire should be fine, and a single brother (at higher piety) should kill a hydra pretty good (albeit with a chance to give it more heads, too)
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 13:58

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

eharper256 wrote:Its g) BiA three times and don't berserk unless under 2/3 HP. See if you can go without. With Hydra, chances are you'll come out of Rage before you kill it at this stage. And that would be very bad.


I think you're telling him not to berserk unless he needs to -- which I agree with -- because going berserk will probably kill him -- which I disagree with. Unless he has really low M&F, he'll kill a 4 head in 6 to 8 berserk-whacks, and berserk will surely last long enough for that.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 14:14

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I didn't attack directly as I was worried about giving it more heads - how worried should I be about that?
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 14:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote:I didn't attack directly as I was worried about giving it more heads - how worried should I be about that?


If you're attacking with a bladed weapon without fire brand then extremely worried.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 14:38

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

The question obviously is big enough to need its own thread.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 15:12

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Mackerel wrote: The correct tactical choice is to have a plan in place before you encounter a hydra, and then implement that planWhen you decide to enter the Lair, you know that you will have to face hydras. A four headed hydra is the easiest one you will encounter. Hydras are scary, the first few times you run into them; but somewhere along the line you have to fight them. So you have to have a plan in mind, before you enter the lair, as to how you're going to fight them.

First time in lair so didn't know what to expect
First lesson - must have a plan. (and thats kind of the point of the question!)

Mackerel wrote:
You want to hit them with your strength. For a berserker, that's melee. Up against a hydra, that will mean using either a sword of flame, or a mace (either is fine, but a flaming sword is more fun, as you chop off those heads one after another).

If you have a flaming sword or a decent mace, and reasonable skill with it, you can kill a hydra in straight up melee, though maybe not at XL 11 (for example, if all your skill is in swords but you don't have a flame brand, and so you are clumsily swinging a mace; and that would show a lack of planning ahead on your part, wouldn't it). At XL 11 even a clumsy mace wielder should be able to turn that hydra to paste with berserk. If you feel uncertain about it, call a brother first. Two brothers is overkill; three is a waste of piety.

have (had :( )no skill in weapons - had 12 or so in unarmed - was quite happy clawing everything else.
Mackerel wrote:
In short: use your best power against a hydra -- a mace to the face -- rather than using those sissy wands.


Lesson 2 BiA is a panic button, second BiA is your escape plan, third BiA is a waste.
Last edited by RFHolloway on Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 15:14

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

One BIA and berserk with a non-bladed weapon unless it has flaming.
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Post Wednesday, 6th July 2011, 21:30

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

I've played berserkers several times so far, and I like to maintain a balance of weapon skills: hand to hand, maces & flails, and (eventually) blades -- and perhaps slings. I like that for several reasons.

1. You don't know what all junk you're going to pick up from the dungeon floor, you might get a dagger of poison and a morningstar of crushing and a whip of electricity.

2. Eventually Trog is going to give you some neat stuff, and even if you haven't been pushing M&F hard, it's nicer to start building that skill from, say, level 5 instead of from 0.

3. There are a number of monsters that are a lot easier to kill with certain weapons. Flame weapons work very nicely on ice beasts, weapons of cold will slow down poisonous frogs and snakes, undead critturs take extra damage from holy weapons. You'll find all of these weapons, sooner or later. It's a lot more fun if you already have at least modest skill in that weapon class when you pick up a really cool weapon.

4. Specifically for hydras. If you have your troll berserker attack one with your clawed hand-to-hand, you'll suddenly discover that that 4 headed hydra has grown more heads, and is biting you 8 or 10 times per round instead of only just 4. The results will probably not be pretty. You'll need some non-edged weapon and the skill to use it: I usually just say "a mace" but anything in the M&F category will do -- club (very sucky weapon), giant club (less sucky), hammer, mace, flail morningstar, whip, &c -- or a quarterstaff, or a dagger, or a spear. No swords, axes, or other choppy pole arms. Unless (there's always some damn exception or other) the weapon has a flame brand. But it will be pretty rare to have one of those when you're first entering the Lair.

So on your next troll zerker, pick up any random hammer or flail or mace, and build your M&F skill up to at least 3 or 4. I do the same with blades, looking for a sabre if I can find one. Then I like to build hand to hand up to 10 or so. Then I work M&F some more, and by then maybe I've found a long sword to increase long blades.

Crawl rewards you for specialization -- becoming very good, even insanely good, in a small cluster of skills. But not for overspecialization -- becoming so focused on being good at one thing that you have nothing at all to use against the occasional monster that has a strong defense against your specialization.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 03:34

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

You may be right, Minmay; certainly you have much more experience than I do.

I've never tried to kill a hydra with just claws. I've never been confident enough to expect that my troll's damage output will simply overwhelm the steadily increasing damage caused by the hydra growing more and more heads: and thus to kill a steadily-more-dangerous monster. It seems to me that while it's relatively easy to beat down a 6 or 8 headed hydra before it kills you, that might not be the case as it becomes a 10 and 12 and 14 headed hydra. Perhaps at XL 20 the troll's damage output is so high that every hydra is trivial; I'm not sure that would be true at XL 11. Where is the crossover line, where we shift from "the hydra's increasing damage output, as it grows from 6 to 12 heads, will surely kill the troll" to "the troll's incredible damage output means the hydra will quickly die, no matter how many heads it grows" ?

Also it seems to me that many useful resists and special effects show up specifically on weapons -- often on Trog gift weapons. Perhaps my irresistible claws will mean that I can rip apart any pure melee enemy; but don't I want to have those resists and effects available, since over the course of a game I'm going to run into a lot of enemies that are not pure melee?

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 08:42

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

note that minmay does not say you should try to rip the hydra to pieces with your claws, he only says you should not train your weapon skill.
use a blunt weapon, by all means. your attacks will be slower as you are not trained, but berserk gives you haste as well, negating this penalty.
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 12:43

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

This got me intrigued, so I had to try an experiment in Wizard Mode.

Created a level 11 Troll Berserker: fighting 11, unarmed combat 11, dodging 11, staves 0, 131 hp, piety ******

Melee (claws) vs hydra: 2 attempts, 2 terrible failures. 12 or 14 headed hydra causing massive damage.

Melee (0,0 quarterstaff) vs hydra: 6 attempts, 6 failures. Using Wizard Mode heals, could eventually defeat hydra.

Berserk:
Claws: 9 wins, 1 loss. In addition to the loss, there were 2 more times with troll hp below 30%.
Quarterstaff: 8 wins, 2 losses. In addition to the loss, there were 2 more times with troll hp below 30%.

Preliminary conclusions. Given sample size, berserk attack on hydra, claws vs blunt weapon are approximately equal. Neither is guaranteed a win. An additional enemy showing up will often yield a failure.

Probably need to run the experiment another 10 times, with & without weapon. Need to run it also with, say, 4 or 5 staves skill, for comparison.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1242

Joined: Thursday, 10th March 2011, 19:45

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 12:51

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

I've always thought that characters with claws ought to be able to close their fists and not use their claws, with damage being lower as a result. Probably not felids, as a cat's paw without the claws is quite soft, but I can imagine being punched by a troll still being fairly painful.

Maybe a troll's claws are too long for them to be able to properly clench their fists - but someone with the Claws 1 mutation has 'sharp fingernails,' and it doesn't seem that far-fetched that they could avoid using them. Or maybe just use some kind of karate chop, elbow strike or kick instead.

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 13:09

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

How about some large blunt weapon? On XL11 a troll should have found some ogre club etc.
No crawl/wizmode here, have to work :(
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

Bim

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 700

Joined: Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 15:51

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 16:26

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

one BiA and a bez should mince straight through the hydra, get it down a bit with a wand/throwing if you can, but if not you should be alright. just hit it a few times first (make sure you don't get down below about 40-50%) and then go berserk. You should be fineee.
2012 Winner of fewest proposed ideas implemented by devs.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 17:13

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

minmay wrote:Regarding resistances and such on weapons, you can wield a weapon without having its skill.


But I won't get those weapons if I haven't trained those skills, will I? That seems to be what you were suggesting earlier:

minmay wrote:training up all those different skills is the reason you're getting Trog gifts spread across a bunch of different skills.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Thursday, 7th July 2011, 17:22

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

minmay wrote: Looking at the way you used a quarterstaff as your test weapon, it seems you weren't wearing a shield. Trolls should wear a shield. Pretty much always. Yes, especially with unarmed.


Ran all the tests I had time for. I picked a quarterstaff because it's a high accuracy high damage newbie weapon. It would certainly be worthwhile to run further tests, as I already suggested.

When I have time, I'll experiment further: with a shield and with a buckler (though I have certainly had games when I had found neither one, by the time I got to the Lair), and with no shield skill (to indicate you just found one) and with high shield skill (maybe, hmm, skill 4 or 5 in shields, to indicate you found a nice one on D1).

Plus I want to test taking on a hydra in melee and in berserk with a mace or hammer, with a skill level around 6 or 7, as an actual experiment rather than just my own anecdotal remembrance of defeating hydras in melee without using berserk.
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Snake Sneak

Posts: 128

Joined: Friday, 13th May 2011, 12:06

Post Friday, 8th July 2011, 12:29

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

Morgue file now included - so you can tell me in detail what I should have done!
A troll caster is a hybrid

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Friday, 8th July 2011, 19:57

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

RFHolloway wrote:Morgue file now included - so you can tell me in detail what I should have done!


Looks like you had a scroll of blinking, a scroll of fear, and a potion of speed. Any of those could probably have gotten you to the stairs, at the point when you decided that it was time to escape.

Just running for the stairs, as you found out, doesn't work; the hydra will happily chase you and beat you down from behind. But you can scare it away long enough for you to get to a staircase, or blink to (or enough nearer to) a staircase, or quaff that potion so that you can successfully outrun the hydra to make it to a staircase.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Friday, 8th July 2011, 20:01

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

I'm sure BiA would have won the battle for you.

I don't know if you could have won with berserk. I'll run my experiment again, when I get a little more time, with your actual stats and skills -- I had misguessed how high your skills would be, when I set them all to 11.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Friday, 8th July 2011, 23:54

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

minmay wrote:Trog gifts are the same frequency regardless of your skills; your skills simply help determine the type of weapon you get.


If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if I work M&F, Trog will give me maces and flails; so when I need to use a Trog gift weapon for the resists on it, it will be a weapon with which I'm a skilled fighter. That sounds good.

And again if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if I don't work M&F (or some other skill), I'll just get a random distribution of Trog gifts, with axes, polearms, staves, and everything else; and so when I need to use a Trog gift weapon for the resists on it, I'll often be fighting with a weapon that I have no skill in. That doesn't sound so good.

minmay wrote:Regarding resistances and such on weapons, you can wield a weapon without having its skill. You don't need to actually hit things with it to take advantage of +Blink. Similarly, a reasonably durable character can take down a hydra with a war axe of flaming even with no axes skill.


I appreciate that I can use the blink effect without fighting. But if I need the resists to fight something harder than a hydra, I'm also going to have to be able to fight. Just standing there with the resists won't do it. Why wouldn't i want to influence Trog to give me weapons in a skill I can use well?

Snake Sneak

Posts: 107

Joined: Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 03:00

Post Saturday, 9th July 2011, 04:35

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

minmay wrote:if you encountered something sufficiently powerful that you had to swap for resistances, you're probably using the resistances to buy the time to escape.

This seems to expect that there are only two categories: enemies I can defeat without any special resistances, and enemies I have to run away from.

But it seems to me that there would be an obvious third category: an enemy with an attack that I cannot survive without a certain resistance, that I can defeat pretty straightforwardly if I have that resistance. Which might be on a weapon that I could swap in. It seems to me that poison resistance or clarity, or an extra level of rFire, rCold, or Life Protection, can easily make the difference between "I need to escape" and "I can win this fight" -- if I'm able to use the weapon well enough to kill the monster.

As just one simple example: electric eels. At a certain experience level, they are quite dangerous. If you've got 2 of them together in adjacent ponds, then while your berserker is trying to get next to one of them, they zap you 3 or 4 times and you're way down in hp. Unless you have electric resistance, say on some Trog gift mace. Then you comfortably walk over, whack one, whack the other, and you've solved the problem.

Similarly with shadow dragons at the bottom of the Vault, or the elves in the bottom of the Elven Halls. Or Orbs of Fire in Zot. And so on.

I'll take your word for the fact that you've never experienced this. But I report to you that I have fairly commonly swapped in a weapon to get its resist, and therefore been able to withstand the attack of a monster, and therefore defeated it with no particular difficulty.
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Snake Sneak

Posts: 128

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Post Thursday, 14th July 2011, 08:00

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

quick post script to this - you do need something - berserk plus a brother in arms probably in the original case, curare needles and a potion of might probably in this case. This character was a similar unarmed troll, and managed to get an initially 7 headed hydra to half hits, and ten heads by standing toe to toe before dieing. Highest score to date and still improving.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.8.0-178-g5053f60 character file.

19823 RFHolloway the Grappler (level 12, -1/103 (107) HPs)
             Began as a Troll Monk on July 12, 2011.
             Was an Elder of Nemelex Xobeh.
             Slain by a ten-headed hydra (11 damage)
             ... on Level 14 of the Dungeon on July 13, 2011.
             The game lasted 03:20:59 (13108 turns).

RFHolloway the Grappler (Troll Monk)               Turns: 13108, Time: 03:20:59

HP  -1/103 (107) AC 14     Str 22      Exp: 12/26696 (1080), need: 16803
MP   7/7         EV 10     Int 13      God: Nemelex Xobeh [****..]
Gold 1136        SH 17     Dex 12      Spells:  0 memorised, 13 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  W - +2 robe
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    h - +1 dwarf shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    Y - +2 orc wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    K - +3 ring of intelligence
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    p - +5 ring of protection

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2,
saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +1
a: Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Mark Four, Renounce Religion


You were on level 14 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh was extremely pleased with you.
You were full.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 15 of its levels.
You visited 1 portal chamber: bailey.

You collected 1251 gold pieces.
You spent 115 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 J - a +0 blowgun
Missiles
 F - a +0 large rock (quivered)
 O - 8 curare-tipped +0 needles
 X - 5 +0 needles of slowing
Armour
 h - a +1 dwarven shield (worn)
 W - a +2 robe (worn)
 Y - a +2 orcish wizard hat (worn)
Magical devices
 f - a wand of magic darts (16)
 s - a wand of cold (6)
 y - a wand of slowing (22) {unknown}
 z - a wand of confusion (7) {unknown}
 D - a wand of confusion (7) {unknown}
Comestibles
 b - 6 meat rations
 C - 9 bread rations
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of immolation
 i - 9 scrolls of remove curse
 m - a scroll of magic mapping
 t - 4 scrolls of blinking
 u - 2 scrolls of identify
 v - 4 scrolls of detect curse
 T - 3 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 p - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
 B - an uncursed amulet of rage
 I - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 K - a +3 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 N - an uncursed amulet of warding
 U - an uncursed amulet of controlled flight
 Z - an uncursed ring of life protection {unknown}
Potions
 c - a potion of blood {unknown}
 j - 5 potions of healing
 k - a potion of heal wounds
 l - 2 potions of slowing
 n - a potion of resistance {unknown}
 o - 2 potions of agility
 r - a potion of speed
 w - a potion of gain strength {unknown}
 x - a potion of paralysis {unknown}
 E - 2 potions of invisibility {unknown}
 G - 2 potions of restore abilities {unknown}
 R - 3 potions of might
 V - a potion of gain intelligence {unknown}
Books
 a - a book of War Chants   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Fire Brand                         Charms/Fire                  2
   Freezing Aura                      Charms/Ice                   2
   Repel Missiles                     Charms/Air                   2
   Berserker Rage                     Charms                       3
   Regeneration                       Charms/Necromancy            3
   Silence                            Charms/Air                   5
 H - a book of Transfigurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Stoneskin                          Transmutation/Earth          2
   Condensation Shield                Ice/Transmutation            4
   Ice Form                           Ice/Transmutation            4
   Statue Form                        Transmutation/Earth          6
   Dragon Form                        Fire/Transmutation           8
Magical staves
 L - a staff of cold
Miscellaneous
 e - a plain deck of escape {drawn: 1} {god gift}
 q - a plain deck of summonings {drawn: 5} {god gift}
 A - a legendary deck of summonings {god gift}
 M - a plain deck of summonings {god gift}
 P - an ornate deck of destruction {drawn: 4}
 Q - a plain deck of destruction {drawn: 1} {god gift}
 S - an ornate deck of summonings {god gift}


 You had 1080 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 6 Fighting
 + Level 8 Throwing
 + Level 8 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 + Level 14 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Spellcasting


You had 13 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:9
   Lair (0/8) D:9         
  Hive: D:11-16      Vault: D:14-19     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Shops:
D:4: *  D:7: *  D:14: (=*(*


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).


Message History

The ten-headed hydra misses you. The ten-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The ten-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The ten-headed hydra bites you!
You die...
Your body glows slightly and disappears.

░   ░░░░·░ ▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙··░
░   ░····░ ▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙·░
▒   ░····▒▒▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙░
▒░░░░·····∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙░
∙········░░▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙░
▒░░░░····░ ▒∙∙∙(∙D∙F∙∙▒
▒   ░░·░░░ ░░▒F▒░░░░░░░
▒    ░·░     ▒D▒
▒    ░·░     ▒@▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒    ▒∙░    ▒▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒
▒    ▒∙▒    ▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∩∙∙▒
     ▒∙▒    ▒∙▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒∙▒▒▒▒▒▒∙▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒
∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙?▒▒∙∙▒∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒
∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒∙∙▒▒∙∙∙∙%∙∙∙∙▒
∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒∙▒▒▒∙∙∙∩∙∙∙∙∙▒
∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙∙▒ ▒▒∙▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒


You could see a ten-headed hydra (bleeding) and a giant toad.

Vanquished Creatures
  Maud (D:14)
  A centaur warrior (D:14)
  Erolcha (D:10)
  5 hill giants
  A hydra zombie (D:12)
  A dancing weapon (D:11)
  2 cyclopes
  A trapdoor spider zombie (D:12)
  3 weapon mimics
  Psyche (D:12)
  A komodo dragon (D:11)
  2 trolls (D:12)
  Sonja (D:11)
  4 giant toads
  Edmund (D:5)
  A blink frog skeleton (D:11)
  16 yaks
  The ghost of Syc0phant the Cudgeler, an average DSWr of Nemelex Xobeh (D:6)
  3 hippogriffs
  6 centaurs
  2 hungry ghosts
  A soldier ant (D:11)
  The ghost of Rule42 the Chucker, an average KoAs (D:4)
  A manticore (D:11)
  An ice beast (D:10)
  14 orc warriors
  Menkaure (D:6)
  6 ogres
  A gila monster (D:13)
  A boulder beetle zombie (D:14)
  A water moccasin (D:12)
  3 giant frogs
  2 big kobolds
  2 crocodiles (D:11)
  Blork the orc (D:6)
  14 killer bees
  4 wights (D:9)
  2 big kobold zombies (D:11)
  A gila monster zombie (D:11)
  3 imps
  2 quasits
  2 goliath beetles
  A big kobold skeleton (D:11)
  8 orc priests
  A shadow (D:11)
  A hound zombie (D:5)
  2 scorpions
  A worker ant zombie (D:9)
  5 worker ants
  5 hounds
  An iguana (D:9)
  12 orc wizards
  3 jellies
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:12)
  9 gnolls
  20 snakes
  A giant centipede (D:14)
  An iguana skeleton (D:12)
  A scorpion zombie (D:5)
  3 worms
  5 giant geckos
  3 oozes
  57 orcs
  10 giant cockroaches
  37 goblins
  31 hobgoblins
  7 giant newts
  4 jackals
  A jackal skeleton (D:5)
  32 kobolds
  15 megabats
  An orc skeleton (D:10)
  4 quokkas
  26 rats
  4 small snakes
  3 ballistomycetes (D:9)
435 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An orc warrior (D:9)
  A centaur (D:8)
  A wight (D:9)
  A giant mite (D:9)
  An orc (D:9)
  3 hobgoblins (Port)
  A kobold (D:9)
  A quokka (D:8)
10 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A human (D:7)
  An iron imp (Port)
  An orc (D:9)
  A giant spore (D:9)
  3 toadstools
7 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 452 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place   | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | RFHolloway, the Troll Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 0/0
   184 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 17/23 MP: 0/0
   696 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 1/1
  1550 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 38/38 MP: 1/1
  1745 | D:2      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  2020 | D:3      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  2378 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  2384 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 29/46 MP: 1/1
  2786 | D:4      | Found Ezuts' General Store.
  2787 | D:4      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  2972 | D:4      | Noticed Rule42's ghost (average KoAs)
  2991 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 21/53 MP: 2/2
  3000 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  3000 | D:4      | Defeated Rule42's ghost
  3072 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  3206 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3280 | D:5      | Noticed Edmund
  3316 | D:5      | HP: 2/54 [Edmund/runed flail (5)]
  3317 | D:5      | Defeated Edmund
  3317 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 2/62 MP: 2/2
  3321 | D:5      | HP: 2/62 [poisoned by a snake]
  3483 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  3837 | D:6      | Noticed Syc0phant's ghost (average DSWr)
  4181 | D:6      | Defeated Syc0phant's ghost
  4181 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 69/69 MP: 2/2
  4246 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4252 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4355 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4386 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4528 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  4536 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  4537 | D:6      | Defeated Blork the orc
  4561 | D:6      | Noticed Menkaure
  4568 | D:6      | Defeated Menkaure
  4689 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  4702 | D:7      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  4755 | D:7      | Got an ancient helmet
  4922 | D:7      | Found Vaabies' General Store.
  4945 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  4952 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh
  4977 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  4977 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  5205 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5482 | D:7      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5669 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 79/79 MP: 3/3
  5716 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  5905 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  6659 | D:9      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power
  6659 | D:9      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  6807 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  7043 | D:9      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  7078 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  7558 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  7569 | D:10     | Noticed Jozef
  7656 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  7657 | D:10     | Reached XP level 10. HP: 22/87 MP: 2/3
  8152 | D:10     | You fall through a shaft!
  8396 | D:11     | Noticed Sonja
  8408 | D:11     | Noticed a scimitar
  8409 | D:11     | Defeated a hammer
  8421 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
  8424 | D:11     | Defeated Sonja
  8568 | D:11     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  8703 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  9524 | D:11     | Found a frozen archway.
  9598 | D:11     | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
  9607 | D:11     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 65/93 MP: 3/3
  9913 | D:10     | Noticed Erolcha
  9922 | D:10     | Defeated Erolcha
 10404 | D:12     | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power
 10488 | D:12     | Noticed Psyche
 10500 | D:12     | Defeated Psyche
 10815 | D:12     | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
 11412 | D:13     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12059 | D:14     | Found Deomuary's General Store.
 12161 | D:14     | Found Kibaw's Weapon Shop.
 12195 | D:14     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 57/103 MP: 4/4
 12219 | D:14     | Found a flagged portal.
 12233 | bailey   | Entered the bailey
 12427 | bailey   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12555 | bailey   | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power
 12679 | D:14     | Found Phujyuk's Jewellery Shop.
 12750 | D:14     | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat
 12775 | D:14     | Noticed Maud
 12776 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12788 | D:14     | Defeated Maud
 12890 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
 13040 | D:14     | Bought 2 potions of slowing for 3 gold pieces
 13040 | D:14     | Bought a potion of might for 40 gold pieces
 13040 | D:14     | Bought a scroll of fear for 72 gold pieces
 13075 | D:14     | Found Rodep's Assorted Antiques.
 13076 | D:14     | Found Puist's Weapon Boutique.
 13108 | D:14     | Slain by a ten-headed hydra


A troll caster is a hybrid

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Thursday, 14th July 2011, 08:52

Re: XL11 troll berserker vs 4 headed hydra

who said you should attack it unarmed? use a blunt weapon (or a fiery bladed one) and berserk, for example.
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

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