Suggest easy combos


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Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 16:03

Suggest easy combos

Can someone suggest easy combos to come back into the game? including gods? I havent played since a few patches

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 16:11

Re: Suggest easy combos

MiBe or GrBe.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 17:02

Re: Suggest easy combos

Anything that wields axes as a trog worshipper(or just trog worshippers in general).

As for non-Be characters, MuSu of sif is pretty easy once you get channeling online. I like TeIE of vehumet as well. Merfolk of gladiator(or anything really) of fedhas makes for a fairly easy game.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 17:08

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:As for non-Be characters, MuSu of sif is pretty easy once you get channeling online.


Are you seriously suggesting a mummy as an easy combo, or is just some weird hallucination?

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 17:37

Re: Suggest easy combos

If you like casters: DrFE, GrEE

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Tiktacy

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:19

Re: Suggest easy combos

DEEE. Not so much forgiving as uniformly unforgiving, which is (at least for me) even better.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:22

Re: Suggest easy combos

Magipi wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:As for non-Be characters, MuSu of sif is pretty easy once you get channeling online.


Are you seriously suggesting a mummy as an easy combo, or is just some weird hallucination?


I wasn't sure what level the OP was at, and MuSu of sif is an extremely easy combo for newer players to learn to manage their spell schools. I did suggest several alternatives, mind you.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:32

Re: Suggest easy combos

TrWr^pak is the most recent easy combo I played.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:35

Re: Suggest easy combos

Of the combos suggested here:
MfGl and DrFE are good, but certainly not in the top20 (those are all berserkers and various DDs probably)
GrEE is okay, but there are quite a few better gargoyles than that.
TeIE of Vehumet? Wtf? IE of good, but this is not one of the best ones.
DEEE? This is simply bad.
MuSu might be one of the best mummies, but it is still horrible, this must be a bad joke.

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:35

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:
Magipi wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:As for non-Be characters, MuSu of sif is pretty easy once you get channeling online.


Are you seriously suggesting a mummy as an easy combo, or is just some weird hallucination?


I wasn't sure what level the OP was at, and MuSu of sif is an extremely easy combo for newer players to learn to manage their spell schools. I did suggest several alternatives, mind you.

I guess the question is does "easy" in this context mean without much danger, or with clearer decisions ( uncomplicated or unchallenging )
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 18:59

Re: Suggest easy combos

I struggle to imagine whats wrong with tengu ice elementalists being considered an easy combo, they have above average aptitudes for spells and very good aptitude/adaptability for weapon choice. Even their Exp is above average.

MuSu^sif I can understand, but I will still defend as being a very easy combo for newer(or even somewhat experienced) players.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 19:04

Re: Suggest easy combos

The bad thing with TeIE is the "Te" part. Low HP. Not hard to figure out.

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 19:07

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:I struggle to imagine whats wrong with tengu ice elementalists being considered an easy combo, they have above average aptitudes for spells and very good aptitude/adaptability for weapon choice. Even their Exp is above average.

MuSu^sif I can understand, but I will still defend as being a very easy combo for newer(or even somewhat experienced) players.

There are about 600 combinations in crawl. When somebody asks for easy combos, he certainly means something that's in the top few.

When you name TeIE, which is probably just in the top100 (and possibly out of it), that is a questionable advice.

When you name MuSu, which is probably closer to 500 than to 400, that is totally ridiculous.

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 19:38

Re: Suggest easy combos

HOBe or HOGl or HOFi with axes.
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Blades Runner

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 21:11

Re: Suggest easy combos

Mummies are solid very early game. Good hit points and rpoison!

If you're having trouble clearing D:1 and D:2, mummies are a good choice.

(But if you want to play an easy caster play a spriggan.)
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 21:55

Re: Suggest easy combos

If you want to play an easy caster play DrIE or HOFE.
DCSS: 82: ...{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMo
HuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE
{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe
Bloat: 7: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}{KiPa

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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 22:25

Re: Suggest easy combos

MfBe, because min delay bardiches at the end of lair are fun.
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Post Saturday, 4th June 2016, 23:01

Re: Suggest easy combos

What is it with people overvaluing rPois? It hardly does anything useful, especially with all the !curing around.
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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 03:21

Re: Suggest easy combos

All DD, Mi, Tr, Gr, VS, all living non-formicid Berserkers, SpEn, CeHu, DE/HE/Te pure mages provided they don't have an extremely bad aptitude in your school of choice
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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 05:18

Re: Suggest easy combos

Magipi wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:I struggle to imagine whats wrong with tengu ice elementalists being considered an easy combo, they have above average aptitudes for spells and very good aptitude/adaptability for weapon choice. Even their Exp is above average.

MuSu^sif I can understand, but I will still defend as being a very easy combo for newer(or even somewhat experienced) players.

There are about 600 combinations in crawl. When somebody asks for easy combos, he certainly means something that's in the top few.

When you name TeIE, which is probably just in the top100 (and possibly out of it), that is a questionable advice.

When you name MuSu, which is probably closer to 500 than to 400, that is totally ridiculous.


I think you are missing the point. He asked for easy combos, not the easiest combos.

The top 100 is likely extremely similar in terms of classes and combinations, riddled with Berserkers and Deep Dwarves among other things. That probably isn't what the OP was asking for.

The term "easy" has a few different meanings and I tried to give an answer for each of those meanings or mixtures of meanings.

MuSu^Sif in my experience is nice because you can ignore one of the most tedious parts of the game: Food, and that makes the game easier to play imo. I don't practice any of the more tedious features mummys have to offer due to their lack of a food clock, I just hate eating chunks and carrying food(inventory management is certainly much easier as a mummy too), so maybe I was wrong to assume the OP treats them similarly.

TeIE^Vehumet uses arguably the best mage book on a species with good aptitudes for it. I mean, are there better IE? Probably, but again, the OP asked for easy combos, not the EASIEST combos.

I really don't understand why people are responding so negatively, clearly the answer to the OP in the strictest definition of "easiest combo" is a Berserker or some kind(probably Minotaur). I just wanted to try at look at it from a different perspective and give the best answer I could.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 05:38

Re: Suggest easy combos

It's pretty easy to win 3-rune games using Chei with any combo.

Octopod Assassin is pretty neat to me. *edit* with an Axe.
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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 05:43

Re: Suggest easy combos

It's even easier without Chei.

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 06:10

Re: Suggest easy combos

I don't know. I usually find my self destroying depth level monsters at 4* piety around skill level 13 with any two-hander.

Sure they walk slow, so it takes forever.

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 06:16

Re: Suggest easy combos

What Chei does to you at 4*: you have something like +10 Str and Dex and that slowness ability and uh, Slouch I guess, but you mentioned a two-hander.

Slowness ability is good but it's like reverse-haste essentially. The damage bonus from 10 Str is a thing, but, say, Okawaru's Heroism damage bonus would be more significant. Dex gives bonus to accuracy (again, Hero is better) and EV (I dunno if Hero is better, but it's comparable).

Okawaru does not prohibit Haste or make you slow so

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 17:51

Re: Suggest easy combos

I'm not sure about the exact math but I'd wager that at a full +15 stats, that's worth more damage/accuracy than heroism is. For the record, I'm assuming that you already have your weapon at min delay, because if you're taking a weapon from .75 speed to .5 speed (assuming the best case scenario with a quick weapon) then that's a huge increase. But if the weapon's not getting faster, I'd say chei's a lot more damage/accuracy.

I'll certainly concede that heroism is helpful a lot earlier on, as it kicks in at 1* and at that point you probably aren't at min delay, but by the time 5/6* rolls around, heroism probably isn't giving you much of a speed increase anymore, unless you have bad weapon aptitudes.

Back on topic! Why does no one ever recommend ranged backgrounds? That tedious? Anyways if you're willing to put up with some kiting, play a Centaur. Hunter or any of the warrior backgrounds (Gl is probably best). Early on you can be a bit low on ammo but you should have plenty of arrows by killing monster centaurs by around d:8 or so. Train a melee weapon a little bit as well, then focus bows. Longbows are much better than shortbows once you can find one. Trog or Okawaru are probably your standard god choices, if you do go trog be careful not to berserk with your bow equipped.

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 18:06

Re: Suggest easy combos

tasonir wrote:I'm not sure about the exact math but I'd wager that at a full +15 stats, that's worth more damage/accuracy than heroism is. For the record, I'm assuming that you already have your weapon at min delay, because if you're taking a weapon from .75 speed to .5 speed (assuming the best case scenario with a quick weapon) then that's a huge increase. But if the weapon's not getting faster, I'd say chei's a lot more damage/accuracy.

I'll certainly concede that heroism is helpful a lot earlier on, as it kicks in at 1* and at that point you probably aren't at min delay, but by the time 5/6* rolls around, heroism probably isn't giving you much of a speed increase anymore, unless you have bad weapon aptitudes.
Yeah, this is a really compelling argument if you completely ignore that haste and finesse exist, and you train your skills 5 levels higher than you should with heroism...

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 18:08

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:
Magipi wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:I struggle to imagine whats wrong with tengu ice elementalists being considered an easy combo, they have above average aptitudes for spells and very good aptitude/adaptability for weapon choice. Even their Exp is above average.

MuSu^sif I can understand, but I will still defend as being a very easy combo for newer(or even somewhat experienced) players.

There are about 600 combinations in crawl. When somebody asks for easy combos, he certainly means something that's in the top few.

When you name TeIE, which is probably just in the top100 (and possibly out of it), that is a questionable advice.

When you name MuSu, which is probably closer to 500 than to 400, that is totally ridiculous.


I think you are missing the point. He asked for easy combos, not the easiest combos.

The top 100 is likely extremely similar in terms of classes and combinations, riddled with Berserkers and Deep Dwarves among other things. That probably isn't what the OP was asking for.

The term "easy" has a few different meanings and I tried to give an answer for each of those meanings or mixtures of meanings.

MuSu^Sif in my experience is nice because you can ignore one of the most tedious parts of the game: Food, and that makes the game easier to play imo. I don't practice any of the more tedious features mummys have to offer due to their lack of a food clock, I just hate eating chunks and carrying food(inventory management is certainly much easier as a mummy too), so maybe I was wrong to assume the OP treats them similarly.

TeIE^Vehumet uses arguably the best mage book on a species with good aptitudes for it. I mean, are there better IE? Probably, but again, the OP asked for easy combos, not the EASIEST combos.

I really don't understand why people are responding so negatively, clearly the answer to the OP in the strictest definition of "easiest combo" is a Berserker or some kind(probably Minotaur). I just wanted to try at look at it from a different perspective and give the best answer I could.
Sure, every combo is easy because crawl is easy. But you can infer from the context of the original post that they aren't asking "Recommend any combo in the game". So let's not recommend the worst combos in the game like mummies and nagas, okay?

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 21:48

Re: Suggest easy combos

I'd say any Ce that doesn't start with a book is relatively easy. Being faster than most things in the game is rather strong. Just be sure to run gallop away liberally.

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Post Sunday, 5th June 2016, 21:55

Re: Suggest easy combos

Ce that does start with a book is even better

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 04:47

Re: Suggest easy combos

A stabber Naga seems quite easy at the start.

I think back grounds that give tools to deal with early threats like Ogres, Trolls, Hill Giants, Cyclops from the start are nice. Assassin, Enchanter, Summoner, Poison, Conjuration, etc.

Anyone finding yaks being difficult lately before you hit mid lair?
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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 04:54

Re: Suggest easy combos

There is nothing easy about nagas and I never said there was anything easy about nagas.
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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 05:09

Re: Suggest easy combos

I find mummies to have very easy-going gameplay. Mummy's overall are probably the hardest race in the game to win with, but easy wins aren't always what people are asking for. Sometimes just being able to zz-enter most of lair and never having to worry about cleaning out your inventory or cutting up every enemy for chunks is exactly what I'm looking for when I think of "easy combos."

But again, there are lots of ways to define "easy combos" and I tried to give a variety. I guess people are just mad because they think I'm spreading false information to newer players by making them believe mummies are somehow good, and I suppose that was my fault for not making more sense of it from the beginning.
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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 05:27

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:Mummy's overall are probably the hardest race in the game to win with, but easy wins aren't always what people are asking for.
the OP literally did ask for easy combos

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 07:18

Re: Suggest easy combos

Crawl is easy enough that the strong combos should be almost a guaranteed win with careful play. As rule of thumb, if you're recommending a combo but you have to temper that recommendation with a caveat like "once you get X spell", or "once you get to lair", or "once you get X god with Y piety", then it's not actually strong.

That said I found FeVM^kiku to be super strong once I was back on D1 with the orb and 3 lives in hand.

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 09:41

Re: Suggest easy combos

If you are contorting the concept of 'easy combo' enough to qualify mummies, you are well into 'words mean what I say they mean' territory. Mummies are far enough away from conventional definitions of 'easy' that such a recommendation parses as malicious.

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 15:52

Re: Suggest easy combos

Lesson learned, tavern hates mummies.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 16:13

Re: Suggest easy combos

I think mummies are disliked is because part of the strategy using them can involve staying on floors for an extremely long time. Which is kinda OP.

I think the idea is to use racial attributes to augment something from a class choice, adapt to anything good given to you by the game, and have something on hand for what your build is weak against. And, hex wands tend to take care of most of those. So do blowguns.

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 16:24

Re: Suggest easy combos

I think the main reason people don't like mummies is because they're objectively terrible in comparison to almost everything else. You can mitigate some of their terribleness with extremely tedious play and/or lucky loot, but on average at most points in the game you're less powerful and more vulnerable than you would be if you'd chosen any other race.

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 16:25

Re: Suggest easy combos

you know minmay/duvessa is a greatermummy (won all the mummy combos) right

thinking something is weak in context of Crawl doesn't equal to "hating" it

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 21:04

Re: Suggest easy combos

Tiktacy wrote:Lesson learned, tavern hates mummies.

First rule of hole-digging: don't stop digging. There's got to be something down there!

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 21:10

Re: Suggest easy combos

Sar wrote:you know minmay/duvessa is a greatermummy (won all the mummy combos) right

thinking something is weak in context of Crawl doesn't equal to "hating" it

You mean it's possible to win all mummy combos and still not hate mummies?
DCSS: 82: ...{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMo
HuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE
{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe
Bloat: 7: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}{KiPa

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Post Monday, 6th June 2016, 21:24

Re: Suggest easy combos

Back to the OP: DrIE is good. Starting book ruins everything through Lair easily. Freeze and ozo's and ice beasts are awesome and throw icicle is great and you also have HP and get AC for free and you get breath attacks.

Plus, turning a color is fun, and generally useful.
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Post Tuesday, 7th June 2016, 15:51

Re: Suggest easy combos

I think all the good advice has already been given, but I'm gonna expand on some of it for emphasis. Strong combos almost always mean a strong species and a strong-to-fine background. Strong species are mostly the ones with high HP and/or fast movement speed; weak species are mostly the ones with low hp, slow movement speed, and/or severely compromised defenses. Exception: VS and Gr are pretty strong despite having low HP; VS because it secretly has a ton more HP than it looks like and can self-heal constantly while applying anti-magic, and Gr because it has huge AC, which partially compensates lack of HP.

Strong backgrounds are, very roughly, (Be|IE) > most backgrounds with a book or god > Ar > the rest . That mostly holds true regardless of species. Backgrounds are less important than species because 1) species controls more important attributes than background, and 2) background sets up the first few levels of the game, but species you're stuck with forever.

To everyone taking this thread off-track, imagine someone asked you which food has the least calories. A helpful response might be to list some low-calorie foods, or perhaps to go orthogonal with something like explaining why calories aren't a very useful food metric. Telling the person "donuts taste great" or "I suggest butter because some foods have more calories than butter" is not helpful.

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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 18:16

Re: Suggest easy combos

Mummy used to make sense in the old Crawl, years past, when running out of food was a bigger problem than not having enough experience. Today they're trash because the game has changed. Same problem with Dg, minus the food, due to gods being more important and powerful. To fix these species they have to change with the times - that is to say, less slow experience gain and less bad skills. For mummy not being able to drink is already enough of a draw back. Same for Dg with no god. In fact they should have more of an advantage for having no god than they do now.

Just look at Gargoyles and Vine Stalkers for examples of today's "balance." Both species have solid skill and experience gain, AND advantages that deal effectively with their disadvantages. By contrast Dg and Mummy both have huge disadvantages, but not enough advantages to make up for it and they have poor skill and experience gain on top of it. That's what makes them bad.

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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 18:29

Re: Suggest easy combos

As a noob I say go Orc Beserker for 3 runes. Melee is exponentially easier than spell casting. Not to mention trog lets you go beserk and gives you brothers in arms which will destroy anything early game. Also antimagic brand which is hilariously helpful late game for powerful things. Any suggestion to play a spell casting character should not be taken seriously as an "easy character". Melee you are a endless tab machine.

Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Sunday, 28th June 2015, 14:44

Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 18:45

Re: Suggest easy combos

115811 wrote:Melee is exponentially easier than spell casting.

Correction: Trog is exponentially easier than anything else.

Anyone who tells you that, for example, MfGl is easier than MfIE is crazy.

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Sandman25

Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Sunday, 15th May 2016, 05:20

Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 19:02

Re: Suggest easy combos

I have the most success with IE as far as book starts but I still assert spell casting and dealing with summons requires more strategy. Noobs like me think they have to go pure caster. Its very difficult to go pure caster and its very difficult know when to branch out and get a weapon or something. Not mention you are significantly more squishy and you have to retreat and rest all the time. I would suggest fighters, but they could totally suck and I may be obsessed with melee. Orc fighters are pretty good because they use axes +3 which comes in handy when you make the noobish mistake of getting surrounded or decided to take on the entire yak pack hur hur hur.

As far as gods I like the shining one. He really comes in handy late game. With Angels, Cleansing Flame, and Holy Brand for hell. Three run I would say Gozag? maybes? He has some nice panic buttons when you do take on the entire yak pack. Though i haven't played enough gods to know

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Saturday, 12th December 2015, 23:54

Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 19:27

Re: Suggest easy combos

Just chiming in to say that demigods aren't weak and don't need fixing. To keep this on topic, DgIE or another elementalist start is pretty easy if you know how to use the book at all.

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Arrhythmia, duvessa, Lasty, nago, Sar

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 19:34

Re: Suggest easy combos

Hellmonk wrote:Just chiming in to say that demigods aren't weak and don't need fixing. To keep this on topic, DgIE or another elementalist start is pretty easy if you know how to use the book at all.


If anything, I believe it is powerful species who should be "fixed". Crawl does not provide difficulty levels for some weird reason so players who want challenge are forced to become speedrunners, greatermummies, greateroctopodes and "greaterchaosknights" because there are many powerful species but only a few weak ones.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 300

Joined: Thursday, 1st May 2014, 13:13

Post Wednesday, 15th June 2016, 19:58

Re: Suggest easy combos

Crawl's species, backgrounds, and gods are its difficulty levels. Devs have said they have no interest in balancing them with one another.

Sidenote: This is also why having altars appear on different levels is a bad idea. A difficulty-level choice shouldn't be a strategic choice.
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